So apparently a nice lady by the name of Mary Barra has been named CEO of GM. Check out her credentials, I can't think of anyone more fitting to be at the helm.
So apparently a nice lady by the name of Mary Barra has been named CEO of GM. Check out her credentials, I can't think of anyone more fitting to be at the helm.
Well there was one other that I and many others feel may have better in this place but he is now second in charge. But over all Mary should do well. Her major weakness is her public speaking but few of the GM leaders have been a very good public speaker. Mark still could take that roll and speak for GM.
Either way I am not worried and with the installation of Mary it will also help try to show the public in general that GM really has changed internally.
Her first real fight is coming up with the dropping of auto production in Australia. It is not that many people 2900 but will have a major chain reaction affect on their economy.
As for the large RWD cars look for them to come here and be based on a Alpha RWD along with the new Camaro and be exported to Australia from here. This also is where the new Chevy SS will move.
There is no real shock that his happened as the signs have been there for at least 2 years when Ford pulled out production. I feel bad for the people who live down there but the situation is not good for building cars there anymore for as much as it cost vs. total production they have. Keep in mind they only sell just over 30,000 Commodores there a year and are still the 4th place selling model in the country. GM may sell more Corvettes here this year to put it into perspective. The rest of the line is mostly imported Rebadged Chevys and they have been doing well. Australia is in a market like we went through in the 80's were people have moved to many imported FWD cars.
It is sad but we have seen similar here and as of late production has been moving back here. GM is not building more small car than they have for a long time here. In time they may be able to restore production there at some point. In the mean time there may be some thought times.
As for blame there is plenty to go around. Depending on your position it could be the union, government or GM but in truth it was all of them with a part in this and the economy not helping.
I think this will be good for our industry if production is moved here but I hate to see someone else pay the price.
[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 12-11-2013).]
Don't make "woman" jokes about it either like I did... Apparently the staff of GMAuthority.com don't find it very funny. I wasn't trying to be hilarious, just crack a couple laughs, but someone got butthurt.
Originally posted by hyperv6: Her first real fight is coming up with the dropping of auto production in Australia. It is not that many people 2900 but will have a major chain reaction affect on their economy.
Wasn't a woman in charge of Pontiac division when they introduced the Aztec?
AZTEK... K... not C... and what about it? (here is where you insert the "ugly" statement)
(I bet you will see these be collectible in the future, similar to the Fiero as they are unique and those who call them ugly never seem to take the time to drive one, but there are always someone with an opinion).
AZTEK... K... not C... and what about it? (here is where you insert the "ugly" statement)
(I bet you will see these be collectible in the future, similar to the Fiero as they are unique and those who call them ugly never seem to take the time to drive one, but there are always someone with an opinion).
AZTEK... K... not C... and what about it? (here is where you insert the "ugly" statement)
(I bet you will see these be collectible in the future, similar to the Fiero as they are unique and those who call them ugly never seem to take the time to drive one, but there are always someone with an opinion).
Collectible just like the AMC Pacer. It doesn't really matter if a car drives like a dream. If it is ugly, people won't drive it. I've never driven one and I've always thought they were ugly. Cars are a personal thing and people take personal things...well, personally. The Fiero will never be collectible because they never came with a powerful engine. That caused them to be thought of as a "girls" car. Fast forward 25 years and people now see a nice Fiero and think it DOES look nice (and maybe it performs well) but those unfamiliar with them will think it to be the exception rather than the rule for most surviving Fieros.
When I think of a collectible car, I think of one with a broad fan base. Fieros don't seem to have that. People who like them REALLY like them and will always be seeking them. Others are not in a hurry to learn about them.
"Just as the much-maligned Ford Edsel of the late 1950s is collectible today, so too will be the Pontiac Aztek in the future. No kidding--Azteks will be really collectible if there are any of them left. The Aztek is so odd-looking and weird that people want to collect them, like the popular "nerd cars"--AMC Gremlins and Pacers and Ford Pintos. Remember those VW vans with all the windows, or even mid-1980s Chrysler K-cars with the fake wood? It looked fake then. It still looks fake. But today people want 'em. These models have personalities. They're not jellybean cars."
