I thought what you were talking about was how unimpressive the launch and performance of his car was when run against that sportbike? hehehe....just kidding, actually while I used to go to events like that with hundreds of people standing around watching and cheering or booing about the cars that run, I once had a guy in a mega built purple barracuda with a massive blown motor in it take on all comers and somebody asked me to stand next to the car and keep it from shifting while he did a burnout. Before I could say hell no the car lit up and started shaking the ground and the folks standing behind it got a rubber shower hehehe... Yeah it is dangerous and I never ran where there could be a mother and kids popping out at any time. Even in Sacramento we used to go to the old airport service roads way outside of town on the closed roads that are out there. Again you almost never saw a car on there and if you did it was probably the police who spotted you from the freeway. Of course that was years ago and now that place is built up quite a bit and you have that new sports ampitheatre down there... hehe peace
After reading this post a bit more; if we look at all of the fastest 3800 cars including Zoomers 8.65 1/4 mile runs (Grand prix car) , they are all turbocharged and intercooled. Even with my mods and a new cam, I would not want to run any of these guys with my 3800SC. Why? because they are faster!!! The Eaton M90's are just not that efficient. If we were able to easily convert to an Eaton TVS or a Whipple we would spend thousands more but where would that get us?. That might help performance quite a bit but in the end the turbo (at less than 1/4 the cost) would still win out at the track, on the street or anywhere else. My money is on the turbocharged Fieros and in the future that is the direction that I will take.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
After reading this post a bit more; if we look at all of the fastest 3800 cars including Zoomers 8.65 1/4 mile runs (Grand prix car) , they are all turbocharged and intercooled. Even with my mods and a new cam, I would not want to run any of these guys with my 3800SC. Why? because they are faster!!! The Eaton M90's are just not that efficient. If we were able to easily convert to an Eaton TVS or a Whipple we would spend thousands more but where would that get us?. That might help performance quite a bit but in the end the turbo (at less than 1/4 the cost) would still win out at the track, on the street or anywhere else. My money is on the turbocharged Fieros and in the future that is the direction that I will take.
Dennis, That pretty much sums it up man. Turbo's have always been the most efficient means of making power and the 3800 is no exception. There is no parasitic drag and you control the boost and in the end when you consider what it takes to get good power from folks like ZZP with an intercooled and ported supercharger design the reality is that it is probably considerably cheaper to go turbo. It may not be as easy to install all of the stuff necessary but it is the way to go for speed as evidenced by the fastest fiero's on here putting down some serious power. Dunno what a 10.26 second run equates to in a 3k plus car as far as HP goes but it sure is damn fast by any measure for a car that you can drive to work!! Peace
P>S> who the hell is Zoomer? hehe
Pete
[This message has been edited by Pete Matos (edited 06-12-2012).]
09. It is also quite modded... Runs on E85. Rider has put 50k+ miles on 2 wheels, been 9's more than a few times on that bike as well.
amazing you can tell "what your bike would have done" from a dark video where the guy was 300feet away, with absolutely zero information.
Justin's car is an 11 second car right? That means AT BEST that was an 11 second pace run, but probably more considering it was less than optimal conditions. If that's a 9 second bike, and it was that close, then the rider either sandbagged or they couldn't / didn't ride for crap. My bike in stock form (which it isn't) is an 11 second bike. You're the king of imaginary numbers and calculations as far as speed and hp go DH, this should be easy for you to understand. A 9 second bike should have trounced him easily, my slightly modded over stock bike would have been a much closer race in theory because it's not a 9 second bike. If that bike is an 09 and it's heavily modded, with E85, then it's probably closer to 200hp, as it's right under 180hp in stock form.
So what are you saying, that the 9 second bike ran an 11 second pace, or that the 11 second car ran a 9 second pace? I'm sticking with my gut on this. The last car I've personally seen take on a larger bike like that, was a Lancer Evo pushing over 1000 hp. The bike didn't win.
[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 06-12-2012).]
