As for the fuel tank location.... ask them if they would rather have it mounted on the outside of the frame, like they used to do with trucks.... or in the center of the car, where it is protected. BTW, I know of someone who died after hitting one of the side tank trucks and it caught on fire (truck lost control and hit him).
This myth is just as bad, the outside frame trucks and fire..
I had a guy pull in the driveway a few years back and told me in no uncertain terms it was made by Toiletota, said he worked for a Pontiac dealer and sold them new and that what they told him. he refused to listen to anything I had to say, he knew it was made by Toiletota.
Then I had a kid over here one time helping with fencing and he said every part of my Fiero would bolt right on to his Toiletota. I don't know what Toiletota he has but WTF folks, wake up and smell the coffee. or at least read something about what you are talking about, besides just one article about FIRE !
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 06-13-2016).]
It's unfortunate that the Fiero actually had a higher quality, heavier, and more costly method of construction than most small cars, but the effort and expense was rewarded with people thinking they're more flimsy than a generic compact unibody. It seems this is all because the car is small and the part they see on the outside is plastic.
quote
Originally posted by fierosound: Some people also think the ENTIRE CAR is plastic (just the body).
It's amazing how many people think that. It kills me. I don't really blame non-car people for not knowing how a car is built, but I've seen the plastic argument used by people presenting themselves as knowledgeable, and trying to convince others why a Fiero is unsafe. "Fieros aren't safe, they're made of plastic!" I've even seen one panic peddler directly argue that they have a plastic frame. Seriously. Anybody who thinks that any practical automobile is structurally held together with plastic has obviously never spent a moment working on any car or they'd realize how irrational this is. How a person with such a vacuum of knowledge on a subject then wants to spread rumors and arrogantly tell other people what to drive is something I can't get my head around. Them plastic Fieros must be real rockets in the 1/4, I tell ya what.
Then there's this news outfit, which either thinks the 1885.. I mean 1985 Fiero frame is wood, or just doesn't know what a frame is. They said it at least twice: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/096674.html
I had a guy pull in the driveway a few years back and told me in no uncertain terms it was made by Toiletota, said he worked for a Pontiac dealer and sold them new and that what they told him. he refused to listen to anything I had to say, he knew it was made by Toiletota.
Then I had a kid over here one time helping with fencing and he said every part of my Fiero would bolt right on to his Toiletota. I don't know what Toiletota he has but WTF folks, wake up and smell the coffee. or at least read something about what you are talking about, besides just one article about FIRE !
What is a "Toiletota"? Are you referring to Toyota? A company that has built far more reliable vehicles in the past 40 years than GM has? Vehicles that have better resale value, Consumer Reports ratings, and owner satisfaction ratings? A company that has practically invented the modern quality control systems being used by all other major automotive manufacturers today?
What is a "Toiletota"? Are you referring to Toyota? A company that has built far more reliable vehicles in the past 40 years than GM has? Vehicles that have better resale value, Consumer Reports ratings, and owner satisfaction ratings? A company that has practically invented the modern quality control systems being used by all other major automotive manufacturers today?
I had a guy pull in the driveway a few years back and told me in no uncertain terms it was made by Toiletota, said he worked for a Pontiac dealer and sold them new and that what they told him. :banghead he refused to listen to anything I had to say, he knew it was made by Toiletota.
Then I had a kid over here one time helping with fencing and he said every part of my Fiero would bolt right on to his Toiletota. :tantrum I don't know what Toiletota he has but WTF folks, wake up and smell the coffee. or at least read something about what you are talking about, besides just one article about FIRE !
FIIIIIIIIIIII-RE! (Tum tum-tum) Fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii-RE!........(Ohio Players song)(One of the few funk songs I like)
And it's 'Toyopet'.....The company that learned quality control from an AMERICAN named Deming.....I actually had my boss- A Commander in the CG- Train us on "Lean manufacturing"....told us how Toyoda (The man who started Toyota) invented LM......Looked it up as I was sure that it came from another source- Seems Toyoda came over here and studied how Henry Ford made Model Ts at a price 1/10 what other manufacturers could at the time......And when you look into Lean manufacturing, it can be traced back to Benjamin Franklin....
