--Well I drove it to the Muffler shop and it had 0 power. A Iron Duke with Auto would hand me my Azz.....LOL
you have some major problems then.
--However, the O2 sensor plug wasn't long enough...
you dont need a narrowband sensor, and probably couldnt even run one properly if you wanted to with that car.
--Got a Universal O2 from Autozone which is longer and installer is going to use that one.
Yeah, that "universal" part is really really weird. You need a very specific o2 sensor, if you were to even attempt to get it to work correctly (which is realistically speaking impossible)
--My $20 Ebay LT1 MAF may not be working as it wasn't showing any voltage on the scanner...Went to Autozone to get a New One..$130
Maf sensors do not read voltage, but they do read frequency. Give it 12 volts on the pink wire, ground on the black and it will output a wave form out of the middle wire.
--The LQ4 MAF has the IAT sensor intergrated, the LT1 not so much...
You dont need a IAT, and if you really want you can just plug it in with ambient temperature
--Had to go back to Autozone and get a IAT and then purchase a extension connector and MAF/IAT adapter from ZZP. I should have purchased their O2 extension too.. --My engine harness is a LQ4 connector so installer needs to rewire it to work with the adapter cause you know it dosen't fit.
So you bought a LT1 sensor, then bought an adapter, then you rewired it? I am confused
--Question: would no IATsensor, broke MAF sensor, and no O2 sensor= 0 power or limp mode?
Limp mode, sorta. It should be able to make a solid 200whp before things went weird though (would just show a lean out on the wideband after you started making more than a few psi of boost). There is no "limp mode" on a 3800 that I have found, aside from transmission murder mode, that I am not even sure is able to be activated by a normal human.
I tune my GTP with the MAF unplugged, it shouldn't be an issue. IAT can just be zip tied to atmosphere for now. O2 shouldn't be an issue because you can lock in open loop and just tune off wideband. All your issues can easily be avoided for the time being from the sound of it.
Edit, in the future, make sure your o2 is matched to your pcm. Idk why it mattered but I ran into issues on my sisters 3800 swap using a GTP and Bonneville sensor with her Buick pcm. Seems like it wouldn't matter, but pn was dif and kept setting code.
[This message has been edited by Jncomutt (edited 07-11-2012).]
I got some Weird DTC codes too. P0102-MAF sensor P0753 P1860 I hope I just need to re-flash the tune. It is mostly the same tune as before with different MAF table and different PCM. However, I was tweaking the Trans tables and that is what those codes seem to be complaining about.
[This message has been edited by nosrac (edited 07-11-2012).]
All your issues can easily be avoided for the time being from the sound of it.
Edit, in the future, make sure your o2 is matched to your pcm. Idk why it mattered but I ran into issues on my sisters 3800 swap using a GTP and Bonneville sensor with her Buick pcm. Seems like it wouldn't matter, but pn was dif and kept setting code.
What about the 0 power issue??? I had kinda the same issue when I flashed a DHP 1.5 tune for a Grand Prix. I had 0 power and black smoke.
You may have got a downstream o2 sensor instead of an upstram.
What about the 0 power issue??? I had kinda the same issue when I flashed a DHP 1.5 tune for a Grand Prix. I had 0 power and black smoke.
You may have got a downstream o2 sensor instead of an upstram.
An o2 sensor is not going to cause problems of any large scale. A functioning o2 in your car will probably have a lot in common with a malfunctioning one as you have a cam and a turbo.
I don't understand this, why is figuring out this setup problems on your shoulders? Does the fellow who has been doing your installation not have the responsibility to figure out what is wrong with the setup? Or is this problem beyond him at this point? I am sorry you are having issues. I hope that it gets sorted out soon for you. If it is any consolation the install is looking pretty nice. Good luck man. Peace
You could always get one of those plugs that records info from your PCM and send It off to someone a little more familiar like Darth. I would think its a tuning issue but I did have an o2 sensor go out on a particular car and it caused it to run horribly. Welcome to the club man, hopefully it will be sorted out soon.