Justin's car is an 11 second car right? That means AT BEST that was an 11 second pace run, but probably more considering it was less than optimal conditions. If that's a 9 second bike, and it was that close, then the rider either sandbagged or they couldn't / didn't ride for crap. My bike in stock form (which it isn't) is an 11 second bike. You're the king of imaginary numbers and calculations as far as speed and hp go DH, this should be easy for you to understand. A 9 second bike should have trounced him easily, my slightly modded over stock bike would have been a much closer race in theory because it's not a 9 second bike. If that bike is an 09 and it's heavily modded, with E85, then it's probably closer to 200hp, as it's right under 180hp in stock form.
So what are you saying, that the 9 second bike ran an 11 second pace, or that the 11 second car ran a 9 second pace? I'm sticking with my gut on this. The last car I've personally seen take on a larger bike like that, was a Lancer Evo pushing over 1000 hp. The bike didn't win.
I would be comfortable in saying that i'm a "10 second car" on the street, and the bike did win...
Went to another track yesterday. First run on wastegate was a 11.60 @ 115. Turned boost controller on to 18lbs. Same setup as the 10.2 run with better tune. When I launched something made a loud noise, figured I broke an axle. Car still drove so I pulled around and they let me go right back in. Launched again and same noise, but no forward motion now. Broke the input sprag in the transmission. Programmed first gear out so it would do a second gear start. Went back and made another pass. 10.9 @ 128 with a 1.7 60' leaving in second gear. This run stretched the chain and it is now knocking inside the case. I will have to fix it over the winter, no 9's for me this year.
------------------ 11.425 @115.60 Best 60' 1.543 seconds 3800 S/C 4T65E
New combo : Billet 6262 Precision turbo, PT1001 intercooler, ST1 cam, 130lb springs, comp pushrods, HV3, ARP Rod bolts, otherwise stock L36. 10.263 @ 134.44MPH
No, 300m input shaft, chromoly pump shaft, 7/8 2.93 gears, triple edge performance channel plate, valve body, input and second clutches, z-pack third, zzp 3250 converter. Stock trans can't take 1.4x 60' times. Ran a 4t60 for years running 1.7 60' times, once you hit 1.5x and lower it is really hard on trans.
No, 300m input shaft, chromoly pump shaft, 7/8 2.93 gears, triple edge performance channel plate, valve body, input and second clutches, z-pack third, zzp 3250 converter. Stock trans can't take 1.4x 60' times. Ran a 4t60 for years running 1.7 60' times, once you hit 1.5x and lower it is really hard on trans.
That sucks to hear about your transmission. I love seeing all these fast 1/4 mile times from turbo-3800s. What are your plans as far as the next transmission?
Hoping someone comes out with a reliable chain option. This is the second one I've stretched this year. Probably try the 2003+ ratcheting sprag. Dave at TEP doesn't think it's any stronger, but others have had good luck. Other than that I can't complain, the trans shifts nice and firm with Dave's mods and clutches. I don't think I've changed any clutches in 3 years, and the trans has been apart 3 times(sprag once before with M90, 4340 input shaft shattered, 7/8 chain stretched. I guess I could bring the power in slower and run 1.7 60' times, but that's not my style. I want to run all out all the time.
Excuse my ignorance but what "sprag" is breaking? I have never had any issues with anything trans related... and I just have a stock trans with a gmr 1 inch / 300m input.
Input sprag, one way clutch, over running clutch. It is what the inside of the input clutches are splined to. Transfers input housing power to the sun gear in first gear.. I never broke any trans components even on a bone stock 4t60 until I started running 1.5 60' times consistantly. With the changes in boost ramping and tune I had made I was hoping for a low 1.4 or even a 1.3 60' time. On my 1.49 60' it took just over 1 second to go from 7 psi on the line to 18psi commanded. New setup made 10 psi on the line and hit 18 psi in 0.3 seconds. The sprag had other ideas.
