My android phone gets a little excited sometimes. I think it re-posts if I go to my home screen right after I post. Then the next time I open the browser it will reload and re-post.
Crazy that I'm DDing my car before this thing was done...
Tell me about it. It was done but needed to be re-done a few times. Two steps forward and one step back. I get a major issue fixed and I see another minor one that needs my attention. I don't like doing things half azz so I gotta have patience and get er done right or keep re-doing it until I do. When it stops being fun and too much of a headache. I just let it sit until I get the bug again.
Don't get me wrong I can fire her up and go around the block anytime but....
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There will be no whine err whistle until it's the right time.
LOL who is gonna get done first? Probably you.. even though I am so close!
I needed to change the Turbo drain line because the 90* bend wasn't allowing the oil to drain properly and caused smoke out the exhaust on extended idling. So I ordered a new one and MstangsBware put it on after he changed the oil pan gasket and Timing chain gasket. But now, the new drain line is leaking...lol So I need to change that out again, then it should be ready...I hope. I put a new tune on her and did a case learn (which stopped my surging issue).
When I had the stock type plugs on the AFR was perfect and it spooled up fast as hell, but the spark would blow out in higher rpm's So, I changed the plugs to AL 103 @ .045 gap to fix the blowout issue but I didn't change the tune making my AFR pretty rich. (colder plugs, smaller gap) Since the turbo didn't spool like before the plug change. I assumed it was because I had too much gap on the plugs. However after doing some research I think my problem is the tune. For a turbo application, I think the tune (AFR) needs to be on the lean side in the low RPM range for better low end torque off the line. The theory being, the leaner AFR promotes a higher EGT's and higher EGT's generate more heat through the exhaust and spool the turbo faster. I was trying to get all my mechanical issues fixed before I started tuning but I did a quick tune flash to validate my theory and I just need to test it out.
I needed to change the Turbo drain line because the 90* bend wasn't allowing the oil to drain properly and caused smoke out the exhaust on extended idling. So I ordered a new one and MstangsBware put it on after he changed the oil pan gasket and Timing chain gasket. But now, the new drain line is leaking...lol So I need to change that out again, then it should be ready...I hope. I put a new tune on her and did a case learn (which stopped my surging issue).
When I had the stock type plugs on the AFR was perfect and it spooled up fast as hell, but the spark would blow out in higher rpm's So, I changed the plugs to AL 103 @ .045 gap to fix the blowout issue but I didn't change the tune making my AFR pretty rich. (colder plugs, smaller gap) Since the turbo didn't spool like before the plug change. I assumed it was because I had too much gap on the plugs. However after doing some research I think my problem is the tune. For a turbo application, I think the tune (AFR) needs to be on the lean side in the low RPM range for better low end torque off the line. The theory being, the leaner AFR promotes a higher EGT's and higher EGT's generate more heat through the exhaust and spool the turbo faster. I was trying to get all my mechanical issues fixed before I started tuning but I did a quick tune flash to validate my theory and I just need to test it out.
I'm no tuner but I know from dicking around with the tune for my many scoobies and Evo they had a section in ECUFlash for "lean spool". With that said, your reasoning is sound.
I made a drain line out of old braided hose and fittings but that started leaking like a mofo. Apparently different vendors drain kits are not compatible. This damn steel braided drain line is kicking my royal azz so I finally order a -10AN barb fitting and high temp silicone drain hose as the braided stainless steel hose is more trouble than I want to deal with. I know that there are local hose shops that could build me one but I can't seem to find any close. (ebay to the rescue)
I also found out that my LTFT fuel trims are stuck at -9.3 (rich). No matter what I did they do NOT change. I know BV had this same issue and I also had it before. I am not sure if a case learn, Full write, or disconnecting the battery cleared it up before. I know when I swapped to a different PCM it fixed the trims but I thought I fixed the other PCM too?. Mstangs seems to thing it may be a vac leak as the trims were fine before it went to the alignment shop. As a matter of fact they were perfect.
As soon as I get the hose from ebay then it is test and tune...LOL That is until I find another issue. I still can't get the oil sender from pegging...grrr
Stock fiero oil pressure gauge should peg with a 3800 engine. Stock 3800 oil pressure is higher than the fiero gauge reads. Only time mine isn't pegged is hot idle. As soon as I come off idle, it is full again.
Took mine for a quick drive last night. 18 psi on the two step was more than my spare axle could take... Car didn't move, sheared the shaft at the snap ring groove. Even the wet rainy road couldn't save the axle lol, guess the suspension likes the new tires .
I'm sure you'll get yours sorted out. Might want to look at the oxygen sensor, mine died over the winter, caused all kinds of issues.
I think it just hit the axle too hard. Never had a chance to spin. It was at 3000 rpm on the two step and 18 lbs boost. Released two step and it snapped right away, it was a rebuild spare I had, and I didn't really trust it to begin with.. The new tires are 255/60r15 drag radials, seem to work good, ran it at 3/4 throttle with 10 lbs and they held, even with the slightly wet roads. Suspension is poly bushings, Monroe struts, stock springs with fronts cut one coil. 215/60r15 front tires. Weight balance is probably rear biased, which helps, and the car transfers back well. Best 60' on true street tires was a 1.71, it has always worked well.
