I get frustrated with the older parts and technology of my Fieros as I'm sure many of you do. I get a little spoiled when I drive my wife's Honda Pilot. Sometimes I wish I had a newer car but I still like things about the Fiero.
Has anyone done any kind of Fiero/ Solstice hybrid? Like changing a Solstice to rear engine? Stretching a Solstice? I know people have done V8's. What is taking up all the room in the trunk? Anybody done anything to create more trunk room?
Hello, the Solstice is a wonderful car though it may not be practical for most. However the coupe does offer a little extra room in back. And the previous post is correct that is indeed the fuel tank that takes up a lot of space. The price to pay for a safer car today. Thanks Norm www.normsfiberglass.com
------------------ Norm Vandermee
[This message has been edited by normsf (edited 02-20-2013).]
As Norm said the gas tank is in the way. *Note* the red circle is not where the gas tank is, it lays flat above the rear axles.
Maybe not a hybrid but I did put Solstice headlights on my 87 project.
Solstice weight distribution is 53 front / 47 rear. Fiero weight distribution is 43.4 front / 56.6 rear Really no need to make a Solstice mid engine as it is pretty well balanced as is the Fiero. My Solstice handles the twisty’s with no problem and has plenty of HP to embarrass the ricers.
[This message has been edited by BlackThunderGT (edited 02-20-2013).]
Originally posted by project34: In the Pontiac Solstice and in its Saturn Sky counterpart, it's the carpeted-over gas tank which takes up so much room in the trunk.
This is correct. It actually seems to be one of the big pains of the Kappa community. You cannot do much about that large hump in the trunk. Some owners in the Kappa community have increased their trunk space by modifying the extreme rear of the trunk to have a "shelf"-type trunk, but you are still hindered by the large hump.
I seriously thought about a Solstice or Sky for a fun vehicle - literally was going to just go pay cash for one. But after having driven a co-worker's Sky and a few Solstices and Skys around town, it's just a super impractical vehicle for me even as a fun car. The only storage if you have a passenger is in the back and it's not much - like literally about all you can put back there is gym bag style bags. The top is manually lowered and raised - not automated. The Fiero by far has way more space to store things, especially if you strategically place position your spare up front, and then you will have both the front and rear trunk to store things.
This is correct. It actually seems to be one of the big pains of the Kappa community. You cannot do much about that large hump in the trunk. Some owners in the Kappa community have increased their trunk space by modifying the extreme rear of the trunk to have a "shelf"-type trunk, but you are still hindered by the large hump.
I seriously thought about a Solstice or Sky for a fun vehicle - literally was going to just go pay cash for one. But after having driven a co-worker's Sky and a few Solstices and Skys around town, it's just a super impractical vehicle for me even as a fun car. The only storage if you have a passenger is in the back and it's not much - like literally about all you can put back there is gym bag style bags. The top is manually lowered and raised - not automated. The Fiero by far has way more space to store things, especially if you strategically place position your spare up front, and then you will have both the front and rear trunk to store things.
It wouldn't be bad, but the competition had better vehicles (more power, more space, tops that didn't require you to leave the vehicle to put up/down). GM just missed the mark, sadly.
It wouldn't be bad, but the competition had better vehicles (more power, more space, tops that didn't require you to leave the vehicle to put up/down). GM just missed the mark, sadly.
Hello, maybe. I cant think of any that doesnt cost 2 1/2 times more though. The Porsche Boxer S is a very nice car, nice top, nice interior but wont keep up with a GXP on the track. The Solstice is a track star proven in SCCA etc with championships along the way. For sure the Solstice is not for everyone, just as a lotus Elise isnt.
Hello, maybe. I cant think of any that doesnt cost 2 1/2 times more though. The Porsche Boxer S is a very nice car, nice top, nice interior but wont keep up with a GXP on the track. The Solstice is a track star proven in SCCA etc with championships along the way. For sure the Solstice is not for everyone, just as a lotus Elise isnt.