I don't understand this, why is figuring out this setup problems on your shoulders? Does the fellow who has been doing your installation not have the responsibility to figure out what is wrong with the setup? Or is this problem beyond him at this point? I am sorry you are having issues. I hope that it gets sorted out soon for you. If it is any consolation the install is looking pretty nice. Good luck man. Peace
Pete
Well, it is a joint venture. He is doing all he can and I try to help out as much as i can. In the end it is my car and my issue.
You could always get one of those plugs that records info from your PCM and send It off to someone a little more familiar like Darth. I would think its a tuning issue but I did have an o2 sensor go out on a particular car and it caused it to run horribly. Welcome to the club man, hopefully it will be sorted out soon.
Yeah, I swapped the PCM and used a different base tune. I have a scanner and will log some data if the PCM swap Dosent fix the issue.
So you bought a LT1 sensor, then bought an adapter, then you rewired it? I am confused
Yeah, I had the LQ4 MAF with a LQ4 5 pin connector on my harness. I went with the LT1 with 3 wire connector and purchased a ZZP 3 wire to 5 wire adapter. The adapter did NOT fit on the harness side even though it was 5 wire as the adapter connector was too small. Also, I now need a external IAT because the LQ4 had a integrated IAT but the LT1 does not. So I need an adapter for the LT1 (3 wire) and IAT (2 wire) that connects to the 5 wire harness.
To my knowledge there are no adapters readily availible to break those out like that... I have a feeling splicing them in via some solder and shrinkwrap is the best plan. You can leave the IAT out of the picture for the time being, as you would want to get a 2.8 fiero sensor welded into a charge pipe eventually (if you care, I scan mine every now and then, but it hardly changes, and is WAY to slow to offer any sort of help in a boosted car.)
Either way, I doubt your old maf was actually dead.... its pretty hard to kill them completely.
To my knowledge there are no adapters readily availible to break those out like that... I have a feeling splicing them in via some solder and shrinkwrap is the best plan. You can leave the IAT out of the picture for the time being, as you would want to get a 2.8 fiero sensor welded into a charge pipe eventually (if you care, I scan mine every now and then, but it hardly changes, and is WAY to slow to offer any sort of help in a boosted car.)
Either way, I doubt your old maf was actually dead.... its pretty hard to kill them completely.
2.8 IAT is metal and can be threaded into a bung post turbo and Intercooler to see actual temps of air going to engine. Otherwise you are just reading ambient temp. I datalog post Intercooler IAT, shows a drop in temp on initial wot, climbs to around 10 degrees over ambient at end of 1/4 mile. People say it is too slow, but when throttle is released, the temp starts to drop almost immediately.
I would cut off your 5 wire and solder in new connectors.
------------------ 11.425 @115.60 Best 60' 1.543 seconds 3800 S/C 4T65E
New combo : Billet 6262 Precision turbo, PT1001 intercooler, ST1 cam, 130lb springs, comp pushrods, HV3, ARP Rod bolts, otherwise stock L36. 10.263 @ 134.44MPH
What does it feel like when the PCM run bad fuel table?
Going to try this...as most of this applys...
"CRANKSHAFT VARIATION RELEARN (CASE Learn)
”CASE” means: crankshaft angle sensor error. A crankshaft variation relearn must be performed if:
A diagnostic trouble code of P1336 is present. The computer has been replaced or re-programmed. The crankshaft position sensor has been replaced. The engine, harmonic balancer, clutch, or flywheel have been: disassembled, removed, or replaced. The crankshaft position variation learning feature enables the computer to compensate for part manufacturing tolerances. This allows the computer to accurately detect an engine misfire throughout the engine RPM range. The learning process is stored in the computer’s memory and does not have to be repeated unless one or more of the above conditions are present.
What does it feel like when the PCM run bad fuel table?
Going to try this...as most of this applys...