25 years later and the Fiero still hasn't thrown off the stigma of being a slow rolling fire hazzard. It is hard to change public perception.
Maybe our definitions of "collectible" are different. After 25 years, how many AzteK's will survive? What kind of shape will they be in considering, like you said, they will have been used as utility vehicles and not the prized family possession passed down from generation to generation.
I wonder how many AzteKs have been bought and put away in a dark garage with just a few thousand miles on the clock? I think a collectible car begins with original owners who love them to the point of pampering them. How many of those owners are out there? Is there an AzteK club? AzteK forum? AzteK aftermarket? These things would point toward the possibility of collectible status.
25 years later and the Fiero still hasn't thrown off the stigma of being a slow rolling fire hazzard. It is hard to change public perception.
Maybe our definitions of "collectible" are different. After 25 years, how many AzteK's will survive? What kind of shape will they be in considering, like you said, they will have been used as utility vehicles and not the prized family possession passed down from generation to generation.
I wonder how many AzteKs have been bought and put away in a dark garage with just a few thousand miles on the clock? I think a collectible car begins with original owners who love them to the point of pampering them. How many of those owners are out there? Is there an AzteK club? AzteK forum? AzteK aftermarket? These things would point toward the possibility of collectible status.
Jonathan
Yeah, it sounds like you see collectible as something placed on a shelf, never touched, only for looking at.... whereas I look at collectible as something that is enjoyed and brings about fond memories and history and that includes daily use. Look at antique tractors, cars from the 40s and 50s, farm trucks, pickups, toys, signs... these things didn't sit in a barn, untouched.... they were part of everyday activities... people collect what they remember having, wanted to have, or something from their childhood. If something is sold as a collector edition, it is pretty much worthless, as it was never played with, or used as it was meant to be.
Yes, there is a club, there is a forum, and for aftermarket, there really isn't a strong need for this, yet (parts are still available). Plus it is still too early, as the last Aztek was build in '05 and the Buick version was last produced in '07. Way too new judge collector-ship based on number of forums and clubs... heck you have people still using them because they like the utility, and they are not thinking about what they want 25 years from now.
BTW, it is just "Aztek"... you don't have to capitalize the K, but I am guessing you are doing it for show. The correct spelling of "Aztek" is important, maybe in the future someone wants to search the forum for "Aztek" and those articles with the mis-spelling will not appear. It may seem silly to you, but why is proper spelling a bad thing?
[This message has been edited by jaskispyder (edited 12-11-2013).]
Yeah, it sounds like you see collectible as something placed on a shelf, never touched, only for looking at....
Not entirely but I think this makes up a large portion of surviving cars that are thought of as being "collectible". Just my 2 cents. I guess the most important thing is that you like yours. To each, his own!
Not entirely but I think this makes up a large portion of surviving cars that are thought of as being "collectible". Just my 2 cents. I guess the most important thing is that you like yours. To each, his own!
Jonathan
The only cars that will fit into your collectible definition would be sports cars (corvette, ferrari, porsche, which means those with the means are the only ones who can enjoy them)
BTW, I don't see myself as a collector of Azteks, I just like the utility of them, so I would just be an owner. Like My '73 International Harvester Pickup. I am not collecting, just using
Sorry, I meant "new" cars... as future collectibles.
I would put HHRs, SSRs, Lincoln Blackwoods into that catagory. I'm sure there are others. Oldsmobile Riviera, also comes to mind. We need to start a new thread in O/T about future collectibles!
Jonathan
[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 12-11-2013).]
I would put HHRs, SSRs, Lincoln Blackwoods into that catagory. I'm sure there are others. Oldsmobile Riviera, also comes to mind. We need to start a new thread in O/T about future collectibles!
Jonathan
Good idea about a thread.... as for HHR... I have one of those also... There is an SSR that is pretty beat up, running around town.... even drives it in salt.... oh well.