Most people don't drive on the track. Heck, a Miata is better than the Sol/Sky for everyday use. Want to travel with a friend for the weekend? Where are you going to put your luggage? I guess you have to pack really, really light
Stop to the grocery store.... not going to work. Stop and get a few things at the craft show? Nope... not going to be able to take anything home. It is about being semi-practical and the sol/sky is not this. It is for a single person, to tool around town and take a long weekend.... alone
Most people don't drive on the track. Heck, a Miata is better than the Sol/Sky for everyday use. Want to travel with a friend for the weekend? Where are you going to put your luggage? I guess you have to pack really, really light
Stop to the grocery store.... not going to work. Stop and get a few things at the craft show? Nope... not going to be able to take anything home. It is about being semi-practical and the sol/sky is not this. It is for a single person, to tool around town and take a long weekend.... alone
I take mine grocery shopping every week and we have been on several trips lasting more than a week. I put all the groceries and luggage in the back and have always had more than enough room. I often wonder what the hell people are packing that they can’t take enough cloths with them on a trip. Now granted I did spend 23 years in the Army so maybe my packing skills are better than most but come on really… not enough room.
Well if the gas tank is standing up, what is the big hump on the floor? Would a gas tank design change help?
Jonathan
I wondered the same thing when I saw the picture. That hump is way bigger than the vertical tank. Maybe that picture is an early prototype and the tank is actually laying down horizontal?
The Solstice/Sky is a huge disappointment. I know they were built quick during the period when GM was on the verge of bankruptcy. But the slapped together compromised execution of the cars represent everything that was wrong with the old GM...
I wondered the same thing when I saw the picture. That hump is way bigger than the vertical tank. Maybe that picture is an early prototype and the tank is actually laying down horizontal?
The Solstice/Sky is a huge disappointment. I know they were built quick during the period when GM was on the verge of bankruptcy. But the slapped together compromised execution of the cars represent everything that was wrong with the old GM...
The picture I posted is not where the tank is, it was the only one I had of a frame. The gas tank lays flat right above the rear axle. In the convertible it is the hump in the trunk. In my Coupe the floor is flat and I have two lift off panels that I can put stuff in. The rear storage is pretty big I could actually carry all the cloths I need for a week in it.
The picture I posted is not where the tank is, it was the only one I had of a frame. The gas tank lays flat right above the rear axle. In the convertible it is the hump in the trunk.
Yeah a quick Google image search revealed there is no vertical tank. I know the GM fanboys will defend it, but that gas tank using up 90% of the already small trunk is a deal breaker on the car for a lot of people. Even though it is possible to get a set of golf clubs in there, it's still tiny.
Most people don't drive on the track. Heck, a Miata is better than the Sol/Sky for everyday use. Want to travel with a friend for the weekend? Where are you going to put your luggage? I guess you have to pack really, really light
Stop to the grocery store.... not going to work. Stop and get a few things at the craft show? Nope... not going to be able to take anything home. It is about being semi-practical and the sol/sky is not this. It is for a single person, to tool around town and take a long weekend.... alone
Hello, everthing you said could apply to a Corvette, lots of people buy those. A GXP will surprise a lot of Corvettes save ZO6 and ZR1s but thats a different animal altogether. At less than 1/2 the cost. With a few simple inexpensive mods, you have a very nimble capable fun car for the weekend.
Yeah a quick Google image search revealed there is no vertical tank. I know the GM fanboys will defend it, but that gas tank using up 90% of the already small trunk is a deal breaker on the car for a lot of people. Even though it is possible to get a set of golf clubs in there, it's still tiny.
I agree these are not family cars by no means. It’s a toy like a Corvette or a Lotus… I mean no one needs these kinds of cars they are for fun. To even complain about the lack of useful space in a sports car is really stupid in my opinion. I bought a 2011 Tundra 4x4 crew max for hauling stuff and people. I drive my Solstice as a fun grocery getter and weekend getaway car.
So back on topic! I just did some measurements under the Coupe. Between the frame rails was 29 inches. From the cabin bulkhead to the inside of the rear bumper is 29 inches. From the cabin bulkhead to axle is 9 inches.
I have no clue what kind of engine would fit in there. The real problem I see is the cabin bulkhead is not flat all the way across like in a Fiero. The axle is only 9 inches away from the bulkhead which means unless a stretch was done the engine would be really skinny.
I take mine grocery shopping every week and we have been on several trips lasting more than a week. I put all the groceries and luggage in the back and have always had more than enough room. I often wonder what the hell people are packing that they can’t take enough cloths with them on a trip. Now granted I did spend 23 years in the Army so maybe my packing skills are better than most but come on really… not enough room.
Sigh.. the convertible... personally I wouldn't want a coupe.
I agree these are not family cars by no means. It’s a toy like a Corvette or a Lotus… I mean no one needs these kinds of cars they are for fun. To even complain about the lack of useful space in a sports car is really stupid in my opinion. I bought a 2011 Tundra 4x4 crew max for hauling stuff and people. I drive my Solstice as a fun grocery getter and weekend getaway car.
