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Building our Lemons/Chumpcar by DonP
Started on: 12-14-2012 05:34 PM
Replies: 283 (20643 views)
Last post by: wftb on 11-10-2018 05:03 PM
DonP
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Report this Post02-05-2013 02:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DonPClick Here to visit DonP's HomePageSend a Private Message to DonPEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Somewhere in this time that we were getting ready to get back to the track, Robert got married. Paula had officially been our fourth driver during that first race. Somehow or other, she didn't actually drive, or want to drive the car but filled the required fourth driver position. Rich and I didn't hear a thing about it until Robert showed up 5 days later, post-marriage. But Paula is sufficiently involved that we had full confidence that Robert would still be able to come out and play.

As the race date approached, we added a new driver to the team. My brother Doug and I had built and raced several cars way back in the day. Our last car was built based upon a How to build a stock stub car video package that Rich had created. Doug, a certified welder and full on equipment mechanic, could be a great addition to the team. In the last several years he has been the mechanical tuner on an IMCA modified team out of Oregon. The down side was that he lives over 470 miles away in Springfield Oregon.

We really had just a few smaller tweaks to deal with in getting ready for the next race in March Once we got the $900 entry fee taken care of ( $500 for the car and $100 for each driver) there wasn't too much else to deal with.

Out front, we wanted to work a bit on the cooling. During the September race, the temperature would occasionally peak at around 225 degrees. Not too serious, but we sometimes had to back off just a touch to drop to the 205 degree range we wanted. One of the things we should have done prior to the NASA HPDE day was to modify the nose just a bit. So now we took the time to trim up the aero nose in an effort to limit any restrictions. The original inlet folds in and extends for several inches. We took an air driven cut-off wheel and relieved the extra material, retaining just enough of the bend to maintain the strength.




You can see that our tow hook was attached to the bumper bars Rich had fabricated and welded to the original structure. Earlier, we had placed some expanded metal in front of the aluminum Champion radiator to help keep damaging debris out.




We were still relying on the holes cut through the front tub to move air up and out of the vents cut in the hood. The theory is still to prevent the air from stalling behind the radiator.



The 400 pound West Coast Fiero front springs finally arrived. They had been on back-order prior to our NASA track day. The guys at WCF have to modify the springs for proper fit. Rich ran them through the spring checker and found that they were about 15-20 pounds less than the advertised rate. Still, much stronger than the cut stock springs. We dropped them into place and checked the alignment. The nose was noticeable stiffer when we did the bounce test.

Robert may have taken a few days off, but the race was approaching quickly. So Rich bit the bullet and tackled the paint job. Robert had cleaned off most of the graffiti and the car was mostly white again. But we had still not followed through on out theme. We weren't going as whole hog as our original plans, but we still needed to do something. I was very surprised when I came in to find the car had changed.





We elected to leave the nose red, as it was originally painted. Good move as the red/white contrast makes it very easy to spot the car on track.


Doug traveled to Reno a couple days before we were scheduled to leave for the track. His intention was to change out the valve springs on the 2.8. Unfortunately the valve springs he brought with him were not correct and that job went by the way-side.



Yet another super sized driver in a tiny car.....................
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DonP
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Report this Post02-10-2013 09:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DonPClick Here to visit DonP's HomePageSend a Private Message to DonPEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Less than a week before our scheduled departure, things got complicated. Rich and I were heavily invested in promoting a racing series at the Reno-Fernley race track. On Saturday, 6 days before we were to leave, we learned about a motorsports focused show scheduled at the convention center the same weekend as our race. we had the chance to participate (by paying $1,600 exhibiters fees) and promote our event. Obviously we didn't want to miss our race opportunity. But business is business and cannot be ignored. We paid up for the show and spent a couple days editing up a video and printing posters for the event. It was decided that Rich would man the booth on Friday and Saturday. I would transport the car over the mountain and be one of the drivers on Saturday. After the 7 hour race, I would truck on back to Reno and Rich would head to Sonoma after the trade show. Rich would be one of the drivers for Sunday.

Okay, that's probably more than you were interested in, but it's relevant in showing how I got the worst of the weekend. My brother Doug was in town a couple days early in order to help with any last minute tasks prior to heading to the track. That worked out well as he could help us in setting up at the sports show. But more importantly, it meant he was already in the area as we were watching the weather turn nasty.

We had scheduled to leave early in the morning of Friday, March 23rd. Friday is the day we are required to be at the track in order to be tech'd for Saturdays race. But as we watched the weather coming in on Thursday, we decided that it was going to be a risky trip over the summit and we needed to leave early. It's not unheard of to have the pass into California closed due to weather conditions. I-80 passes over a little place called Donner Pass. Maybe some of you folks back east haven't heard of the Donner Party, the pioneering group for which the pass is named. The story involves a lot of snow, poor decision making and ultimately cannibalism. Now there's a State park on the campsite. Only in California.

Back to our story. Instead of leaving at 6:00 am on Friday, we left at 9:00 pm on Thursday. In the dark. To a light rain. All was good until we hit the state line. Really, exactly as we crossed the state-line, the snow started. Three miles later and I was flying blind. At 35 mph, I couldn't see the roadside and forward visibility was maybe 30 feet tops. So I was chugging up the hill in a king-cab Duramax - powered Chevy truck pulling a 28" enclosed, wind susceptible trailer in a white-out that was forecast to be getting worse as the night wore on. Worse yet, the only thing the radio could get was a country music station.

Robert drives from Reno, NV to Truckee, CA every day for his job. Usually he gets it done in about 30-35 minutes. I took nearly an hour and a half. We were still heading uphill from there. Fortunately, there was a break in the snowy weather a few miles beyond Truckee. That just left the ice. Longer story short. we made it early Friday morning.

Friday was dry-ish and hopeful. We eventually had everything ready and went through inspection. We had a plan to have Robert be the one taking the car through tech He's the youngest, smallest and most agile on the team. And as part of the tech session, they make the driver climb out of the car while they yell "fire" all in under 10 seconds. I had accidentally been near the car the first time and had to do it. No way, Robert was our candidate.





