Would it be different on my ls4? That's the way my turbo is mounted. No support for it. It's a T66. I have cast iron headers. Is that what you guys are using too?
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Originally posted by Darth Fiero:
Didn't Justin's rear exhaust manifold buckle and bend under the weight of his turbo; so much to the point the turbo was resting on his sway bar? Didn't you build that car or at least have some influence on the "design" of how the turbo was mounted to the engine? Didn't I warn you guys that was going to happen because you weren't using any brackets to support the weight of that turbo (and you argued with me about it - insisting the manifold, by itself, was plenty strong enough to support the weight of that turbo)?
And while we are on the subject of failures, what about Justin's previous engine (his L26)? Did his connecting rod not fail on him due to being overloaded because it was subjected to turbo boost? I seem to remember countless posts you were making arguing that N/A internals (even L26 N/A internals) could take just about anything you threw at them. You didn't change your tune on this subject until after Justin's L26 puked on the highway. Again, I warned you guys that was going to happen but you didn't listen.
Would it be different on my ls4? That's the way my turbo is mounted. No support for it. It's a T66. I have cast iron headers. Is that what you guys are using too?
Listen if you wish, but justins turbo is 80lbs.. my t67 is about 10.... Justins manifolds were glowing orange and purple 10+ times due to a problem that he has where the pcm decides to command zero degrees of timing advance.
Unfortunately this darth fiero character is just hunting around for a nerve of me actually screwing something up, but has yet to find one. My T67 and my smaller T3 turbo has been on my car for years and years without a single hint of issues.
Would it be different on my ls4? That's the way my turbo is mounted. No support for it. It's a T66. I have cast iron headers. Is that what you guys are using too?
Cast iron manifolds are more rigid but they are also more bittle. I wouldn't worry so much about them bending as I would them cracking. Again, NO manufacturer I've seen just hangs a turbo off a manifold without some kind of bracket (or brackets) supporting the weight of the turbo, I don't care how small/light the turbo is. Auto manufacturers are in the business of making money just like everyone else and they wouldn't spend money making and installing turbo supporting brackets if they didn't have to.
Beyond that, think about what you are asking your exhaust manifold to do when it is heated to over 1000 deg F if you hang a turbo off the end of it; then factor in the shock loads it will be subjected to when the car is driven on public roads which we all know are not perfectly smooth.
-ryan
[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 07-09-2012).]
ast iron manifolds are more rigid but they are also more bittle. I wouldn't worry so much about them bending as I would them cracking. Again, NO manufacturer I've seen just hangs a turbo off a manifold without some kind of bracket (or brackets) supporting the weight of the turbo, I don't care how small/light the turbo is.
-ryan
I hope you are kidding... I can think of 5 turbo cars that don't have brackets right now.
I took a quick glance at the tdi Fiero we are building. The turbo is cast as part of the exhaust manifold and is pretty small in comparison to other turbos....and it has a huge bracket to support it. I haven't seen a German turbo car without supporting brackets. I also looked at every German car I work on and every plastic or aluminum intake manifold that is on a straight six has two supporting brackets. I don't get to look under the hoods of Asian cars or domestic stuff much, but from what I have seen, brackets seem like a good idea, but if DH says I can remove them and get their scrap value...he's THE engineer
[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 07-09-2012).]
DH you come up with the dumbest things to argue about. Turbo brackets? Or my favorite, the ZZP crate engine vrs junkyard engine debate. F****** really? I mean how sad and lonely must you be? Why do I get the impression you are some 140#, socially awkward kid, that gets on the internet with the big tough guy or I am smarter than you attitude?
We will never have a decent thread about 3800's or turbos as long as Cliff allows you on this forum. We, as a community, need to PM Cliff and get you permanently banned.
[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 07-09-2012).]
DH you come up with the dumbest things to argue about. Turbo brackets? Or my favorite, the ZZP crate engine vrs junkyard engine debate. F****** really? I mean how sad and lonely must you be? Why do I get the impression you are some 140#, socially awkward kid, that gets on the internet with the big tough guy or I am smarter than you attitude?
We will never have a decent thread about 3800's or turbos as long as Cliff allows you on this forum. We, as a community, need to PM Cliff and get you permanently banned.
