As much as I love our little cars, I have to say I've driven 2 different 4.9 fieros and a mz3 as well and I'm gonna have to put my money on the Mazda. I don't think the 4.9 has the balls
Edit to add: my buddy Scotts 4.9 has the auto trans with the taller gears and a couple of bolt ons. Iirc his best 1/4 mile time was 15.2 at 100mph at edgewater
[This message has been edited by fieroguy123 (edited 06-30-2014).]
As much as I love our little cars, I have to say I've driven 2 different 4.9 fieros and a mz3 as well and I'm gonna have to put my money on the Mazda. I don't think the 4.9 has the balls
Edit to add: my buddy Scotts 4.9 has the auto trans with the taller gears and a couple of bolt ons. Iirc his best 1/4 mile time was 15.2 at 100mph at edgewater
You think the mazda would win even giving the fiero a two car lead?
As much as I love our little cars, I have to say I've driven 2 different 4.9 fieros and a mz3 as well and I'm gonna have to put my money on the Mazda. I don't think the 4.9 has the balls
Edit to add: my buddy Scotts 4.9 has the auto trans with the taller gears and a couple of bolt ons. Iirc his best 1/4 mile time was 15.2 at 100mph at edgewater
I think your friend Scott might be my brother. Is it a White 88 GT 4.9? (white and silver now) If so his best time might be 15.2 but I got a 14.9 out of it at Edgewater a long while ago. Alas, having driven his and knowing what they run with a manual (low to mid 14's) unless the 4.9 has upgraded heads and cam or a 75 Shot of Nitrous I believe the Mazda will win fairly easily. The Fiero will pull out in front briefly and then once the Mazda 3 gets those front wheels hooked up he will reel him in quickly. My $.02 anyways...
You think the mazda would win even giving the fiero a two car lead?
The Fiero just doesn't have a chance. It doesn't have the torque or RPM range, and the gearing, to do it. From 40 MPH, you're probably going to be starting in 3rd gear, and the Mazda probably can drop into 2nd for a better start. 2nd gear on a Getrag with a stock 4.9 over 40 MPH is probably not something you want to do. You'll already be over 5000 RPM at that point, on the stock Fiero tires. You'll just be spinning and wasting gas, not putting any more power out, and likely to break something.
If it's got a big turbo on it too, you're definitely screwed. Stock the MS3 makes more power than the 4.9, and over a broader range.
You think the mazda would win even giving the fiero a two car lead?
Probably. RPMs and gearing is in its favor. It won't take long for the Mazda to pass the Fiero, especially if it's running a big turbo and making > 300 HP (if it's running 10-15 PSI of boost on the turbo, and is properly tuned, should probably be closer to 400 HP). The Mazdaspeed engine makes some impressive power numbers for being a little 2.3L 4 cylinder.
I think your friend Scott might be my brother. Is it a White 88 GT 4.9? (white and silver now) If so his best time might be 15.2 but I got a 14.9 out of it at Edgewater a long while ago. Alas, having driven his and knowing what they run with a manual (low to mid 14's) unless the 4.9 has upgraded heads and cam or a 75 Shot of Nitrous I believe the Mazda will win fairly easily. The Fiero will pull out in front briefly and then once the Mazda 3 gets those front wheels hooked up he will reel him in quickly. My $.02 anyways...
Yes, this is your brother I'm speaking of. I spent a good amount of time behind the wheel of his 88 when we traveled to Pennsylvania to pick up your northstar Fiero. Its an amazing car, but its not the mazdaspeed 3 by any means.
As the owner of a 4.9 Formula with the 3.33 final in the 4T60E, (its no slouch) the Mazda WILL WALK ON THE FIERO. Embarrassingly, I might add. Eighth mile, standing start?........4.9 Fiero. 40 mph roll? Not the best scenario by a long shot.
[This message has been edited by olejoedad (edited 07-01-2014).]
Yes, this is your brother I'm speaking of. I spent a good amount of time behind the wheel of his 88 when we traveled to Pennsylvania to pick up your northstar Fiero. Its an amazing car, but its not the mazdaspeed 3 by any means.
Bobby-
Then I owe you a BIG thank you. I met one of my brother's fiero friends in Indianapolis. Was that you? As for the thread topic, the advent of DI / VVT & Twin Scroll turbos mounted directly to the exhaust manifold eliminating turbo lag has ended the "no replacement for displacement"era to be for sure. My Cobalt SS turbo in Germany would crush a stock 4.9 especially if both vehicles are already rolling at 40mph (i missed that part when I posted previously that the 4.9 would jump ahead...) and being brutally honest with you I think it would be a match for my lightly modded N* fiero. I know after I put the Trifecta Tune on it and upped the boost to 21 psi it would take my N* fiero from 40 mph. The Mazda 3 has pretty much the same set up with an extra .3 liter of displacement. The only issue the Mazda would have in this hypo. scenario would be arm wrestling with the steering wheel. Mazda is not nearly as good as GM at negating TQ steer in FWD cars (but then, nobody is...). Oh how I miss driving that Cobalt in Germany...
-Steve
[This message has been edited by jediperk (edited 07-01-2014).]
