This guy pulled into the driveway and said I used to sell those, you know that's a Toyota, I almost took his head off, Are people that stupid, even after I showed him the back and Pontiac he insisted it was made by Toyota, he told me when they first came out he sold them and was told they were made by Toyota. WTF
I don't know if he sold something that looked like it or he was just off his nut but I know he is wrong about my 86 SE.
For those here who don't know me I work at a GM assembly plant from 1973 until 1990 and then went down to work for Saturn after that. I saw the Fiero in my Massachusetts plant, the superstructure in the penthouse we called it, we were supposed to get the new Lumina mini van. and the Fiero was the prototype for that, the way they are made with a superstructure and plastic panels. that was the early 80s, 1980, 81 if I remember right that the Fieros superstructure was in my plant.
anyway he still insisted that the car was made by Toyota, WTF are people really still that dunb?
edit to add
I don't like foreign cars, I have never owned a foreign car and never will.
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 04-11-2014).]
+1 on hating rice burners. I work at a car dealership and they all feel cheap, unsafe, and clunky compared to our american cars.
Was he old enough to have dementia? I supposed he mistook the Fiero for an MR2, basically Toyota's version of a mid-engined sports car in the 80's...
He was my age, late 50s but I just was so pissed off I almost lost it on him, Melanie my wife was there when he said that and almost told him he could leave the property right now. But for him to insist it was a Toyota after I showed him the PONTIAC on the back just made me go WTF.
Steve
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 04-11-2014).]
Talk about something that catches fire. I used to have some rice burners. They are fire prone, constantly break down, cost a fortune, and are just plain designed wrong. I can't even sit comfortably in them. I agree. No quality there. No reliability, either. Parts fall off. Cheap is their game, and cheap they are.
I was rather happy when I overheard a discussion comparing my '88 GT to a 2006 honda parked nearby. The excuse for the Honda being so aged and rusted was that it was older than the "Pontiac".
Talk about something that catches fire. I used to have some rice burners. They are fire prone, constantly break down, cost a fortune, and are just plain designed wrong. I can't even sit comfortably in them. I agree. No quality there. No reliability, either. Parts fall off. Cheap is their game, and cheap they are.
I was rather happy when I overheard a discussion comparing my '88 GT to a 2006 honda parked nearby. The excuse for the Honda being so aged and rusted was that it was older than the "Pontiac".
He obviously didn't know what a Fiero was and thought it was an MR2.
I don't have the emblem on the front so you could be right, except that I showed him the back, you know with the Name Pontiac in the bumper. he still said it was made by Toyota and had a Toyota engine in it. I swear if he said that one more time I would have gone into the shop and grabbed my biggest pry bar and taken his head off. And I have some dam big pry bars!
Steve
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 04-13-2014).]
What a dumba## Right before I bought my first Fiero last year I looked at an MR2 and it felt flimsy and cheap and fragile. I also test drove a brand new Hyundai Elantra last year and it too felt fragile.
I bought 7 new Saturn's in the 90's and went to two homecomings at the factory in Spring Hill. I once had the husband of a woman that worked with me try to tell me that Saturn was part of Toyota. Its usually people that are know it alls that tell you stupid things like that.
Wooooo-Weeeee ....the Toyota "hate" is practically knee deep in this here thread. Excuse me gentleman but I would like to be the first one here to proclaim that I am doggone proud of my trusty little Toyota pickup! Man, I feel like singing a little tune here........"Oh what a feeling, Toyota!" Kit
[This message has been edited by Kitskaboodle (edited 04-11-2014).]
Maybe I'm in the minority, but this family has both a Fiero and a 2001 MR2 Spyder. >.>
Granted, my Fiero's still running well on its original engine and the wife's Spyder's already swallowed its pre-cats and destroyed its engine... but they're both nice cars nonetheless.
Once the Fiero gets done, the MR2 is getting a 2ZZ swap and a 6-speed manual. It's got a used 1ZZ and 5-speed in there at the moment. It's not the best car in the world for my tall ass, but it's literally the perfect car for my wife. She loves it. And I don't blame her. It's balanced, light and a far cry from what the 1st-gen MR2 was. (The chassis is actually stiff!) It accelerates decently for its size and relative lack of power, and gets a good 34 MPG with the top up, 31 with the top down. Let's just say, despite the stupid !@(*#ing pre-cat collapse issue, it's one of the better cars I've driven.
If your import works for you, great. I like something solid, reliable, and comfortable. I found it in my American cars. Cars reflect the driver, and vise versa. The fact that the Fiero is fun is just a bonus.