"CRANKSHAFT VARIATION RELEARN (CASE Learn)
”CASE” means: crankshaft angle sensor error. A crankshaft variation relearn must be performed if:
A diagnostic trouble code of P1336 is present. The computer has been replaced or re-programmed. The crankshaft position sensor has been replaced. The engine, harmonic balancer, clutch, or flywheel have been: disassembled, removed, or replaced. The crankshaft position variation learning feature enables the computer to compensate for part manufacturing tolerances. This allows the computer to accurately detect an engine misfire throughout the engine RPM range. The learning process is stored in the computer’s memory and does not have to be repeated unless one or more of the above conditions are present.
My 3800s/c developed a misfire. After looking at the car, I did a case learn and it ran perfectly. I normally do a case learn on every 3800 Fiero that comes into my shop at some point before tuning it. Dave
I got some Weird DTC codes too. P0102-MAF sensor P0753 P1860 I hope I just need to re-flash the tune. It is mostly the same tune as before with different MAF table and different PCM. However, I was tweaking the Trans tables and that is what those codes seem to be complaining about.
P0753 is for a transmission shift solenoid A electrical fault. P1860 is for a torque converter clutch PWM solenoid electrical fault.
With these two codes being present, I'd speculate that the transmission is operating in LIMP mode and you aren't getting 1st gear at all, and you might not even be getting 2nd gear either (unless you place the shifter into L2 or L1 position). So effectively, you're probably starting out in 3rd gear from a dead stop which means it is going to feel like it has no power at all. I would start by checking your transmission wiring and go from there.
Concerning the comment about the narrow band O2 sensor, you can run one with an aftermarket cam and a turbo and it will work fine (if the PCM is tuned properly). I've done this many times in many different builds, and never had much of any problem doing so. But if you want to pull it out and run an wideband O2 full time and just tune and drive using that, you can certaily do that - it is your choice (not something I would do but it's not my car). Narrow bands do work and they work fine with cams and turbos (and you can keep your closed loop fuel system working like it should) if the PCM tune is set up correctly.
-ryan
------------------ OVERKILL IS UNDERRATED Custom GM OBD1 & OBD2 Tuning | Engine Conversions & more | www.gmtuners.com
People say it is too slow, but when throttle is released, the temp starts to drop almost immediately
It doesnt change temps ENOUGH... it takes a few seconds of sustained temperature to make it read it.. so you are only sustaining larger temps for a few seconds.
P0753 is for a transmission shift solenoid A electrical fault. P1860 is for a torque converter clutch PWM solenoid electrical fault.
With these two codes being present, I'd speculate that the transmission is operating in LIMP mode and you aren't getting 1st gear at all, and you might not even be getting 2nd gear either (unless you place the shifter into L2 or L1 position). So effectively, you're probably starting out in 3rd gear from a dead stop which means it is going to feel like it has no power at all. I would start by checking your transmission wiring and go from there.
Concerning the comment about the narrow band O2 sensor, you can run one with an aftermarket cam and a turbo and it will work fine (if the PCM is tuned properly). I've done this many times in many different builds, and never had much of any problem doing so. But if you want to pull it out and run an wideband O2 full time and just tune and drive using that, you can certaily do that - it is your choice (not something I would do but it's not my car). Narrow bands do work and they work fine with cams and turbos (and you can keep your closed loop fuel system working like it should) if the PCM tune is set up correctly.
-ryan
Thx for the tip but how would I know what gear it is actually in? I have an Aeroforce and it said it was in 1st gear. If it is actually starting in 3rd gear but reporting 1st would it eventually start to pick up speed and go into boost? I hope to log with my DHP tomorrow and will report back.
Thx for the tip but how would I know what gear it is actually in? I have an Aeroforce and it said it was in 1st gear. If it is actually starting in 3rd gear but reporting 1st would it eventually start to pick up speed and go into boost? I hope to log with my DHP tomorrow and will report back.
If the PCM is throwing an electrical circuit code for Shift Solenoid A, then it thinks Shift Solenoid A isn't working. And if this is indeed the case, you're not going to have 1st or 4th gears. The presence of this code could also prevent 2nd gear operation too. Which leaves you with Reverse and 3rd as the only gears you might have.
