Finally got the car to the track with the new turbo setup this weekend. After fighting some CV joint issues and slowly creeping up on the power I set several personal bests. Setup consists of: 2001 L36 from a Buick regal with 130000km (80000 mi) installed 130lb PAC springs, zzp modified steel retainers, comp retainers, 3/8 pushrods replaced rod bolts with ARP Stattama ST1 cam (206/206 0.512 lift) double roller timing chain L26 aluminum intake with Northstar Throttle body & HV3 insert SFI balancer Injector Dynamics ID1000 injectors (approx 108 lb/hr) Other than that it is a stock L36, heads have never been off.
Powerlog for front manifold, stock wrapped crossover, zzp ported rear manifold Built a adapter from the stock manifold outlet to the T3 turbine flange, with a smooth transition exit for the Precision 46mm wastegate running a 9lb spring
Transmission is a 2002 4T65E (non HD) from a Venture van, zzp 300M input shaft, chromoly pump shaft, Triple Edge Perfomance 2.93 gear set and clutch packs, 3rd gear is a Z-pack. ZZP 3250 stall converter.
Turbo is a Precision billet 6262SP in a T3 0.63 housing, 3 inch stainless exhaust into dynomax muffler and out (total of about 2 feet including muffler)
Turbo feeds Precision PT1001 air to water intercooler, fed by Meziere 20GPM water pump from a Canton Aluminum reservoir (replaces battery on Cobra Mustangs), coolant is routed from intercooler to Fluidyne Cobra Heat exchanger and then returns to the tank.
Tires are 235/60R15 M/T Drag Radials
Car weighs 3135 lbs with driver.
This setup is far more drivable than my old M90 setup, it idles smoothly at stoich (id1000 injectors are awesome), no surging ever, just all around nicer to drive.
Started out running on the wastegate only, about 10lbs, first run was an idle launch, no brake boosting at all. Hit gas on 3rd yellow, 1.986 60’ and ran 12.01 @ 118.56 mph, a new best MPH.
Next run brought it up to 3lbs before launch and ran 1.751 60’ and 11.796 @ 117.37 MPH.
Turned on the ISAC boost controller, set to 13.5lbs (as I have been street driving it), forgot to let off of 2 step until 20-30 feet out, ran a 2.013 60’ and 11.364 at 126.38 MPH, a new best ET, and MPH.
Next run broke a CV joint.
Saturday morning got another CV, and a boot kit to fix my other good CV. Installed the new CV.
Again running street trim, 13.5lbs ran a 1.535 60’ (new best), and 10.622 @ 128.69mph both new bests.
Next run the new CV broke.
Installed my last CV, it has been in my car for 7 years, no failures, other than the clamp coming off on Thursday night. I had greased and re-clamped the inner that morning, and was hoping it would be good to go.
Set the boost controller to ramp the boost in over 1 second, and to run 15.5lbs boost, iced the intercooler, and staged. Ran a 1.640 60’, and 10.600 @ 131.48MPH. Boost came in a little too slow, but definitely more power on the top end, was eliminated from the race I was entered in on that run.
First test and tune run, set the boost controller to bring the boost in over 0.75 seconds and slightly more aggressive at the end of the ramp. Also set to run 18 lbs. 60’ was a 1.543, 10.307 @ 134.44 MPH, I was in shock, I was only hoping for a high 10 and maybe 130 MPH for the day.
Got setup for another run, iced the intercooler, set the boost for 19lbs, and made the boost ramp rate slightly more aggressive. Staged, brought the engine up on the 2 step, waited for 7lbs and launched. Car spun slightly then took off, ran a 1.499 60’, 6.594 @ 106.12 in the 1/8th and 10.263 @ 134.44MPH.
I was kind of hoping to knock FieroX off the top of the list on that run, I think it was 2002 the last time I did that, back when we were both running mid to high 12s, but it wasn’t to be LOL.
All in all, an awesome weekend, I am absolutely blown away by the performance of the car, after years of fighting the M90 setup for a tenth or two, being able to knock over a full second off of my previous best was amazing. I should have gone turbo back in 2004, when I first started looking at the turbo buick boards and seeing how well their cars run. And to top it off, drove it into the trailer and will be able to drive it to work tomorrow in high 10 second trim.
------------------ 1 of 2: Graphite Grey Pearl 87 GT 5 spd: 2.8L (Best 1/4 mile: 15.57@87mph, 2.0 60ft) 2 of 2: Ferrari Red 88 Formula/4T65EHD: 2000 L67 Motor (Best 1/4 mile: 11.9, 1.7 60ft) New Engine on the Road again! FTW Motorsports style! 312rwhp/332rwtq
Awesome man.....just awesome. Very nice run. Car look pretty planted and sounded excellent. I would also like to see some pics of your engine bay setup. Apparently a 3800 turbo IS the way to go in a fiero. From the looks of that run you should have a nine in that thing. I am also intrigued that you were able to do this on a Non- HD tranny. Watching that run makes me second guess my desires for swapping out a manual tranny in my fiero project. Car looks good too. How come it sits so high in back tho? IS that something you have done to aid traction? What's really amazing is that is a mostly stock block and bottom end. Buick 3800s rock.....Either way the car is hauling ass and thanks for representing the fiero with some good speed man. Well done. Peace
Pete
[This message has been edited by Pete Matos (edited 06-11-2012).]