The 4.9 V8 is definitely not a high-performance engine. Yeah, it has plenty of low-RPM torque. But low-RPM torque doesn't win races. That turbocharged Mazda3 will trounce it (assuming the driver isn't a complete idiot, and his car doesn't break).
I have to agree with everyone else. The Mazdaspeed3 will win if the driver is at all competent.
Rather, he'd have to be pretty incompetent to lose, with 100+ HP, and probably 100+ ft-lbs more than the 4.9 Fiero is making, with more RPM and better gearing.
As the owner of a 4.9 Formula with the 3.33 final in the 4T60E, (its no slouch) the Mazda WILL WALK ON THE FIERO. Embarrassingly, I might add. Eighth mile, standing start?........4.9 Fiero. 40 mph roll? Not the best scenario by a long shot.
This. My 4.9 has a Getrag. It's a beast, out of the hole. But doesn't have the top end.
Against a well engineered, current model hot rod? (Even a turbo 4.) Not happening.
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 07-01-2014).]
Y'up, it negates the only real advantage the 4.9 would have against the Mazda 3; the off the line launch...
I highly doubt it. THe MS3 makes 280 ft-lbs of torque and has a 0-60 of less than 6 seconds, doing the 1/4 mile in 14 seconds flat. A stock 4.9 is not going to win even off the line. I can't find a 0-60 time for a stock 4.9 swapped Fiero, but as an educated guess, I'd put it in the low-mid 6 second range. Depending on drivers, the launch might be close, but the 4.9 definitely isn't going to outright win it.
I highly doubt it. THe MS3 makes 280 ft-lbs of torque and has a 0-60 of less than 6 seconds, doing the 1/4 mile in 14 seconds flat. A stock 4.9 is not going to win even off the line. I can't find a 0-60 time for a stock 4.9 swapped Fiero, but as an educated guess, I'd put it in the low-mid 6 second range. Depending on drivers, the launch might be close, but the 4.9 definitely isn't going to outright win it.
It's not the lack of power that will cost the MS3 at launch, its FWD. My Cobalt SS Turbo made 260 TQ, had launch control and a much better suspension for reducing TQ Steer and launching hard than the MS3 and it did 0-60 in under 6 seconds too. If the car could have launched better it would have had a 0-60 of about 5 seconds and its the same way with the MS3. Also, the 4.9 may only make 210 HP, but it has 270 TQ and it's a low down launch hard kind of TQ...
If you have the $$ put a 75 HP Wet shot on your 4.9 and make it interesting...
If you want to make it an interesting race with the Mazda mentioned in the OP, you're going to need a lot more than a 75 shot. Try 150. Or better yet, just get a turbo.
Originally posted by jediperk: It's not the lack of power that will cost the MS3 at launch, its FWD. My Cobalt SS Turbo made 260 TQ, had launch control and a much better suspension for reducing TQ Steer and launching hard than the MS3 and it did 0-60 in under 6 seconds too. If the car could have launched better it would have had a 0-60 of about 5 seconds and its the same way with the MS3. Also, the 4.9 may only make 210 HP, but it has 270 TQ and it's a low down launch hard kind of TQ...
The problem with the 4.9 is that it doesn't keep making that torque. And 3000 RPM is hardly "down low" when the engine hits the wall at just over 4000. You also seem to be talking about a stock MS3. Depending on the "larger turbo" mentioned in the OP, how much boost it's making, and how well the car is tuned, it could be making 400 ft-lbs of torque, and probably 400 HP. Even if it's not that big a turbo, but it's larger than stock and tuned, it's probably pushing at least 325 at the crank, and it has a much broader RPM range than the 4.9 does.
The problem with the 4.9 is that it doesn't keep making that torque. And 3000 RPM is hardly "down low" when the engine hits the wall at just over 4000. You also seem to be talking about a stock MS3. Depending on the "larger turbo" mentioned in the OP, how much boost it's making, and how well the car is tuned, it could be making 400 ft-lbs of torque, and probably 400 HP. Even if it's not that big a turbo, but it's larger than stock and tuned, it's probably pushing at least 325 at the crank, and it has a much broader RPM range than the 4.9 does.
I feel you with the 4.9. At 4000 rpm its time to shift. But having driven them and ran them down the track I know how well they can launch. Adding more power to the MS3 just makes it that much harder to launch and actually works against it. That's why TRIFECTA and ZZP both offer a 1st gear boost reduction tune for us LNF guys. Off the line the 4.9 WILL launch a wee bit harder. The MS3, even stock will reign the 4.9 in and be in front of it by the 1/8 mile mark. It will probably look exactly like a Corvette / 911 drag race FROM BACK IN THE DAY. Porsche launches harder and pulls out in front and then the Corvette gets traction and superior power reels in the 911 quickly before etching out the win.
You should have made him race you at a 1/4 mile track from a standstill. You basically took away the only thing you had going for you (ability to launch hard) and took away the only disadvantage he had (trying to launch a high HP/TQ FWD car with a manual). Actually a 1/8th mile track would have been better. By the time he managed to get hooked up and actually moving you would probably be up 5-6 car lengths and not much farther to go. You would be surprised how many times a slower/less powerful car wins at the drag strip b/c of the most important mod of all: THE DRIVER MOD
[This message has been edited by jediperk (edited 07-08-2014).]