The tough part was when they judges spotted our homemade coilovers. All attention was then placed on how cheaty our car was. But we had equipped Robert with a copy of our "residual value" statement issued after the first race. In addition, he knew what we had done to build the coilovers. I nearly mishandled the whole thing by jumping in and defending our actions. But Jay Lamm, the main guy jumped in and cut me off. He commented that we could run but would be bumped up a class to the "B" run group. This was a faster class than the "C" class we had been running and meant we were even further out from winning our class. But we took it.

There were 172 Cars entered to compete this weekend on the Infineon raceway. Here are a couple of our competitors.



"Speedycop" is the middle Blue-man racer. He's a D.C. Cop who races several events all across the country. I believe he won the national championship after racing at ten (?) races last year. He's the guy who raced that tent trailer car I showed earlier. And his team brought a bowling alley built inside a trailer to one event. Rest safely knowing he's among those sworn to protect us (when in D.C. at least.) His team required almost two hours to remove the blue gook. They suffered slight chemical burns making it look like the had been out in the sun too long.



And a Miata was powered by this snowmobile engine. A pull-start snowmobile engine at that.

.


Here's a hint about how our weekend went.


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doublec4
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Report this Post02-10-2013 09:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Keep this thread going, I'm enjoying it!

It's too bad you got bumped up a class but you guys will still have a great time I'm sure.
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thesameguy
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Report this Post02-11-2013 05:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thesameguySend a Private Message to thesameguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ugh. My worst fear is Lemons in actual wet conditions. Half the track (more?) can barely stay on the track in the first place.

True story: While taking a piss at Infineon '09 two judges came into the can.

Judge 1: These California guys!!!
Judge 2: What is it with them?
Me: What's wrong with us?
Judge 1: You guys drive faster and crash harder than any other race we do.

YEAH!!!
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Report this Post02-11-2013 08:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Somebody needs RainX.

Yes, easily one of my most sought after threads when logging on.
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DonP
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Report this Post02-11-2013 09:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DonPClick Here to visit DonP's HomePageSend a Private Message to DonPEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks guys. I'm trying to keep a balance between telling racing stories and telling what we did to/with the car. Hope there's some entertainment value.

We bought the large economy size Rain-X bottle. Robert's experience led us to clean the window with lighter fluid before the rain-x treatment. Supposedly this really cleans the class to start. That was the theory and I'm not about to dispute it. Rich, as a dirt track driver has no experience with windshields. It did become hard to see. Thank goodness our somewhat klunky mounting of the stock wiper switch kept the intermittent function working. Some cars had nothing!

Don
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Report this Post02-12-2013 03:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DonPClick Here to visit DonP's HomePageSend a Private Message to DonPEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I thought we were far ahead of the game given that we had installed the washer/wiper controls back into the car before our March 2012 race at Infineon. Saturday came and, when we opened the hotel windows we were greeted with the sight of rain. Not totally monsoon-like, but more than you want for a race. Oh, well. At least we had an enclosed trailer. The car was stored away nicely over-night and the team members not driving had an assured spot out of the wet.

So now we had a little bit of car prep for the new conditions. We had already cleaned and Rain-Xed the windshield, but did it again. We pulled off the brand new Star Specs and reinstalled the used tires. They were harder but had a lot more of a tread pattern to move water and that seemed more important than compound choices. And we loosely wrapped the PCM in plastic wrap. It was bolted to the inside firewall behind where the passenger seat would be. This was too exposed to the elements and, not knowing how safe it would be, we sided with being cautious. We also mounted the GoPros in waterproof mounts.

Nobody was all that excited about driving in the rain with 171 other teams, so I drew the short straw.






It was exciting to hit the track. I fully realize that everyone has this image of Lemons and Chumpcar races being quasi destruction derby's. But the actual truth is that nobody goes out there with the intention of even touching another car. And I'm willing to bet that, given 172 cars on the track with potentially huge speed differentials and experience levels, we stack up fairly well with SCCA and NASA events with say 20-30 cars on the track. Of course the rain might change that.

Under caution getting ready to start.



That snowmobile powered Miata mixing it up with a BMW and an Opel GT.






Cool, we were doing , uh, okay. I had it sideways but not stopped a couple times. I believe my re-occurring error is in lifting while in a turn. Particularly in turns 2 and 3a, both of which occur while cresting a hill. Driving in the rain is a great learning experience. Doing so in a race isn't an appropriate time to have a learning experience. I did get called in for one of those sideways moments. I think it took 45 plus minutes to call me in because of the sheer number of spins on the track. All I can say is that it was a good thing we had all these softly sprung cars on the track.

All told, I ended up being out on track for nearly two straight hours. Every time I called in to see if the next driver was ready, they told me to keep going. They may have had the heater going in the trailer.

Eventually, a problem came up. For whatever reason, I managed the first hour and a half okay. But then the windows started steaming up. We had anticipated that with the engine heat in the back, we would not experience fogging problems. That theory went away after about 1 1/2 hours. I stuck it out a another 1/2 hour, but had to call it quits when it became too dangerous to continue.

I wasn't sure what we could do about the problem. But after I called in with the complaint, Robert and Doug jumped on working out a solution. Rain-X probably wasn't going to cut it. A rag on a stick would be awkward. But they found a potential solution in the equipment drawers. Rich uses a helmet blower/filter when racing his IMCA modified on dirt. Essentially, these are 12 volt blowers originally used as bilge blowers in marine applications. You may have seen nozzles incorporated into some racing helmets. These blowers are attached via a flexible hose to the driver's helmet. The air inlet to the blower is typically filtered. The driver is therefore force fed clean air into the helmet.



Since Rich was in Reno attending the trade show, we took it upon ourselves to appropriate his stuff. What Robert did was basically cram the outlet hose from the blower through a gap in the dash. He fixed it in place where the airflow was directed mostly at the driver's side of the windshield. We used the 12 volt connectors that had been wired in to power the radio to now power the blower. And we put the regular battery back onto the in-car radio.