Not everyone has the money for multiple vehicles. They don't have to be just for fun. They could have been functional. Look at the miata... a practical, fun car. I have traveled in my fieros. But the sol/sky wouldn't have enough room. Btw, my fiero was a conv.
in general (owning one) The solstice in my opinion is more fun to drive than the fiero anyway. much quicker, Drop top, Newer tech etc... try driving one.. you wont want to change a thing for a long time. Another thing i forgot to mention is there reliable, Mine made it from PA to TX 1000 miles in the shift before shutting down for sleep and the only problem I had was a turn signal light blew out,
[This message has been edited by pontiackid86 (edited 02-20-2013).]
Rick, you can't cite reliability as a selling point for a modern car - they should ALL be reliable. End of story.
I've put 20k miles on my '06 Crown Vic since I bought it a year ago - now it's pushing 190k without ever having a single thing worked on. According to some people, I should have already blown the engine in my 8 but it's still ticking along. It's not a solid argument.
If I wanted a fairly inexpensve convertible two-seater, I'd buy an MX-5. Anything over $30 grand (which is where the kappas sat new) and I would've started looking for a used Elise or an older Viper... But that's just how I roll
[This message has been edited by skuzzbomer (edited 02-20-2013).]
To even complain about the lack of useful space in a sports car is really stupid in my opinion. I bought a 2011 Tundra 4x4 crew max for hauling stuff and people. I drive my Solstice as a fun grocery getter and weekend getaway car.
If this were a Corvette or Lotus I would agree with you, but it's a fricken Pontiac. To sacrifice the entire trunk, I don't think it's THAT fun to drive. It would be as if the Fiero had no rear trunk at all and the only space you had was up front around the spare tire. That would be unacceptable to me. Maybe not for everyone but a car with no trunk serves no useful purpose to me.
First off you would kill the car to move the engine to the back. As it is the balance of the car is nearly perfect and moving the engine to the rear would create only a tail heavy car with handling issues. It does not matter where the engine is it is the balance that counts. Too many people get hung up on Mid Engine vs. real world balance. This is why the Pratt and Miller Corvettes can compete with the Ferrari Italia and not have the engine in back. In fact the Vette won the championship this year with a better balanced car.
As for the Solstice. The car was simply a car Bob Lutz was able to piece together from a parts bin. The Rear end was from a CTS and takes up much of the room along with the gas tank. The front fog lights are from a Granp Prix and the rear back up lights from a GMC, Door handles from a Alfa Romeo etc. The simple fact was is if they had to redesign the whole car to create a trunk it would have never been built. Much the same as the Fiero accept the engineering of the car was a little better since they did get some better parts to work with like the Eco Turbo etc.
The fact was GM would not have built the car if they did a redesign and Pontiac the performance division needed something better than a G6 for a performance car. Lutz did what he could with next to nothing but it really was too late when he arrived. The simple fact is most small sports cars are not travel cars. Most are a third car you take out on weekends or drive to work on a nice day. The Miata is a rare car that is a sports car with a trunk. Even then you still need to pack light as it will still not take a whole lot.
Sport cars are pleasure cars and most who own them take their SUV to the market to bring the good home. While the Solstice trunk being small was not great it is not a real killer for this type of car as most expect and under stand that. Even the Fiero is limited in the trunk not only in space but temperature. You won't be packing the Ice cream or Meat back there if you bought groceries.
Now if the Solstice was a 2+2 the lack of trunk would make it a death sentence with sales.
As for the Solstice. The car was simply a car Bob Lutz was able to piece together from a parts bin. The Rear end was from a CTS and takes up much of the room along with the gas tank. The front fog lights are from a Granp Prix and the rear back up lights from a GMC, Door handles from a Alfa Romeo etc. The simple fact was is if they had to redesign the whole car to create a trunk it would have never been built. Much the same as the Fiero accept the engineering of the car was a little better since they did get some better parts to work with like the Eco Turbo etc.
I agree with everything you say except I think the Fiero was the better engineered parts bin car. I am not happy with the Fiero front trunk the way the components are just randomly located all over the place. But they did a very decent job in the rear trunk. Two people can easily pack enough gear for a weekend getaway or even a week trip if they are careful.
I had a very good time with my Solstice. I didn't have an issue with the trunk size, and I even took it on several multiple day trips with two people without a problem...AND was still able to put the top down.
