I could be wrong, but most of the Fiero vendors seem to have other real jobs. Some vendors have dropped items, due to time constraints. Take projectorretrofit, for example.
Speaking of Ken, I'm waiting on a price clarification, if it's one window or a pair, and on the codes, which are the same for both GT & notchie tinted windows. And before anyone asks, I'll wait a reasonable time, then move on, if I don't get a reply. I wouldn't want notchie windows for my GT.
I have ordered quarter windows from another vendor who actually gets them from another vendor and resells them. They were poorly packaged, with one being in the plastic bag from the original vendor, and the other window just inserted into the box. Poor quality all the way around with trash and scratches. It was suggested that I polish out the scratches on the front surface and touch up the scratches in the black paint. The black background felt very soft and could be easily scratched with a fingernail.
I contacted Chris Cook and spoke with him personally about his process. Having printed acrylic sheeting for about 30 years, I knew what to ask and I knew what the answers should be. Chris had the correct answers as far as what was used in the printing process. I ordered a pair and installed them. I did a trial fitment before applying the tape, so that I knew where they should be placed. They do fit snug against the drip rails and may make it difficult to remove the rails in the future.
Placement of the front strip of tape can make a big difference in whether the top corner of the window hits the quarter window. If not placed forward and high enough, the top of the window tends to stand out just enough that the door glass can catch it. I also had a spot where the white surface of the tape was exposed, so I used an Xacto knife to trim back to the edge of the glass and peel the excess away before it set too solidly.
We have little choice of where we get these windows. Agreed with no2pencil that we should encourage anyone to make a better product through constructive criticism.
I've never used or seen Ken Hines's windows, but I thought he was out of business. Or am I mistaking him for someone else?
Originally posted by tshark: Speaking of Ken, I'm waiting on a price clarification, if it's one window or a pair, and on the codes, which are the same for both GT & notchie tinted windows. And before anyone asks, I'll wait a reasonable time, then move on, if I don't get a reply. I wouldn't want notchie windows for my GT.
I ordered a set of GT panels from kahnies on eBay a while back. Haven't got them installed yet though. There's another member of the local club that has them installed on his car, and they do look excellent and fit pretty much perfectly.
As IMSA said, the price is for the pair. I just looked at his web site, and indeed the order codes look incorrect for several of the panels. The GTWC code is I think for the fastback clear, and GTWT would be fore the tinted (the web site describes those as the reverse). Not sure what the notchie code should be, though.
He does occasionally sell some panels on eBay, for a lower price (probably to get rid of some extra stock). If you're not in a hurry, you might want to just follow him on eBay (kahines), and nab a set when they pop up. The price was too good to not buy them for me, when I saw them there, even though I wasn't planning to install them for some time.
Originally posted by fierofool: I've never used or seen Ken Hines's windows, but I thought he was out of business. Or am I mistaking him for someone else?
Maybe you're thinking of pokeyfiero, who I think acquired the OEM tooling for making the panels, but then was never able to get production going, AFAIK. There have been a couple of other people trying to make some in the past as well.
Maybe you're thinking of pokeyfiero, who I think acquired the OEM tooling for making the panels, but then was never able to get production going, AFAIK. There have been a couple of other people trying to make some in the past as well.
No, I was thinking of Ken. I know of both pokey and Ken. Yes, pokey made CNC'd aluminum molds to form the windows. I think health and other issues killed the endeavor after considerable time and capital investment. I think he was on the right track and wish he'd been successful.
After doing a search, I think it was Doug at Fierowarehouse that quit making the windows, not Ken Hines.
I have ordered quarter windows from another vendor who actually gets them from another vendor and resells them. They were poorly packaged, with one being in the plastic bag from the original vendor, and the other window just inserted into the box. Poor quality all the way around with trash and scratches. It was suggested that I polish out the scratches on the front surface and touch up the scratches in the black paint. The black background felt very soft and could be easily scratched with a fingernail.
I contacted Chris Cook and spoke with him personally about his process. Having printed acrylic sheeting for about 30 years, I knew what to ask and I knew what the answers should be. Chris had the correct answers as far as what was used in the printing process. I ordered a pair and installed them. I did a trial fitment before applying the tape, so that I knew where they should be placed. They do fit snug against the drip rails and may make it difficult to remove the rails in the future.