It mostly worked. The picture does not show the full width of the windshield, but you can see a clearer spot starting in front of the driver.



Doug was the next driver. He had never driven the car and had never even seen the track other than watching a little bit of NASCAR racing on the track. Luckily, the windshield was clean (to start) and he entered the track under a full course yellow (to start.) On the down side, it was still raining. I placed his first lap under green on youtube. Remember he's new to this track and car. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IvO2MxjWR4

Now that I was no longer driving, I inherited the "communications director" job. That meant I had the radio and tried to stay in contact with the driver. After our first race a few months back, we realized how ineffective the handset mic/speaker combination was. So after some research, we upgraded to a full headset from Sampson Racing Communications.



We paid about $160 for the headset with the necessary adapter cable and it was worth every cent. At the first race weekend, we relied on someone hearing the driver through the standard mic/speaker. But it was too easy to get distracted and never even hear the driver sniveling about , well, everything. It was a great investment as we go forward. The down-side this particular weekend was that, as the spotter I wanted to sit high up in the grandstand. The problem was that if I sat under the overhang, I lost all communications. I had to sit several rows down and about six feet forward from the metal deck. In the rain. I got a lot of practice doing that stoic long-suffering spotter thing.

Doug managed to only get called out on two spins during his stint. Actually, the first incident was when he got hit. ( about 2:46 in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7cc1i7iDdQ it starts behind the Fiero Libre boys ) Given the situation, both parties are assumed to be guilty and he got a black mark. The bigger problem is, that once you spin three times in a day (recall I had one spin to my credit) you are either done for the weekend or have to sit out the next three hours. By this time, it was 2:51 and the races ended for the day at 6:00 So our option was to park for essentially the rest of the day. If you followed to this point, you do not recall Robert getting any seat time for the day. Ouch! So we spent some time putting the car away, fueling it and trying to get everything cleaned-up. We were done and sacrificed our remaining 9 minutes of track time. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4V7Cqq3oC8

Twenty minutes later they announced that, due to the sheer number of cars spinning off the track, and the fact they couldn't keep up with the resultant penalties, they would no longer count anyone out for too many (3) black flags caused by spins. Other violations, yes. Spinning no. Robert was already out of the game for the day and decided to look for a dryer track come Sunday. I had a long trip back over the hill to Reno, so off I went. My weekend was done. Rich, Robert and Doug had Sunday to play.
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Fierofreak00
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Report this Post02-12-2013 05:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fierofreak00Send a Private Message to Fierofreak00Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This is getting good! -Jason
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Report this Post02-12-2013 11:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SCCAFieroSend a Private Message to SCCAFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Rainex makes (well they used to anyway, have not checked recently) an anti fog product for the inside of the windshield that works really well. Apply it like the exterior rainex and the window stays clear.

An old racers trick was to rub some bar soap on the inside of the window and that is supposed to prevent the fogging up as well. Never tried that one though since I just used the rainex.
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DonP
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Report this Post02-12-2013 11:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DonPClick Here to visit DonP's HomePageSend a Private Message to DonPEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I figure someone will mention the old diver's trick of spitting inside the mask. Used to work. But A. I cannot produce enough saliva to do a windshield and B. I wouldn't really want to get into a car treated with enough spit to make it work.

Thanks for the tip about different Rain-X products. Here in Nevada, we just don't learn much about that type of product. I'll do my research.

Don
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Report this Post02-20-2013 09:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DonPClick Here to visit DonP's HomePageSend a Private Message to DonPEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Since I was not at the track for Sunday, I asked the guys to comment on their experience. It's taken awhile, but here is their story;

RICH

Saturday night I finished up the Off Road Show and headed to Sonoma. On the way over I called Don to see how the day went. The cell reception over Hwy 80 can be sketchy at times and this was one of those times. After a couple dropped calls I was able to get 20 seconds of good reception where all I heard was “IT RAINED. LOST 3 HOURS BECAUSE OF TOO MANY SPINS” and then Don was gone again.

When I got to the motel Doug was still up and he updated me on the “Day in the Rain”. No visibility, standing water, fogged up windshield, lost 3 hours of track time, it didn’t sound fun to me. I did mention to Doug that Robert had put Rain-X on the outside of the windshield and the anti fogging Rain-X on the inside of the windshield. We concluded that was the reason Don got 1 ½ hours of fog free driving before even the Rain-X succumbed to the wet conditions.

Sunday morning we awoke to cloudy skies, but it was not raining. When we got to the track everything was wet, wet, wet, but there was no standing water which was a big plus. We rolled the car out of the trailer and got Robert ready to hit the track first and then headed to the drivers meeting. The “Lemons Lecture” covered all the usual stuff with added comments about Saturday’s rain and the decision to eliminate the 3 penalty rule. We were also advised to take it easy as the track was still wet and the 3 penalty rule was back in affect.

Robert did his driving stint and then it was my turn. When I went out on track it was under a full course Yellow. By the time I got around to the track exit I was following a safety vehicle towing a car with another race car behind him. Both peeled off and went to the pits leaving no one to follow. NASA uses the entire track going down to turn 11 while Lemons moves turn 11 up closer to the Drag Race Tower. I passed the tower and saw 3 cones close together so I turned right. As soon as I turned I realized it was the next set of cones that marked the turn and I had already screwed up. I immediately got Black Flagged and I hadn’t even completed a lap in under Yellow.

When I got to the penalty box I faced a couple young judges working to make a name for themselves so I got yelled at about the Fiero being in the penalty box many times on Saturday and what the hell was I doing cutting the course??? I explained I was not here on Saturday and the last time I drove the track was at a NASA Track Day and turn 11 was all the way down. I knew that Lemons shortened up the course and I confessed to screwing up and turning too early. After my explanation, it was like the judge that was yelling at me flipped a switch and became human. He laughed and said he had done the same thing, gave me a warning and sent me on my way.

