quote Originally posted by doublec4: Nice work, I love seeing your creative choices of swaps. Looks like you have more room in there to work on that engine than in the 9-3 Aero. My family has one and it's a pain to get to anything in that engine compartment.

After pulling the engine apart, I am very thankful that I don't work on Saab's. Everything seems like a pain in the ass on that car. (Note: this is coming from the guy that removes the nose on an Audi to change a belt)

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: After pulling the engine apart, I am very thankful that I don't work on Saab's. Everything seems like a pain in the ass on that car. (Note: this is coming from the guy that removes the nose on an Audi to change a belt)

Isn't that a GM engine though? or is it modified that much for SAAB?

Dave after seeing it wow it fits and looks great

It is basically a GM engine. There are a few differences for the Saab. I was just referring to having to work on that setup while it was in the Saab.
As for updates, I ordered and received the Saab gas pedal for the fly by wire. I also received the gauges. I have the shifter 100% functional by using a notched four speed shifter, Archie's transmission bracket, Mattwa's F23 shift cable and a getrag select cable.

I have a few issues to work out with the design and then I'll be on to the next step.



I wanted to keep the interior simple and stock (ish). I wanted to remove the rally gauges and keep that portion looking clean and gauge-less. Originally, I was planning on having a big tach and small speedo, but this car will honestly never see the track. My biggest concern will be making sure that one of my kids doesn't spill ice cream in it

Dave

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: Originally, I was planning on having a big tach and small speedo, but this car will honestly never see the track. Dave

The two needles moving at the same time at different rates in the speedo/tach will be cool either way...

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: It is basically a GM engine. There are a few differences for the Saab. I was just referring to having to work on that setup while it was in the Saab. As for updates, I ordered and received the Saab gas pedal for the fly by wire. I also received the gauges. I have the shifter 100% functional by using a notched four speed shifter, Archie's transmission bracket, Mattwa's F23 shift cable and a getrag select cable. Dave

Glad it worked out for you, and it's not even an F23! Awesome build!!

Yeah, I figured it was good information for anyone else that wanted to try your cable with the F40. The car is really coming along nicely and I can't wait to drive this thing.
Dave

Not much to update other than for the past few weeks I have been trying to track down the ecu terminal pins. After various emails with Bosch and my usual suppliers of the terminals, I believe I have found the correct pins to redo this harness properly. The game plan is to use the factory ecu. If it doesn't meet my goals, I will start from scratch with a standalone. The down side is that the pins are 4x the cost of the 3800, and I am not 100% certain that I can make the ecu work properly in this setup, but it is worth a try.

Other than that, the cluster is complete but not mounted in the car yet.

Dave

What would you be looking at using for a standalone if you were going that road Dave?

quote Originally posted by Carcenomy: What would you be looking at using for a standalone if you were going that road Dave?

The AEM Infinity series will meet my needs. It will run the drive by wire, cam advance and from what I understand, the only issue will be the crankshaft position sensor. I hears that the two wire sensor doesn't work well with that system, so I'd have to find a 3 wire that will fit in the engine.

Dave

waiting on custom order parts the past few weeks. I had wire made that matched exactly to the Saab harness including proper tracer wire color. I know this is a little overboard, but I want it to be right. In the future if I ever have to trace back wires, I'll have the exact color and size to test for. I still need to order more, but this will get most of the signals done and the gas pedal done with plenty left over to put in stock.

I also contacted Bosch and then my local supplier of terminals for the ecu. After sending a few hi res pics, the correct ecu terminal pins were special ordered. I got 100 pins for $100 which wasn't that bad. Sure beats soldering





Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 09-06-2013).]

This is gorgeous. I love the body off build and the attention to detail.

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I bought a Fiero because my friends said I shouldn't.

Thanks!

I've been in the zone lately to get cranking on this, and I spent the entire day yesterday on the wiring. It took me about an hour to draw out the "map" of how I want the wiring to lay out, where I wanted the computer to go and what would have to be modified. I wound up running a lot of the wiring in the small gap between the upper intake and the valve cover thus hiding all the wiring from the rear engine bank.

