10-3-12 - Started my build thread. At first I was not sure what I was going to do with this car, and for a long time it just sat in my driveway. Anyway, this thread is now my build thread. I have not modified it so it starts out slow, but I didn't want to create a new thread, so I am just going to use this one. I will continue to update this thread from time to time.
4-22-12 - Picked up a rough 88 GT yesterday. Could not beat the price. The car left the factory as a fully loaded black GT w/ beechwood interior. Now it has an 87 GT gray interior (most of it), and is missing a few of the factory options. It was being used as a parts car by the last owner to fix up his 87 GT. So it is missing a few things, but I have most of the stuff I need to put it back together. Using some of the parts I have hoarded over the years is finally going to pay off.
Since these photos, she got a complete clean both inside and out. I fixed a small "dime" size rust hole in the trunk, and replaced anything that was broken or missing with what I have in my "parts bin". Rims are off the same 87 GT that got the interior. The only part of the beechwood the PO did not remove was the beechwood subwoofer control, so its still in place. I connected a battery to the car to move the windows up/down and tried the stereo and the factory sub still works. Two speakers were blown or not connected.
I have all the motor parts to put it back together, but from the looks of the cylinder walls, I may just junk the block and sell the intake parts. I'm calling the fix-up "project cheap-skate", i'm going to try to use all the extra parts I have in the garage, and anything yet to be replaced off my 88 coupe. I will need some things I don't have but that's where I hope to barter / swap with folks for things. Anyway, i'm super excited about my new project and wanted to share with my Fiero Friends.
Rob
[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 09-18-2015).]
well in keeping with the "cheap" theme, I have a line on a rebuilt 88 2.8L that I can have for free, all i need to do is help pull it.
As for the motor in the car, other than having the intake/heads pulled apart, its all there. The 5 speed is still connected and has fluid, the exhaust is still connected up, all the wiring is in place, just disconnected. The A/C and Alt are still connected with the belts on.
But if I was to swap the motor, I may just drop in a 3800 non SC motor. They are a dime a dozen up at Pick n Pull, dirt cheap and 200hp is good enough for a daily driver. I'd just pull he lowest mileage/best looking/cleanest one.
Cool project! If you really wanted "cheap", then just another 2.8 would be best, as even an 3800 N/A swap isn't exactly cheap, having to make an exhaust, fuel lines, wiring, mounts, etc. A 3800 N/A is definitely not slow though with a 5-speed (might seem that way compared to an LS3, but still), and has lots of room in the engine bay, so it's easy to reach/work on things. (hope you don't mind me posting a picture of my swap here)
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 04-22-2012).]
Cool project! If you really wanted "cheap", then just another 2.8 would be best, as even an 3800 N/A swap isn't exactly cheap, having to make an exhaust, fuel lines, wiring, mounts, etc. A 3800 N/A is definitely not slow though with a 5-speed (might seem that way compared to an LS3, but still), and has lots of room in the engine bay, so it's easy to reach/work on things. (hope you don't mind me posting a picture of my swap here)
Heck no, I love pics. The more the better. And, yea I realize that it may not cost that much less to do a SC motor. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. If I do swap out for a bigger motor, I won't have to spend the big bucks on it, and my goal will to make it look factory. This is not going to be a show car, i want to make it a daily driver.
[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 04-22-2012).]
Hehe so the green car will be repainted then? Looking forward to seeing what these cars look like when finished. My vote is for a 3800 turbo of course but hey that's just me. Good luck either way and again congrats on the new acquisition. Peace
Originally posted by qwikgta: Thanks. no green on this one. I have two colors that im thinking about doing the green one in, so now I can do both colors and not have to chose.
But you have to decide which one gets which color. Which one's getting the Creamsicle Orange?
Heck no, I love pics. The more the better. And, yea I realize that it may not cost that much less to do a SC motor. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. If I do swap out for a bigger motor, I won't have to spend the big bucks on it, and my goal will to make it look factory. This is not going to be a show car, i want to make it a daily driver.
Trust me, that pictured swap of mine is no show car either. If you want to see more pictures, you can look at my 3800/F23 thread if it peaks your interest.
quote
Originally posted by qwikgta:
DON'T EVEN ASK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And this is one reason why I'm not getting married.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 04-22-2012).]
What shape is that maplight slider in? I have a nice gray one that I would trade you straight up for.....assuming yours is in nice shape and the slider works, etc. LMK.
well it didn't take too long to decide to swap the motor. I ditched the idea of fixing the 2.8 and went out and bought a 2004 3800/auto trans and started the swap this last weekend.
always nice getting an 88 GT.. bought my cheap as dirt got it running and got about 600 miles out of it before the clutch went a couple weeks ago.. I want to try my hand at some kind of swap for it.. just dont know what..
Looking forward to watching this one. I may do the same on my DD in the future.
Is this going to take as long as your DOHC swap?