Robert, Doug, and I all drove twice on Sunday. I drove the last segment and with 15 minutes left in the day, the traffic had thinned out and there was no one in front of me. In an endurance race a driver rarely goes 100%, but with 15 minutes left and a clear track I had to bust off a couple hard laps which turned out to be the most fun part of the day for me.

With 3 hours lost on Saturday, we didn’t have a good finish but we had achieved our goal of being on track at the checkers. We loaded up and headed back home thinking about the next changes to the Fiero including putting the 3800 Supercharged engine in.

DOUG

Sunday was a ton better than Saturday. Saturday had been all about surviving in the rain. I had been hit in the side, immediately behind the driver's door. The car looked untouched. But when the guys opened the door, they commented that the door jamb, just above the striker post had been bent and now had a crease in it. The door still closed, but had to be given a little extra push. So Saturday was a little less than we had hoped for.

I had actually spun a couple times on Saturday. I didn't know that there was any penalty for having to many spins. So my goal on Sunday was to keep it clean and straight. Robert had missed the opportunity to drive on Saturday, and I wanted to make sure I didn't contribute to another situation. Besides, this was the second time I had drove the car and the second time actually on the track. It was all much better. And I had a $100 bill in my driver's suit to erase a penalty. The Lemons guys let you buy your way out of a minor offense with a $100 donation to the Speedway Children's charity. I wasn't going to get us set out again.

Robert got ran over by a Jeep. (this jeep. - DON)

The most interesting part of the day, other than getting in a much better race, was watching Rich during his final run. He was naturally stuck in a group of cars all of whom seemed to be running close times. After maybe 6-7 laps in the pack, he worked his way to the front coming around turn 7 way at the far end of the track. What was interesting is that he entered the series of S's as he had for the last several laps, he was in the front but with several guys hot on this tail. And even from the far end of the track you could see that he realized the position he was in. He absolutely buried everyone. In one of those weird way that thing happen, he suddenly got very fast and yet seemed to slow down at the same time. In reality, with an open and unobstructed track he got a lot faster but also very smooth. The smoothness made him actually appear slower. But by the end of the S's, he had opened up over 100 feet on a group that had been sticking with him. The next lap was also fairly open and he just came flying through the section. Rich has been racing since the early to mid-seventies. And he has been a track champion based in part on his smoothness. He showed some ability on Sunday.

We didn't have any problems and were running when the checkered flag flew.

ROBERT

I didn't have a chance to drive in the rain on Saturday. But as the first driver on Sunday, I can say that Rich is full of it when he said there was no standing water. At the start of the day, there was definitely standing water and as it dried, more was dragged back on by cars going off track. It was still fun, but very stressful. My day was mostly uneventful. I did swap ends going through the esses early on. A car in front of me had gone off and back on and dragged a mess back with him. I was caught by surprised and did swap ends. I suffered the abuse of the judges in silence and headed back onto the track.

The worst part of the day was getting ran over by a Jeep. There's a Jeep painted up in Petty blue that has been to several Lemons races. He seems to actually finish pretty good. I was sharing the track with him through turn 2 of the track. We went side by side into turn 3A and I waved him by. The most polite thing I can say is that he might have a depth perception problem. He had not come even close to clearing my car when he turned into me. I had Petty Blue paint across the top of the passenger door extending onto the top of the right fender. He flat ran over the top of me! Damage wise, the car came through pretty good. We were scrapped up and had the paint scars. The worst part was he got away with it. I don't think he even got called in. I guess my lesson was to not give way or cooperate.

Even with the hit and run Sunday was much better. I actually got some track time and the track was much better than Saturday.


DON
Okay, the final story of the weekend is that with 171 cars entered in the race, we finished 137th. Remember, we lost 3 hours on Saturday. So I cannot feel that's too bad.

The Fiero Libre boys finished in 156th place. I don't yet know their story. At the close of Saturday's racing, I believe they were 5th or 6th within their class. and 95th overall.

If you want a better picture of the day, check out the wrap-up video posted by the LeMons organization itself!
Lemons in a nutshell http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHOiNrpqpik

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Fierofreak00
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Report this Post03-10-2013 08:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Fierofreak00Send a Private Message to Fierofreak00Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Cmon' Uncle Don! Where's the rest of the story? I'm still on the edge of my seat waiting for the continuation! -Jason
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Report this Post03-11-2013 07:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DonPClick Here to visit DonP's HomePageSend a Private Message to DonPEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for the encouragement. As much as I'm enjoying the writing, "Real Life" is kind of getting in the way. That and going to the Las Vegas NASCAR races last weekend. I'll make an effort to continue this story by the end of the week, if I can find time. We have our next race in less than two weeks and the engine and entire cradle are not mated to each other, much less to the car. ....

Again, glad someone is interested.

Don
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Report this Post03-11-2013 07:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fierofreak00Send a Private Message to Fierofreak00Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Your are truly welcome, I do honestly enjoy your story telling ability.
And I ravenously look forward to each installment, like a parched man roaming the desert looking for a drink of water. -Jason
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Report this Post04-06-2013 01:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ManMadeChickensSend a Private Message to ManMadeChickensEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You guys rock! I'm a week out from our next race at Portland, and it's really getting me "in the mood" by reading through your thread. Keep up the good work! Oh, and don't fear the wet stuff falling from the sky, we race almost exclusively in it!
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Report this Post04-20-2013 01:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DonPClick Here to visit DonP's HomePageSend a Private Message to DonPEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So how did the Portland weekend go? I love that track, though most of my experience there was pre-front chicane.

So what tire pressures are you guys running? I know you are running street tires as per the rules.
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Report this Post04-20-2013 04:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DonPClick Here to visit DonP's HomePageSend a Private Message to DonPEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

DonP

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So what was our take-away from the March race? We had finished in the top 80% and lost three hours of on-track time. Most (short-sighted) folks would probably get caught up on the three hours of lost track time and say that we needed to reign in some of the driver "exuberance." To that we collectively give a loud raspberry. All of the racers out there instantly recognize, as did we, that the real answer is more horsepower! And torque! (insert that Tim Allen testosterone laden grunting noise here.)

