I decided to start this thread to document my LS4 build. Last Friday, I picked up a nice LS4/auto from a 06 Impala SS. Car was destroyed in a Hail Storm / Tornado a few weeks ago in Northeast Nebraska - After the garage was tore down around it from the Tornado, it was pummeled by baseball size hail. I was able to drive the car around the wrecking yard. Everything mechanical works as expected. The yard is pulling the motor/trans, wiring harness, computers and anything else I will need this week. Should be ready to pick up Thursday. I've read a lot of LS4 swap threads here on Pennock's and read through countless mod threads on LSTech and other LS forums. At this point, I have not decided to stay all stock or if I will do some intake and cam mods before I put it in the car. Leaning toward all stock for now - get it running and driving then pick up another engine and mod it for a later swap? I'd like to end up with the DoD deleted and go with the LS2 Intake / TB. Once I have it built up on the cradle and ready to install, I will have to decide which Fiero to put it in. The Roadster or the Wide Body? Leaning toward the Wide Body right now - I've always wanted to do a 3800 Turbo / F40 and I think that the Roadster would be the right car for that motor/trans combo.
So on with the build.
First order of business is to get the cradle tore down, cleaned and prepped. I'm using an 87 4 cylinder cradle that is pretty good shape - some surface rust, lots of Duke grease and more dirt and mud packed in the nooks and crannies than I have ever seen - which surprises me that there is not any rusted through spots. When I pulled the a arms and the rear cradle bushings, I was surprised again to find that they are in really good shape - I think I could put it back together with these bushings but will probably opt for poly. I definitely will have to go Poly in the front cradle mounts as these are toast after having to cut the bolts out and using a lot of heat trying to loosen up the rust. My youngest son works at an Aircraft Engine Shop - he will take the cradleand the a arms to work and clean them up in their industrial sized parts washer - that will probably destroy the bushings.
Tonight's progress: Well I was going to use PIP but I don't see a version that works for Windows 8? I'll see if I can get into photo bucket.
I decided to start this thread to document my LS4 build. Last Friday, I picked up a nice LS4/auto from a 06 Impala SS. Car was destroyed in a Hail Storm / Tornado a few weeks ago in Northeast Nebraska - After the garage was tore down around it from the Tornado, it was pummeled by baseball size hail. I was able to drive the car around the wrecking yard. Everything mechanical works as expected. The yard is pulling the motor/trans, wiring harness, computers and anything else I will need this week. Should be ready to pick up Thursday. I've read a lot of LS4 swap threads here on Pennock's and read through countless mod threads on LSTech and other LS forums. At this point, I have not decided to stay all stock or if I will do some intake and cam mods before I put it in the car. Leaning toward all stock for now - get it running and driving then pick up another engine and mod it for a later swap? I'd like to end up with the DoD deleted and go with the LS2 Intake / TB. Once I have it built up on the cradle and ready to install, I will have to decide which Fiero to put it in. The Roadster or the Wide Body? Leaning toward the Wide Body right now - I've always wanted to do a 3800 Turbo / F40 and I think that the Roadster would be the right car for that motor/trans combo.
So on with the build.
First order of business is to get the cradle tore down, cleaned and prepped. I'm using an 87 4 cylinder cradle that is pretty good shape - some surface rust, lots of Duke grease and more dirt and mud packed in the nooks and crannies than I have ever seen - which surprises me that there is not any rusted through spots. When I pulled the a arms and the rear cradle bushings, I was surprised again to find that they are in really good shape - I think I could put it back together with these bushings but will probably opt for poly. I definitely will have to go Poly in the front cradle mounts as these are toast after having to cut the bolts out and using a lot of heat trying to loosen up the rust. My youngest son works at an Aircraft Engine Shop - he will take the cradleand the a arms to work and clean them up in their industrial sized parts washer - that will probably destroy the bushings.
Tonight's progress: Well I was going to use PIP but I don't see a version that works for Windows 8? I'll see if I can get into photo bucket.
More Later!