Don't get me wrong, I love my American cars too. I have two Fiero's and a Reatta but when it comes to ultimate reliability nothing has matched my Toyota pickup. I thought my mileage was unusually high (335K) until I talked to other Toyota 22R owners. Many had 200K, 300K, one lady had over 400K and a friend of mine (that has an 84) has over 500K on his. (he goes to L.A. a lot from the Bay Area) And yes, these are all orginal engines that have never been taken apart . Kit
Don't get me wrong, I love my American cars too. I have two Fiero's and a Reatta but when it comes to ultimate reliability nothing has matched my Toyota pickup. I thought my mileage was unusually high (335K) until I talked to other Toyota 22R owners. Many had 200K, 300K, one lady had over 400K and a friend of mine (that has an 84) has over 500K on his. (he goes to L.A. a lot from the Bay Area) And yes, these are all orginal engines that have never been taken apart . Kit
All my Burbs I have put on over 300,000 miles and never replaced anything that wasn't rust related damage or of my own doing, towing way to big a load or trailer to much. Toyota and everyone one else has their lovers and haters, but me, if it ain't American I ain't driving it and don't even want it in my driveway.
The point is this guy really thought it was a Toyota even after I showed him it was a Pontiac. WTF he can't be that stupid. and he still insisted it had a Toyota motor in it, couldn't get the engine compartment open yesterday, something tells me he will be back again, then I will be prepared and have her out of the snow and ice and the manual sitting in the passenger seat.
I agree that the Toyota 4 cylinder is a good engine but the 3.4 V6 not so much so, I spent $1200 on a 97 4Runner 3.4 last year having the heads removed for new gaskets and it still was losing anti-freeze even after a new radiator too, (134,000 miles). Last month an old lady stopped short in front of me and I hit the back of her and it caved in the front and totaled the truck but her vehicle had minor damage. The sheet metal is pretty thin and the doors were very light meaning no crash beam and thin metal
Wooooo-Weeeee ....the Toyota "hate" is practically knee deep in this here thread.
It's only knee deep if you jump in head first back to the original post he must have thought it was an mr2 I had a 20 something tell me once he knew what my Fiero was but insisted it was built in Italy . No talking him out of it so just went with it , made me feel rich
Maybe he was confused with the Pontiac Vibe / Toyota Matrix story...
"The Pontiac Vibe was a compact hatchback automobile sold under the Pontiac marque from 2002 to 2010. It was jointly developed by General Motors along with Toyota, who manufactures the mechanically identical Toyota Matrix. Manufactured by the Toyota-GM joint venture NUMMI in Fremont, California."
OR, the guy's the kind of idiot that's so convinced "he's right" that you can't reason with him.
Yep, they are. I'm just sorry they're in Maine too (I like it up there). The government really oughta try to confine them all into one place. There are plenty of suitable places in california with a good head start - LA, silicon valley (no offense Kit, i'm referring to the people who designed my android phone) ...
You wanna get upset with stupid people, try ordering at McDonald's around here ....
[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 04-13-2014).]
You lost it on him?? You almost took his head off.. For what-?? Not correctly identifying a 26 year old car?? Geez.... Why not break his jaw, or grab a shotgun if he fails some more automotive trivia. By the way, there is no such thing as a "foreign" car anymore. My new Toyota is built in the USA by American workers. My neighbour's new GM is basically a European Opel. Many Ford cars are built around the world. Car companies are international organizations, where supply chain, ownership, labour, marketing, etc are overseen by hundreds of thousands of people on all continents. There is no such thing as an "American..or Japanese" car anymore... hasn't been in many years.
Cam-a-lot is correct but it still doesn't mean the guy wasn't a stupid know it all. There are "good" cars being built by Japanese parent companies and also American parent companies. Each car model is different and suits different people and interests.
You lost it on him?? You almost took his head off.. For what-?? Not correctly identifying a 26 year old car?? Geez.... Why not break his jaw, or grab a shotgun if he fails some more automotive trivia. By the way, there is no such thing as a "foreign" car anymore. My new Toyota is built in the USA by American workers. My neighbour's new GM is basically a European Opel. Many Ford cars are built around the world. Car companies are international organizations, where supply chain, ownership, labour, marketing, etc are overseen by hundreds of thousands of people on all continents. There is no such thing as an "American..or Japanese" car anymore... hasn't been in many years.
You need a reality check and to re-read my post, I said I almost lost it
not that I did.