It was always our intent to do an engine swap into the Fiero. Within two weeks of purchasing the Fieros to race, we found a '94 Buick Park Avenue Ultra with a 3800 Supercharged engine. The car had something in the neighborhood of 130K on it. It drove out well and we figured we were good to go. The owner was asking $900, we explained that we were constrained on how much we could spend on a $500 Lemons car and offered $450. His rather slow response was " uh, that would be half." Yup. Once he talked with his mom who wanted the car out of her garage, we drove the car onto the trailer and headed home. I can hear the comments now. But we didn't know anything about series 1 or series 2 engines. We had just read that the 3800 SC was a great swap.

Our next race was set for September at Thunderhill Raceway http://www.thunderhill.com/ in Willows Ca. Rich and I had checked out the Lemons race at Thunderhill as spectators the previous year. We were both of the opinion that Thunderhill was a faster track than Sears Point. It looked to have much more sustained high speed portions. If we were going to up the horsepower, this is where it would have the highest payoff. So we had about 6 months to accomplish the swap. Cool, that means we should be done with plenty of spare time.

Some photos of our trip to Thunderhill can be found here. http://s1222.photobucket.co...w/Thunderhill%202011

But what could we do in the mean time? That right, let's harass the local SCCA boys and go auto-crossing! They now call them SOLO events. The last time I had done an autocross was in maybe 1990? I was driving a 1969 428 Cobra-jet powered Mustang Mach I, probably one of the most feared cars on the auto-cross circuit. Feared because it was sliding sideways out of control, not feared because it was competitive.

A couple weeks after we got back from Sonoma/Sears/Infineon, the Reno-SCCA (http://www.renoscca.org/ ) held an "annual tech" session where one can get your car inspected for the year. So we reinstalled the passenger seat and headed down to Summit Racing, the tech site. It was a little bit confusing because we didn't really fit any of the 412 established classes. But of course we weren't aware of any of these 412 classes as spelled out in their 820-page General Competition Rules and Specifications rule book and hadn't built the car to any of their specs anyway and why would you build a car with a full-on cage and run those silly mud and snow tires and are you sure you're in the right place?

We eventually got it sorted out. Better yet, we learned that there was an open track day the next weekend at the Reno-Fernley raceway. Cool! Let's do that as well as auto-crossing. Reno-Fernley Raceway http://www.renofernleyracetrack.com/ is our home track by virtue of the fact that it's only 1/2 hour from home. It's also a track that Rich and I were trying to promote a few races at. I've raced at the track once during a 24 hours of Lemons race in '11. Rich has only been on the track with my Ford Explorer while discussing our race promotions. So actually participating in the Reno-SCCA PDX (Performance Driving Experience) with an instructor was a good idea.

Rich and I both participated. He was in one run group and I was in another. Because of the difficulty in getting in and out of our car ( a recurring theme with instructors) we kept the same instructor strapped into the car for the duration.





Because of a shortage of instructors, and the fact that we had encouraged them to find someone on the short side, we ended up with the rather nervous gentleman sitting in the left seat. We learned his normal role was as a mechanic on a "race team." Still, he kept us heading in the right direction with some helpful input. To his credit, never once did he attempt to grab the steering wheel as the NASA instructor had.


An even better outcome of having our designated instructor was more important to us. Another instructor ended up signaling his driver to the left side of the track. He then opened the door and proceeded to vomit. Outside the car. Inside the closed face helmet. We hear this isn't an unusual occurrence with the instructors.

Our instructor was a bit concerned when he watched the gauges in front of his position.



The oil pressure gauge has a tendency to drop precipitously in hard corners. And the red idiot light comes on to make sure the driver is aware. He got to pointing excitedly at the gauge and we had to reassure him it was alright. No, the gauge was accurate, the pressure was indeed dropping. We were just in the process of blowing up. Don't concern yourself. We're working on a replacement engine.

A few freeze frames from our GoPro camera can be found here. http://s1222.photobucket.co...lideshow/RFR_4-21-12
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Report this Post04-24-2013 03:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DonPClick Here to visit DonP's HomePageSend a Private Message to DonPEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The following weekend, at the end of April, Robert got his chance to try auto-crossing. In addition to classroom instruction, The SCCA has an instructor ride along with the driver. In this case, we pulled Rich McSwiggen, one of my co-drivers in the '77 Mustang during the 24 hour race at Reno-Fernley. Rich also took top honors in his Solo run group the previous year in his MR2 Spyder.

I think that the solo events really brought out the fact that the Fiero needs a quicker steering rack. A month earlier, at Sonoma, Doug had griped about the slow steering in the chicane. He expressed the comment that we needed faster steering. But we all recognized the fact that to do this, we would need to adapt in some sort of power steering. A year later, as I'm typing this, we are in the process of investigating adding power steering with the intent of including a steering quickener.

We used the older, harder Direzza DZ101 tires. Because of the rain at Sonoma the previous month, we still have not actually run the newer, softer Star Specs. We decided to keep those tires fresh for the September race at Thunderhill.











And in one case, Robert definitely "over-rotated" the car. He sstarted this pointing in the other direction.



I have also posted a video on Youtube. A little long, but we managed to capture the spin at about 2:43.
http://www.youtube.com/watc...HqE&feature=youtu.be

Some random shots of the afternoon are found here.

http://s1222.photobucket.co...lideshow/Solo%204-29

Of particular interest (to me) was this Corvair running a small block in the back

[IMG]http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd483/DonP87/Build%20Lemons%20Car/5586570c-b477-46a9-b04b-2a92319149e0_zps2d31af50.j pg[/IMG]

Paula, Roberts wife and an official team entrant, though not an actual driver, to our first races rode along with Robert on her first and possibly last ride in the car. The video shows her looking down at the floor the whole time.
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Report this Post05-14-2013 07:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DonPClick Here to visit DonP's HomePageSend a Private Message to DonPEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by katatak:

Nomex Kilts - LMAO!
Did you consider using a "Quickener"? Something like this:


Thanks in advance!