Congrats! You probably set a record for # of CV's replaced in a weekend. Curious as to where they broke at - at the splined stub going into the wheel bearing?
Thanks everyone! It is more than I could have hoped for on the first weekend out with it. Definately some more left in it, just ran out of time.
Roll bar I have is accepted to 10.00 and/or 135MPH, beyond that I would be booted. Probably go to another track at some point and maybe see if I cant turn it up a bit more. I accidently ran 23 lbs on the street once, lots of power there, or I could put some good gas in it and run more than 16 degrees timing ramping to 20 at 6000rpm.
Trans has non-hd diff and 7/8 chain, 300m input, chromoly pump shaft, TEP input, and second clutch pack, Z-pack 3rd, stock 4th, TEP modified separator plate, valve body and channel plate, newer hardened 4th clutch hub, ZZP shift kit set on medium I believe. Built by me in my garage.
Car has 235/60R15 tires in back on stock springs, with monroe sensatrac struts, 205/50/15 on front with front spring cut 1 coil. I did this to try and keep the front end down. It used to wheelie pretty good with the M90, and with the open diff, I didn't want to make a sharp turn into the wall. The slight rake makes it harder for the front end to come off the ground, but it still seems to plant the tires pretty good. I am ramping the power in a bit on the launch to try and keep the CVs in it now, it would be nice to have something reliable to be able to put the power down sooner, mabey cut a 1.3x 60'...
I have never been more impressed by an engine than the 3800, this basically stock naturally aspirated V6 engine just took up to 20 lbs of boost for many many hard miles tuning, a full day on the dyno, and two day of track abuse, without a hint of trouble. I am very interested to see how long it holds together, as many have said that the L36 can't take boost due to the "lighter duty" rods and pistons. I plan on beating on this engine till it lets go, just to see how much they can take. From what I have seen elsewhere, I believe if the tune is on, it can handle alot more than people give it credit for. I will post though, if this engine ever fails, and I don't plan on taking the heads off unless the gaskets fail at some point.
Drivers CVs broke inside the inner joint. On one pass, it broke just before the 60' mark (ran a 1.7) and I was passed by the balls from the joint as I was coasting to a stop LOL. I now have the shafts that have been in the car for 7 years (Driver side) and 5 years (Passenger Side). I don't think the spare that I had or the one I bought were the right length, I used to break the passenger side all the time(between 8 and 15 passes), until I made one 1" longer, and have not had a failure since(stopped counting at 56 passes). The drivers side has been in as long as the transmission without issue, probably several hundred 1.5x 60 foot times and lots of street abuse, without failure. Hopefully with the power coming in a bit slower they will last and I won't have to worry about breaking at all. ------------------ 11.425 @115.60 Best 60' 1.543 seconds 3800 S/C 4T65E
New combo : Billet 6262 Precision turbo, PT1001 intercooler, ST1 cam, 130lb springs, comp pushrods, HV3, ARP Rod bolts, otherwise stock L36. 10.263 @ 134.44MPH
[This message has been edited by LFiero67 (edited 06-11-2012).]
Trans has non-hd diff and 7/8 chain, 300m input, chromoly pump shaft, TEP input, and second clutch pack, Z-pack 3rd, stock 4th, TEP modified separator plate, valve body and channel plate, newer hardened 4th clutch hub, ZZP shift kit set on medium I believe. Built by me in my garage.
Do you have custom axles or two Manual Fiero Axles?
Just goes to show how much better stock parts are compared to fierox parts.
Stock parts are pretty bad azz, but there are a lot of aftermarket go fast goodies in his build. The Stamatta turbo cams and Precision Billet Turbos are where the real difference is in their setups, IMO.
Stock parts are pretty bad azz, but there are a lot of aftermarket go fast goodies in his build. The Stamatta turbo cams and Precision Billet Turbos are where the real difference is in their setups, IMO.
The PT62 was half the cost of fierox's turbo... The cam is smaller than fierox's... the rest is stock compared to EVERYTHING is aftermarket on fierox's car (built motor, custom heads, custom intake, extreme exhaust, E85 vs pump gas).
The PT62 was half the cost of fierox's turbo... The cam is smaller than fierox's... the rest is stock compared to EVERYTHING is aftermarket on fierox's car (built motor, custom heads, custom intake, extreme exhaust, E85 vs pump gas).
Bigger is NOT always better. So i guess you will stop quoting go big or go home.
I never thought that I'd see a Fiero in the 10's but Darkhorizon proved us wrong. Now he has competition. That run was really POWERFUL but that had to be done with racing gasoline. Roll cage racing at its best, Makes me want to throw away my Gen V and get a turbo. My next 3800 will have to be turbocharged. BTW if you keep breaking CV axles, you might want to look into Mark Williams, Strange or Moser custom axles.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 06-11-2012).]