The fuel injector main harness got replaced with all new wires as the original wiring was heat checked from being close to the turbo. I used all new pins at both ends so there was no soldering. The main power butt splices were remade with a factory style crimp and organized better to flow with my new mapping.

Here are a few pics of the initial mess....



New terminal pin on the fuel injector main connection harness.



I have a busy day today, so tomorrow I should have the sensor harness done (or close to done). Then it is on to the power side.

Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 09-10-2013).]

I wound up using silicone shrink tape on a lot of the harness. The loom seemed to not look as nice and make the turns as tight to fit this way. I wanted to hide as much of it from sight by tucking it in the channel under the upper intake.



The downpipe is complete. Wrapped with the titanium exhaust wrap.

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 11-10-2013).]

Fuel system is complete. I'm hoping that the exhaust will be fully completed by the end of this month.

This is the picture of my returnless fuel system using a rising rate regulator. Since the pic was taken, the feed lines were completed.




Here is an overview of the engine as it sits today....

When you get this thing done, is Joey gonna still call it the gay Fiero when it possibly sucks the pretty paint off her car? Hi, Joey! J/K

I always enjoy watchin' your builds, Dave.

Paul

That looks awesome.

Here is some more progress. PCV system is complete and functional; cooling system complete; vacuum system including brake booster hose complete; half of the ecu wiring is complete and C500 wiring complete. I am waiting on a few parts to arrive that I found in Sweden (the hose from the throttle body and the hose at the turbo)....they should be along around Christmas time. Other than that, my next step is the rest of the ecu wiring and relays.

Looks great Dave!

I hit a wall and had to take a break from it. I couldn't figure out how to get the fuel pump to work with the computer properly. After reading through the WIS and Alldata, I have to redo my fuel system from scratch so that the ecu can control the fuel pump control module. This means that the fuel pressure regulator will be removed and the fuel pump will be controlled by PWM voltage and not a constant voltage.
Basically, I'll remove the fuel pressure regulator and block off the return port. I'll also have to send the fuel pump ground to the module to be controlled. There is a senor in the fuel rail that detects pressure and adjusts accordingly. The programming allows it to also switch between 93 octane and E85, but there isn't any E85 available within 100 miles of me.
This is the hard part about pioneering a new swap. Otherwise, it has been going smoothly.
Dave

I forgot if you said whether you were using the Fiero pump or not.
Just wondering how it will hold up to the PWM "supply voltage".

That's a novel way to regulate fuel pressure.

I'm not using the stock Fiero pump. It is one that will work with my fueling needs. My custom axles arrived yesterday and that got me back in the mood to keep cranking on this. I'm hoping to redo the fuel system and install the axles within the next few days.

I bet you can get this completed by Daytona weekend in March. hint, hint, wink, wink.

quote Originally posted by rpro: I bet you can get this completed by Daytona weekend in March. hint, hint, wink, wink.

Daytona is not going to be possible this year. I can't say what it is yet, but we have something really big going on at the shop starting Monday and it will probably take us until March to get it all sorted. It isn't Fiero related, but I'll announce what is going on once I secure this deal.

Dave

Best of luck! (I know it's gonna rock, whatever it is!)

I keep checking to see what's the latest really cool thing you have done. What a sweet build!

Woody

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woodys 427

quote Originally posted by bmwguru:

Great job man.
Looking at the top of this engine. Its begging for something that says Fiero on top of that black piece. Too cheesey or is it in the plan?

I'm going to keep it plain without any logos on the engine. With the bad weather this week, I may get some free time to work on this project. I'll update as time goes on.

Dave

Hey Dave, how replicable would this swap be, and would you be able to adapt the work you've done here to other members of the HFV6 family? Specifically thinking the LY7 3.6.