I can't say why your scan gage is reporting what it is reporting. Maybe it's wrong. Or maybe the P0753 code is an old code and the transmission is working fine now, I can't say. But your description of the engine feeling like it is making 0 power sure fits the description of what I would expect to hear from someone who's transmission isn't starting out in 1st or 2nd gear from a dead stop.
If the PCM is throwing an electrical circuit code for Shift Solenoid A, then it thinks Shift Solenoid A isn't working. And if this is indeed the case, you're not going to have 1st or 4th gears. The presence of this code could also prevent 2nd gear operation too. Which leaves you with Reverse and 3rd as the only gears you might have. I can't say why your scan gage is reporting what it is reporting. Maybe it's wrong. Or maybe the P0753 code is an old code and the transmission is working fine now, I can't say. But your description of the engine feeling like it is making 0 power sure fits the description of what I would expect to hear from someone who's transmission isn't starting out in 1st or 2nd gear from a dead stop.
OMFG, I know it hasn't been tuned yet but my Turbo setup currently SUX.....
I took it for another test drive @ 6lbs boost and double digits LTFT and it felt like a 2.8 with auto off the line. Mind you I am used to a 12lbs insta boost 300+ WHP angry birds launch on the street.....WEeeeee
However,....When it FINALLY spooled up...There may be hope as the potential is definetly there. What I want to know is what happened to the 200HP NA.. As I am pretty sure it wasabout 130HP NA...off Boost
Hopefuly, a Wastegate spring change and my DHP Powrtuner can come to the rescue as I'll never run a 10,11, or 12 for that matter with that spool time....
quote
Originally posted by Justinbart:
meh, just put the blower back on.
Did I tell you lately that I HATE YOU....LOL
I am happy that it is running though, so I am definetly NOT complaning....I am all smiles..
I just MIGHT NOT be able to back up all that smack I was talkin....Can U Say....EPIC FAIL
Aw cmon now man..... I am sure it is just a matter of troubleshooting the new setup. It sure looks nice and there is no reason it should not haul ever lovin' ass with those nice quality shiny parts right!! hehehe peace
2.8 IAT is metal and can be threaded into a bung post turbo and Intercooler to see actual temps of air going to engine. Otherwise you are just reading ambient temp. I datalog post Intercooler IAT, shows a drop in temp on initial wot, climbs to around 10 degrees over ambient at end of 1/4 mile. People say it is too slow, but when throttle is released, the temp starts to drop almost immediately.
I would cut off your 5 wire and solder in new connectors.
Aw cmon now man..... I am sure it is just a matter of troubleshooting the new setup. It sure looks nice and there is no reason it should not haul ever lovin' ass with those nice quality shiny parts right!! hehehe peace
Pete
LOL...I'm trying to save face....
A Tune and 14lbs Boost will make a huge difference..... I HOPE... After I tuned my SC setup I went from 13.3 to 12.0.
The brakes currently won't hold past 1800RPM so I am going to put on the S10 brake booster.
The Bigger Cam is using more or producing less vacuum and my brakes aren't a good as they were before.
Also, I will probably need at least a 3K Stall Converter when I upgrade the transmission.
A Tune and 14lbs Boost will make a huge difference..... I HOPE... After I tuned my SC setup I went from 13.3 to 12.0.
quote
double digits LTFT
Sounds like a mess. I told you you cant run a narrowband. I assume you are just drowning in fuel during PE?
quote
The brakes currently won't hold past 1800RPM so I am going to put on the S10 brake booster.
If only it was that simple... A booster will not do anything for you, but a new adjustable prop valve will allow you to give alot more brake to the rear..... Something that I am really just too scared to do. Antilag is probably a better option for spooling, as you can use it anytime.
quote
The Bigger Cam is using more or producing less vacuum and my brakes aren't a good as they were before.