Pat
Congratulations for attempting this somewhat difficult swap. I've always liked the LS4 but never had the time to figure out all of the details that would make it run and function correctly in a Fiero. Drive by wire/ gas pedal module, AFM, PCM of traction control, fuel pump and other aspects all need to be addressed to make this engine run smoothly. I will be following this thread and cheering you on. If you want a modern V8 with an automatic this is a great choice
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 07-15-2014).]
I am glad to see another LS4 swap starting! Starting with an 06 engine is a good choice, the 07+ ones are more finicky on the wiring side and harder to tune - coefficient equations vs. a traditional VE table.
The swap is a pretty tight fit and you have to rework the accessory drive/water pump some, but after that its just a bunch of wires!
Thanks for the encouragement Dennis - I've been waffling back and forth on this swap for over a year now - it's time to dive in.
Guru - you are the main inspiration for my going forward. Following your thread and a few other LS4 threads showed me that there are solutions to every problem - you just have to work through it. There's no way I could or would attempt it if others had not been there first. I'll be picking your brain and bugging you for help along the way. I think I have a box of parts in my garage that I was supposed to send to you too.
Pat, I will be in Omaha next Wed. teaching a Photoshop seminar. PM me if you want to sit in and I will give you the location etc. Glad to see another LS4 build on the books
Dr. W.
Thanks for the invite - I'll be in Yuma AZ all week next week.
Brought another piece to the LS4 puzzle home today. Now the work really starts!
This old trailer has ferried a few Fiero Swaps!
Did I get all the Computer's needed?
Tucked away in the garage waiting for the next step. Do I leave it all stock or do the DoD delete LS2 Intake/TB cam swap now?
Not pictured is the Electric Throttle pedal. The Parts guy at the yard said he was not sure but thought that GM up to 06 had a computer for the throttle too. He said if I find that I need that, just come back and I can have whatever I need to make it work.
Originally posted by katatak: Not pictured is the Electric Throttle pedal. The Parts guy at the yard said he was not sure but thought that GM up to 06 had a computer for the throttle too.
The LS4's do not use a TAC module, the throttle pedal wires direct to the ECM.
You have both the ECM and TCM and that is all you need.
Like guru said, the ECM/TCM are the only ones you need to run the engine/trans.
If you want to install the DIC in your dash to get the MPG/oil life/etc… display, you'll also need the BCM though. If you're doing that, you're all set with just the ones you have.
Spent all week in Yuma - 117 degrees - it was not fun. All I could do was think about the swap. I must have read 1000 LS articles, cams, heads, intakes, etc. etc. There are just too many choices...... Got to make some soon though. WIll start mocking up this weekend. Of course I get home this afternoon - it's 101 with 90 percent humidity here. Just Great!
Not a lot done today - very hot and very humid in my garage - I did get the Harness removed and this evening I'll get the motor /trans set up on my engine cart so I can start working on the Water pump.
Complete LS4 Wiring Harness from an 06 Impala SS
More later - Supposed to drop into the 80's and 70's this week.
Managed to get the all the grease cleaned off the cradle today. Now the wire brush work starts! Maybe I'll find someone to sand blast it? There was a time - not too long ago, I'd just blast it myself. I'm getting to the point where it's easier to pay someone to do it for me - or at least the really nasty work - Like sand blasting and Wiring.......
So this morning, I started working on the front end of the Wide body - while I'm waiting on some parts for the LS swap, I decided it was time to tear the front end apart and refresh it. O found a lot of problems - lots of rust and I think one of the upper a arm pivots is broken. It's in a lot worse shape than I thought and I'm worried about using this chassis - for any reason - let alone a V8 swap. So after much thought, I've headed in a new direction - the Wide body will be stripped to the bones and the Chassis will go to the scrap yard. I will use the body for the Roadster project and the LS4 will go in the Roadster as well. It means I have to cut up the wide body a little and then make some tweaks to it but if it turns out the way I have planned, it will be a very slick, unique Wide Body Roadster.
Gathering parts - got hot here in Omaha as well so my ambition level is rather low plus work has me bouncing around lately. Will be back at it this weekend - 3 solid days of Roadster project work planned.