Pat



Well, it looks as though I have prevailed on this point. We are indeed going to be adding a steering quickener much like that shown above. It's part of a complete rebuild of the front cradle. Power steering and and tubular control arms will accompany the steering quickener. Rich has been doing the design/math stuff the last couple weeks and I'll do a complete write-up as it progresses.

And I just ordered a pair of Rodney Dickmans new-design front '88 hubs. http://rodneydickman.com/ca....php?products_id=318 I'll be very excited to see how they work out under race conditions.
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Report this Post05-14-2013 08:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fierofreak00Send a Private Message to Fierofreak00Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That does look like a cool unit, I hope it works like you want it too. -Jason
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Report this Post05-14-2013 10:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DonPClick Here to visit DonP's HomePageSend a Private Message to DonPEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
We had an earlier discussion about using a steering quickener. Most of our past (and present) track cars use steering quikeners. And we like them. The sticking point was the lack of power steering. After reading a couple threads, we decided to jump on it. At Infineon/Sears/Sonoma, the Lemons use a very tight jog on the back straight. It takes more than a single turn to manage it, and we just cannot get it done quickly enough at this point. The quickener will help enormously. That and catching the rear end or autocrossing.

We're likely going to end up with the Coleman Racing Product quickener in 1.5:1. http://www.colemanracing.co...uickeners-P4753.aspx
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Report this Post07-07-2013 01:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DonPClick Here to visit DonP's HomePageSend a Private Message to DonPEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
September in Willows California promises to be HOT. We come over the hill in Reno, where the temperature may be 101. Dropping into Sacramento at 92 is like walking into a furnace. You know how they talk about a "dry" heat like in Arizona? Typically it's "it might be deathly hot, but it's a dry heat, so all's good." Forget that dry heat crap when you are in the Sacramento Valley. Dry heat is just a nebulous concept. There's a reason that agriculture is big business in this part of California.

Finding a way to deal with the high temperatures for long stints was near the top of our list.

Historically, race cars don't have air conditioning. Okay, I heard some do running races like LeMans or Sebring. But that's not the level we're talking about. What are people doing? Cool Shirts! http://www.coolshirt.com/coolshirt-racing.html




What these are is basically T-shirts with plastic tubing sewn into the shirt. The tubing snakes around your body and is connected via more tubing to a smallish ice chest. Cold water and ice are in the ice chest along with a small 12 volt pump. Turn it on and cold water is pumped from the ice chest, through the tubing sewn into the shirt, and back to the ice chest, bringing down your core body temperature. They actually are used in a variety of situations such as by firefighters and some military applications.

The base system can also be expanded to provide cool airflow into your helmet. A small air pump (remember Rich's helmet blower that we adapted to use as a defrost system?) drives air through a plenum inside an ice chest where it's cooled prior to being directed to the driver's helmet. Bunch more bucks, and Rich is the only one on the team with a helmet designed for a cooler, so we stopped looking at those.



It just so happens that Davis Motorsports of Reno http://www.shop.davismotorsportsofreno.com/ is one of the country's largest dealers for Cool Shirt line. And Rich Davis is maybe three blocks away and we've done business with him. It also just happens that a starter system with a single shirt starts north of $400. And each additional shirt for each driver lists at about $125. And there are several places that talk about building your own system.

Come on, we built our own cage, certainly we can build our own cool shirts. What could go wrong?

I started by looking around on the 24 Hours of LeMons forum for tips. I know that several teams have built their own units. I'm going to give you couple links to threads talking about DIY cool shirts. It gets a bit confusing because the three system manufacturers mentioned Cool Shirt, FAST, and UltraChiller) use different connectors. Actually there are two connector types which seemed to be differentiated by using plastic latches versus metal latches. There is some ability to mix and match between the two styles. Here's a quote from the lemons forum.

" The metal catch/release is narrower than the plastic catch/release. Therefore the grove on the female side of the connector is narrower for the connectors with metal catch/releases.
The metal catches will work with either of the female connectors.
The male side designed for a metal catch will not work with a plastic female catch. The plastic catch ring of the female side is diametrically to large to fit in the grove for the catch.
Cool Shirts and Ultra Chiller shirts use the plastic catches, FAST shirt uses the metal catches. We found this out at ECR last year."

That's part of a thread found here http://forums.24hoursoflemo...ewtopic.php?id=10380
we also read this thread http://forums.24hoursoflemo...ewtopic.php?id=10071
and we found a nice write-up here http://roocox.blogspot.com/.../diy-cool-shirt.html
http://forum.specmiata.com/...pic;f=2;t=004738;p=0

If you do not want to read through all of that, I'll cut to the end and tell you what decisions we made. First of all, we decided that sewing our own shirts was out. so we elected to purchase our shirts from Ultrachiller. http://www.ultrachiller.com/catalog/ These were less expensive than the Cool Shirt t-shirts. Rich elected to purchase the cooling vest from Cool shirt. http://shop.coolshirt.com/c...1845.102041.5232.0.0
I really spent more than necessary on the actual cooler box. I purchased the Engel cooler/dry box as used by Cool shirt. https://www.engel-usa.com/products/cooler-dry-box They nice features were the latches, seal and strap guides.
I elected to use the Colder Products connectors valved (dry-break) connectors throughout. I purchased most from the Wilson company http://www.wilson-company.com/ but also ordered directly from Colder Products. http://www.colder.com/ We used the PLCD line of connectors and basically followed the layout found here.

And we used a Rule brand bilge pump rated at 500GPH. http://www.amazon.com/Rule-...mp-500/dp/B000O8B7VO these got the most thumbs up in the build threads we read.




The bulkhead fittings used to actually go through the ice chest were designed for aquariums. Much cheaper than metal or industrial fittings. They are the Lifegard Aquatics P/N R270900.

And to top it off, I visited the dollar store and found a wire rack that could be modified to fit around the pump to protect it from being damaged by the ice sloshing around during the race. We welded up a retaining bracket to be bolted to the floor. And we were ready to go.