For sure. I'm happy though that my cv shafts held. The ones that were in the car have been good for 5 and 7 years, passenger and drivers respectively, and it's been running 1.5 60' times for that whole time. Probably several hundred passes and 10s of thousands of street miles as well. The ones I broke last time to the track were backups that we're only in because the clamp came off the drivers inner boot.
I am planning on taking lots of pics and making a thread. Just seems between work and kids and fixing the car I never have time. Can't neglect the family, I have a wonderful wife and two kids who came to the track with me on my wife's birthday, pretty awesome as far as I'm concerned. I will get to it though.
Sucks man. I was really hoping you'd crack off a 9.xx run! Posts like these... my F23 aint got a chance in hell. Maybe I should stick to road racing...........
------------------ Whodeanie built 1988 Fiero GT, loaded, 14k original miles, F23, built L67 swap, ST2 cam and matching valvetrain, PT67 bb turbo, w2a charge-cooled ----400-500whp?????? More mods when I get it back (interior, suspension, lighting etc). Stay tuned! 1987 Fiero GT Road Racer. 1st documented 3.4TDC swap- built in 1994. 5MT Isuzu, Quaife prototype LSD, HT Tubular A-arms, Fully poly & Heim jointed suspension, Custom 3 way adjustible sway bars, HT Bump Steer kit, Koin's, 320# springs, GA brakes, ZEX N20 and more! Under full restoration. 2007 Toyota Tacoma Double cab Prerunner SR5 Stock, and staying that way. 2009 KTM 250SX motocross bike. Modded and fun as hell! 2013 Can-Am Commander 1000 XT For the redneck in all of us! SideXSide's are sooooo fun!
Sucks man. I was really hoping you'd crack off a 9.xx run! Posts like these... my F23 aint got a chance in hell. Maybe I should stick to road racing...........
The hard AZZ launches break stuff. You will B fine unless you make ~8-10 psi off the line. My boost come in smoove and my trans loves it.
Just took engine and trans out of the car this weekend. Hopefully have it back together next month. Think the chain snapped on the way to the shop, went from no 1st or reverse to no gears at all, had to push it the last 3 blocks lol. Put some 255/60r15 M/T dag radials on the back, and figured out why it would only make 10 lbs on the line. Hoping for some 1.3 60' this year.
Went 1.49 with a 8lb launch taking 2 seconds to hit 18. Can leave at more than that now and hit target under 1/2 second, should help it move out. I've never been one to soften my launch on the account of part failure, have to find the weak links in order to fix them. Just need one good launch and a full pull to run my goal, then I'll probably de-tune it a bit and run low to mid tens from then on. My track is very sticky on the rules, so I can't exceed 135 mph or run 9s, I'll get away with it once, but that's it.
Always neat to kinda see 'track standards' work out in real life.
you usually run around a 1.5 60' and hit the end of the track in 10.2 this last time with the same setup do a 1.7 60' and end the track in the 10.90s. rule of thumb has always been told to me as "for whatever you can pull out of your 60' multiply by about 3 and thats what you will see at the end of the track'. Works out pretty close...neat
Corey were you running a full stack or short stack on the M90 setup? I have both but cant decide which way to go. Plus you dont have a FMHE kicking around you would part with? Spring is coming and its time to get the toys lined up for mods!!!
I was running the full size zzp intercooler with the M90. Still using my FMHE with the new setup. The frozen boost heat exchangers are relatively affordable, people seem to like them, but I've never used one to know how well they work. The M90 intercoolers put alot of heat into the water, it's hard to keep it cool, and you really need a reservoir for ice to get the most out of it at the track/100' races.
Trans is apart, and in generally good shape other than the broken zzp 300m input shaft from last summer. 2nd clutches will be replaced, but they have many years of hard shifts on them. Trans will be put back together with a GM Racing 1" chain and aermet input shaft without tcc oring groove. Hopefully it won't break. Precision is building me a non-lockup converter, but including the oringed turbine hub in case I go triple disc lockup in the future. If all goes well it should be ready to replace the stock trans I have in the car right now. It is really slow on 3 psi when your used to 15-18 lol, but at least I have been able to drive it.