Ah! This was not anything that was decided recently as the Holden plan was in place a good while ago and just announced. Also this decision was made at a higher level than her. Not defending here but just stating the reality.
Holden has been in trouble for a while on building cars there and it was clear when the new Zeta Commodore came out 2 years ago it was not for long as GM stated they were already at work with a replacement. The continuation of the value of our dollar vs. there and the in country issues all create major problems for building low volume cars at a profit. Half other Zeta was already imported so why not just do the entire car.
I feel for the Aussies but this in the end will benefit us here as we will get a more modern lighter RWD sedan and more options. Also it will add more jobs here. To top it off it will give GM product to export globally.
Lets let Mary get into her office first since she does not really start till next month and just see what she does.
Not involved with the Fiero and there will not be any new Pontiac let alone Fiero.
As for collectables it is hard to say as you just never know what people will go after years from now. Just look at the people who now have a soft spot for a Pacer and Gremlin when they were so hated before. In either case 30 years from now we will know and I will probably wish I still had my HHR SS then like I wish I had my GMS Sprint SP Big Block today.
[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 12-11-2013).]
Not involved with the Fiero and there will not be any new Pontiac let alone Fiero.
As for collectables it is hard to say as you just never know what people will go after years from now. Just look at the people who now have a soft spot for a Pacer and Gremlin when they were so hated before. In either case 30 years from now we will know and I will probably wish I still had my HHR SS then like I wish I had my GMS Sprint SP Big Block today.
the pacer and the gremlin were not hated .we just thought they were "odd" ,there were people that would not be caught dead in one but talking about them mostly got laughs and smiles .AMC stayed alive back then by building cars that appealed to people that did not want to conform to the norm .and the 343 gremlin was one fast car .
— DEEP TIES: Barra was born and raised in the Detroit suburbs and steeped in the car industry. Her father, now deceased, was a die maker at GM for 39 years. She went to college at General Motors Institute (now Kettering University), a sort of automotive preparatory school in Flint, Mich., where she earned a bachelor's of science in electrical engineering and began her GM career as part of a student co-op program. Her first job, at 18, was at the Pontiac, Mich., plant that made the Pontiac Fiero sports car.
The link I posted contains that wee morsel, but I can't find any other citations of the working at Plant 17 anywhere else.
As for Holden - it's totally to be expected. Ford are axing their Australian assembly division even sooner due to a failure to react to changing conditions - no exports to other countries, even slower sales, V8 gone due to emissions. Holden at least have developed a product that sells elsewhere be it as a Chevrolet or a Vauxhall. The Commodore itself is already living on through the Chevrolet SS and the Camaro, and as I've tried to tell others locally, I do expect it's going to continue production elsewhere and be exported back to Australia. It's only economic sense to build somewhere cheaper than Australia. My only concern is build quality. Holden have made a habit of taking models developed elsewhere and performing heavy modifications so they don't fail under their local conditions and I'm sure those changes make these products even better for other markets. Will they keep an engineering team on to perform the testing and make design changes? Who knows.
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[This message has been edited by Carcenomy (edited 12-13-2013).]
I had indirect contact with Mary when she was VP of Global HR. Her Administrative Assistant called me asking for my resume the morning after I left Fritz Henderson a message when he was back working as a consultant for GM. Fritz's phone number never changed from when he was CEO. The cars brought to market recently by Mary have done very well, GM made a good choice. She did in fact, work at the Fiero Plant and drove a Fiero for a year, it replaced her Chevette. Today, she and her husband have at least one Camaro.
the pacer and the gremlin were not hated .we just thought they were "odd" ,there were people that would not be caught dead in one but talking about them mostly got laughs and smiles .AMC stayed alive back then by building cars that appealed to people that did not want to conform to the norm .and the 343 gremlin was one fast car .
Ok they were hated by everyone but weirdo's and Wayne from Wayne's World. LOL!