Finally cooled off here in Omaha and my garage has dried out from all the rain so I did some work on the Roadster cage. Got the rear hoop mounts tacked in and the rear hoop tacked in - started the tedious work fabbing one of the two front hoop to rear hoop bars. Lot's of trial and error now - Figuring angles and lengths along with getting the notches just right is a big challenge for me. At least now I have a "prototype" bar that I can use to fab the final bars. The rest of the cross bars and rocker sill bars will be easy - no bends or angles to deal with. Once I get these 2 top bars done, the rest should go pretty quick.
I also think its good that you are combining the LS4/Widebody with the Roadster project on an 88 chassis! Working on 2 project cars at the same time is hard. Not enough time or $$$ to properly split between them... or at least that has been my experience.
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 09-06-2014).]
I also think its good that you are combining the LS4/Widebody with the Roadster project on an 88 chassis! Working on 2 project cars at the same time is hard. Not enough time or $$$ to properly split between them... or at least that has been my experience.
100% agree - with both projects, nothing was getting done - lots of procrastination. With the weather cooling off, I hope I can keep the enthusiasim at a high level. Woule really like to be driving this next Spring. Still lots to do though.
After doing yard work all morning, I was allowed to tinker in the garage some. Decided it was time to do some cleaning so I picked up all my tools and put them away, picked up all the scrap metal and tube laying around, picked up all the garbage - emptied the garbage can (1 year of trash in it - and it was overflowing), swept the floor, put all the pieces and parts in bins and then used the leaf blower to blow out the rest of the dust.
Then I decided it was time to tear down the 2.8 - got to get this motor/trans off my engine cart so I can get the other cradle and the LS4 on there to start the mock up. Got a lot done but did not get to do any cage work - maybe tomorrow?
I know it does not look like it - trust me, this is 100% cleaner than it was yesterday.
2.8 stripped down as far as I'm going to take it. I'll post it up in the Mall one more time at the end of next week - if no takers, the motor and trans will head to the scrap yard. Seems a waste - it's a solid 67k mile motor and trans - I just don't have the need or the space to keep it.
Pile of parts worth saving - I think most of these are spoken for - what he does not want, I'll post in the Mall.
I need another manual harness for my swap. Would it be a pain to convert this one?
So let me get this straight. You are going to make a wide body roadster with a V8 now?
I have no clue if you could conver this harness Rick. When it comes to wiring - I'm completely lost.
And you are correct - Wide Body LS4 Roadster...... I have some crazy body mods in mind as well....... It's just a sickness for which there is no cure!
On another note,
I just ordered LS7 Hydraulic Roller Lifters - LS7 Vavle Springs, A Flat LS3 style valley cover and LS7 Lifter Trays. Now I just have to pick a cam and find an LS6 Intake!
I just ordered LS7 Hydraulic Roller Lifters - LS7 Vavle Springs, A Flat LS3 style valley cover and LS7 Lifter Trays. Now I just have to pick a cam and find an LS6 Intake!
How much did this cost you? What cam are you looking for? Are you doing a proven valve train combo or a one off?
I did the LS6 manifold, but the entire time I had it I thought it was a LS1. I found out it was an LS6 by the dyno tuner. Imagine my disappointment
Originally posted by katatak: I just ordered LS7 Hydraulic Roller Lifters - LS7 Vavle Springs, A Flat LS3 style valley cover and LS7 Lifter Trays. Now I just have to pick a cam and find an LS6 Intake!
Want a stock LS1/LQ9 cam? I've got one I could sell cheap, if it's the cam you want. Would just need a nice polishing before install I think. Let me know if you want it.
I hope you didn't get overcharged for the "LS7" parts. The lifters and trays are the same part # for the LS2, and the springs are the same as the LS6 (don't recall if they were same as stock LS2, but I think they were).
GM# for the Springs is 12499224 - 60.00 for 16 springs at a local engine builder. I think I need retainers and locks? Don't know if the LS4 pieces will work or if I should use new ones?
GM# for the lifters is 12499225 - 90.00 for 16 lifters at a local engine builder.
GM# for the trays is 12595365 - 24.00 for 4 trays at a local engine builder.
The valley cover is a low profile flat cover for a carb setup - I'm told it will work fine - no vent needed and I'm relocating the OP sensor. it was 60.00 on E Bay.