I don't see it being that hard. The engine fits...and it fits well. The key to it is being able to use a stock FWD transmission without an adapter plate, custom flywheel or clutch. The F40 I am using came from the Saab, so everything that was used were store bought parts...except the axles. I had to have custom made inner joints to fit the shaft and then Fiero outer joints. They cost me around $850.
The mounts were not hard. to make. The only issue I am running into is the wiring for the stock ecu, but I have it all figured out now and it isn't an issue once you figure out the little quirks. Being that I am using the stock ecu opens up the possibilities for mainstream swaps. I probably won't do them in the future, but I'm sure that someone here will want to.
After this swap is complete, it appears we will be building a 600whp Ecotec....but that isn't set in stone right now....and that isn't my decision at the moment, but the next generation of engine swaps is right around the corner.

Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 12-11-2013).]

You've basically just confirmed what I've been thinking for a while, you little ripper!

As long as the changes between transverse and longitudinal HFV6s aren't too severe, that effectively gives the Fiero community a whole family of slick modern V6s to use, including the common LY7 and the bonny wee LF1 3.0. I've given the LF1 a go in a Commodore and good lord, for a wee 3.0 it's pretty serious! The whole time I was thinking "This needs to be behind my head"...

The setup has the cooling system backwards when installed in the Fiero. I tried to make this look as clean as possible and this is what I came up with using stainless 90 degree mandrel bends. There is limited room in the engine bay to cross lines there, so I did it in the front. The pipes don't touch each other...the angle in the pic is hard to tell.

After taking a little more than three months off this project, I got back on it yesterday. I had to take a break while we relocated my shop. I am now able to spend an hour or two a day with the car again. Yesterday, I got the clutch all bled out and made my list of what need to be done. I went through all the parts and I have a gameplan to spend my time more efficiently with the car.
Dave

I spent yesterday with a big box covered in wiring diagrams and a 6'x8' dry erase board with my notes. I managed to get a ton of wiring done. I made a complete harness for the accelerator pedal and brake switch from the spools of custom wiring that I purchased a while back. The wiring was custom made to match the factory wiring with tracers.

I really enjoyed watching the puzzle come together. The only tidbits of wiring left are the main relay, fuel pump module and relay, and a/c relay. Once that is done, battery cables will be installed and it should be ready to start up. I need to drop the gas tank again to rewire the fuel pump though. It will need a dedicated ground wire to the fuel pump module to work properly without a fuel pressure regulator.




On a side note, it looks like I'll have my hand in helping build a wiring harness for his turbo ecotec after this one for my tech, Ryan who sold his 3800s/c drivetrain.

I also plan to put my gold GT 3800s/c car up for sale in the near future.

quote Originally posted by bmwguru:

not really a fan of how this was done, but otherwise, very good job so far, very clean.

[This message has been edited by ericjon262 (edited 04-06-2014).]

It was either cross them at the back, cross them at the front or custom radiator. I agree with you, I'm not 100% on they way I did that too, and it will probably wind up on my redo list after the car has been driven for the first season.

Dave

where did you get the bulk wire for your swap? on my next swap, I would like to use new wire instead of salvage old wire.

Thanks-

Eric

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: It was either cross them at the back, cross them at the front or custom radiator. I agree with you, I'm not 100% on they way I did that too, and it will probably wind up on my redo list after the car has been driven for the first season. Dave

Ran into the same problem with the Chrysler swap. I had looked into a custom radiator as well, but the problem with moving the hose outlet on the drivers side to the bottom of the radiator is the transmission cooler and lines are in the way. Usually the cooler is in the tank with the upper hose, you could move the cooler to the passenger side but then you would have to cross the cooler lines. This is how I did mine, I couldn't cross my hoses in the back because the engine is longitudinal. I'd be interested to see what you final solution you come up with for yours.

I used http://www.awcwire.com/ for my custom wire. They can add tracers, letters etc.

The magical part of this swap that makes me happy is the wiring in the car matches the wiring on the Saab's wiring diagrams just about perfectly. There are splices where splices are supposed to be. The wiring color matches exactly as it should. This makes future diagnosis easy if it is indeed a wiring issue. I made notes to tell me where the splices and connections have been moved to, but all the wiring matches as it should.

I will have to wait a few days for more supplies to arrive before I get to the next step, even though I'm as anxious as Kevin Spacey in the final scenes of the movie Se7en to keep working on this.

Also, with the new epoxy coated floor, sitting on a shop floor doesn't quite feel dirty anymore.

Dave