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:
This guy pulled into the driveway and said I used to sell those, you know that's a Toyota, I almost took his head off, Are people that stupid, even after I showed him the back and Pontiac he insisted it was made by Toyota, he told me when they first came out he sold them and was told they were made by Toyota. WTF
I don't know if he sold something that looked like it or he was just off his nut but I know he is wrong about my 86 SE.
For those here who don't know me I work at a GM assembly plant from 1973 until 1990 and then went down to work for Saturn after that. I saw the Fiero in my Massachusetts plant, the superstructure in the penthouse we called it, we were supposed to get the new Lumina mini van. and the Fiero was the prototype for that, the way they are made with a superstructure and plastic panels. that was the early 80s, 1980, 81 if I remember right that the Fieros superstructure was in my plant.
anyway he still insisted that the car was made by Toyota, WTF are people really still that dunb?
edit to add
I don't like foreign cars, I have never owned a foreign car and never will.
Steve
I also have video of him doing this, we have a security camera and recorder pointed at the end of the driveway 24/7 but the cats had unplugged the sound so there is no sound on it, but you can see me showing him the back of the car and trying to reason with him.
we can't see the end of the driveway from the house and have had neighbor problems in the past, check out my "Good fences make good neighbors my ass." thread if you want to read a good thread about stupid people, its in the archives now and about 20 something pages long.
Steve
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 04-13-2014).]
It's all politics. We wanted to rebuild japan, so we funded them and provided a start for their manufacturering. To level the playing field by forcing American manufacturers to start over, the government camr up with FWD and the catalytic converter. This destroyed many quality manufacturers, whose cars were getting more than 1 million miles on them as taxis. Checker cabs, anyone? Even my '77 Dodge van racked up over 700,000 miles, before the timing chain broke. I own several vehicles now, and the only one under 300,000 miles is my Fiero. Of course, repairs are costly. $600 for tires and an alignment on my Avalnche, $250 for an alternator for my Impala, $100 for brakes for my Tahoe. Don't even ask what it costs to replace the last 2 plugs on my Firebird. My Fiero is also expensive. $120 for a battery, plus all the upgrades...and repairing the damage from a hit-and-run in a parking lot.
By comparison, my mazda 3 cost about $6,000 a year to fix shocks, replace the radiator, replace the end links, replace the engine mounts, and the constant little maintenance things that escape the warranty. I solt it around 89,xxx miles. The mazda 6 went through 3 engines and 2 transmissions before it was upgraded to a millenium. The engine expired leaving the dealership. On to nissan. Something went in the upper engine. I drove a camry for over 6 months whiole waiting on the nissan to be fixed. The dealer gave me my money back, because they couldn't find a part that would last. Apparently a run of defects. Meanwhile, the camry had the exhaust fall off, left me stranded due to electrical issues, and was a piece of junk. Probably the sloppiest car I've ever driven. I got a Tundra. They're not safe for anything. After a series of transmission rebuilds, I concluded they are useless for towing. Lost it with a trailer, due to brake failure. It was--you guessed it--a design flaw.
We can go back and forth with examples, but I'm a proponent for what works. I used to do testing for various manufacturers, and the stats went in comsumer magazines, among other places. I've only had jappanese cars get broken frames and strand me on test drives. Note that I quit that, due to the arrival of my first child. I have driven a LOT of cars, and owned a fair number of cars. To see the difference in quality, watch the interior of the jappanese cars fall apart--usually with the rest of the car--after a few years. I don't just mean sun damage. The dials get soft and misshapen--or hard and crack. All the paint chips off the dash and instrument cluster. The cloth disintegrates. Look at domestic car for design marvels--or a jappanese car for design stupitidy--I mean simplicity.
By the way, the mr2 was copied from the Fiero, and the jappanese still needed help from Lotus.
Regardless of where the cars are made, or what the badging says, quality is what I'm looking for. It is a shame that "domestic" manufacturers have gone the route of sacrificing quality by having jappanese and korean manufacturers dilute the quality of their brand by using inferior design in shared ventures. For this reason, I stick with V8s and RWD, where possible. Most v6s and almost all 4-bangers are made by low-quality "partners". I abhor FWD, so avoid those vehicles. I do not support the infiltration of our once proud quality lines by inferior products.
Jappanese cars have flash, glitz, and glamour, but that's about it. I want comfort, quality, and reliability. It is a shame that we have so easily given up the standards we once held, and now wouldn't know quality of we saw it.
Rrgardless of where built, the design is flawed, substandard, inferior, and without merit. American workers don't design jappanese, korean, or chinese cars. We Americans are giving up our skills, for what? Cheap. No matter how well these poorly-designed cars are assembled, the design will still be sub-par.
