.......Everything other than the tube chassis race car was rather laughable.
There are some builds on here that get started and never get finished or just kind of evaporate, so there are going to be some nay-sayers, its going to happen so you just need to let it slide. The only way to silence the nay-sayers is to complete your build successfully. Your building it for yourself, not everybody here, so you shouldn't be worried about what other people think about it. Insulting the general population is not going to make you any friends here. I spent 6 months working hard on my Chrysler swap and I'm damn happy with the end result so I take exception to your "laughable" comment, as I'm sure would many others on here who have worked hard and successfully completed their projects. Work on you project.....post progress pics.....show how you solved design problems.....and get it running. Its a pretty simple template for a successful build thread.
There are some builds on here that get started and never get finished or just kind of evaporate, so there are going to be some nay-sayers, its going to happen so you just need to let it slide. The only way to silence the nay-sayers is to complete your build successfully. Your building it for yourself, not everybody here, so you shouldn't be worried about what other people think about it. Insulting the general population is not going to make you any friends here. I spent 6 months working hard on my Chrysler swap and I'm damn happy with the end result so I take exception to your "laughable" comment, as I'm sure would many others on here who have worked hard and successfully completed their projects. Work on you project.....post progress pics.....show how you solved design problems.....and get it running. Its a pretty simple template for a successful build thread.
HEY! I absolutley loved your project, you took one of Chryslers better V-6's and stuffed it into a Fiero. You got the best of both worlds in my opinion, and I would love to have one for myself. -Jason
Hahahaha GOOD LUCK getting this shift link to work...
The hondas use a dual rod setup that connects the shifter directly to the transmission from behind it... In this case you are going to have to attach the transmission shift linkage from behind the motor, and transfer it on top of the gas tank... You could attempt to build an adapter that operates it via cable, but you are going to need cables double the length of stock, and a bunch of engineeering to manufacture a "select" system via cable.
Complete waste of time compared to the tried and true GM swaps out here...
Originally posted by darkhorizon:The hondas use a dual rod setup that connects the shifter directly to the transmission from behind it...
Some Hondas use a rod shifter, but plenty of them use a cable shifter - many Civic based things, and at least some generations of the Prelude, probably Accords at some point or another too. If you know anything about Hondas, you know that at some point someone has built nearly every engine + tranny + body combination. I'd pretty much guarantee there's some cable-shifted transmission out there that will bolt up to an F-series engine without an issue. My recollection is that H and F series motors are interchangeable as far as the bell housings go, so that would point me towards a 4th gen Prelude transmission which I am pretty darned certain is cable shifted. I think that's the M2S4, but it's been a long time since I had anything to do with Hondas (and that was only to have something to talk about with the super hot owner of a 4th gen Prelude ).
I have seen rear mounted engines and trannys in civics done before. If you find any issues with your linkages and such, perhaps you should check out their build threads and forums for a solution. I would love to see this project finished because my friends always suggest I swap in a Honda engine (K24). Good Luck!
There are a lot of extremely smart people here that have come up with very innovative ways of doing things. So what if this is a one off. Who cares! If he wants to step up to the plate and take the challenge of getting this to work good for him. Isn't that what this forum is supposed to be about? A place of people that own a unique car to show what they want to make of it? So what if he isn't able to make it happen. Not like he would be the first.
So if you have something positive or constructive, good. If not, the internet is a big place, and I am sure you can find something else to make fun of.
And to the OP, did you even check to see if there was oil in the car before you drive it =P and good luck with the swap, hope it goes well for you!
With all these people in the upstate New York area we should honestly have more meet and greets lol.
I'm interested in seeing this get done and wish you luck. It will be something I've never seen before and I like that. +1 on air coming from underneath though. I wouldn't mess with that. And remember, no reason to hate on the other swaps in the community. A lot of those guys were the people welcoming you in the first place.
Hahahaha GOOD LUCK getting this shift link to work...
Complete waste of time compared to the tried and true GM swaps out here...
In for "this project will never be finished".
So, you are laughing at him because you aren't smart enough to fabricate a transmission linkage? I worked on Honda's back in the day and currently own one and it took me about 35 seconds to come up with three possibilities as to how to hook up the transmission linkage. Regardless, don't knock on someone who doesn't want to do the belly button swaps. I still shake my head at the fact GM uses pushrods. They could do so much more with overhead variable camshafts.
Originally posted by bmwguru: I still shake my head at the fact GM uses pushrods. They could do so much more with overhead variable camshafts.
This is really only true for the V8s, which are primarily in trucks and only a few cars at this point. The new 4.3 V6 going in the trucks is a pushrod engine, but all the I4 and V6 engines going in cars are DOHC, being either an Ecotec I4, or a High Feature V6 platform.
There are plenty of good reasons they still keep pushrods in the V8s. Though, a DOHC V8 from GM that's a mix of LSx and High Feature V6 tech, would be quite interesting to see. VVT SIDI 5.3L making 500 HP N/A would be fun.
So, you are laughing at him because you aren't smart enough to fabricate a transmission linkage? I worked on Honda's back in the day and currently own one and it took me about 35 seconds to come up with three possibilities as to how to hook up the transmission linkage. Regardless, don't knock on someone who doesn't want to do the belly button swaps. I still shake my head at the fact GM uses pushrods. They could do so much more with overhead variable camshafts.
Dave
Plenty of top notch companies still scratch their heads when trying to beat GM pushrod cars on the track, so how great can overhead valvetrain be? Considering you know alot more than GM does about engines, you should come out here and tell these engineers how to do their jobs.
Not saying it would be impossible to setup a linkage, you just really need to look at the practicality of what you are doing when doing an exotic engine swap into a fiero... If doing a honda swap makes you 10whp more than a GM swap thats cool and all, but is it worth the $600 shift link and clutch setup, custom axles, potnetial custom subframe compared to other swaps? K motors and transmissions are also NOT CHEAP to begin with as they are easy swaps into civic platforms that hold great value when swapped.
quote
Even if you've brought up some critical information, why do you feel the need to laugh at and ridicule the guy?
Its pretty similar to watching a kid play with a stove... In this case im telling him that he is going to get burned if he doesnt pay attention.. is it wrong for providing this information? Is it possible the kid playing with a stove is smart enough to figure out that its hot withou getting burned.. yes, but you dont expect kids to be that smart typically.
[This message has been edited by darkhorizon (edited 10-17-2013).]
Its pretty similar to watching a kid play with a stove... In this case im telling him that he is going to get burned if he doesnt pay attention.. is it wrong for providing this information? Is it possible the kid playing with a stove is smart enough to figure out that its hot withou getting burned.. yes, but you dont expect kids to be that smart typically.
You didn't address my question.
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
Even if you've brought up some critical information, why do you feel the need to laugh at and ridicule the guy?
Can you not "provide the information" in more of a respectful manner?
Plenty of top notch companies still scratch their heads when trying to beat GM pushrod cars on the track, so how great can overhead valvetrain be? Considering you know alot more than GM does about engines, you should come out here and tell these engineers how to do their jobs.
Not saying it would be impossible to setup a linkage, you just really need to look at the practicality of what you are doing when doing an exotic engine swap into a fiero... If doing a honda swap makes you 10whp more than a GM swap thats cool and all, but is it worth the $600 shift link and clutch setup, custom axles, potnetial custom subframe compared to other swaps? K motors and transmissions are also NOT CHEAP to begin with as they are easy swaps into civic platforms that hold great value when swapped.
I never mentioned anything about the track. Obviously, you must live there or something. With variable camshafts and even the Valvetronic system, I can change valve lift and advance rates with the touch of a button. I'm all for using technology in a car. A fixed camshaft seems a little 20th century in my taste.
As for Fiero swaps holding their values, nobody puts money into a Fiero and expects to get their money back when done. I have currently close to $70,000 in my orange Fiero. If I wanted to make a profit, I would have invested in something else. I have no issues dropping thousands at a time on my hobbies.....and as time passes on I'll probably sell my car at a loss and pick up a new Porsche sooner or later.
Also, for some it isn't about the horsepower. My 350whp 3800s/c Fiero sucks to drive compared to my 200whp (estimated) VR6 Fiero that is geared and balanced perfectly. It out corners, out handles and if both are in my driveway at the same time, I'll grab the keys to the one that starts pulling at 1500rpms & redlines at 7,600rpms
Time out Sparky. I'm pretty sure you meant to say "it's not a SC3800 swap". Don't lump us V8 guys in with this group of nay-sayers. Plenty of folks who start swaps on this forum get crap for their choice, but no one has ever given a SC3800 swapper any crap!!!
Good luck with the swap, but if you're going to get bent out of shape after two posts about how you "won't get this swap done", I'd recommend not posting any more. You need a lot tougher skin to start a build thread using a Honda engine in an American car.
I for one hope you continue to post your update. I'd like to see how you figure it all out.
This is ridiculous, since when was any ones opinions required when someone wants to try something new. The guy posted this for us to follow not to tell him he won't do it or he is gonna pay more than its worth. Dark does your car really need a big ass turbo, no do you ever use it besides the few passes you do on the track for fun? no. Do we ridicule you for it, I'd hope not. This is a community not a cult. We don't have to march to the beat of the same drum. If anything I'd encourage you to pick up your own beat and march happily to it, neither it be engine swaps, or factory non-factory paint.
This is a community were together here to talk about fieros, admire other fieros, and seek help with our fieros. Not to say, cool you want a honda engine in your fiero? What a waste of time its gonna cost money.
Everything cost money, he could get away with putting less into that honda swap then some of us dump into our v8, 3800 swaps.
I'm all for your project, and I'd like to see updates, even if you want to email me what your working on.
Originally posted by Phirewire: Everything cost money, he could get away with putting less into that honda swap then some of us dump into our v8, 3800 swaps.
Probably not. Honda stuff is not cheap. GM stuff is.
I think it's awesome to take on the challenge of an unusual installation. I hope you keep us up-to-date on all the trials, tribulations & the final success that will eventually happen. Some threads go on for years - some may continue to evolve - never 'finishing'.
Seajai's Chrysler swap tale was intriguing with tales of trips to the pick & pull to find parts from various manufacturers to fit. He even posted pics of the results of forgetting to tighten wheel nuts! The BMW V12 build; the TDI swap - etc. etc. etc. Lots of interesting ideas.
I'd like to have a rotary powered Fiero - I had a 1972 Mazda RX2 & loved that engine. Maybe some day...
Right now I'm doing my first swap: replacing an '86 'death rattle' Duke with a purring '87 Duke. I'll be tickled if it starts! Some who read that will scoff: "What a waste of time & effort - blah, blah blah, go V6, V8, V10, nuclear reactor, blah, blah, blah!" They're just not interested in the choice I made; I'm not interested in their negative opinions & would choose to ignore them.
I just want to chime in on the "I 'd like to see this done" side of the aisle also. Just like I like seeing the Ford V6 from a SHO Taurus swapped into a Fiero. It's not always about going fast in a straight line after all. Some of us just want something different with a bit more power to drive around daily.
Wow it is like u read my mind and started on the swap I was planning on doing.i have a prelude which I put together using this engine swap.i got a f23 block and mated it to a h22 vtech head and k series pistons.Talk about a fast and fun to drive.when I cruise around town there is almost none of the other jdm style cars that can keep up. I have a 3.4 88 gt and my prelude spanks it especialy at the top end. The coolest thing about this g23 swap is that even the honda guys are not familiar with this engine combo. I always get asked how did I get a sohc block mated to dohc heads. Good luck with the swap.i will surely keep watching.
not a Honda fan but ive seen a 4G63 powered fiero so crazier things have ben done.. as long as its not being done to an IMSA indy or Mera you wont hear a peep of trouble from me . have at it
------------------ Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six. (84 IMSA) garage queen (13 Veloster) daily grinder (86 basterdized mera) fake ferrari The forums Youngest CDL driver
This is ridiculous, since when was any ones opinions required when someone wants to try something new. The guy posted this for us to follow not to tell him he won't do it or he is gonna pay more than its worth. Dark does your car really need a big ass turbo, no do you ever use it besides the few passes you do on the track for fun? no. Do we ridicule you for it, I'd hope not. This is a community not a cult. We don't have to march to the beat of the same drum. If anything I'd encourage you to pick up your own beat and march happily to it, neither it be engine swaps, or factory non-factory paint.
This is a community were together here to talk about fieros, admire other fieros, and seek help with our fieros. Not to say, cool you want a honda engine in your fiero? What a waste of time its gonna cost money.
Everything cost money, he could get away with putting less into that honda swap then some of us dump into our v8, 3800 swaps.
I'm all for your project, and I'd like to see updates, even if you want to email me what your working on.
Here's the bummer of this story...