Placement of the front strip of tape can make a big difference in whether the top corner of the window hits the quarter window. If not placed forward and high enough, the top of the window tends to stand out just enough that the door glass can catch it. I also had a spot where the white surface of the tape was exposed, so I used an Xacto knife to trim back to the edge of the glass and peel the excess away before it set too solidly.
We have little choice of where we get these windows. Agreed with no2pencil that we should encourage anyone to make a better product through constructive criticism.
I've never used or seen Ken Hines's windows, but I thought he was out of business. Or am I mistaking him for someone else?
This is a VERY good post. While gently chiding my delivery, fierofool makes his points and backs them up.
I guess the biggest part of my being upset was that Chris may be the best option out there. Not taking anything away from Ken.
Fierofool, you are a good example for me in this post. I will strive to do better in my criticism.
No, I was thinking of Ken. I know of both pokey and Ken. Yes, pokey made CNC'd aluminum molds to form the windows. I think health and other issues killed the endeavor after considerable time and capital investment. I think he was on the right track and wish he'd been successful.
After doing a search, I think it was Doug at Fierowarehouse that quit making the windows, not Ken Hines.
Too bad about people like pokey. A number of Fiero vendors have died or had to scale back, due to health reasons. Even Archie is retiring. Let's face it: without some new blood, we'll lose a lot of our vendors and members within the next 10 years.
I was wondering earlier if we could actually muster 2014 Fieros for a cruise. I mean, from all over the US. How many are still on the road? Some people have a garage full, while others just have 1. I saw in another thread where someone was trying to figure how many are still on the road.
Thanks for the compliment. I really wasn't chiding anyone. Just what I'd like to see for those that are making the effort to produce things we need. At one time there were many variations of parts to fill that quarter window space, but gradually those vendors have gone away. Whether it be because of poor quality product, lack of fast turnaround of product, or as you suggested, old timers like me just don't last forever. Though Chris's windows were my choice because of the material used, there was still a little variation from the OEM fitment. I suppose this may be due to the way they are cut from the full sheet. They can be cut with a hot die or they must be cut with a template and router. Hot dies and equipment are expensive. Templates and routers create variations in size. Because flat sheeting cannot be screen printed to the complete edge, the piece should be oversize then routed back into the color to create the color 'bleed' off the edges.
Routing causes the edge of the sheeting to cloud, so then in order to make an aesthetically acceptable piece, it should be buffed around the edges, being careful not to create too much heat, causing bubbles in the material.
Edit to insert: Someone posted a short time ago that they had used their dad's computer to search DMV records for Fieros. There was somewhere near 30,000 still registered in the US.
Vacuum forming is the trickiest part. The window must be held in precise register to make the part fit, even if it were originally cut perfectly. Just a slight variation in the angle of the front curve can make the tail end ride very high or very low.
In my application, though the GT lettering was very good, we were already planning to cover that. We used the front fender GT from a Mustang to place on the surface of the window.
(Used to live on Dunn Road at the river, then moved to Pear Tree Lane in St. Ann. When asked where was I when Kennedy was killed, I was at a grocery store at Village Square.)
[This message has been edited by fierofool (edited 04-19-2014).]
They aren't the same. Chris's black background is printed in it's entirety. The TFS window I received had the solid black background sprayed on. This is the first set. I don't know whose windows they are, but you can see the delamination and the reason for replacing them. They also showed signs that the background had been sprayed on.
Are the Fierostore windows any good then? The delam set is an unknown vendor or do you believe it to be FS? edit.. Re-read your post. So those delams are Fierostore? I will stay away...
[This message has been edited by smartaxel (edited 04-19-2014).]
I can't say that they did come from TFS, but they were produced in the same manner as the ones I did receive from FieroJon who repackaged TFS windows.
We are dealing with aftermarket windows. Our little guys don't have the capital and tooling to be as precise as GM. Expect a little variation, but don't accept anything that is obviously poor quality. Judging by past threads, TFS either regularly monitors the forum for mention of TFS or The Fiero Store or someone reports to them, so hopefully Matt will accept this discussion as not a condemnation of their windows, but as our input to make them better. And I hope that would apply to any vendor who produces quarter windows or any other product for the Fiero. Use us as a focus group.
No, I was thinking of Ken. I know of both pokey and Ken. Yes, pokey made CNC'd aluminum molds to form the windows. I think health and other issues killed the endeavor after considerable time and capital investment. I think he was on the right track and wish he'd been successful.
After doing a search, I think it was Doug at Fierowarehouse that quit making the windows, not Ken Hines.
Oh. Right. Maybe TFS has the original molds for making OEM windows? At least, the price they charge would seem to suggest they should be OEM.
Bought these after a bad experience with trying to get a purchased set from mslori, eventually after some nudging I got a set in the mail which she claimed was good ones and not the blemished first run, long story short, I got a set that wasn't perfect but was the color and design I was looking for, so I did some touchup on the ones I got and installed them, and sold these to PK86 which was a great alternative had I not gotten my blue ones.
I bought Kin Hines' quarter windows, didn't like them and sold them again. Got Chris Cook's tinted windows, liked them and they're on my car now. My only complaint would be that they aren't completely uniform in their curvature but have some warping that reflects the light irregularly - it's minor, though.
I bought Kin Hines' quarter windows, didn't like them and sold them again. Got Chris Cook's tinted windows, liked them and they're on my car now. My only complaint would be that they aren't completely uniform in their curvature but have some warping that reflects the light irregularly - it's minor, though.
I just got my Chris Cook (gtfieros) windows in the mail today. I haven't put them on the car yet, but I did compare them to what I've got on the car now. I have every reason to believe my current quarter windows are original, but can't actually be positive. I've only had the car since February.
Unfortunately, as I don't have three hands, I couldn't manage to line up a photo with the new window over the existing ones on the car. I'll try to take one of those when I actually do the swap (probably this weekend). To me, they looked to be pretty accurate in size and angles when I was lining them up.
Also, sorry for:
1. The photographer reflections, it was very bright out today.
2. The photos are quite large, so I think you have to click them to make them load.
3. The photos are hosted on imgur.com, as PIP seems to only do uploads through a Windows .exe program?
Here's what I'm starting with:
Driver-side is fine:
On the passenger side, if you look closely, a trained eye will notice a slight blemish...
After reading this thread (and some others), I wasn't sure how similar the windows would be. I ordered both sides so I could be sure they'd match. The apparent height difference in this photo is simply how they were leaning.
For those complaining about the fitment, here is how the quarter windows fit on my car now. Only driver-side pictured, passenger was the same, just with more pieces.
Rear corner:
Bottom Edge:
So there was a gap before, at least on my car. I never noticed until actually taking this photo (and you may not have noticed in the whole-window shots above from eye level). Had I not noticed now and simply removed the window, I'd imagine I'd be worried about the gap when fitting the new ones. Again, I can't be positive these are the original windows, but based on the rest of the vehicle, I don't have any particular reason to doubt it.
Also, here's a comparison of the lettering:
Original detail:
Chris Cook (gtfieros) detail:
Also, Chris' windows do have a very slight flat spot. I didn't notice them until I was taking detail photos:
It's hard to show in a picture. I also tried a video, but it doesn't seem to help too much either.
I hope to have some time to tackle the windows this weekend. Depending on how things look, I might only replace the passenger side, and leave the driver-side as-is.
I guess I was just lucky. The windows I purchased from Chris weren't perfect fits, but they have stayed on the car without the black background peeling off after a few months. They, like most other aftermarket GT windows are not exact faithful reproductions of OEM, but they were the best I could find. :I had no problems in communicating with Chris, and even spoke with him in person before ordering. My windows were wrapped and packaged in bubble wrap and suffered no damage whatsoever during shipment. Neither do they have that little dent at the back end. The NOS window I received from a GM dealer in Maine was just stuck in a box in a clear plastic bag. It had the lower front corner chipped off during shipping.
When I placed my application tape, I stuck it flush with the edge of the opening instead of at the outer edges of the recess against the main body of the car. I did this to allow for any variation in size. The tape could have also been applied to the window first, the way OEM NOS windows were delivered. That would have eliminated the problem with visible application tape.
I replaced my 87 windows with NOS windows, and they weren't perfect fit, either. So, it looks like there may have been some variation in the production of the GT upper clip, or in the production of the GT quarterwindows.
To do these things like OEM requires a lot of capital investment. Considering what pokey went through with people biatching about the price of what was to be a perfect reproduction, I can see why we get what many consider to be inferior. We always want the product to be as good or better than GM made it, but we don't want to pay the price. It's been said many times about us. We are a cheap bunch of bastards. The last pair of NOS windows I bought from a dealer were priced at over $200 each and I've seen people here blow a gasket when the price of aftermarket windows were $200 a pair.
I sure as hell hope pokey can get his windows into production. I think time will work on his side as we either have to pay his price or buy and enjoy the no curvature-don't fit properly-paint peels off aftermarket windows or just leave the ugly quarter window hole open and uncovered.
John, I remember a few years back when you sent me a Pm asking for Chris' info so you could order a set. Which is why I feel like I have some responsibility in the frustration you're experiencing and I feel like I should apologize to you for having been the source of the recommendation. Had I known there was a chance that you would be dissatisfied I never would have recommended him.
That being said, I've had my hands on about 10 sets of his windows and never had any trouble, but I do know that Chris makes each set as the orders come in and they're all made by hand, so I guess I was just on a lucky streak and maybe you were the recipient of a mis-measurment on his part.
Whatever the reason, I'm very sorry you're having such a hard time with the windows and I would appreciate the opportunity to at least buy you a few drinks or raffle tickets or something when we see you in Frazee this year.
Bobby-
[This message has been edited by fieroguy123 (edited 06-10-2014).]
Does anyone know who makes the Fierostore quarter windows? They look like Chris'?
quote
Originally posted by fierofool:
They aren't the same. Chris's black background is printed in it's entirety. The TFS window I received had the solid black background sprayed on. This is the first set. I don't know whose windows they are, but you can see the delamination and the reason for replacing them. They also showed signs that the background had been sprayed on.
We usually carry both Ken Hines and Chris Cook quarter windows. However, Ken Hines has not shipped us any windows in quite a while. Given the high demand for quarter windows, we have found Chris Cook's to be the best available option. For what it may or may not be worth, the quality of the last batch of GM originals was not very good compared to prior batches. We have a few sets of NOS windows still in GM boxes and they're pretty rough.
Too bad Doug at the Fiero Warehouse stop making them as I personally preferred his over the others (knew I should have bought another set at the time).
Before we jump on this wagon, does anyone have any experience with this vendor?
quote
Another option are Fiero Fiberglass's window replacements. They are hollow in the center, and can be finished in many different ways.
We have a set of these, Max opted to just paint these himself... would have been better to have them painted by the seller!! Max has re-sanded, painted, re-sanded, painted etc. etc. at least 3 times now and the windows are still sitting waiting to be refinished to put on the car! We thought the original problem was the original gel coat hadn't set long enough to allow the thinner to dissipate making the paint bubble when it was sprayed on... shrug... but even after sitting for months (it will be years now) the problem still persists and the windows still aren't on the car!! lol maybe if we just use black spray paint out of an aerosol can... laugh... hey, if it works, it works... we have other cars that are in need of replacement windows!!
Does anybody have an idea where I can get the triangle piece of glass that fits into the side windows that the Fiero Store sold some time back? I lost that on one of the windows and took out the other one to make them look even... or my suggestion was to get some Plexiglas and just cut it to fit, for some reason Max didn't like that idea...
Well, After Chris telling me "There is nothing wrong with the window", "They are the correct size, it's because you put the tape on the car and not the windows", and finally "It is because you do not have a drip rail on your car". He was INSISTENT that the windows were the correct size, even after I compared them to over 20 other Fieros in Daytona last year, and they were larger that any of the windows on those 20 Fieros.
Well now I have irrefutable evidence that they were 100% NOT THE RIGHT SIZE.
With the ongoing issues with Maaco, they wound up really messing up the quarter windows on the car. They agreed to replace them, so I gave them the original invoice from Chris Cook. The windows got here a few days ago, and I got a chance to have a look at them, and directly compare them to the windows that I thought were too small.
Guess what, they WERE too small. I placed the new one face down on a table, I put a 2x4 right up against what would be the bottom edge of the window. I then placed the old window directly on top, and also slid it against the 2x4 so both bottom edges are exactly aligned and flush with each other. What this left, was the old window was just over a half inch shorter than the new replacements. Also note the "rolled edge" is non existent on the old window. Lastly the cutouts that go just behind where the door closes, are totally different, and are not even close!
I installed both of the replacement windows on my car this evening, and they fit perfectly this time. Yes, I still put the tape on the car first, and even in doing so they fit correctly. They go directly edge to edge top to bottom. There are NO gaps anywhere around the window.
So Chris, if you are watching this thread, do you still insist that the windows were the correct size? I will say this, even with the problems I had with Maaco in the past, I have to admit, when they screwed up the windows, they did the right thing and replaced them. Too bad Chris can not stand behind his work like that.
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 08-15-2015).]
And when no one makes them any more everyone can complain that no one makes them and reminisce about the days when they were available but not always the best quality. Keep ripping on vendors and they go away. As some have pointed out these are very difficult to make in very good quality.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
And when no one makes them any more everyone can complain that no one makes them and reminisce about the days when they were available but not always the best quality. Keep ripping on vendors and they go away. As some have pointed out these are very difficult to make in very good quality.
Well said, Rodney.
JohnWPB, perhaps a PM to Chris would have been a better way to handle this, with a post here saying that the replacements were better than his earlier versions.
JohnWPB, perhaps a PM to Chris would have been a better way to handle this, with a post here saying that the replacements were better than his earlier versions.
Just an idea.....
No, it wouldn't have been better. This has been an ongoing issue with his product so John is simply pointing this out for those on here who are too timid to call someone out.
@Rodney & olejoedad: Believe me, a PM was the first thing I tried. If you had both read the thread, you would see that I was in contact with him before this thread was posted. He answered my first PM, which was the one I was purposely overly nice, saying I would pay for shipping on a new set, and just wanted a discount on a set of new replacement windows. I never once asked for free replacements. He replied, and said there was nothing wrong with them. I shot a video and sent pictures to him. He still said there was nothing wrong with them, other than I put the tape on the car and not on the windows, and it was because I did not have drip rails on my car. That was the last email, PM or eBay PM that he ever responded to. It was after he stopped replying, that I posted this thread.
So Yea guys, I agree that a PM should be the first course of action, and that is exactly what I did to begin with.
@Rodney: I also agree with you on your comment about people that are making items for the Fiero. I am extremely grateful that they do. Just because I am happy that they make something, does NOT justify extremely bad customer service. It certainly does not condone basically calling me a liar, or inept at putting a plastic window on a car correctly. I started this post, after attempts to resolve this failed, and yes it was some time ago. The only reason I revived it, is because I now have absolute proof that the windows were indeed too small, and his excuses were exactly that, just excuses. I wanted to basically justify what I had said to begin with, and show that there was indeed a problem with the windows themselves, and not the way that I put them on the car.
The new windows fit correctly, and I am actually happy with them.
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-13-2015).]
And when no one makes them any more everyone can complain that no one makes them and reminisce about the days when they were available but not always the best quality. Keep ripping on vendors and they go away. As some have pointed out these are very difficult to make in very good quality.
If vendors produce quality material like you do no one will rip on them, but when they take your hard earned money and give you turds then they deserve any and all ripping. It's better to not have any vendors than to get taken by shady ones.
If vendors produce quality material like you do no one will rip on them, .
I'm closing in on 60 now. Who knows how long I will be around. Once I'm gone then what? I wonder how many in the future will try to make Fiero parts. Time will tell.
Voice your opinions but try not to drive the few vendors we have away is my opinion.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
Rodney, do you have an understudy or a crew? If not, we do need to think about that. Even if you live to 200, I highly doubt you'll continue your operation that long.
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