It works wonderfully. It feels as though ice water is being poured down your back and I usually cannot keep it on constantly but must cycle it on and off. Out of sequence, but I will say that at Buttonwillow with air temps at 109 and track surface temps hitting 145, our drivers loved the shiirts.

I'm currently working on a smaller version to fit inside the front trunk for those track days or autocross events where a passenger seat might be used.

[This message has been edited by DonP (edited 07-07-2013).]

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Report this Post07-08-2013 07:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DonPClick Here to visit DonP's HomePageSend a Private Message to DonPEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Rich has pointed out that I left out the actual tubing in discussing our (mostly) DIY cool shirt build. Cool Shirt and FAST http://www.fastraceproducts.com/index.php offer insulated tubing. But if I remember correctly this runs in the neighborhood of $80! Way too much for us to justify. McMaster-Carr has a ton of different styles of tubing http://www.mcmaster.com/#st...ubber-tubing/=njdnq8 but that was just too confusing. Here we come Lowes. We picked up some clear tubing in 3/8" ID. The clear tubing lets us see the bubbles moving and gives assurance that it's actually moving. And it's a ton cheaper.

We actually used the system a couple weeks ago at Buttonwillow outside Bakersfield, CA. The driver loved it. The crew envied it. So my current project is to build another system to be kept in the trailer. It's hard to motivate the next driver to get suited up in preparation for a driver change when the ambient air temp is 105 degrees. And since each of our crew is also a driver and has a shirt already, we will be able to stay cool while waiting.

The capitalist in me sees the possibility of a fleet of rental cool shirts for the spectators. Hmmmm.
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Report this Post07-09-2013 09:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by DonP:

Rich has pointed out that I left out the actual tubing in discussing our (mostly) DIY cool shirt build. Cool Shirt and FAST http://www.fastraceproducts.com/index.php offer insulated tubing. But if I remember correctly this runs in the neighborhood of $80! Way too much for us to justify. McMaster-Carr has a ton of different styles of tubing http://www.mcmaster.com/#st...ubber-tubing/=njdnq8 but that was just too confusing. Here we come Lowes. We picked up some clear tubing in 3/8" ID. The clear tubing lets us see the bubbles moving and gives assurance that it's actually moving. And it's a ton cheaper.

.


Could insulate with the cheap stuff from the hardware store too. Maybe cut in short lengths so it bends better.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 07-09-2013).]

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Report this Post07-09-2013 12:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DonPClick Here to visit DonP's HomePageSend a Private Message to DonPEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I looked at the home plumbing insulation stuff. But my thoughts were that bending the insulation would likely kink the tubing. Never thought of cutting it into shorter lengths. DOH!

Thanks for the thought, I'll probably steal it and claim it as my own.
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Report this Post07-09-2013 12:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for aaronkochSend a Private Message to aaronkochEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
These are cheap, run on 12v, and available all over Craigslist and Ebay.. They also use the leakless quick connects that are really common and cheap in the medical supply industry. Just FYI if you run into an issue.

Good luck out there!
------------------


Build thread for my 88 + 3800NA swap

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 07-09-2013).]

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Report this Post07-09-2013 12:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickTRoofSend a Private Message to PatrickTRoofEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wow! You guys do not mess around! I want to turn my '89 Volvo wagon into a Lemons car, and this thread is very inspiring!
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Report this Post07-09-2013 01:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DonPClick Here to visit DonP's HomePageSend a Private Message to DonPEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A Volvo Wagon!? Something like this?



Or, as believe it was run last year, as the Swedish Bobsled Team.



It ran pretty good every time I saw it.
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Report this Post07-09-2013 11:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickTRoofSend a Private Message to PatrickTRoofEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by DonP:

A Volvo Wagon!? Something like this?



Or, as believe it was run last year, as the Swedish Bobsled Team.



It ran pretty good every time I saw it.


My old wagon is a 240.

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Report this Post07-10-2013 12:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaredmurray88Send a Private Message to jaredmurray88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you guys are still having fogging issues on the winshield try some old school barbasol on the glass. Just wipe it on and off like windex. DO NOT USE THE GEL. It also works good on goggles and such.
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Report this Post07-10-2013 02:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DonPClick Here to visit DonP's HomePageSend a Private Message to DonPEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Barbasol? Okay, I was born in '59, but I still had to look that one up. Might have something to do with the fact that the last time I was clean-shaven was 1978.

We've been luck and not needed a defroster since that rain outing. But I have a couple blowers ready in the race trailer just in case.

Barbasol. There's gotta be a ton of that type of tip out there.
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Report this Post07-10-2013 02:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DonPClick Here to visit DonP's HomePageSend a Private Message to DonPEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

DonP

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Arron, I've seen a couple posts on the Lemons forum touting those coolers. They are cheap and readily available. But you know how it gets to be sometimes. You just gotta build something because you can.

BTW, I had been following your build thread. Really wish I recalled this post. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...L/000133-7.html#p243 We got bit by this on a recent race weekend. Just killed us! But that's a story for later in this saga.
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Report this Post07-10-2013 01:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Bobsled team, ... thats hilarious!
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Report this Post07-10-2013 06:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DonPClick Here to visit DonP's HomePageSend a Private Message to DonPEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

Bobsled team, ... thats hilarious!


And the helmets (on the roof) were mounted on some sort of springs. So they Bobbled! It was neat.
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Report this Post07-11-2013 04:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DonPClick Here to visit DonP's HomePageSend a Private Message to DonPEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Once again, we returned to the Reno-Fernley road course for an SCCA track day event. This time Rich and I had a new instructor, Sam McCord. Sam has been vintage racing for many years in his Lotus Europa. I know nothing about the different models or variants of the Europa, but I believe his is a late 60s car with a Ford power-plant.



Sam was kind enough to let me take a ride as passenger in the Lotus. I thought the Fiero was tight - no way. The Europa was extremely tight and felt very fragile. But Sam was not even remotely shy about bouncing off the turtles. More importantly, Sam was also a good instructor and both Rich and I came away feeling much better about our track experience.