It served its purpose for what it was very nicely....and got over 30mpg most of the time.
Yeah I'm pretty sure that even with the small trunk I'll probably have one eventually. When the price comes down low enough that I can get one with pocket change then I'll take the plunge.
I agree with everything you say except I think the Fiero was the better engineered parts bin car. I am not happy with the Fiero front trunk the way the components are just randomly located all over the place. But they did a very decent job in the rear trunk. Two people can easily pack enough gear for a weekend getaway or even a week trip if they are careful.
Then you have never driven a Kappa.
The Solstice is a much better sorted out car than my Fiero ever was. No bump steer, better ride, better engine, Stronger tranny and rear end. etc.....
I can buy a GXP and for less then 500 Make it into a 290 HP car with 340 FT LBS with nothing more than two Map sensors and a computer flash and still not void the warranty. I love my Fiero but the reality is the Solstice was a better car to drive out of the box than the Fiero.
The Solstice had some flaws but most were just ergonomic.
As a owner of a Eco Turbo with the GM Performance upgrade GM just did not have any engine back then that even comes close to what this engine is or can do. Getting near 300 Reliable HP from a 2.0 is amazing and the 340 FT LBS is just flat fun. I see 23 PSI of boost and drive it daily getting 25 MPG in a 3200 pound vehicle. We will see much more out of this combo soon.
To be fair the GM just did not have all that much to draw from back in the day. They did a lot with what they had but they did not have much to work with to start.
The Solstice is a much better sorted out car than my Fiero ever was. No bump steer, better ride, better engine, Stronger tranny and rear end. etc.....
I can buy a GXP and for less then 500 Make it into a 290 HP car with 340 FT LBS with nothing more than two Map sensors and a computer flash and still not void the warranty. I love my Fiero but the reality is the Solstice was a better car to drive out of the box than the Fiero.
The Solstice had some flaws but most were just ergonomic.
As a owner of a Eco Turbo with the GM Performance upgrade GM just did not have any engine back then that even comes close to what this engine is or can do. Getting near 300 Reliable HP from a 2.0 is amazing and the 340 FT LBS is just flat fun. I see 23 PSI of boost and drive it daily getting 25 MPG in a 3200 pound vehicle. We will see much more out of this combo soon.
To be fair the GM just did not have all that much to draw from back in the day. They did a lot with what they had but they did not have much to work with to start.
You are correct. I never drove a Kappa and I'm sure mechanically it's far better than the Fiero.
My point was that Hulki and his team spent far more time and given what they had to work with at the time came up with a better integrated product (for it's day) than the slapped together Solstice/Sky.
I don't think that the Solstice/Sky was one of Motor Trend's 10 best?
I don't think the Solstice/Sky rivaled the 1966 Mustang for first year sales?
I don't think that any reasonable person thinks this is how they want their trunk to look?
But as I said earlier, I'll probably end up owning one at some point as a fun toy.
So if someone, obviously not me, stretched the Solstice behind the seats, added an '88 cradle with a 3800SC, removed the front engine and enclosed it for a trunk, and made a tranny tunnel gas tank ala Fiero, it would satisfy everyone! You'd prolly have to re-engineer the top to fold down on top of the trunk like a classic VW beetle, too.
Why in the world hasn't anyone done this already?! It's so simple!!
I was going to buy one but when I finally got to sit in it I discovered it's not for people over 6'. I am 6'4" and when sitting down as far as I can, I am looking right into the top of the windshield frame. It was easy to just look over the windshield. The leg room is a big problem too.
You are correct. I never drove a Kappa and I'm sure mechanically it's far better than the Fiero.
My point was that Hulki and his team spent far more time and given what they had to work with at the time came up with a better integrated product (for it's day) than the slapped together Solstice/Sky.
I don't think that the Solstice/Sky was one of Motor Trend's 10 best?
I don't think the Solstice/Sky rivaled the 1966 Mustang for first year sales?
I don't think that any reasonable person thinks this is how they want their trunk to look?
But as I said earlier, I'll probably end up owning one at some point as a fun toy.
Integrated the car? Is that why the front end and the back end of the 84-87 Fiero dance to their own drummers. The car was not that well integrated and was short cut to death. Sorry but the Fiero in stock form is a good considering but not as good it should or could be. That is why the it responds so well to mods as it was lacking in the first place. Come on no rear sway bar and rubber bushings with rubber frame bushings that induce obscene bump steer. My HHR SS will drive circles around a Fiero even being a FWD.