No, whole point of this one is to make it a DD. No frills, just function. I learned what not to do on the DOHC swap. Plus, my home owners ass, has already given me my first warning. get it running and stop working on it in the driveway.
Started the harness. Stripped down the harness and seperated each wire. WOW what a chore. Now I have to put it all back together again. First I have to get the motor back together, intake, injectors, exahust mani's etc.....
Cool thread... I too joined the club about a month ago. My joining wasnt nearly as cheap as yours though. :P Im interested in seeing this swap. It is NA right?
well, I started an excel spreadsheet to keep track of cost. It adds up fast. The motor/trans was $400 from the local pick n pull, and the motor/trans mounts were another $400 from WCF. I had to buy a new lower intake mani, that was $300 bucks. Also, the Pick n Pull guys put a hole in the oil pan and trans pan to drain the fluid, so I had to cough up another $100 for them. I have decided to replace most of the sensors (MAP, MAF, IAC... ) and had to buy a "gasket set" for the UIM, LIM, Rocker covers........ so i have a little over $2000 in in now.
I use the term "Cheap" but its all relative. I spent $6500 to buy my LS376, so if I can come in under $5000 ill be happy.
Cool thread... I too joined the club about a month ago. My joining wasnt nearly as cheap as yours though. :P Im interested in seeing this swap. It is NA right?
Yes, 2004 NA. No perf mods this time around. I was going to buy a ZZP power log for the rear exhaust mani, but decided to pass for now. My goal is to get it all together and running, then i'll think about mod'ing it.
well, I started an excel spreadsheet to keep track of cost. It adds up fast. The motor/trans was $400 from the local pick n pull, and the motor/trans mounts were another $400 from WCF. I had to buy a new lower intake mani, that was $300 bucks. Also, the Pick n Pull guys put a hole in the oil pan and trans pan to drain the fluid, so I had to cough up another $100 for them. I have decided to replace most of the sensors (MAP, MAF, IAC... ) and had to buy a "gasket set" for the UIM, LIM, Rocker covers........ so i have a little over $2000 in in now.
I use the term "Cheap" but its all relative. I spent $6500 to buy my LS376, so if I can come in under $5000 ill be happy.
Rob
Well when your done let me know the difference between the two. Performance wise and price wise... (Not your total cost just a comparison to your happiness).
Originally posted by GADJet: Well when your done let me know the difference between the two. Performance wise and price wise... (Not your total cost just a comparison to your happiness).
Well, to be honest, the two will be totally different cars. The LS376 is a 500hp, manual trans, car with full suspension/brake mods and the 3800 is going to be a 200hp, automatic, driver with stock suspension/brakes. I am going to upgrade the 3800 with the parts off my LS car (lower springs front, coil overs rear, 12" corvette rotors) but the goal of the 3800 is something I can drive in the rain, snow and if I make a run to the store, I won't' "care" if it gets a door ding (yes, i'll still care but you get the point).
Now, if I do upgrade the 3800 to a turbo/SC then I could give you more info,
If your asking which swap would I recommend, I'd have to tell you to go with the 3800 SC swap. Its way cheaper, way easier, and something you can do in your garage with standard tools (plus a huge helping hand from the forum). Don't get me wrong, I love my LS swap, but it cost me a crap ton of money.
I did a 3.4 DOHC swap a few years ago, it was my first "Fiero" engine swap. The "swap" part was done in a few weeks, but getting all the bugs worked out took me years. Now, at the time I was in the Navy and I made 4 deployments in that time, and, I lost interest in it several times. In the end, a set of crappy injectors were to blame for most of my heartache.
Well, to be honest, the two will be totally different cars. The LS376 is a 500hp, manual trans, car with full suspension/brake mods and the 3800 is going to be a 200hp, automatic, driver with stock suspension/brakes. I am going to upgrade the 3800 with the parts off my LS car (lower springs front, coil overs rear, 12" corvette rotors) but the goal of the 3800 is something I can drive in the rain, snow and if I make a run to the store, I won't' "care" if it gets a door ding (yes, i'll still care but you get the point).
Now, if I do upgrade the 3800 to a turbo/SC then I could give you more info,
If your asking which swap would I recommend, I'd have to tell you to go with the 3800 SC swap. Its way cheaper, way easier, and something you can do in your garage with standard tools (plus a huge helping hand from the forum). Don't get me wrong, I love my LS swap, but it cost me a crap ton of money.
I did a 3.4 DOHC swap a few years ago, it was my first "Fiero" engine swap. The "swap" part was done in a few weeks, but getting all the bugs worked out took me years. Now, at the time I was in the Navy and I made 4 deployments in that time, and, I lost interest in it several times. In the end, a set of crappy injectors were to blame for most of my heartache.
well, got some work done on the swap today Got a box of parts in on Friday, and also got back my exhaust mani's all ceramic coated. Put on the last bits and now I can start the harness.
made up a rig to put the hole in the firewall in the right spot. This rig will help me run all the wires and I hope it will help in making the harness the correct length.