Have not decided on cam yet but I'm leaning toward a stock Z06 cam? I don't want anything "custom" - looking for tried and true setup. Having a hard time finding an adapter to mount the LS4 TB to the LS6 intake (seems to be several LS6 intakes around from 300 to 700 bucks complete). Found a guy on LS1tech that makes the adapter (260.00) but after a few notes back and forth, it does not sound like he has a lot of interest in making one for me. the old "I just don't know when I'll have time to make one" response. In my experience that means - send me the money and I'll make it when I feel like it. I'm a little leery of those types of deals.
I did find an LS6 intake complete with rails and injectors and a drive by wire TB for 425.00 - it does have some damage at the rear that was repaired but you never know about these things. It's a gamble! I understand that there is a different plug between the LS4 TB and the LS6 TB - I think it's a 8 wire versus a 6 wire? I'll have to read Guru's LS4/F40 thread again.
Lifters showed up today - trays were back ordered but shipped today. Springs and valley cover are in route. Plan to get the motor / trans separated this weekend and get the motor on the stand for disassembly. May have the heads reworked while they are off. There is a "LS Performance" shop here in Omaha, I may talk to them about some mods / cams, etc. They do have a dyno and offer "tune" work so they may come in handy.
Originally posted by katatak: GM# for the Springs is 12499224 - 60.00 for 16 springs at a local engine builder. I think I need retainers and locks? Don't know if the LS4 pieces will work or if I should use new ones?
Originally posted by katatak: Thanks dobey! Standard stock LS pieces or the titanium stuff? Does it really make a difference on a fairly "stock" valve train?
Stock LS4 retainers are fine, I wouldn't even buy new ones. I spin 7K with them (and better springs).
Started the day at an auction over in Iowa. Mostly Household stuff and Farm equipment but they did have a 35k mile 88 Red GT going on he block too. I really do not need another Fiero but I was curious to see what it would go for - you never know - it could have been a "steal"! Auction started at 10 am and was very slow - auctioning off every single little salt and pepper shaker individually. I had another appointment @ 1 pm and had to leave before the car went on the block. Not sure what it went for ir even if it sold. There were a lot of folks looking it over before the auction started. I wish I could have waited it out but it did not work out. The auction was a little goofy too - at one point, they spilt up the crowd selling stuff from two different areas - was tough to decide where to be. There were also family members of the sellers in the crowd bidding on items too - which I found to be a bother. I hope the Fiero went to a good home - it is very clean - fully optioned and well maintained. Here's a few pics of it:
Got home around 3 and started removing the old V6 from the cradle. Got most of it disassembled and the motor/trans loaded in the trailer. Seems a shame to have to haul this off to the scraper but I have no place to keep it. If anyone sees something that they need off of it, send me a PM and we'll see if I can get it off for you.
Rear spindles - got the "aircraft parts" cleaning and treatment! And the lifter trays showed up today while we were out.
It's too bad these things are so ugly - we'll see what we can do to clean it up a bit before install! Plan to get it split from the trans and on the motor stand tomorrow. More later.
There's a lot of junk on the LS4 intake. If you're swapping it out for an LS6 intake, it will look much better on top. Relocating the coils obviously helps too. But otherwise, it's not really that bad or any worse than the other LS engines in that respect. The Vette coil covers don't help much with a stock LS4 intake though.
Big day at the Katatak garage! Got 95% of the cage done and did a lot of welding. Also got a lot of the LS4 dismantled.
Top bars cut to length In the bender for a 20 degree bend In the notcher for that "custom fit" One fit up Second one fit up Rear cross bar in Front cross bar in
LS4 disassembly - Found one of the front exhaust manifold bolts broke off? There is a V8 under all that crap! And all the pieces and parts removed
Started mounting the LS4 to the cradle today. Lots of cutting and grinding on the cradle to start with. Also started cleaning the engine bay - working on wiring and all the "little things" that no one ever tells you about! Guru, Fieroking and others make it look easy - its not easy - it's a lot of work and it makes me admire those that have "been there - done that" a whole lot more. I am very glad that those folks share their work and are always there to offer their help. Pics coming soon.
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