Doubtable... I have never lost anything significant vac wise with a turbo cam... NIC/XPZ shows a 2-3 inch loss typically, but usually a sane idle speed will fix even those huge cams... If you want extra vac from a start, pop it in neutral and rev it.. snap the throttle closed hard enough and you will suck down 4-6 extra inches of vac.
quote
Also, I will probably need at least a 3K Stall Converter when I upgrade the transmission.
Again, wont help you much at all.. might give you .05 more in the 60... but you will lose 2-5mph out the back side.
quote
What I want to know is what happened to the 200HP NA.. As I am pretty sure it wasabout 130HP NA...off Boost
Sounds like a mess... with a MUCH bigger turbo I always have full boost half way through first gear, the time leading up to that is usually still putting me in the 2.0 60ft range. With stock brakes and a little bit of pedal at a light... I can make 1-2 psi with a 3000 converter.
With my T3 turbo... it was full boost whenever I put the pedal to the floor, i never brake boosted really ever.
[This message has been edited by darkhorizon (edited 07-13-2012).]
Sounds like a mess. I told you you cant run a narrowband. I assume you are just drowning in fuel during PE?
Not sure what it is doing as I haven't tuned or logged anything yet. However, I do still plan on tuning with a wideband.
quote
If only it was that simple... A booster will not do anything for you, but a new adjustable prop valve will allow you to give alot more brake to the rear..... Something that I am really just too scared to do.
Ok, but will it hurt anything? I have one laying around and ready to install? I assumed that would help my brakes hold 2000RPM, although I never tried to hold a High RPM from the Launch before because the SC would break traction at anything over 1200RPM.
quote
Antilag is probably a better option for spooling, as you can use it anytime.
I am All ears..How do I do it?
quote
Doubtable... I have never lost anything significant vac wise with a turbo cam... NIC/XPZ shows a 2-3 inch loss typically, but usually a sane idle speed will fix even those huge cams... If you want extra vac from a start, pop it in neutral and rev it.. snap the throttle closed hard enough and you will suck down 4-6 extra inches of vac.
Vac is NOT a issue I just thought more Vacuum for better braking performance.
quote
Again, wont help you much at all.. might give you .05 more in the 60... but you will lose 2-5mph out the back side.
I want to keep my Stock Converter as I already said I was going to out trap everyone... But I need a quicker spool and I thought if the brakes could hold at 3000RPM then it should spool the turbo much faster as I would have 2-3 lbs before I launch. If antilag is the answer I am all ears..
quote
Sounds like a mess... with a MUCH bigger turbo I always have full boost half way through first gear, the time leading up to that is usually still putting me in the 2.0 60ft range. With stock brakes and a little bit of pedal at a light... I can make 1-2 psi with a 3000 converter.
With my T3 turbo... it was full boost whenever I put the pedal to the floor, i never brake boosted really ever.
Well, I think it spooled about half way though first gear.This is my first Turbo car and I am just so used to the SC insta boost. Would only 6psi cause it to spool much slower?
My 60ft seemed more like 3.0 to me as it sure as hell wasn't a 1.7. It definetly Aint' like my SC car....
I designed the System for around 1.8-2.0 60ft as I didn't want to break an axle with crazy hard launch but scheech.
I was like sooooo .... when is the turbo goi....Ahhh hell yeah
antilag is easy. Just toss a switch inline with the air temp sensor so that it unplugs when you press a switch (the safer way is to have it "plug in" when you hit the switch, but you cant watch IATs). When it plugs or unplugs, command -49 degrees of timing in the air temp spark table... Just dont press the button without your foot on the pedal at least 30%. The switch has to be manhandled at all times so I mounted mine on my shifter.. press to lag, release to go, so I could use it in any gear, any speed... You could wire it to your brake switch as well if you wanted to make launching it a bit less reliant on your skill to pop your finger off the button when you lift the brakes.
Why didnt you have your wideband hooked up during this? Why didnt you have the narrowband disabled? I am becoming a bit worried already, you could have severely damaged something like that.