Also started cleaning the engine bay. I removed all the insolation, and all the crap I wont need for the swap. Lots of the rubber was dryrotted, but the good news is 99.99 free of rust.
I hope to work on the harness this week, but I may not get to it until next weekend.
Cheers
[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 10-21-2012).]
went by the local pick n pull yesterday. Down one isle I hit the jackpot. Found 5, 3800 cars within about 15 feet of each other. three were NA and two were 3800SC cars. one was a 2003 SC (Grand Prix) so I pulled the TB, fuel rail, ECM and picked up a OBDII port. I didn't know I needed one of them until I read about one in another thread. Picked up a few odds and ends. Pulled the leather shift lever/boot off the 2003 it was in the best shape.
The sad thing was that the other SC car was a 1998 Daytona Pace Car Grand Prix. It was in perfect shape, two door, blue, leather interior. Only 169K on the motor and like I said, it was not dented or damaged in any way. I'd have given the owner $500 bucks for it, which is more than he got from PnP.
Power washed the engine bay, it cleaned up nice, and now I can POR 15 it and make it ready for the engine. No work on the hanress, however, I have been reading more threads and have a few more ideas.
OK, update time. I finished building the main engine harness and was starting to work on the CC harness when I realized that I didn’t have the “AR” servo, I had a “UV” instead. Not wanting any issues I went to the yard to find an AR. I figured it would be easy, but after an hour I finally found one on the second to last car, in the last row of GM. Go figure. Pulled it off and got started on looking over the FORD rows for the belt tensioner I needed for my modified dogbone/Alternator bracket.
I had heard that FORD motors had one that would work, but I was not sure what FORD to find it on. I looked for awhile and just like GM, FORD only uses about 3-4 different types of serpentine tensioners on their motors. So I found the cleanest, most accessible one and pulled it. It's off a FORD 3.0L motor. When I got home and compared it to photos I have on my laptop, it still does not look like the ones used in other swaps, but when I tried it on my setup, I could tell it would work. More on this in a later post.
So now I’m walking by the Dodge rows and I spot a PT Cruiser all banged up. It had been in the yard for a while and was missing a lot of parts, but it had a good radiator/front clip. I looked into the engine bay (still on the hunt for the perfect tensioner) and I noticed the small radiator. I looked it over and at first it was not obvious to me it was for the trans, I thought it was an engine oil cooler, but when I followed the lines they led to the transmission. I’m not sure it will work but in my swap I don’t have an automatic car’s radiator, so I was going to have to figure out how to run coolant lines up to the front of the car and back. Talking with others they suggested that I run a trans-cooler to a side scoop, so I had that idea in mind when I pulled this one. I ran the part number through rockauto and it comes back as an honest trans cooler designed for the PT 2.4L, I plan to run it parallel with the engine cradle just behind the gas tank, slightly in the air stream below the car. I also plan to duct some air into it with some kind of sheet metal fab. Still working on this.
Finally, as I went back to the GM side, I walked down the only isle I had to skip because a couple of ya-hoos were pulling a motor and had a huge cart in the way, anyway, as I walked this isle I found a 97 GP SE with the passenger spindle, upper and lower control arms already removed. The only part still attached was the axle. I was not 100% sure it would fit my swap, but ALL the hard work was done and I could not pass it up, so I popped it out of the trans and put it in my cart. I also found a bunch of the heat resistant wire loom on this car, so I pulled it. This stuff is awesome and is real expensive to purchase. I already used some for my new engine harness.
Checked out and gave the man $59.00 bucks for it all.
More soon.
installed the CC here. It fits under the engine cover. this was the easiest place/way to do it. required cutting a piece of 1"x 1" square tube about 5" long, drilling two holes and modifying/cutting the original CC bracket. Started to cut/lable the wires, putting it here gives me lots of extra harness to cut off. No going back now. Its moving forward slowly.
[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 02-06-2013).]
This is an older shot I took last week before I finished my engine harness. You can see all the wires labeled and I had an execl spread sheet that I created to help sort out each wire.
This is the shift assy that one of the club members had made up for his 3800 swap. He decieded on a different method, and had this laying around. Thanks Al for the hook up.
This is a shot of the tensoner setup I came up with, its off a Ford 3.0L motor. Its not the best, but it will work. I think I will have to use a larger pulley, it clears as is, but I want a little more room.
I hope to work on the CC harness this week end. I also need to start working on the fuel lines, fuel pump and the coolant system. I want to install a new radiator and put new hoses on the car.
[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 02-08-2013).]
So today I welded up my alt bracket. mounted the alt for the last time (I hope) and cleaned up the Ford tensioner. Got some new bolts/hardware for everything and I think the serpentine system is done. Now I just have to get a belt that will fit. Some pics below
