Htobs really last awhile.... I would never replace one without checking everything either as there are 4 different htobs that are commonly used in f23s.
Htobs really last awhile.... I would never replace one without checking everything either as there are 4 different htobs that are commonly used in f23s.
I am hoping its just a defective part. I dont know why it would be anything to the contrary. The previous clutch worked great as you are aware from our tuning session. It did not use a HTOB spacer. I was told I needed the spacer with the SCS pressure plate (extra clamp). Nothing else changed. So either the part is defective or the spacer caused the HTOB to bottom out and it popped a seal is my best guess. Or it could have been damaged when SPEC installed the spacer. I just dont know yet. I am going to bolt the old PP to the flywheel and measure the installed height and compare it to the SCS PP. If they are the same, I will just put the old HTOB back in and call it a day.
I just have rotten luck with this car. it seems anytime I try to do the "right thing", it bites me in the ass. With that said, I will not give up. I know I will prove more stubborn than that inanimate object!
Throw the old pressure plate away (figurtively), it wont tell you anything in regards to how your current one is setup. Just seperate the trans off and measure it.
The pressure plate fingers will be at their most compressed when first installed so it should be nearly the same measurement from fingers to block and bell housing to bearing.
Throw the old pressure plate away (figurtively), it wont tell you anything in regards to how your current one is setup. Just seperate the trans off and measure it.
The pressure plate fingers will be at their most compressed when first installed so it should be nearly the same measurement from fingers to block and bell housing to bearing.
I found a thread on how to measure to get the exact range. I just need to calm down a bit before taking it back apart. Oh well, there are a few more things I wanted to "fix". lol
For what it's worth, I used the spacer with the same clutch you have. The measurement I found in another thread said to shoot for 2.5" from the clutch fingers to the bell housing surface. The clutch doesn't need a lot of travel to release so I have an over travel issue. I shortened Rodney's adjustable pushrod all the way and it's still not enough. I just don't push the clutch to the floor or it will re-engage. Something to look out for.
Got it all back apart. The HTOB did not over extend. I am not sure if it was defective or damaged when SPEC installed the spacer. It wasn't even on straight. :/ Should be back up and running by the weekend.
Thats all it was. The new HTOB was either defective or it had been damaged by SPEC when they pressed on the HTOB spacer. BTW, I am not using a spacer this time. I can tell you the "super clamp" pressure plate, its definitely got a much harder pedal.
Drove the 88 for the first time in nearly 5 months. Went fairly well. 1 small oil leak at the oil pressure sensor. It was finger tight. Ooops! p0134 & P0717 codes. Forgot to plug in the 2nd o2 sensor. Not sure about the 0717 speed sensor code as the speedo works. So thats a new one. Its really rich and stumbles at 3500rpm like it did when I first got it. DH and I are gonna do another tune after I do a nut & bolt check and get it aligned again. Definetly can tell its not right after replacing all the bushings. Clutch... still isnt right. I had to space the MC away from the firewall to keep it from rattling when running with the clutch in. Its a band-aid but I am gonna drive it for a few weeks to try and and enjoy it again before ripping it back apart. OH yeah, and the Tial BOV is staying open at idle. So I got to get a stiffer spring for that as well.
[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 01-26-2014).]
For sure Scott. I am poking around and checking things out. The o2 prob had a lot to do about it like we spoke about on the phone. I cant think of anything that physically changed that would effect the tune. But then, stranger things have happend. if you remember, this is the same problem I had when I fist got it. The 3,500 rpm stumble.
Fixed a few more little stupid problems. I don't want to say what they were, but they were totally on me. Car runs MUCH better. I still have more valvetrain noise than I think it should have. I am gonna check the pushrod length just to be sure. Got a package for a few more little things that need to be sorted today. Mostly ebrake related. I may even make Daytona this year... MAYBE.
I don't want to say what they were, but they were totally on me.
Try to put a bit more care into checking your vital signs before seeing how well it runs at full boost. The margin for error on big horsepower non factory setups like this is still fairly large, but you do not have nearly the failsafes you would in a 100% factory configuration.
I spoke with Steve @ ZZP the other day. We were going over the order Whodumbass made for parts. There was no record of what lifters Dean used with the ST1 (yep, its an ST1 not ST2) cam. He said if I have stock lifters I should be OK. If dean used COMP's there could be a problem with the lash difference. Apparently COMP uses a smaller base circle. The valvetrain is too noisy IMO. So I would rather buy a $15 PR length checker and know for sure. Stock PR, unknown lifters, ST1 cam, milled heads? Stock rockers, ZZP retainers, LS7 "yellow" springs etc. Much mix and match going on.
Hand on heart, I have never had a car so problematic in my life. I'll never farm out work again.
I spoke with Steve @ ZZP the other day. We were going over the order Whodumbass made for parts. There was no record of what lifters Dean used with the ST1 (yep, its an ST1 not ST2) cam. He said if I have stock lifters I should be OK. If dean used COMP's there could be a problem with the lash difference. Apparently COMP uses a smaller base circle. The valvetrain is too noisy IMO. So I would rather buy a $15 PR length checker and know for sure. Stock PR, unknown lifters, ST1 cam, milled heads? Stock rockers, ZZP retainers, LS7 "yellow" springs etc. Much mix and match going on.
Hand on heart, I have never had a car so problematic in my life. I'll never farm out work again.
Even if you have an OER lifter... You are not going to run into any sigificant problems. The OE non R lifters are ticky and noisy just because thats how it goes... You may also have an exhaust leak tick.
Even if you check lengths on things... You are not going to get any consistant readings across all 12 lifters enough to do any more than suggest a better pushrod length.
thirdly... with everything stock, you are probably looking at a possibly slightly too long pushrod, with a comp lifter you are looking at a possibly slightly too short pushrod... so the variance is going to equal out somewhere in the middle of slightly long or slightly short.... which is a good thing.
Even if you have an OER lifter... You are not going to run into any sigificant problems. The OE non R lifters are ticky and noisy just because thats how it goes... You may also have an exhaust leak tick.
Even if you check lengths on things... You are not going to get any consistant readings across all 12 lifters enough to do any more than suggest a better pushrod length.
thirdly... with everything stock, you are probably looking at a possibly slightly too long pushrod, with a comp lifter you are looking at a possibly slightly too short pushrod... so the variance is going to equal out somewhere in the middle of slightly long or slightly short.... which is a good thing.
Lets hope you are right. There is way too much valvetrain noise though. This one is way louder than any of my previous 3800's. The exhaust leak thing has crossed my mind a few times. I havent found any..yet but I haven't really looked that hard. I have mostly just checked the vbands like we spoke about on the phone.
PR checker arrived today. I'll report my findings tomorrow.
Turbo has been rebuilt and is on its way back. My flywheel is way too thick and thats what is causing all my clutch problems. I have that off and will drop it off to get machined. Once that is done, I need to decide if I am gonna swap the cam or not. Slow but steady.
Its always better to have too much flywheel height. Justin started running the .840 to allow for later resurfaces and to help the slave cyl / HTOB be happier.
Engine is on the engine stand, car is in a million pieces. I have a new trans ordered that Scott (DH) located for me. Found a broken valve spring. Odd, since they are brand new LS7 springs. Making some new fuel lines right now. I never liked the old ones.
I am almost done putting Garths LQ1 swapped Fiero. Its got to go to the exhaust shop, alignment shop and I have to install some fuel lines. I'll be hauling it to Virginia on the 9th of July. When I get back, I'll get back to work on my 88. AFTER, I clean and organize my nasty garage.
New cam, 130# springs, retainers, locks, seals, double roller, LS7 lifters, gaskets, 60# injectors (all from Intense Racing) and replacement F23 were ordered yesterday. I have to pull the heads and have the spring pockets machined 60 thousands for the new springs. I also got a CC pushrod length checker as well. Pretty much positive I will need custom length PR's. I also have to weld in a 2" flex joint into the crossover pipe.
Goal is to be up and running by Oct 1st. Set back and watch as I roll the dice, one more, one last time.
With that said, I will not give up. I know I will prove more stubborn than that inanimate object! 