As stated I had a full tank of pump 94 octane, with one bottle of NOS brand octane boost. If I had race gas in it, the timing would have been more aggressive, and boost a few lbs higher.
------------------ 11.425 @115.60 Best 60' 1.543 seconds 3800 S/C 4T65E
New combo : Billet 6262 Precision turbo, PT1001 intercooler, ST1 cam, 130lb springs, comp pushrods, HV3, ARP Rod bolts, otherwise stock L36. 10.263 @ 134.44MPH
Too bad its non-HD. I upgraded to all bonneville parts in my car, would have recommended the same to fix axle issues. I fought axles (like you) with my manual setup, thats one of the benefits to the auto. Big axles, ftw.
I still have a factory stock cavi driver side axle...
Welllllll Lets not get too carried away here.... I guess I actually have to get up off the couch and finish my car up.
Yup Get er' done son!! We need a friggin' NINE here!!! I am really enjoying reading all of you turbo 3800 guy's successes and it is quite interesting to know that these are often mostly stock blocks!! Just freakin' amazing motors they are....peace
Want to build another? LOL! I need to do this to my car so bad! Do you have engine bay pics of the setup ? Congrats! Can you PM me just how much the setup cost you?
Just goes to show how much better stock parts are compared to fierox parts.
You guys sure find a way to bash on Ryan any chance you can get. Everyone chooses to go a different path. I have an exact build of a tranny like Ryan does only I don't have a 1" chain or cryo treated parts...why? Because I can and I did. If Ryan ran a 9.5 you guys would try to find a way to make it seem like if you guys did anything modified or spent more money that it would throw down some crazy numbers. Everyone does their stuff their own way and buys parts differently. It's always something with you guys I don't get it. I'm still Supercharged so does that mean I fail? Probably so, but guess what who cares. Congrats to everyone with 3800's, we are all on the same team here.
------------------ 1 of 2: Graphite Grey Pearl 87 GT 5 spd: 2.8L (Best 1/4 mile: 15.57@87mph, 2.0 60ft) 2 of 2: Ferrari Red 88 Formula/4T65EHD: 2000 L67 Motor (Best 1/4 mile: 11.9, 1.7 60ft) New Engine on the Road again! FTW Motorsports style! 312rwhp/332rwtq
Yeah well..... Like him or not, like his build or not, FieroX is STILL the reigning champ of 3800 speed..... altho this time he is really only so by a hair's breath. I think he will be toppled by this car or a few others here soon. Nobody is on top forever..... I do think he has some high quality parts going into the market now tho and do not see why anyone would not want to use them aside from price. For me I will be forced to make all my own stuff due to a little problem called CASH FLOW!! hehe Luckily I will have everything I need to make about anything I need to build my swap. A ways to go before I get there tho as the car needs work. This is very cool and it sure is nice to see another fast 3800 fiero on here pushing the numbers. I know Fierox is supposed to be redoing his car right now and I think we might all be surprised at the result once he gets it back together if his previous performances are any indication. Peace
I missed the part where we were talking about superchargers in this thread.
Yep I brought it up. The fact that we all do things different is an indication. All you turbo folk think the only way to go is turbo. Oh well, bring your pile of turbos down here and let's see how great that 5spd does on the street. I guarantee I would make you look silly.
Originally posted by Rare87GT: Yep I brought it up. The fact that we all do things different is an indication. All you turbo folk think the only way to go is turbo. Oh well, bring your pile of turbos down here and let's see how great that 5spd does on the street. I guarantee I would make you look silly.
Hehe awesome.....Now this I gotta see. PLEASE TAKE VIDEO WHEN YOU DO IT!! I know supercharged cars have great low and midrange but the vids of that car of his are all over youtube and he smoked a LOT of fast cars and ran with bikes..... Just sayin'...hehehe peace
Originally posted by Rare87GT: Yep I brought it up. The fact that we all do things different is an indication. All you turbo folk think the only way to go is turbo. Oh well, bring your pile of turbos down here and let's see how great that 5spd does on the street. I guarantee I would make you look silly.
Ha. Bring your **** box up here. I don't get any slower on the street. I am far out of your league.
Originally posted by Rare87GT: Yep I brought it up. The fact that we all do things different is an indication. All you turbo folk think the only way to go is turbo. Oh well, bring your pile of turbos down here and let's see how great that 5spd does on the street. I guarantee I would make you look silly.
Challenge....Dats what I'm talking about...Pinks anyone...
quote
Originally posted by Rare87GT: Yep I brought it up. The fact that we all do things different is an indication. All you turbo folk think the only way to go is turbo. Oh well, bring your pile of turbos down here and let's see how great that 5spd does on the street. I guarantee I would make you look silly.
quote
Originally posted by Justinbart:
Ha. Bring your **** box up here. I don't get any slower on the street. I am far out of your league.
....Turbo 3800 in the Fiero is definitely the way to go. I can't wait to see what mine can do.