I grew up next to a salesman from a AMC dealer and talk about a tough way to make a living. The Gremlin was a cheap response for the Pinto and Vega. While it was not rejected as much the Pacer was fully rejected to the point the V8 and wagon versions could not save it. The car was designed around a Wankel engine that never made it and things only got worse from there. Today they are prized as there are so few left and the oddity of them. Almost in a Tucker/Edsel kind of way.
[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 12-14-2013).]
GM has lots of cash and the government owns ZERO GM stock, Pontiac will be back sooner or later.
If the resurrected Pontiac doesn't pull the same crap like they did before the end, then I can see them coming back. Possibly. They'd have to go back to their roots and be what they were designed to be, a fun and sporty brand. RWD only and none of that G-Series stuff (although the G8 was pretty cool).
If they ever did return, wouldn't GM have to buy the rights back from the Trans Am Depot in order to use the nameplate again?
If the resurrected Pontiac doesn't pull the same crap like they did before the end, then I can see them coming back. Possibly. They'd have to go back to their roots and be what they were designed to be, a fun and sporty brand. RWD only and none of that G-Series stuff (although the G8 was pretty cool).
If they ever did return, wouldn't GM have to buy the rights back from the Trans Am Depot in order to use the nameplate again?
No they would not as Trans Am belongs to the SCCA and they would collect on every TA sold by Pontiac. Note the Trans Am series is still up and running.
The depot does not own the name. They may hold the rights for a parts store but not the name itself.
But it is not going to happen anyways as GM would only cannibalize Camaro sales for the most part. Not many Mustang guys will change.
She earned an electrical engineering degree there, interning at the plant that produced the sporty Pontiac Fiero.
When she started at the plant, GM and its Big Three brethren were bleeding market share to Japanese competitors such as Honda and Toyota, whose cars American consumers had come to regard as more reliable and affordable. The focus on the Fiero line was quality: reducing defects, rebuilding public trust. Barra showed her faith by ditching the Chevette for a black Fiero her senior year.
"The first plant I worked in was the (Pontiac) Fiero plant so then in my senior year I had a Fiero. It was a super fun car to have and drive."
It would be interesting to know what year, model, etc. how long she had it...
Kathryn has made international news with her Fiero restoration project - it'd be cool to arrange an interview with Mary & have it published.
[This message has been edited by David Hambleton (edited 12-14-2013).]
But it is not going to happen anyways as GM would only cannibalize Camaro sales for the most part. Not many Mustang guys will change.
Maybe... even though I've become a Chevy guy out of necessity since Pontiac evaporated (own two Chevys) I could see myself buying a Trans Am out of old time's sake whereas a Camaro just doesn't do anything for me.
Maybe... even though I've become a Chevy guy out of necessity since Pontiac evaporated (own two Chevys) I could see myself buying a Trans Am out of old time's sake whereas a Camaro just doesn't do anything for me.
And young Jedi shall you remain a Chevy guy out of necessity.
Holden is generally Chevy now with rebadged grills and it may finally stop changing the grills. As of right now they will follow the path of Pontiac for the same reasons.
Yeah I think GM still has too many brands. Someday you might be able to explain why GMC exists when it's just rebadged Chevys. I hate rebadging anyway. I wouldn't care if they sold Holdens or Daewoos or whatever instead of rebadging.
Yeah I think GM still has too many brands. Someday you might be able to explain why GMC exists when it's just rebadged Chevys. I hate rebadging anyway. I wouldn't care if they sold Holdens or Daewoos or whatever instead of rebadging.
GMC is an easy one.
#1 It makes money and a big profit. The transaction price of a GMC tends to be much higher and since the chapter 11 the Trucks , Acadia and Terrain have gone out in larger numbers each and every year.
#2 You will see GMC move more and more away from the Chevy line with models and options not available in the Chevy line. The new Tahoe will be available with a 5.3 and RWD and 4x4. The GMC will have a 6.0 standard and RWD or AWD offered. Things like this will set them apart. GMC will offer things Cadillac offers but not Chevy at a price between both. I also expect GMC to see some CUV and SUV models Chevy will not get. The Granite that was canceled is a clue that they are looking at non shared Chevy models in the future.