My aermet shaft twisted before shearing at the o ring groove just like the 300m did. If there is a way to test the hardness of your shaft before you put the torque to it I would. I suspect that my aermet shaft was not hardened.
I have not twisted the two shafts I have broken. The 4340 shattered into about 8-10 pieces, and the 300m broke clean at the oring groove. I bought it from a reputable source, along with the chain/gears. I will be very, very surprised if I have any issues with these parts.
Just got a call from Precision, torque converter is built and will ship out today or tomorrow. Have to order a few parts from Dave at triple edge, and the trans will be going back together soon.
I ran low 11s for years on a stock trans. I wouldn't be afraid to hit it with 12psi.
My car is fine. I broke my tbss and my honda early this year so the fiero is last on the list. A fuel pump is on the fritz so I need to swap that out before I go and bury whats left of my tired transmission.
I have a spare 60mm turbo fiero with a stock trans... its slowly becoming part of the earth in my back yard...
[This message has been edited by darkhorizon (edited 04-22-2014).]
I have not twisted the two shafts I have broken. The 4340 shattered into about 8-10 pieces, and the 300m broke clean at the oring groove. I bought it from a reputable source, along with the chain/gears. I will be very, very surprised if I have any issues with these parts.
Just got a call from Precision, torque converter is built and will ship out today or tomorrow. Have to order a few parts from Dave at triple edge, and the trans will be going back together soon.
All three of my shafts have sheared at the o ring groove. None of them shattered. The way the aermet shaft twisted makes me think that it would have failed even with no o ring groove although that was where it ultimately failed. I'm running another 300m shaft carefully now and thinking that tuning the torque control to ease the shift is probably going to be the answer. I'm kind of giving up on the 1/4 mile, but I still want to see what an eventual dyno tune will show.
[This message has been edited by dratts (edited 04-22-2014).]
13 psi was about 430 rwhp, I don't think the stock trans would last long, car has lots of traction even on the street. My registration expired April 1st, and I decided not to renew until the good trans is ready. I have lots of little things to do, that won't get done if I'm driving it. Hopefully a few weeks, it will be ready to go. I'm counting on this input shaft to last, but will be putting some more tq management in on the shifts. Once it runs a 9.x, I'll have to back it down to run at my closest track. They are very sticky on rules, and I'm only legal for 10.00/135mph. Then I'll be interested to see how long the L36 keeps hanging in there.
13 psi was about 430 rwhp, I don't think the stock trans would last long, car has lots of traction even on the street. My registration expired April 1st, and I decided not to renew until the good trans is ready. I have lots of little things to do, that won't get done if I'm driving it. Hopefully a few weeks, it will be ready to go. I'm counting on this input shaft to last, but will be putting some more tq management in on the shifts. Once it runs a 9.x, I'll have to back it down to run at my closest track. They are very sticky on rules, and I'm only legal for 10.00/135mph. Then I'll be interested to see how long the L36 keeps hanging in there.
I've basically seen l36s last forever at that power level.
430 wasnt much for my stock trans as long as I wasnt trying to hang the front tires at stoplights and i pulled power on the shifts. My BOV squeaked when I shifted 2-3.
I'm sure it would live with around low 400 rwhp for a long time, but even 15.5 psi was over 131 mph at 3130 lbs, that's where I normally street drive it, most any hp calculator puts that over 500 rear wheel.
Great run man. Too bad you did not have a GTR lined up against you. I would love to see the look on one of those guys face after getting beat by a 10 second Fiero...
Picked up the torque converter today, along with the rest of the parts from Dave to freshen up the transmission. Should be up and running in the next few weeks, if the rain ever stops so I can drive it.
Billet front cover.
You can see the oring in the turbine hub in that picture. If I decide to put a triple disc lockup in, the converter is ready. For right now, there is no lockup clutch in this converter at all.