If something works for you, great. If you don't mind sending your money overseas, my conscience is clear. Sell off/out America. Just pick up your parts off the road, so I don't have to drive over/around them. Next time something on your car fails, look where it was made.
More proof at how little most sales people know about the products they sell.
This.
Become knowledgeable about any product and its easy to know more than the guy selling it. Cars, electronics, appliances, etc. They're all the same. The guy selling cars today was probably hawking washers and dryers last week.
Become knowledgeable about any product and its easy to know more than the guy selling it. Cars, electronics, appliances, etc. They're all the same. The guy selling cars today was probably hawking washers and dryers last week.
How true. The salespeople at best buy don't even know what's on the product box.
Love my American made Toyota Tundra... had 5 Dodge Ram's all made in Mexico!
1. 2013 Ford F-150 (tie)
Percent U.S./Canadian Content: 75 Final Assembly Country: U.S. Engine Source: U.S. Transmission Source: U.S. Kogod Made in America Auto Index Score: 87.5
2013 Toyota Tundra 2013 Toyota Tundra (tie)
Percent U.S./Canadian Content: 75 Final Assembly Country: U.S. Engine Source: U.S. Transmission Source: U.S. Kogod Made in America Auto Index Score: 78.5
2013 Honda Ridgeline 2. 2013 Honda Ridgeline
Percent U.S./Canadian Content: 70 Final Assembly Country: U.S. Engine Source: U.S. Transmission Source: U.S. Kogod Made in America Auto Index Score: 76
Percent U.S./Canadian Content: 67 Final Assembly Country: U.S. and Mexico Engine Source: U.S. and Mexico Transmission Source: U.S. and Mexico Kogod Made in America Auto Index Score: 83.5
2013 Chevrolet Avalanche 2013 Chevrolet Avalanche (tie)
Percent U.S./Canadian Content: 67 Final Assembly Country: U.S. and Mexico Engine Source: U.S. and Mexico Transmission Source: U.S. and Mexico Kogod Made in America Auto Index Score: 83.5
2013 Chevrolet Silverado 2013 Chevrolet Silverado (tie)
Percent U.S./Canadian Content: 67 Final Assembly Country: U.S. and Mexico Engine Source: U.S. and Mexico Transmission Source: U.S. and Mexico Kogod Made in America Auto Index Score: 83.5
2013 GMC Sierra 2013 GMC Sierra (tie)
Percent U.S./Canadian Content: 67 Final Assembly Country: U.S. and Mexico Engine Source: U.S. and Mexico Transmission Source: U.S. and Mexico Kogod Made in America Auto Index Score: 83.5
2013 Ram 2013 Ram (tie)
Percent U.S./Canadian Content: 67 Final Assembly Country: U.S. and Mexico Engine Source: U.S. and Mexico Transmission Source: U.S. and Germany Kogod Made in America Auto Index Score: 83.5
Toyota and Honda have plants in the US. Just 40 miles from me is a huge Honda plant thats been there like 30 years. They make Acuras, Accords and motorcycles I think...and the new sports car this summer. I still call them Japanese because the money goes mostly back to Japan. Wherever US cars get their parts from, if the money stays here, its a US car. Chrysler is on shakey ground there now that they are owned by Fiat. I still cant call a Chrysler a European import though. I dont have anything to back it up, but even if Fiat owns it, I think most of the money stays in the US and most of them are made here.
I prefer not to send profits back to other countries if I can, keeping the good ole dollar here helps the USA
So yeah, no choice buying a TV that's not from Asia, but I sure will continue to support car companys where the profits are not sent back to the motherland.
[This message has been edited by Back On Holiday (edited 04-13-2014).]
Maybe he was confused with the Pontiac Vibe / Toyota Matrix story...
"The Pontiac Vibe was a compact hatchback automobile sold under the Pontiac marque from 2002 to 2010. It was jointly developed by General Motors along with Toyota, who manufactures the mechanically identical Toyota Matrix. Manufactured by the Toyota-GM joint venture NUMMI in Fremont, California."
OR, the guy's the kind of idiot that's so convinced "he's right" that you can't reason with him.
I have a friend that works at a body shop and he said they pulled the front bumper cover off a Pontiac Vibe and "Toyota" was stamped on the back!
You never know.
Spoon
------------------ "Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut
I have a friend that works at a body shop and he said they pulled the front bumper cover off a Pontiac Vibe and "Toyota" was stamped on the back!
You never know.