If you have an opportunity to do a HPDE track day with someone playing the role of instructor. I would really recommend biting the bullet and purchasing a two way, in-car communication product. We purchased a chatterbox device. http://chatterboxusa.com/ this box allowed for clear communication between driver and instructor even in a loud race car. If you are in a stock street car it may not seem necessary, but the helmets change everything.

I have some general photos of the day at http://s1222.photobucket.co...7-1-12?sort=3&page=1 But this guy http://s1222.photobucket.co....jpg.html?sort=3&o=3 was another local car built for LeMons racing. Jay does advanced carbon fiber construction, and may be the only LeMons car with a fully carbon-fiber hood.

I made the comment that both Rich and I came away happy with our instruction. Truth be told, I had a lot more track time than Rich. I ran on Saturday, Rich ran on Sunday. But where I got a full day in, Rich's experience was cut a bit short. If you read a couple posts up where I talked about our previous track day, you'll find where we reassured our then instructor that the engine was in the process of blowing up. We finished that day and one or two auto cross days, but failed to finish our next track day. I have posted a 4-5 minute video showing the engine letting Rich down after completing a lap on-track. http://youtu.be/TkHR0jUq27s

Not to worry. This happened on July first, our next race was at Thunderhill in September. What's the problem? We just needed to step up our 3800 SC swap.

Because I can, I've also posted an SCCA promo video we did for the RenoSCCA group. Not really Fiero related, but I think it's fun. We really enjoy working and playing with the SCCA-Reno guys and gals. We have learned a lot from some, particularly those who can kick our butt on track. http://youtu.be/sYPP3ufxtDQ
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Report this Post07-25-2013 04:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula OwnerSend a Private Message to Formula OwnerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by DonP:
We did remove the parking brake hardware off the rear disc setup.

Not sure I'd do this. I haven't read the entire thread, so maybe you've addressed this. But removing the park brake hardware can cause problems.

If the park brake actuating levers (on the back of the calipers) are removed, the screw mechanism will then be allowed to move inward. If it moves inward too far, it will create a leak, maybe enough to prevent pressurization on the rear.

Also, according to GM, periodic use of the park brake is needed to keep the rear brakes adjusted. If you're inspecting and adjusting after every event, this should be no problem. Personally, I'm not sure about this. From my understanding of this system, I think it should adjust without applying the park brake. However, I think that proper adjusting will require that the park brake actuating levers be in place, as well as the return springs that keep these levers pushed toward the rear of the car.

A side note: You can use front calipers on the rear, and COMPLETELY eliminate any and all problems from the park brake system.

Question for you. Are you able to lock the rear wheels? I have a Formula with the same brake pads. I'm able to lock the fronts, but not the rears. My park brake works fine, clamping on both rear calipers, so I'm confident that they're properly adjusted. I'm concerned that my proportioning valve may be faulty.
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Report this Post07-25-2013 06:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thesameguySend a Private Message to thesameguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey Don -

FWIW, our first race in Reno Fernley we used a homemade cool shirt. We used nylon tubing from McMaster-Carr, sewed it to a cheap Hanes t-shirt using IIRC medical stitching, and used a 12v potable water pump from an RV supply place to pump iced water of a small cooler from Walmart. The whole thing cost about $80, the bulk of which was a $40 or $50 pump and a $15 cooler. That shirt was like waking up to a bucket of water. After 20 minutes of driving, when you start to get hot, the water in the cooler has gotten VERY cold. Flip on the pump and get ice water across the chest! You've got a choice about flipping it on and off again to cool down, or leaving it running to help avoid the shock next time you get hot.
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DonP
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Report this Post07-26-2013 06:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DonPClick Here to visit DonP's HomePageSend a Private Message to DonPEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by thesameguy:

Hey Don -

FWIW, our first race in Reno Fernley we used a homemade cool shirt. We used nylon tubing from McMaster-Carr, sewed it to a cheap Hanes t-shirt


We considered doing just that. But Troy on the LeMons forum made a compelling point about the workmanship that has to go into making a shirt. And the real fear of giving me or any of the other guys a needle A.K.A. a "sharp implement of destruction," far outweighed the $90 per shirt that ultrachiller was charging. Having said that, Rich's Coolshirt branded vest seems to be of better quality commensurate with the additional cost.

Last year at Thunderhill was the first time I had to try the shirt. OH MY LORD! that was a shock. It felt like cold water was being poured down my back. Luckily I first tried it out in the pits and so had the opportunity to see if I was actually experiencing a leak. Sure felt like water was being poured. But I was dry. At Buttonwillow this year I tried leaving it running - it was that hot- but found that the on-off routine worked best. The medical coolers that aaronkoch referenced above often have some sort of valving to regulate the flow. And they can be had cheap on e-bay.

We were trying to get out to Reno-Fernley this morning to test out some suspension changes. Didn't make it, but the cool system was firmly mounted and ready to go. Any endurance racers should look at these systems.

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DonP
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Report this Post07-26-2013 06:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DonPClick Here to visit DonP's HomePageSend a Private Message to DonPEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

DonP

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quote
Originally posted by Formula Owner:

Not sure I'd do this. I haven't read the entire thread, so maybe you've addressed this. But removing the park brake hardware can cause problems. . . .


That's a very good thought. I know that we had to buy that special tool to retract the piston when we started. We've checked the brakes regularly and have not really seen any problems. But I wasn't really looking for the piston to not be retracted. I'll check specifically for that this evening. I also do not recall if we just put another set of front '88 calipers on the rear.

I'm still very impressed with the effectiveness and durability of the Thermo-quiet pads. We changed them prior to our last race just because of the hours we have on them. But in reality, the wear was all but unnoticeable. And the brakes are very good.

Thanks for the heads-up.

Don

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Report this Post07-26-2013 09:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FTF EngineeringSend a Private Message to FTF EngineeringEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Do the rules allow you to use front calipers on the rear? That would get rid of all the parking brake issues.
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