Where the hell do you get off saying this? Who are you to decide who stays and who goes? I realize that DH can be kind of a smartass but so have you.... I can tell you this much, if he or justin or anyone else who is willing to contribute information and ideas RIGHT OR WRONG about 3800 turbo's and fiero's in general are speedbanned by this kinda mentality you can say goodbye to me as well. I am a member of this forum because I enjoy the ideas and cool projects and information about my favorite sportscar. DH has been able to show that one can build a very fast fiero for very little money and while nothing is perfect regardless of who builds it on here I have been able to get a lot of ideas and information from his posts and pictures. I am here to tell you that this COMMUNITY is NOT behind you in banning anybody.... Everyone here contributes in their own way, I get it, DH gets under your skin, you don't like him, he is abrasive and kind of a smartass..... This is not lost on me at all. He has however not done anything other than disagree with you and others here. It really does not matter who is right or wrong to me it is all opinion. He has every right to say whatever he wants as do you or I. There is a line where someone should be banned and IMHO disagreement regardless of how strongly it is given is not past that line. Personally I would love to see MORE pictures and ideas about the 3800 TURBO not just from him but from anyone here who has successfully built one. It is what I want to do to my own car and I welcome ANY information on the matter. Perhaps I would not be missed as I have had my own disagreements with others here but that is my problem. I do however take offense to anyone who says someone should be BANNED simply because they disagree with them. Peace
I dont think he should be banned, we just need to create a way for the forum to filter out stupids..If its sounds stupid it probably is..Everyone has their own way of doing things. Some wrong, some right and then the grey area in between. If you want a fast but cheaply built turbo 3800 have wonderkid do it. If you want a fast, reliable,safe turbo 3800 dont have wonderkid do it..Its that simple.
I don't think he should be banned either. He has some good things to say... though he is one of those we will call "Stuck in their way" and don't really see other ways. I, admittingly, am the same way. I see one way, and I don't understand why to do it differently, unless its explained to me with examples on why.
As for turbo brackets... I don't remember there being turbo brackets on a Volvo I6, or a Saab 2.0 or 2.3T, or an Audi 1.8t or 2.0TFSI... I could be wrong, but I don't remember seeing anything that stood out as a bracket. All those turbos, though, are very small in size, and not an 80lb turbo!
Common sense comes into play when you think about brackets. Small turbos tight tucked without much leverage, with support of exhaust hangars and intake brackets attached to the intake hard tubes, should be perfectly fine. Large turbos, that won't cut it, and a large brace at the turbo flange should be installed to hold it properly (or bolted somewhere on the turbo housings?)
What BV was talkIng about isn't just DH being a smart-ass or disagreeing with people. He's trolled EVERY 3800 thread and has plagued several build threads, mine included. The truth is on other forums he WOULD have been banned by now by the mods. Most people on here are somewhat respectful and offer constructive criticism, DH only criticizes without any redeeming quality. Giving users an ignore function would help a lot I think.
There is no one here that I don't want to hear their ideas on turbos. I don't even have a 3800 and probably never will. (you can only keep so many cars and I already have three Fieros with aluminum V8s), but a lot of the turbo tech works on all engines, so just put it all out there and let us sort it out. I am not one of those who likes censorship.
The biggest problem I have with this forum is people come into threads with "theory" and say things dont work.... Then I correct them by saying "yes I did this, and it does work" yet for some reason that is not good enough.
Darthfiero has a theory that I do everything wrong, and that anything that is not done by this magical book he read 25 years ago, is also wrong.... I prove that there are other ways to do things and I just have it taken out of context or skewed into some other form so people here can keep their ego's in tact.
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If you want a fast, reliable,safe turbo 3800 dont have wonderkid do it..Its that simple.
lol wut? I easily have had the most reliable 500+hp fiero on this forum, hands down no questions asked. The ONLY thing I have ever broken was a factory headgasket which was the result of me making over 650whp.... which was easily fixed.
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He's trolled EVERY 3800 thread and has plagued several build threads, mine included.
I never trolled your thread, or any other threads here... the problem is I offer actual real world information, and try to help these massive piles of fail that people try working on on this forum. Just because you guys seem to think that this forum is just a "look at me I am doing something" place is not my fault.... Every other forum I have been on is a place for information sharing, not baseless bragging and closemindedness.
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Most people on here are somewhat respectful and offer constructive criticism,
Who? There is probably 1 or 2 other people that could offer constructive advice on your car... and they choose not to because they are "pff smarter" than me.
I do not condone the mob mentality of "lets ban him everybody!". While I do not agree with hardly anything DH says about 3800 - I have to recognize that he does have some skills with tuning them to get the best performance out of the engine.
As far as building them -
He'd have to pay me to build one for me.. even then I'd would not keep it as he built and would either pay someone to make it right, or make changes myself because based on what I've seen and read on this forum It seems that DH will trade performance for cosmetics, safety and durability. I do not believe in trading one for the other.
Having the entire trunk wall cut out without bracing - that is a safety issue - no matter how you look at it. That thick double wall with the reinforced beam was not put there for no reason.