Spoon
Yes. I had a Vibe. Sold after 14K miles, but it had toyota stamped all over the place...the fuse box cover, a lot of the coolant parts, the various parts on the engine, the transmission, the poor quality, the interior, etc, etc. The only toyota part that didn't fail was the fuse box cover.
The Fieto actually was supposedly made here; however, I see Fiero Store parts are sometimes made overseas...and the poor quality shows there, too. The Aveo is korean, and falls apart just like kias and hyundais. Rodney Dickman uses some taiwanese parts, and I'm hoping they hold up better.
Become knowledgeable about any product and its easy to know more than the guy selling it. Cars, electronics, appliances, etc. They're all the same. The guy selling cars today was probably hawking washers and dryers last week.
Yes. It applies to everything. I often run into salesman explaining their product that dont know squat about it. Thats from cell phones to motorhomes.
I prefer not to send profits back to other countries if I can, keeping the good ole dollar here helps the USA
So yeah, no choice buying a TV that's not from Asia, but I sure will continue to support car companys where the profits are not sent back to the motherland.
Originally posted by Back On Holiday: I prefer not to send profits back to other countries if I can, keeping the good ole dollar here helps the USA
So yeah, no choice buying a TV that's not from Asia, but I sure will continue to support car companys where the profits are not sent back to the motherland.
I'd suggest doing more research first. I bet you'd be surprised at what you find. Just because GM/Chrysler/Ford were founded here, doesn't mean the money is going to stay here. You really have to dig to make any factual statement about where that money goes. You have to look at assembly line worker wages and benefits, how much each manufacturer pays in state and federal taxes, etc… and that information isn't easy to find or sift through. I've started trying to find some of that info, but it's not easy.
I'll bet that the results will be surprising to some of the people who are all gung-ho about "Buy American!" though, at least if they will actually look at the facts, and not dismiss it. I'd be happy to be wrong, but I'd also be willing to bet that Toyota and Honda might actually keep more money in the country than the Big Three do.
The thing is to me an MR2 looks nothing like a Fiero.
I bet you could have had any car with flip up headlights in your driveway and the guy would have spouted off the same "facts".
If a guy is not a car guy enough to know they look different, he should probably keep his mouth closed other than to ask questions...or he for sure is a "know it all".
I would simply have told him that he was trespassing on private property and should leave immediately ! I just have no patience with stupid. Dumb can be fixed but STUPID is to the bone.
I'd suggest doing more research first. I bet you'd be surprised at what you find. Just because GM/Chrysler/Ford were founded here, doesn't mean the money is going to stay here. You really have to dig to make any factual statement about where that money goes. You have to look at assembly line worker wages and benefits, how much each manufacturer pays in state and federal taxes, etc… and that information isn't easy to find or sift through. I've started trying to find some of that info, but it's not easy.
I'll bet that the results will be surprising to some of the people who are all gung-ho about "Buy American!" though, at least if they will actually look at the facts, and not dismiss it. I'd be happy to be wrong, but I'd also be willing to bet that Toyota and Honda might actually keep more money in the country than the Big Three do.
Says the guy with a Honda emblem for his avatar, WTF are you even here for?
Did you not read my first post? I worked for GM at their Framingham, MA assembly plant and Saturn in TN, and so did my dad for 30 years. I support American products when ever I can. between the workers here in the US and the taxes they pay, the plants the company still has left here and the taxes they pay and the parts manufacturers that are in the US and the taxes they pay as well as the companies they work for pay, you have one hell of a lot of money going back into the US economy. that so called % American list posted above is BS because the imports that are made here send most of their profits right back to their home country now don't they. GM is owned here by many Americans, hell I even owned stock in the company when I worked there.
my car and your Fiero, if you even have one or ever did, where made where? in Pontiac, Michigan before NAFTA and most of the parts were made here in America, most I said because even back then GM was outsourcing because they are and always have been nothing but a greedy corporation. they screwed me out of many of my money making suggestion I put in, as well as many other peoples and sent jobs overseas, while giving the management types huge bonuses. while people like you said it was all the hourly union types fault, we never did a thing or could do a thing, but build the cars. management was who decided to dump the Fiero, make the Vega, cut inspectors from the line, drop cars that were popular and make cars that were not. our own representatives in Washington are only out for themselves and the more money they can make for themselves from those so called corporations and the men who give them money to vote for the Japs to get All those tax brakes to build their cars in their states.
Steve
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 04-14-2014).]
So your thinking you might have hidden Toyota stampings on your Fiero?
No hidden stampings but I do have a resevoir cap for the power steering pump which says Toyota. Its from a MR2 but I put it there...
Spoon
------------------ "Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut
