As many of you know I have been working on the 88 factory ship thru CJB T top Book for ever!!!!!!! Well I have also been trying to get as much as possible the prehistory on the NON-CJB KITS, I know for a "FACT" there were only 200 Authorized Dealers that were allowed to install T-top's into FIero (FYI working on that list as well ) but many of you as well as myself, we have been searching for the famous answers of How many t-top Kits for the Fiero were made that were the NON CJB, well I will need some help and maybe we will come pretty near what that answer is. Here is how you can help the NON CJB fiero t tops had a sticker suck into the car (they have been installed in 4 different place I have found so far: (NOTE IF ITS STILL THERE AFTER SO MANY YEARS)
Driver Door striker (Like the Factory CJB)
Center console (when you open that door)
Drivers map visor
Truck deck-lid (engine compartment)
Anyway how you can help, anyone that has there sticker still intact take a photo a upload into the forums topic, it has a a serial number at the bottom of it, BUT also has a written in date they were installed maybe from this we can figure this out,

Here are 2 links that have those stickers (can someone please upload the photos of them on here before the ad is pulled)
https://detroit.craigslist..../cto/5763066588.html

and

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...110502-1-079792.html

I think this is worth a shot!!!!
-Fiero John-WI

I sent a PM to you.

John,

I have an 87 Mera with the C&C T-Top sticker and will post a picture of it ASAP. The car is at the paint shop right now but I can likely get a photo on Monday.

Nelson

Well here is what I know.

Phillip Edwards was the guy behind the T top at C&C at the time of the Fiero development. I was lucky to spend a weekend at a Fiero even hanging around with him in Pontiac years ago. Here is what he related to me.

C&C [Phillip] contacted Pontiac in 83 to see if they were interested in doing a T top. He was advised it was impossible by the Pontiac engineers. He was given a pilot model and took it back to C&C and they came up with one [I think he told me in a week but I do not recall the exact time. I know it was a very short period of time}.

He took the car back to Pontiac and they were shocked it was able to be done and really studied the car as to how it was done. He asked for the 84 year and every year after to become a factory option. Well he was turned down but Pontiac did make it a official dealer installed option. that means the dealers could send a car to a local C&C installer and they could install it and the dealer could sell the car for a full warranty as a new car. Many did do this over the years.

I had one installed like this here in Ohio and they also did many for the local dealers too. That is how I learned of it seeing new T top cars sold as new.

The local installers often did as good or even better installs. As with mine one man did all the work and was not in a rush to get it done. It took two days and I had no issues with quality of the install. He got it all installed correct and in alignment.

The poster that C&C had many of us own is the car he owns and it was number three of the 1988 models.

Mr Edwards bought the T top division of C&C when it was offered for sale. He Changed the name to Skylite Roofs and they went of for a couple more years till they finally sold out. T top installs became an issue with the new cars and crash standards. Also I am not sure how the company was doing financially in the end. With less T tops on the market it had to hurt them. I did not want to ask him what happened there.

As for how many tops. He quoted to me there was a little over 8,000 kits made. Now keep includes the kits used for kit cars and also for warranties and replacement parts. Spare parts were cannibalized for warranty and replacement parts.
So you can take it from there as to how many were installed. I would say at least 7,000 over the entire run of the Fiero.

I do not know if the 8,000 includes the CJB cars but I would suspect it does.

As we all know T tops were only a small percentage of the total Fiero's made but they are not by any means so rare you can not find one. That would make sense with the number made. Think about it there were just a little more Fiero T tops than the 1978 Indy pace cars and both are about as easy to find so the numbers make sense.

I have heard other come up with odd numbers but Edwards was the guy in charge so I will yield to his word unless someone can document anything to over rule it.

Note too that many cars were converted right at C&C in the prior years right where the CJB cars were converted. Other than the gasket seal and the option code there is no difference in many of the earlier models. Many of them were even done by the same people that did the 88 models.

Now today the difficulty is finding tops in good shape. Many have not aged well and show damage. Seals are torn, glass is scratched and trim is broken. The number of tops in great shape are becoming difficult to find. The trim parts have not been as much a problem to replace as sub parts have worked as well some reproduction parts. The glass and seals will be the most difficult parts to reproduce due to cost and lack of demand.

Phillip Edwards was running a marketing firm to represent performance parts a few years back. I used to see him from time to time and he still had his car. It has been a few years so it is possible he may be retired now?

Phillip was the one that introduced me to Hulki at the FOCOA show back in the 90's at the Pontiac headquarters. Hardly anyone knew who he was and he came by and Phillip introduced me to him. I was one of few that got to speak to him before he left. He never showed up at the dinner that night either. Not sure what was up that day and evening as he was one of the expected speakers.

As for the door stickers I may have mine some place. I took it off before it fell off. These did not stick well and many were damaged.

My car was converted by Custom Trim of Akron that is still in business. It ran right at $1100.

Also in Akron and Cleveland The Roman Chariot shop one of the largest C&C dealers. They had a well known flyer that can still be found on E bay from time to time.

The decals for legal reasons were to have been on the door but that could vary with many installers.

[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 10-01-2016).]

To get a complete story of the non-CJB cars you will have to consider all the cars that were converted by people other than authorized shops. For example I bought the roof section of a t-top car and had it shipped across country and personally installed the t-tops on my car.

The original sticker is long gone from the donor car.

Over they years I have accumulated enough parts to put together another T-top car from parts scrounged from the junk yard. That's two that do not have stickers.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: To get a complete story of the non-CJB cars you will have to consider all the cars that were converted by people other than authorized shops. For example I bought the roof section of a t-top car and had it shipped across country and personally installed the t-tops on my car. The original sticker is long gone from the donor car. Over they years I have accumulated enough parts to put together another T-top car from parts scrounged from the junk yard. That's two that do not have stickers.

I also have a CJB t-top that was installed on what originally was a 1988 hardtop Mera. Therefore, you can add one more to the CJB ranks that is a CJB design but was not a factory install.

Nelson

Good morning fiero people, I think my post has gone in the wrong direction, what I am trying to find out is the after market kit installed and looking at the original C&C sticker in the car, it has a number (stating the kit number and then filled in is the installer and date installed) that is what I am looking for. I have been working with other forums that have had C&C t tops installed into Cameros & Firebirds and Im also working with the mustang forum. We are noticing that the "KIT" number that is on the C&C sticker start with different numbers for different kit (example we "SO FAR" let me stress that "SO FAR" ) Fiero kits what people have posted their C&C sticker on NON-CJB fiero start with 90000, Camero & Firebirds, 10000 and Mustangs I should know something today, this is what I am trying to find out for FIero owners with NON-CJB fiero T tops. So please post if you have that sticker, so we can see if we are going in the right direction of this for Fiero people. I must give credit this is a direction that the firebird guys have come up with and compiling for them, so this is a direction I am trying for Fiero NON CJB t-tops. Hope that explains it better.

John,

See if this is helpful. 1987 Mera constructed on a GT platform. To the best of my knowledge this is an original C&C tag that came with the vehicle.



Nelson

[This message has been edited by hnthomps (edited 10-05-2016).]

Here is mine.
'88 GT, Non CJB.



And the one from the craigslist ad.



Looks like "Quack" was a busy guy!
Quick math on the serial numbers equals 8021.