I think it just hit the axle too hard. Never had a chance to spin. It was at 3000 rpm on the two step and 18 lbs boost. Released two step and it snapped right away, it was a rebuild spare I had, and I didn't really trust it to begin with.. The new tires are 255/60r15 drag radials, seem to work good, ran it at 3/4 throttle with 10 lbs and they held, even with the slightly wet roads. Suspension is poly bushings, Monroe struts, stock springs with fronts cut one coil. 215/60r15 front tires. Weight balance is probably rear biased, which helps, and the car transfers back well. Best 60' on true street tires was a 1.71, it has always worked well.
Do you feather the throttle at all off the 2 step, or is it just floored the entire way?
WOT. Without the two step it will push through the brakes, on the two step it will sit. Might have to get a tighter converter now that brakes are working better.
Stock fiero oil pressure gauge should peg with a 3800 engine. Stock 3800 oil pressure is higher than the fiero gauge reads. Only time mine isn't pegged is hot idle. As soon as I come off idle, it is full again.
I'm sure you'll get yours sorted out. Might want to look at the oxygen sensor, mine died over the winter, caused all kinds of issues.
I got the NAPA equilivant and it is still pegged. I may try the Delco1808A just for the hell of it.
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Originally posted by BV MotorSports:
Look at the vid, you can see the gauge. Works PERFECT! I got this info from Timm's directions that came with the harness:
Oil pressure sender- '88 2.5L or 2.8. Delco 1808A or 10096181 or equivalent.
CTS Delco 213815 or 10096181 or equivalent
If the O2 sensor is hosed would the STFT still work? Only mine the LTFT's are screwed as they stopped moving.
[This message has been edited by nosrac (edited 05-31-2013).]
There is a limit in the PCM for how far the STFT and LTFT can go. I can't remember what limit is, but if you hit it, it won't go any further. If the O2 died full rich, the PCM will pull fuel to the limit trying to get the o2 to respond. It will eventually set a code, but likely need a drive cycle first.
Fiero gauge only reads 50 psi, 3800 makes up to 85 psi at the sensor port. Put a mechanical test gauge on the port and see whà t it reads. I'd be more concerned if the gauge isn't maxed out. Mine did that when I got going in the oil and wiped out all the bearings.
My fiero gauge goes up to 80. Cold start idle is 60. Hot idle is 40+ and raises up to 60ish off idle. I've never had a mechanical gauge on it so who knows if it's right.
Fiero gauge only reads 50 psi, 3800 makes up to 85 psi at the sensor port. Put a mechanical test gauge on the port and see whà t it reads. I'd be more concerned if the gauge isn't maxed out. Mine did that when I got going in the oil and wiped out all the bearings.
Are the 88 gauges different? The only difference than before the turbo install is the addition of the T port to the turbo feed. Before it read high but it never pegged. Maybe the restrictor on the turbo feed line is causing more pressure? BV is NOT running a restrictor and I don't think Justin is either.
Are the 88 gauges different? The only difference than before the turbo install is the addition of the T port to the turbo feed. Before it read high but it never pegged. Maybe the restrictor on the turbo feed line is causing more pressure? BV is NOT running a restrictor and I don't think Justin is either.
Phonedawgz mentioned to me about two different senders to use. The typical 3800 one and some other one that will work for cars that the oil pressure pegs. IIRC its toward the end of my build thread. And you are right, I am not running a restrictor on my oil feed to the turbo.
I'm not running a restrictor, and also running a aftermarket sending unit with the Cavalier Digital Dash. However with the stock GT gauge and a few different sending units, it was pegged as well.
In other news, it looks like my torque converter failed tonight. Makes bad noises shifting into gear, and driving under light load. I'm out of patience and out of money right now, so it will have to sit. Was really hoping for the 9 second pass next weekend, but it's not to be.
I'm not running a restrictor, and also running a aftermarket sending unit with the Cavalier Digital Dash. However with the stock GT gauge and a few different sending units, it was pegged as well.
In other news, it looks like my torque converter failed tonight. Makes bad noises shifting into gear, and driving under light load. I'm out of patience and out of money right now, so it will have to sit. Was really hoping for the 9 second pass next weekend, but it's not to be.
Man, sorry to hear that. That's the problem with swaps such as this, transverse transmissions just can't hold the power without a very expensive build, and even then there is no guarantee. This goes for any commonly used transmission with this swap, 4T65eHD, F23, F40, etc. Not counting the 282, 4-speed muncie etc, because they don't really stand a chance.
My fiero gauge goes up to 80. Cold start idle is 60. Hot idle is 40+ and raises up to 60ish off idle. I've never had a mechanical gauge on it so who knows if it's right.
That's exactly how mine is. I do have a Autometer 0-100psi mechanical gauge "T"ed off the stock sending unit orifice . 61-64psi cold start, 41-43psi Hot idle and 55-58ish hot anytime up off idle.