Ok the Vega was Motor Trend car of the year too. Besides look around in the 80's and what other choices did they have?
The Fiero was marketed well but over sold and did more to hurt the car than help it. It is never smart to over sell a 2 seater car as there is a limited group of buyers out there that you will appeal too. Pontiac had to in keeping the plant viable or they would have been shut down sooner. The truth be told most of the people who bought the Fiero bought them in the first couple years. Pontiac took the risk in over selling till the GM 80 came on line. Once the GM 80 was killed Pontiac was screwed. Solstice sales were limited and spread over 4 cars globally like the Miata. Sales were not expected in great numbers if they wanted the car to live. Even then most small 2 seat cars live short lives outside the Vette or Miata. I understand why they did what they did but it backfired on them.
As for trunks the 68-77 Vette had a much worse storage area and no one really complained because it was a sports car not a SUV.
The bottom line faults and all the Solstice was a well sorted car and the advance technology and higher quality parts to choose from made it a better car. GM really had little to draw from back in the 80's as their money issues were harsh even then.
Drive a Kappa Turbo and then drive a 1985 Fiero GT back to back and you will understand what I mean.
I love my Fiero but I have no delusions of its short comings. The Solstice also has many of their own short comings too but they tend to be less performance related and more ergonomic related and that is the sore spot of most sports cars.
Sorry I did not want to get that harsh but sometimes some reality is needed to keep things in check. At times from the things I read some can make the Hulki and the Fiero out to be the second coming of Enzo and the F40.
I was going to buy one but when I finally got to sit in it I discovered it's not for people over 6'. I am 6'4" and when sitting down as far as I can, I am looking right into the top of the windshield frame. It was easy to just look over the windshield. The leg room is a big problem too.
Damn.
My buddies dad when he drove his Viper would stick out of it too. He was over 6 foot. Most sports cars are not tall friendly.
Integrated the car? Is that why the front end and the back end of the 84-87 Fiero dance to their own drummers. The car was not that well integrated and was short cut to death. Sorry but the Fiero in stock form is a good considering but not as good it should or could be. That is why the it responds so well to mods as it was lacking in the first place. Come on no rear sway bar and rubber bushings with rubber frame bushings that induce obscene bump steer. My HHR SS will drive circles around a Fiero even being a FWD.
Ok the Vega was Motor Trend car of the year too. Besides look around in the 80's and what other choices did they have?
The Fiero was marketed well but over sold and did more to hurt the car than help it. It is never smart to over sell a 2 seater car as there is a limited group of buyers out there that you will appeal too. Pontiac had to in keeping the plant viable or they would have been shut down sooner. The truth be told most of the people who bought the Fiero bought them in the first couple years. Pontiac took the risk in over selling till the GM 80 came on line. Once the GM 80 was killed Pontiac was screwed. Solstice sales were limited and spread over 4 cars globally like the Miata. Sales were not expected in great numbers if they wanted the car to live. Even then most small 2 seat cars live short lives outside the Vette or Miata. I understand why they did what they did but it backfired on them.
As for trunks the 68-77 Vette had a much worse storage area and no one really complained because it was a sports car not a SUV.
The bottom line faults and all the Solstice was a well sorted car and the advance technology and higher quality parts to choose from made it a better car. GM really had little to draw from back in the 80's as their money issues were harsh even then.
Drive a Kappa Turbo and then drive a 1985 Fiero GT back to back and you will understand what I mean.
I love my Fiero but I have no delusions of its short comings. The Solstice also has many of their own short comings too but they tend to be less performance related and more ergonomic related and that is the sore spot of most sports cars.
I'm really not trying to be disagreeable, and I'm not trying to say that a 1985 Fiero GT is any match for any car built in this century. What I'm trying to say that FOR IT'S DAY the Fiero was a decently engineered car. And although it's most definitely a part bin car the packaging and ergonomics is better than what GM came up with 20 years later on the Solstice/Sky. I'm sorry if that offends anyone that owns/owned a Solstice or worked on it, or is just fond of it.
I'm probably as big a fanboy of GM as anyone but sometimes their shortcuts make me want to scream. On the Fiero...the dew wipes for one, who came up with that mounting method? The plastic steering rack bushing? The entire hydraulic clutch design?
I'm not familiar enough with the Solstice/Sly to know all it's shortcomings except that it has a huge bump in the middle of the trunk. I mean it wouldn't be so insulting if they had at least leveled it off and just made the trunk shallower.