There is a reason that the US leads in a lot of these ideas- We have all different people mixing all the different ideas and ways of solving problems....and we end up with the best combinations.....Although we don't always properly exploit those ideas.....GM(Brillant) created Saturn.....Then GM(Stupid) forced Saturn into the old GM mold rather than learning the better way that was Saturn....and.....Saturn gone.......
What is a "Toiletota"? Are you referring to Toyota? A company that has built far more reliable vehicles in the past 40 years than GM has? Vehicles that have better resale value, Consumer Reports ratings, and owner satisfaction ratings? A company that has practically invented the modern quality control systems being used by all other major automotive manufacturers today?
ANY Toyota tech can tell you, this just isn't true... but marketing can do wonders on what people think..
ANY Toyota tech can tell you, this just isn't true... but marketing can do wonders on what people think..
Any tech working on any brand of car will be able to tell you horror stories.. since they deal with broken down cars on a daily basis. I am talking about "big picture" stats collected by reputable agencies. Ditto for resale value. Compare a 10 year old Toyota minvan to a Chev Venture... a 10 year old Corolla to a Sunfire, or a 10 year old Camry to a Grand Am. The Toyota will have depreciated less and they tend to average considerably fewer repairs. Are they perfect? Of course not. But with the exception of full sized trucks, GM vehicles built in the last 30 or so years have not been as reliable as Toyotas. Of course, this is just my opinion and is based on my own personal experience and research- others are free to disagree. Interestingly, the most reliable vehicles I have ever owned have been recent Hyundai and Kia cars built in the USA. 375,000 km and still going, never been to a service shop other than maintenance like brakes and tires.
[This message has been edited by cam-a-lot (edited 06-15-2016).]
Hmmmmm......Actually, Ford and GM have better quality at the moment- Not all models- but the average for them is better than the average for Toyota- I don't think there is ANY auto manufacturer that is not using a version of the Deming TQM system.....And one thing most people don't mention is those Toyota and other import parts cost more. A lot of people in this country like to belittle the United States manufacturing abilities.....when I worked at NAS Alameda, there were a number of people who delighted in putting down US made goods....I suspect(From my observations) that they were talking from their own experiences at work- They knew they didn't do a good job, so they think NO American does a good job.
After we switched to TQM at NAS Alameda, we started putting out S-3 aircraft that were "Zero- Defect".......To give you an idea what that meant, never before has any Aircraft line, New or rework, put out Zero-defect A/C......
Any tech working on any brand of car will be able to tell you horror stories.. since they deal with broken down cars on a daily basis. I am talking about "big picture" stats collected by reputable agencies. Ditto for resale value. Compare a 10 year old Toyota minvan to a Chev Venture... a 10 year old Corolla to a Sunfire, or a 10 year old Camry to a Grand Am. The Toyota will have depreciated less and they tend to average considerably fewer repairs. Are they perfect? Of course not. But with the exception of full sized trucks, GM vehicles built in the last 30 or so years have not been as reliable as Toyotas. Of course, this is just my opinion and is based on my own personal experience and research- others are free to disagree. Interestingly, the most reliable vehicles I have ever owned have been recent Hyundai and Kia cars built in the USA. 375,000 km and still going, never been to a service shop other than maintenance like brakes and tires.
Maybe you should read this, posted in OT, they are losing the battle.
You forgot to spread the other parts of our green Fiero myth.
After so many (built on Friday) green ones caught fire, the factory recalled all of the green cars, performed recall modifications and painted them red... just so they would know that there wasn't any chance of people being afraid of the green Fieros. Plus, good luck trying to ever sell your Fiero if it was green. This also explains why so many of them were red.
The reason they only made green ones on Fridays was because it took all weekend for the green paint to dry.
You forgot to spread the other parts of our green Fiero myth.
After so many (built on Friday) green ones caught fire, the factory recalled all of the green cars, performed recall modifications and painted them red... just so they would know that there wasn't any chance of people being afraid of the green Fieros. Plus, good luck trying to ever sell your Fiero if it was green. This also explains why so many of them were red.
The reason they only made green ones on Fridays was because it took all weekend for the green paint to dry.
Great on the "that's more Fieros for Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!" and also the whole "Green Fieros catching fire" myth....We should build this up to a whole, seriously ridiculous story- It's already ridiculous, but maybe we can make it more ridiculous-y.......