Originally posted by 1fast2m4: That's exactly how mine is. I do have a Autometer 0-100psi mechanical gauge "T"ed off the stock sending unit orifice . 61-64psi cold start, 41-43psi Hot idle and 55-58ish hot anytime up off idle.
Same here, hot idle is around 50, cold idle is 60, I don't remember off idle though.
80% progress on my solution to that. Although no major F23 failure from me yet....
Oh that's right, I was going by what happened with JustinB, I thought he killed his F23, but then I remembered he put it back together wrong the first time (if I'm not mistaken) and killed the output shaft bearing area.
4T80e...I thought some people tried that in the past in a Grand Prix, but they had too much trouble with getting the electronics to work with the 3800 PCM? Now that I think about it, you went aftermarket anyway for the 3800, right? I wonder what the 80e can actually take, it better be alot considering the weight penalty you are taking...
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 06-02-2013).]
Dark, you hardly beat on that trans, your 1.7+ 60' times are easy on the trans. You talk about your axles never breaking and no trans failures, but haven't done anything that others haven't done on bone stock transmissions. Its easy to put lots of power through the parts once your moving, the first 10-20 feet is where the damage is done. When you start making 10+ lbs on the line, and leave with the wheels up, then you can talk to me about parts failures. I'll say it again, your 60' times, I did 8 years ago with a bone stock 4t60e, on street tires with half your HP. When you hit your trans with nitrous and everything else you have planned, then you might start to see the issues myself and others who 60' hard have seen. If you continue to make supra style runs with big mph and ET that doesn't match, I'm sure you'll continue to not break anything.
Oh that's right, I was going by what happened with JustinB, I thought he killed his F23, but then I remembered he put it back together wrong the first time (if I'm not mistaken) and killed the output shaft bearing area.
4T80e...I thought some people tried that in the past in a Grand Prix, but they had too much trouble with getting the electronics to work with the 3800 PCM? Now that I think about it, you went aftermarket anyway for the 3800, right? I wonder what the 80e can actually take, it better be alot considering the weight penalty you are taking...
zzp is working on a 1" chain for the 65e. That will probably be better than the 80. I have the fully built 65 from zzp, but I haven't had any fast 60's. My last time at the drag strip it did 0-60 in 2.42 (calculated) seconds with a 1.8 60'...
WOT. Without the two step it will push through the brakes, on the two step it will sit. Might have to get a tighter converter now that brakes are working better.
How much of a burnout are you doing? I can't figure out why I'm spinning over 3psi. I get better traction on the street.
I'm not going to be able to do a full 1/4 pull for around 2 months now because of scheduling issues, so I might tinker with the suspension some. I have 235/60/15 mt et streets tire wise.
[This message has been edited by Formula (edited 06-02-2013).]
Dark, you hardly beat on that trans, your 1.7+ 60' times are easy on the trans. You talk about your axles never breaking and no trans failures, but haven't done anything that others haven't done on bone stock transmissions. Its easy to put lots of power through the parts once your moving, the first 10-20 feet is where the damage is done. When you start making 10+ lbs on the line, and leave with the wheels up, then you can talk to me about parts failures. I'll say it again, your 60' times, I did 8 years ago with a bone stock 4t60e, on street tires with half your HP. When you hit your trans with nitrous and everything else you have planned, then you might start to see the issues myself and others who 60' hard have seen. If you continue to make supra style runs with big mph and ET that doesn't match, I'm sure you'll continue to not break anything.
What's the big deal about pushing faster then 1.7 60' times if it start breaking things? I certainly wouldn't take that risk, but then again I may not be a true drag racer like you are.
Enough to get the tires smoking. If you watch the video in my first turbo passes thread, that is a normal burnout for me. Do you have a line lock? That helps alot in getting them warm, I release the lock, and burnout out of the water, until the tires squawk. That way they are dry, and gripping. The 235/60r15 mt drag radials are what I have run up until now, they should work for you, 23-24 psi is where I ran them.
It's not a big deal, but for him to say he's never broken anything, every time I post about an issue, it gets old, I shouldn't let it bug me, but it does. Guys like FieroX, Don Kraus, etc that have run 1.4 and 1.5 60' times have seen the same issues I have. I've got no issue with people taking it easy out of the hole to save parts, but I don't see anyone else talking about their lack of failures when someone else has issues. It's just trolling, and I guess i should expect it from him.
Enough to get the tires smoking. If you watch the video in my first turbo passes thread, that is a normal burnout for me. Do you have a line lock? That helps alot in getting them warm, I release the lock, and burnout out of the water, until the tires squawk. That way they are dry, and gripping. The 235/60r15 mt drag radials are what I have run up until now, they should work for you, 23-24 psi is where I ran them.
no line lock. If I can't get a good burn out I'll add one. I just spun enough to clean off the tires, so I'll try holding it some to get some smoke. I'm really only looking for mid 10s so I don't think I'll need a monster launch like what you can do.
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it got traction? 
I get better traction on the street.
