Yeah, according to what Dennis Gage said on his TV show, when he drove a 246, they didn't have the Ferrari ID on the car from the factory but a lot of US dealers put those ID's on when they sold them.
Archie
[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 01-27-2013).]
Originally posted by Falcon Fiero: I've seen a number of real Dinos with the Ferrari badging....
I don't doubt for a moment either your statement or your photographs that you've seen Ferrari badging on Dinos.
Unfortunately, and contrary to what one ordinarily might expect, that doesn't mean Dinos originally came that way.
Someone else, who, like myself or yourself, easily can simply buy and slap onto any car an emblem that says "Ferrari" --- even if it's on an old minivan.
"Ferrari" badging applied to Pontiac Fiero MERAs doesn't transform those MERAs into Ferraris, does it?
Of course not.
Nonetheless, I'd think that like myself, you've seen far more photos of Pontiac Fiero MERAs "with the Ferrrari badging" you mentioned, than the relatively few currently sporting their original "MERA" badging. Those badges obviously don't magically transform Fieros into Ferraris, do they?
That, by the way, for me is a good thing --- because although I can afford the purchase cost of a 308 (the progenitor of the MERA), I know I can't afford the maintenance cost of a real 308, or in this thread, a real Dino 246.
I think Archie nailed it with his comment:
quote
Originally posted by Archie:
Yeah, according to what Dennis Gage said on his TV show, when he drove a 246, they didn't have the Ferrari ID on the car from the factory but a lot of US dealers put those ID's on when they sold them.
Archie
I'd add to his observation only that I'd bet a whole pile of private owners added those same Ferrari badges --- IF their dealers didn't --- not unlike what probably happened with all those "Ferrari" badges you currently see on most photos of Pontiac Fiero MERAs.
It's not hard to find references that show the Dino's weren't badged with Ferrari emblems from the factory. The car was nevertheless developed by Ferrari in honour of Enzo's late son Alfredo (Dino) Ferrari, and was sold at Ferrari dealerships by Ferrari. So saying that the Dino is not a Ferrari simply because it wasn't badged as one is like saying a Fiero shouldn't be badged a GM. Whether people choose to put Fiat, Scaglietti, Pininfarina, or Ferrari emblems on a Dino, or Pontiac, GM, or Fischer emblems on a Fiero is entirely a personal choice as all of them either had a hand in designing, developing, building, financing, and/or marketing the cars in my opinion.
It's not hard to find references that show the Dino's weren't badged with Ferrari emblems from the factory....
I concur, and accordingly look forward to what I'd think actually is the main point of this thread, more updates from Archie regarding the 246 project currently in his shop.
It's not hard to find references that show the Dino's weren't badged with Ferrari emblems from the factory. The car was nevertheless developed by Ferrari in honour of Enzo's late son Alfredo (Dino) Ferrari, and was sold at Ferrari dealerships by Ferrari. So saying that the Dino is not a Ferrari simply because it wasn't badged as one is like saying a Fiero shouldn't be badged a GM. Whether people choose to put Fiat, Scaglietti, Pininfarina, or Ferrari emblems on a Dino, or Pontiac, GM, or Fischer emblems on a Fiero is entirely a personal choice as all of them either had a hand in designing, developing, building, financing, and/or marketing the cars in my opinion.
At the time the dino line came out it was to be ferrari's second line product a cheep afordable sports car line built by fiat who own the company and was not to carry the ferrari name as it was ferrari's policy that ony V12 cars could carry the name that policy was maintained till 1974 when the V8 line of cars came out and where found worthy of the ferrari badging the dino badging covers all the V6 models not just the 246
[This message has been edited by bubbajoexxx (edited 01-28-2013).]
Hopefully this will be the interesting part of today's updates.
Back on page 2 of this thread, you'll recall that there was some discussion about putting in a curved rear window.
The owner of this car had bought an OEM Dino rear window & it was too narrow for this car. We had also got dimensions from a glass supplier. Those numbers indicated that the MR2 rear window would be too wide.
A couple of weeks ago, we noticed that the a guy in an adjoing unit in our complex was working on the appropriate MR2. So we went over & did some measuring that indicated that the rear winow from the MR2 was a lot closer to the correct size than we had been told. We now assume that the measurements that we had been given by the glass place must have been some numbers he had pulled out of his hat because he was too lazy to get the correct information.
So, this last Monday, we had a MR2 rear window & sat about installing it in the car.
Here we are looking at the window on the car before we start cutting & welding.
We then removed the original Fiero rear window & started cutting Fiberglass for the fitting of the MR2 rear window.
Using the Plasma cutter Rob cut out a metal frame & started bending it for our window.
That fitting produced a location for us to weld the frame into the correct location on the chassis...
With the frame welded into position....
We started building the package tray for the interior & to keep engine compartment air, from under the sail panels, out of the cabin.
Closing in the ends of the package tray, all hand cut & countoured metal.
Even more metalwork but almost there now.....
A little bubble on this side for the gas filler tube.
Just before we went home tonight, put the window in & put the rear clip back on to see what it looks like.
Any chance that rear glass would work for a 308 to closer resemble the "real" thing? Just your best guess, since you've worked on them in the past. Just curious at this point.
Any chance that rear glass would work for a 308 to closer resemble the "real" thing? Just your best guess, since you've worked on them in the past. Just curious at this point.
HAGO!
As I remember back in the day, some people were using the MR2 rear window on the 308 replicas. With that & what we've found with this car I'd bet that it will work on Fejer's car.
Archie
[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 02-08-2013).]
Questions if you don't mind, as I would like to do something similar when I start my build (someday).
1) Is there a reason you did not use polycarb/Lexan, and bend it to shape?
2) Is there (or will there) be any consideration for opening up the b-pillar?
thanx
Bob
#1 Would be a lot harder to do than you might think. I also like the idea of using an already existing window rather than reinventing the wheel for a one off part.
Originally posted by Archie: As I remember back in the day, some people were using the MR2 rear window on the 308 replicas. With that & what we've found with this car I'd bet that it will work on Fejer's car.
I'm really looking forward to seeing how this turns out. I've seen several Fiero Dino replicas online and none of them seem quite right. Might be the roof line and or possibly the front windshield. I hope Archie can work his magic and make this one look as authentic as possible. Someone posted earlier about Archie doing a choptop on a Fiero Dino replica a while back and that reminded me that I had a few images of that choptop. I hope I get these images posted correctly.
[This message has been edited by baggs (edited 02-09-2013).]
I'm really looking forward to seeing how this turns out. I've seen several Fiero Dino replicas online and none of them seem quite right. Might be the roof line and or possibly the front windshield. I hope Archie can work his magic and make this one look as authentic as possible. Someone posted earlier about Archie doing a choptop on a Fiero Dino replica a while back and that reminded me that I had a few images of that choptop. I hope I get these images posted correctly.
Yes sir, I remember that car. The customer had bought a Dino body from Norm & brought me a Fiero GT chassis. We chopped the chasis only & returned it to him. He did all the work to the body to chop it & install it.
I've seen those pictures before when, several years after we chopped it, he had it up for sale. I gotta assume that he sold it but I've never seen or heard about it since.
This last week, we only had a chance to work on this car for a few days.
We went to work on the rocker panels.
Back in the day, 1984 or 1985, when norm was designing this kit, it was designed to use the Fiero rocker panels. It was designed to use the stock Fiero rocker panels & at that time, the only rockers that were in production were the early non-aero notchie rockers.
We tried fitting those panels but although that would fit, we didn't like the look. We wanted a more rounded look closer to what the original had. It was easier to make this decission because we felt we could use the Fino/Finale Rocker panels to fab up the rocker for this car. The Fino/Finale rockers have a bit of a flair at each end & we didn't want the flair. So we actually made 2 partial rockers for each side of the car then adter the fitting we would glass 2 parts together to make each of the rockers for both sides of the car.
We will have to make a now mounting flange for the underside of the rocker & sculpt the top of the rocker for the sill plate of the 246,but it's going to look good..
We cut out a metak plate & put it on the sill plate of the chassis to support the new rocker.
We closed in the ends of the rocker & it's looking good.
The sill plate area is looking good.
As soon as we finish up the rocker panel on the other side, we got to start shaping the rear clip around the new MR2 rear window.
Archie
[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 02-17-2013).]
I read earlier that you thought the MR2 rear window would be too wide, but I'm glad you changed your mind. It looks great! I have an MR2 rear window for my F355 project as well, and thanks to you, I now have some great ideas how I might tackle the installation.
Maybe I missed this but Do you plan on keeping it a T-Top car with the new body?
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**************************************** 88 Formula CJB Arrived Finally. #689 of 1252 Time to start Working TONY! There are Two kinds of Fiero's : Notchies and Donors!
OK Archie, I have a few questions. You started with Norms utt (under the table) Outer Body. I have noticed you are doing a bit of changing, adjusting, and modifying. Are you doing this to create an as close as you can replica or it is what the cust wants or are you just that much of a detailed type person? For the normal person (although calling anyone here normal is a stretch ) IS Norms kit good enough for a fun rebody that requires very little tweaking for get it installed. I mean above and beyond normal fitment adjustments? I do love how your keeping it a T-top and I would very much love to see a lot of pics of that process.
Joe
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**************************************** 88 Formula CJB Arrived Finally. #689 of 1252 Time to start Working TONY! There are Two kinds of Fiero's : Notchies and Donors!
OK Archie, I have a few questions. You started with Norms utt (under the table) Outer Body. I have noticed you are doing a bit of changing, adjusting, and modifying. Are you doing this to create an as close as you can replica or it is what the cust wants or are you just that much of a detailed type person? For the normal person (although calling anyone here normal is a stretch ) IS Norms kit good enough for a fun rebody that requires very little tweaking for get it installed. I mean above and beyond normal fitment adjustments? I do love how your keeping it a T-top and I would very much love to see a lot of pics of that process.
Joe
Hello from what Im seeing Archie is doing a wonderful job, hes going the extra mile to achive something that the average installer wont or cant do. Yes the dino body that we make is just that, a fun rebody that a normal person can do which is a representation of the original not a reproduction. I havent built this body kit in a long while as we have other products that keep us busy, not something we actively promote anymore. Heres a few pics with the T-top that I like. You can see what Archie is trying to with the rear window and lower rockers to get this more authentic. The outside shape of our body is correct as we pulled the molds of an actual Dino back in 85. Not something that I would have the chance to do now as Dino 246s are going for over $300,000.00 now. Just made the panels fit the Fiero then new molds to make what you see in the yellow car. Archie is going a step further. Thanks Norm
P.S. I didnt nor have I put any Ferrari signage on any of our rebodies. The owners did that themselves. !
[This message has been edited by normsf (edited 02-20-2013).]
Hello from what Im seeing Archie is doing a wonderful job, hes going the extra mile to achive something that the average installer wont or cant do. Yes the dino body that we make is just that, a fun rebody that a normal person can do which is a representation of the original not a reproduction. I havent built this body kit in a long while as we have other products that keep us busy, not something we actively promote anymore. Heres a few pics with the T-top that I like. You can see what Archie is trying to with the rear window and lower rockers to get this more authentic. The outside shape of our body is correct as we pulled the molds of an actual Dino back in 85. Not something that I would have the chance to do now as Dino 246s are going for over $300,000.00 now. Just made the panels fit the Fiero then new molds to make what you see in the yellow car. Archie is going a step further. Thanks Norm
P.S. I didnt nor have I put any Ferrari signage on any of our rebodies. The owners did that themselves. !
I thought that was the case as i did not doubt the quality of your parts. I just wanted to know for sure it was him going the extra. I have decided that when I do get to do a rebody this is the one I will be doing, as I love the Dino. thanks for keeping it around all this time for those of us getting to the party late And besides regarding the badges, i would not put any on it cause a lot did not have badging.
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**************************************** 88 Formula CJB Arrived Finally. #689 of 1252 Time to start Working TONY! There are Two kinds of Fiero's : Notchies and Donors!
[This message has been edited by Kento (edited 02-20-2013).]
Originally posted by baggs: I've seen several Fiero Dino replicas online and none of them seem quite right. Might be the roof line and or possibly the front windshield.
It would be extremely difficult to get the roofline of a Fiero to look like the Dino. You can ad some curve to it and get it closer, but without custom door windows, and probably a windshield, it still wouldn't look very close. Also, Norm's kit is sort of a hybrid between the coupe and the spider Dino. He has the slats in the panel behind the door windows (which only the spider version has) but it also has a raised portion around that to simulate the window in this area that the coupes had. There are of course no T-top Dinos. Having said that, most people would think it is a Ferrari (if that is what you are after) since who is really familiar with the details of these cars. I think it makes a great looking car no matter how you chose to finish it (Norms - stock, or Archies - modified).
there is a way to get the roof line better matched without the need for new side glass its an old trick called tilting the roof by tilting the door glass the matching the b piller and winshield frame to the glass tilt then using a wider front glass to acomidate the tilt
At the risk of side-tracking Archies thread here, I don't think it would work. If you tilt the window rearwards at the top it won't go up and down properly. Think of the rear of the glass, the matching angle of the B-pillar, then move the window up and down. Besides, it would involve cutting and rewelding the B-pillar metal and finding a windshield that would fit the new A-pillar angle and spacing and the roof. Might also scrap the work Archie did on fitting the curved rear window. Certainly not an easy task.