Toyotas a great... I've owned a couple trucks. They've been the greatest vehicles I've owned. Reliable. Easy to fix. Clever engineering. Obviously I'm a Chevy guy at heart (or Pontiac man if your being specific) but Toyotas are my import of choice. Hondas and Nissans are close behind. But the Kia's and hyundias are a few bars lower.
Toyotas a great... I've owned a couple trucks. They've been the greatest vehicles I've owned. Reliable. Easy to fix. Clever engineering. Obviously I'm a Chevy guy at heart (or Pontiac man if your being specific) but Toyotas are my import of choice. Hondas and Nissans are close behind. But the Kia's and hyundias are a few bars lower.
I preferred to buy cars made domestically. Toyota Corolla and Honday Civic are just about the only domestically-assembled cars left on my watch list (we've still got a few larger cars, SUVs, and the new Ford GT).
[This message has been edited by seq (edited 06-16-2016).]
It's unfortunate that the Fiero actually had a higher quality, heavier, and more costly method of construction than most small cars, but the effort and expense was rewarded with people thinking they're more flimsy than a generic compact unibody. It seems this is all because the car is small and the part they see on the outside is plastic.
It's amazing how many people think that. It kills me. I don't really blame non-car people for not knowing how a car is built, but I've seen the plastic argument used by people presenting themselves as knowledgeable, and trying to convince others why a Fiero is unsafe. "Fieros aren't safe, they're made of plastic!" I've even seen one panic peddler directly argue that they have a plastic frame. Seriously. Anybody who thinks that any practical automobile is structurally held together with plastic has obviously never spent a moment working on any car or they'd realize how irrational this is. How a person with such a vacuum of knowledge on a subject then wants to spread rumors and arrogantly tell other people what to drive is something I can't get my head around. Them plastic Fieros must be real rockets in the 1/4, I tell ya what.
Then there's this news outfit, which either thinks the 1885.. I mean 1985 Fiero frame is wood, or just doesn't know what a frame is. They said it at least twice: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/096674.html
It's unfortunate that the Fiero actually had a higher quality, heavier, and more costly method of construction than most small cars, but the effort and expense was rewarded with people thinking they're more flimsy than a generic compact unibody. It seems this is all because the car is small and the part they see on the outside is plastic.
It's amazing how many people think that. It kills me. I don't really blame non-car people for not knowing how a car is built, but I've seen the plastic argument used by people presenting themselves as knowledgeable, and trying to convince others why a Fiero is unsafe. "Fieros aren't safe, they're made of plastic!" I've even seen one panic peddler directly argue that they have a plastic frame. Seriously. Anybody who thinks that any practical automobile is structurally held together with plastic has obviously never spent a moment working on any car or they'd realize how irrational this is. How a person with such a vacuum of knowledge on a subject then wants to spread rumors and arrogantly tell other people what to drive is something I can't get my head around. Them plastic Fieros must be real rockets in the 1/4, I tell ya what.
Then there's this news outfit, which either thinks the 1885.. I mean 1985 Fiero frame is wood, or just doesn't know what a frame is. They said it at least twice: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/096674.html
Up here in the salt belt, a plastic frame may have been better.
Yeah- American made; OK, I did some research on this.....Which car does more for keeping the money in this country- A Honda made in Maryland or a Ford made in Mexico? Answer; The Ford made in Mexico......Corp. profits on a $20,000 car are around $10,000(Huge profit- that's why Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc can afford recalls and lawsuits and still show a profit) while the local workforce cost is approx' $300-400......There is more to it than that, but just realize that most of the money on these "American made" foreign-owned autos is going straight back to Japan....And THEY don't pay our taxes- which means WE have to pay more.....
I will go WAAAYYYY outta my way and cost point to buy American made- But remember who owns the company and where the profits are going- Auto manufacturing is one of the most automated industries in the world and there is not a lot of manual labor being done....
Originally posted by cvxjet: Yeah- American made; OK, I did some research on this.....Which car does more for keeping the money in this country- A Honda made in Maryland or a Ford made in Mexico? Answer; The Ford made in Mexico......Corp. profits on a $20,000 car are around $10,000(Huge profit- that's why Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc can afford recalls and lawsuits and still show a profit) while the local workforce cost is approx' $300-400......There is more to it than that, but just realize that most of the money on these "American made" foreign-owned autos is going straight back to Japan....And THEY don't pay our taxes- which means WE have to pay more.....