Not having a bracket on a 67 pound turbo? - it ain't gonna last long. Basic laws of physics will tell you that over time the heat cool cycles, and weight hanging from the manifold isn't a good idea.
[This message has been edited by topcat (edited 07-09-2012).]
Where the hell do you get off saying this? Who are you to decide who stays and who goes? I realize that DH can be kind of a smartass but so have you.... I can tell you this much, if he or justin or anyone else who is willing to contribute information and ideas RIGHT OR WRONG about 3800 turbo's and fiero's in general are speedbanned by this kinda mentality you can say goodbye to me as well. I am a member of this forum because I enjoy the ideas and cool projects and information about my favorite sportscar. DH has been able to show that one can build a very fast fiero for very little money and while nothing is perfect regardless of who builds it on here I have been able to get a lot of ideas and information from his posts and pictures. I am here to tell you that this COMMUNITY is NOT behind you in banning anybody.... Everyone here contributes in their own way, I get it, DH gets under your skin, you don't like him, he is abrasive and kind of a smartass..... This is not lost on me at all. He has however not done anything other than disagree with you and others here. It really does not matter who is right or wrong to me it is all opinion. He has every right to say whatever he wants as do you or I. There is a line where someone should be banned and IMHO disagreement regardless of how strongly it is given is not past that line. Personally I would love to see MORE pictures and ideas about the 3800 TURBO not just from him but from anyone here who has successfully built one. It is what I want to do to my own car and I welcome ANY information on the matter. Perhaps I would not be missed as I have had my own disagreements with others here but that is my problem. I do however take offense to anyone who says someone should be BANNED simply because they disagree with them. Peace
I am about to say you dont know how to read, or maybe I dont know how to explain complicated things in sentence form.
Out of those two options I'm going with option #2, but in all honesty I don't really ever see you try to explain anything complicated. You mainly just try to insult people and make false claims about your accomplishments or importance. It would be one thing if you genuinely contributed to people's threads, but mainly you don't, and if someone doesn't agree with your method you start insulting their intelligence and bragging about your "race car skills".
I've tried to get along with you Scott, I've even paid you a compliment here and there. Bottom line is you're a troll, and most of the stuff you say is just aimed at being insulting or inflammatory. I've seen what you've posted on other forums about yourself and your skills in comparison to other people here on the forum. You have no respect for anyone and your opinion of yourself is inflated at best. I'm waiting for you to follow L67's path, as you think you're so much better than everyone else. Why hang around?
Those that have been on here a while will notice the decline of good threads. Most keep to themselves or small "local" circles due to the garbage that finds its way into most any build type thread. This undermines us as a community and really brings down this forum. Just look at how little is posted now a days.
Nosrac, Hey man do you have some pictures of the repair to the rear engine bulkhead in your car. I am curious to see what they did to repair it and strengthen it. Also has there been any more progress on your build. Anxious to see what becomes of this and still hoping for that elusive NINE second fiero hehehe peace
Nosrac, Hey man do you have some pictures of the repair to the rear engine bulkhead in your car. I am curious to see what they did to repair it and strengthen it. Also has there been any more progress on your build. Anxious to see what becomes of this and still hoping for that elusive NINE second fiero hehehe peace
Pete
I'll get some more pics soon. The car is pretty much done just some little things. The Trunk brace was bolted back on and I will get it welded and add some more support. Once I get it back and running with a good tune then I will address any part of the build I don't like. For example I designed the Turbo to be under the trunk shelf so I chose a particular IC based on that. Since I don't have a trunk anymore I either will be building one or changing IC again to something that suits my taste and the look I was going for.
Ooohh SUCKAGE!! Sorry to hear it but just think once the issues are sorted thru you should have one SMOKIN' fast fiero so if that is your only problem you'll forgive my lack of sympathies hehehe peace
Bummer to hear. Custom swaps usually have a lot of 'issues' along the way unfortunately. Is it anything that the forum could help with?
Well I drove it to the Muffler shop and it had 0 power. A Iron Duke with Auto would hand me my Azz.....LOL
Well we put the muffler on and it did sound pretty good.
However, the O2 sensor plug wasn't long enough...
Got a Universal O2 from Autozone which is longer and installer is going to use that one.
My $20 Ebay LT1 MAF may not be working as it wasn't showing any voltage on the scanner...Went to Autozone to get a New One..$130
The LQ4 MAF has the IAT sensor intergrated, the LT1 not so much...
Had to go back to Autozone and get a IAT and then purchase a extension connector and MAF/IAT adapter from ZZP. I should have purchased their O2 extension too..
My engine harness is a LQ4 connector so installer needs to rewire it to work with the adapter cause you know it dosen't fit.
Question: would no IATsensor, broke MAF sensor, and no O2 sensor= 0 power or limp mode?