OK Archie, I have a few questions. You started with Norms utt (under the table) Outer Body. I have noticed you are doing a bit of changing, adjusting, and modifying. Are you doing this to create an as close as you can replica or it is what the cust wants or are you just that much of a detailed type person? For the normal person (although calling anyone here normal is a stretch ) IS Norms kit good enough for a fun rebody that requires very little tweaking for get it installed. I mean above and beyond normal fitment adjustments? I do love how your keeping it a T-top and I would very much love to see a lot of pics of that process.
Joe
I agree with Norm. This type of body, or better yet, this type of body kit, should be a relatively easy build. The only issue I had with thisone was the fitting of the doors & the door panel returns that I documented earlier in this thread.
We are trying to tweek it a little but the customer isn't really asking for an exact replica. I don't think this kit is intended to be an exact replica. It's a kit to fit the Fiero that is "Inspired" by the Dino.
On the rocker panels, this kit was designed to use the stock notchie rocker panels. We tried one of them on & they were ok. However, since we have the molds for the Fino/Finale rocker here, we looked at them & realized what we "could have" for rockers.
I don't think Norm has instructions for this body, but I think a home builder can build a nice car if he plans ahead & thinks about what he's doing.
I'm covering the build pretty good in this thread, so it could be helpful in building this body.
Sorry, it's been a couple of weeks since the last update.
We've had several days where we we're not able to work on this car.
Taking up where we left off.
Rob built & finished up the rocker panel for the drivers side of the car.....
Then we were able to get on to the rear window surround to fit the rear clip around the window.
First we put together a plan we could all agree on....
We put plastic tape on the window all around the areas we had to fiberglass....
The walls at the ends just above the window would need to be built out. So we ground the f-glass down & then put filler in.......
The idea is that we will then lay fiberglass over the filler to establish the new surface. Then later after we've cut the surface that will go around the window, we will grind the filler out & lay another layer or 2 of fiberglass on the inside of the rear clip .....
This is the rough line where the fiberglass will be cut for the window edge.....
Put the rear clip back on & check the last cut.....
Then remove the rear clip to fiberglass some more & glass the area just under the window to strengthen it up.
Next we will put the rear clip back on to final trim the edges of the fiberglass to make a nice fit around the window.
Wow, this is an amazing build, as always, Archie! Can't wait to see what happens next!
------------------ ~Michael '85 GT 4sp white - SOLD | | '85 2M6 Auto red - SOLD | | '84 2M4 bare chassis - SOLD Crap, I'm out of Fieros! Time to buy another!! - "Your mileage may vary." WTB: Formula 5sp
After the fiberglass cured from the last update, we trimmed it & pit the rear clip back on.
We actually had the rear clip on & off a few times trimming a little more at a time. Then we put the decklid back on & adjusted the gaps.
We still will be refining the edges around the window.
You'll note that the original MR2 window had the sails going back to a point. Here we have the window going up under the fiberglass of the body, in the corners. & we've put in a Radius in those corners.
Adjusting the gaps around the decklid
We also worked on the exterior door releases. We decided to replicate the releases on the Dino that Falcon Fiero took some pictures of.
The biggest problem with this handle is that it rotates when it's being opened. We had to convert that rotation to an up & down motion because everyone knows that the Fiero door release is a motion of pushing down.
So we made a pivot rod.
And then a lever off of that to a bellcrank to transfer the motion.
We still have to make a door handle.....but this is how it works.....
Archie
[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 03-14-2013).]
Are you leaving the deck lid one piece? I cut mine into 2 parts to simulate the original, even though the proportions are not right with respect to where the cut line has to be for the trunk on the Fiero. You could always put a groove across it to simulate a split line. Or you may choose to just leave it the way it is. One thing Norm told me was to watch the load the torsion springs put on the deck lid if it is one piece. It tends to bend the lid after a while.
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Now that's what ya call car BUILDING! 
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And besides regarding the badges, i would not put any on it cause a lot did not have badging.
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