A honda swapped fiero is going to require some really good tweaking to get the performance up to where even a broken 3800sc swap is at, easily 10x the amount of fab work and R+D required, etc...
A honda swapped fiero is going to fetch LESS than a 3800 swapped fiero... and a honda swapped honda is going to grossly out perform a fiero, be worth more money, and be way easier to build.
Originally posted by darkhorizon: A honda swapped fiero is going to fetch LESS than a 3800 swapped fiero... and a honda swapped honda is going to grossly out perform a fiero, be worth more money, and be way easier to build.
Depending on the Honda, an empty shell is likely going to be worth more money than a Fiero.
But it's relative. If someone wants to buy a Fiero with a Honda swap in it, they're probably going to also be willing to pay more for it than buying the exact same Fiero without it, or with a 3800 swap.
With any Fiero, especially with a drivetrain swap, you're going to be very lucky if you can sell it and just barely break even on it. Fieros don't get built to get sold. Classic Corvettes, Camaros, Firebirds, and GTOs, do.
All of the above is true. If I was building a car to flip, it wouldn't be a fiero.
I'm building this car for a number of reasons, like I stated initially, I wanted an Elise, but simply cannot afford one. An MR2 would be a much better platform, but they are far too expensive and always rusty. The only other affordable, viable option I could think of was the Fiero, however considering its handling faults and lack of power, after addressing these issues it should be a decent daily, and fun autocross/track car.
Now, a few updates:
I plan on reinforcing the front end to replace the structural integrity removed from that sheet metal as well a duct to remove the airflow from the radiator
I painted the F23 block
And made a plate for an engine mount, it looks kinda funny because I used the AC mount as a template.
[This message has been edited by Frank2 (edited 10-26-2013).]
Nice work Frank! When you get this one humming, what do you think about a rotary powered Fiero? I have fond memories of my 1972 Mazda RX2... it'd be interesting to have a wankel Fiero.
All of the above is true. If I was building a car to flip, it wouldn't be a fiero.
I'm building this car for a number of reasons, like I stated initially, I wanted an Elise, but simply cannot afford one. An MR2 would be a much better platform, but they are far too expensive and always rusty. The only other affordable, viable option I could think of was the Fiero, however considering its handling faults and lack of power, after addressing these issues it should be a decent daily, and fun autocross/track car.
You seem to be going into this with a degree of animosity towards the Fiero for it not being what you'd really prefer to start with - an MR2. Building the car you don't really want isn't the best way to motivate you to finish it, IMO.
Good luck with your build. If you set up the cooling to come in through the decklid vents, I look forward to your overheating troubleshooting threads. I'm sure you'll find an ingenious way to make it work.
You guys don't realize that there are other ways to shift transmissions besides cables and rods. Air, electric an hydraulic. Many drag bikes use air shifters to shift gears. There are electric shifters for motorcycle transmission that use 2 buttons on the handlebars, one shifts up the other shifts down. Electric with paddle shifters could be done. If there happens to be an air service business at a close by airport they can usually make cables to custom specs. NO problem is unsolvable with some thought. I have seen those little Honda with front wheel drive turn in the high 9 and low 10 area at the drag strip (1/4 mile). Good luck with the swap, I will be watching it.
Good luck with swap, you may disagree but I think the Fiero chassis is stronger than an MR2 chassis and makes a better base for high performance swaps. I would like to swap the Saturn Ion Redline motor into a Fiero if I had the bucks to do so.
I would have to agree the fiero chassis is more rigid. The main reasons I didn't start with an MR2 are cost, lack of availability, and the fact that they use thin sheet metal making them especially rust prone.
I agree that I'm far from a die hard fiero fan but I'm trying to take a chassis that has some interesting features (plastic panels, mid engined) as well as some serious design flaws (poor performance, less than ideal rear suspension) but all of these could be easily fixed, making for a pretty fun street car. I don't plan on building a serious track car, I just want to do something unique that is a vast improvement upon the stock setup.
I have re considered my cooling, I have a large oil cooler that will be installed when the car is turbocharged as well as a very large intercooler which will likely be placed in the rear with ducting from the bottom of the car upward with the addition of some puller fans mounted on top.
I'm currently working on replacing all of the rubber bushings with polyurethane from Energy Suspension as well as replacing all of the ball joints and tie rod ends.
).
. have at it