GM is rebadging but only in markets the other cars are not sold in. Chevy is not down under and hence we have Holden trim. The key here is the market down there is so small that it has high expenses compared to numbers sold. Last year Holden sold 107K cars and were second in sales. That is less cars than GM sold in California.
While Chevy was not a boost to Europe with the Opel issues and the fact Euro buyers tend to be a little more nationalistic I do not see a major issue in Australia. There will be some pain felt buy some of the diehard Holden fans but for the most part they already know they are getting Chevys.
On GM insider said how the Holden group states it would be devastating to lose the name plate but the Detroit group that went down under to investigate has a large capture of photo's of people with their Holden's wearing gold Bow Ties in the grill.
Chevy has long been a forbidden fruit down under and it has a lot of fans.
I still like the old low budget Australian horror fill Dead End Drive In. The hero is driving a 56 Chevy Convertible with RHD. It played a big part in the movie.
Australia is about were we were in the 80's where the Asian cars are coming in and people are buying them even if they are not home built. To understand a market you need to know the people in it and Australians are closer to American thinking than many old non iron curtain countries. Not most old Iron Curtain countries love American cars like Chevy and they will continue there.
Anyways on GMC you have not seen all the changes to come and positioning of the company. Also as long as the high profits are paying the way and filling GM pockets GMC will remain viable. That is something Pontiac was not doing here or anywhere globally like Buick.
#1 It makes money and a big profit. The transaction price of a GMC tends to be much higher and since the chapter 11 the Trucks , Acadia and Terrain have gone out in larger numbers each and every year.
#2 You will see GMC move more and more away from the Chevy line with models and options not available in the Chevy line. The new Tahoe will be available with a 5.3 and RWD and 4x4. The GMC will have a 6.0 standard and RWD or AWD offered. Things like this will set them apart. GMC will offer things Cadillac offers but not Chevy at a price between both. I also expect GMC to see some CUV and SUV models Chevy will not get. The Granite that was canceled is a clue that they are looking at non shared Chevy models in the future.
... Anyways on GMC you have not seen all the changes to come and positioning of the company. Also as long as the high profits are paying the way and filling GM pockets GMC will remain viable. That is something Pontiac was not doing here or anywhere globally like Buick.
I guess this is one of those things I just have to accept and not try to understand. I mean if you want a truck division, then have a truck division, (like RAM). Or just sell Chevy trucks and eliminate GMC , either way they should eliminate redundant models between GMC and Chevy, (as you say they are moving in that direction).
I mean is there anyone out there that just HAS to have a Sierra, but they hate the Silverado? If there is then that person is an idiot, they are the exact same truck with maybe a shuffling of trivial options. I'm still scratching my head how they could eliminate Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Saturn, Hummer, and Saab, (sort of) but GMC selling copies of Chevy trucks is just fine.
More I think about it differentiating the two brands is worse. It further fragments the market and makes some trucks unsellable. For example I have an Avalanche. I think it's a great vehicle, but GMC doesn't make one. Consequently it sold in small numbers, and did not survive the transition to the new generation. If you end up with Chevy trucks and GMC trucks that are different you are fragmenting the market and driving up the costs. The only thing that makes sense is that GMC exists because some people in Detroit would lose their cushy jobs if they smartly sold one brand of truck. Probably has something to do with how many corner offices there are at the Ren Center and don't want them to go to waste.
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 12-15-2013).]
Jscott1, I couldn't agree with you more, but I think it has to do more with dealer network than cushy jobs in GM. For decades there was Chevrolet dealers and then the Buick-Pontiac-GMC, or Oldsmobile-Cadillac-GMC, or some other combination, and they all would be dead without a truck line.... A lot of them were dead anyway, but GM was going to loose a lot more dealers if they didn't give them a truck to sell, and they could not keep the Chevy dealers happy if they let everyone sell Chevy trucks.