I will go WAAAYYYY outta my way and cost point to buy American made- But remember who owns the company and where the profits are going- Auto manufacturing is one of the most automated industries in the world and there is not a lot of manual labor being done....
If you think Ford necessarily pays more taxes to the government in the US, than Toyota or Honda might for their US production plants, you are quite mistaken. Ford, like every other large multinational corporation, funnels their money around the world, with the goal of minimizing what they pay in taxes, to maximize their profits. Ford claims a 2015 pre-tax profit of about $10.5B. I'd love to see the tax return on that. Do you think they paid their full $4B share of that? How much do you think they actually paid to all the localities and states where they have production plants and other facilities?
If you really want to "keep the money in the US," then really, what you should buy, is only used vehicles, from local dealerships, owned by people who don't have the resources or knowledge to evade taxes by having massive teams of accountants that get paid to keep money offshore.
Dobey. I have a 1977 CVX-20 Jet boat, a 1985 Fiero, a 1902 house and the "latest" purchase, a 2008 chevy van....Honestly don't plan on purchasing any new vehicles- Maybe I can have a chip installed in my brain- that is the way new cars are going.
For the last twenty years Honda has considered the US buying public "Easy marks"...Basically, put the Honda name on a turd and Americans will buy it- They make a cheap, de-contented car here as the Accord, but in Europe they put the Accord name on a car they sell here as an Acura.
Toyota stated they were going to be the "BIGGEST CAR COMPANY IN THE WORLD!!!" back in 2006-7...I thought they would go down the tubes, concentrating on sales rather than quality....A few years later they went right down the drain- SAME thing that Ford, GM and Chryco did back in the 70s...Arrogance and Hubris. It don't matter how "Superior" most Americans think foreign companies are...
Just as a question for you, who taught the Japanese quality control and where did "lean manufacturing" really come from?
Any tech working on any brand of car will be able to tell you horror stories.. since they deal with broken down cars on a daily basis. I am talking about "big picture" stats collected by reputable agencies. Ditto for resale value. Compare a 10 year old Toyota minvan to a Chev Venture... a 10 year old Corolla to a Sunfire, or a 10 year old Camry to a Grand Am. The Toyota will have depreciated less and they tend to average considerably fewer repairs. Are they perfect? Of course not. But with the exception of full sized trucks, GM vehicles built in the last 30 or so years have not been as reliable as Toyotas. Of course, this is just my opinion and is based on my own personal experience and research- others are free to disagree. Interestingly, the most reliable vehicles I have ever owned have been recent Hyundai and Kia cars built in the USA. 375,000 km and still going, never been to a service shop other than maintenance like brakes and tires.
like I said,, it's marketing,,,, who do you think greased J.D. powers coffers the most?? consumers reports.. don't take ad money, but they do take "donations" follow the money...
Odd thing,, the Toyota dealership service dept.. is much busier than the g.m and ford one, even with twice the techs they have enough work to log/flag more hours.. if they are so solid,, these techs should be like the maytag man.
Originally posted by dobey: If you really want to "keep the money in the US," then really, what you should buy, is only used vehicles, from local dealerships, owned by people who don't have the resources or knowledge to evade taxes by having massive teams of accountants that get paid to keep money offshore.
Or even better from private citizens. That's what I do.
Originally posted by cam-a-lot: Interestingly, the most reliable vehicles I have ever owned have been recent Hyundai and Kia cars built in the USA. 375,000 km and still going, never been to a service shop other than maintenance like brakes and tires.
My current DD is a '13 Kia Soul 6 speed. While thus far it has been reliable, I've found the build quality to be absolutely terrible. Interior pieces are literally falling off along with the clips holding on the front bumper cover wanting to pop out causing some nice panel gap. This is on a 37k mile car. I know the Soul is an entry level car but this seems a bit premature to be falling apart already.
he refused to listen to anything I had to say, he knew it was made by Toiletota. 
I don't know what Toiletota he has but WTF folks, wake up and smell the coffee. or at least read something about what you are talking about, besides just one article about FIRE !