Jscott1, I couldn't agree with you more, but I think it has to do more with dealer network than cushy jobs in GM. For decades there was Chevrolet dealers and then the Buick-Pontiac-GMC, or Oldsmobile-Cadillac-GMC, or some other combination, and they all would be dead without a truck line.... A lot of them were dead anyway, but GM was going to loose a lot more dealers if they didn't give them a truck to sell, and they could not keep the Chevy dealers happy if they let everyone sell Chevy trucks.
That's the most plausible explanation I've heard yet. Logically I would let all GM dealers sell Chevy trucks, and problem solved. But the Chevy dealer is going to cry a river that the Buick-GMC down the street is now selling the high volume Silverado.
Solution to that is to break the dealer monopoly. Let me order my truck on the internet and have Fed-Ex deliver it. When I need service I take it to any reputable shop that has the right equipment. Who needs the dealers anyway? I hope Elon Musk is successful busting that monopoly. He will be more remembered for that than for launching Tesla.
Originally posted by jscott1: But the Chevy dealer is going to cry a river that the Buick-GMC down the street is now selling the high volume Silverado.
The Chevy dealers might increase Silverado sales by attracting former GMC customers. GMC customers are still likely to buy a GM truck. The total sales volume might not change much.
The objections of Pontiac, Oldsmobile & Saturn dealers didn't hinder the line trimming...
The use of platforms, powertrain modules & many other 'world market' assemblies across vehicle lines is diminishing the 'brand distinctiveness' that used to be marketed anyway. If GM combines the truck lines they might claim Ford's 'best selling pick-up truck' title.
As of now GMC is helping the Buick line as they have really yet to show the new post Chapter 11 product yet. Buick has really only borrowed mostly from Opel to buy time. They will soon come out with new clean sheet of paper product.
also do not underestimate the ability of GMC. I bought my Terrain from a GMC only dealer. The dealer was a Pontiac and GMC dealer and has carried on with GMC only. To this point they are having no issues keeping the doors open and have made a good profit. The average price of the vehicles they sell are nearly $60K as they sell a lot of loaded SUV and heavy trucks. GM would like to get them into the Buick line. They will if they have to but they really are happy with GMC alone.
Note too that there are a lot of people like me that tend to like the GMC styling. I bought a Sonoma a few years back because I hated the S10 chrome. Same for today on the Sierra vs. the Silverado.
I also prefer our Terrain to the Nox and the Acadia to the Traverse styling. I like the new coming Colorado but GMC will have a version with all different sheet metal and word is it will offer power that Chevy does will offer. Turbo 4 or a V8?
Also GMC offers the Denali line where they add some trivial items of chrome and stitching larger wheels etc. They also add a good bump to the price on these items and the whole package generally is much more expensive than anything Chevy offers. The Denali is pure profit.
Now logic may be important sometimes but in this case profits over ride logic.
So yes GMC is helping Buick dealers out but it all comes back to the profits. GMC is a gold mine and while logic says it is a Chevy people are willing to pay more for them so you best keep the brand on the market.
GMC is doing what Pontiac could not do make a lot of money.
I have driven GMC's all my life and know that in the past there was little difference than the grills. At times we bought them because the GMC dealer gave us a better price or because we liked the GMC grill better. Today that will change as if you want AWD or standard larger engines you will have to go GMC or do without as Chevy will not offer it. If Chevy starts to offer it GMC has moved on. Watch for these changes in the Denali package and the new packages on the larger SUV's The trucks will soon follow.
If there is no profit from GMC then it would go away. Do not expect that anytime soon.
If there is no profit from GMC then it would go away. Do not expect that anytime soon.
Yeah I guess I'm trying to solve a non-existent problem. If GMC wasn't profitable it would not have survived the bankruptcy. In this case profit over-rides logic.
Also confirms the world perception that Americans are idiots. In Japan if you want a high end Toyota you go into a dealership and buy a high end Toyota. You don't have to be tricked into buying some car with a computer generated name that sounds more expensive, (Lexus). But in the US people are too silly to realize that a Sierra or a Denali is just a Chevy wearing a fancy suit. I imagine there are GMC owners that would buy Fords if their Jimmys went away. I don't understand it but apparently that's the deal.
