Well, it has been a crunch trying to find the gremlin that has done an excellent job of hiding himself in my car! Thanks to many on the forum, and especially here locally, Dean and Lou, I think we got it! What a NIGHTMARE THAT WAS!
So, hopefully this was the LAST time that I will snap another picture like this.
Thursday, March 26th, the day I was leaving for Daytona, the car refused to start that morning. Lou was kind enough to come over, and we spent an hour or so diagnosing, as I was getting no fuel pressure with the brand new AC Delco pump installed a few days earlier. It turned out to be a bad ECM. The old fuel pump, that caused a fuse to blow, had taxed the relay circuitry on the ECM, and it finally just gave out. Putting a new ECM in the car, it started up and ran great. I drove through and the car made it to Daytona PERFECTLY!
Friday March 27th, I got up EARLY and we drove to the Old Spanish Sugarmill for breakfast. Here she sits, dead center while parked at the Sugarmill: (WOW! I had to REALLY reduce this panorama to fit it here on PFF and it digitized something terrible!, the original is gorgeous!) Throughout the day we went to 2 state parks, and a lot of scenic cruising. I put around 150 miles on the car on Friday.
Saturday morning, March28th, the day of the show, the car refused to start. With everyone from the show, a few came over to diagnose. 3 mechanics and a few others could not find the problem. It had fuel pressure and spark, but just refused to start. I hitched a ride over to the show.
My nephew drove down from his Marine base in South Carolina where he is stationed to hang out with me at the car show. I was SO dissapointed the car was acting up, as I SOOOooo wanted to be able to drive him around the New Smyrna NASCAR track that night
Saturday afternoon, I came back to the hotel, tapped the key and it started and ran perfectly! WooHoo! I would get to take Kevin around the track after all! I drove the car around the New Smyrna NASCAR track with my nephew riding shotgun. I hammered on the car pretty hard, It was AWESOME! The track is small with short straight away's. I could only get the car up to 80MPH or so before going into the turns. I did take the turns at like 60MPH though The car ran and drove perfectly to, around, and back from the track, to dinner, and eventually back to the hotel. Here she sits on display waiting to take to the track:
Sunday morning, March 29th, the car again refused to start to go across the street to the show. Tried everything, again, had fuel pressure and spark. That afternoon, it started again, with just a tap of the key. I did notice the slightest miss the engine had before heading for the 4 hour drive back home. By the time I got the car home, I was running on 3 cylinders. I can pull the INJ BNK 2 fuse out with the car running, and nothing at all changes. I pull INJ BNK 1 and of course it dies. I swap the fuses, and still bank 2 will not work. More trouble shooting to do.....
Here is a video my nephew shot while driving around the track. the first couple laps are kinda slow and boring, it picks up though Now for a little drinking game. You have to drink a shot for every time I say "Awesome" in the video.
(NOTE: I have a dust shield that I hardly ever hear rub. It only rubs when making a really tight turn quickly. Something I just dealt with, as I said, it does not happen ofter. In this video it just SINGS 1/2 of the time with the endless hard cornering! Needless to say, that is on my list to fix ASAP now!)
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 04-22-2015).]
It was a blast! Not for some maybe, but I have never driven on a track, and certainly never dod 60 MPH through turns before. Here is another favorite picture. It is a screen capture from a video, so not the greatest quality
It was a blast! Not for some maybe, but I have never driven on a track, and certainly never dod 60 MPH through turns before. Here is another favorite picture. It is a screen capture from a video, so not the greatest quality
First off, many, MANY thanks to everyone who has helped to diagnose this gremlin infested and possessed car.
Sad to day, As for now this build is on an indefinite / permanent hold.
This car has thrown problem after problem after problem at me, over and over and over, and I have done my best to over come them.
I paid $350 for the car when I bought it, and another $300 for the engine. To Date I have just over $11,000 into it, and it still does not run. I just hit my last straw today. The problem with it not starting in Daytona, (Problem 1) has still eluded myself and everyone else. Today I took the car over to Lou's and we did some testing. I barely got there as it felt as if I was running on 3 cylinders. We pulled the injector plugs, and all injectors are receiving pulses.
We loosened the distributor, and attempted to time it a bit, and rotating a full quarter turn and hardly any change in the sound of it running. Lou explained that is probably a loose timing chain, or worn gears. (Problem 2) If the chain was tight, and new gears, he says just a small adjustment of a couple degrees makes a significant change in the timing.
Third, pulling the plugs out of cylinders 1,3 & 5 (Rear facing). Cylinder One appeared normal. Plugs 3 & 5 appeared to have water on them. 90% chance of a blown head gasket. (Problem 3)
At this point, I do not have the time nor the resources to do a complete upper engine & timing chain cover / gear stuff. I can work my way around the small stuff, but this is just over the top for my abilities.
I will be putting the car under a cover indefinitely until I decide to sell it, part it out, or the rare chance of putting another engine in it. This was my daily driver, and thus have to purchase another car that is reliable, AKA not a Fiero
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 04-23-2015).]
John...... I personally feel you are doing the right thing by stepping back and putting a cover on it. I did the same with mine a couple of yars ago but at the same time putting money aside (saved from not repairing the damn thing ) after 7 months and 3 grand saved I untarped it stuck a rebuilt performance V8 and here I am now. I know how frustrated you can be .... tides will change and time will help ya ..... till then keep in touch my friend dont sell or part it out you will definately regret it
John --- I don't know jack about motors but are you sure the plug wires are in the right order? I know I've read here of others who mistakenly plugged wire 2 into plug 6 and wire 4 into plug 1 (or whatever). I guess, it runs but not very well.
John --- I don't know jack about motors but are you sure the plug wires are in the right order? I know I've read here of others who mistakenly plugged wire 2 into plug 6 and wire 4 into plug 1 (or whatever). I guess, it runs but not very well.
This wouldn't get water on the plugs, or allow the car to run great the rest of the time.
My SE frustrated me, and sat for almost a year. Dang vented radiator cap.
John, my fellow Hog Father, I agree totally with Danyel; cover it, ignore it, save and continue research. Do not sell or part it out. Don't do anything, don't make any decisions in your present state of mind. You have a fine looking car and you have put a great deal of effort into it. Take your time. Perspective, direction and attitude will slowly become clearer. And remember, you owe me a drink the next time we meet in Frazee, in July 2016.
Argh man that's a pretty crap deal. I'm with everyone else - put the car away and let some time, money and clarity fill the picture for a while. Attack it again when you feel a bit more encouragement - I hang around here just FOR the encouragement to see mine through to either the scrapheap or repair, it does help to talk to like-minded folk.
As far as a good daily driver: I would consider the Pontiac Vibe GT, especially if you can find a manual one. I know its the same as a Toyota Matrix but I like the style and you can't beat the reliability.
As far as a good daily driver: I would consider the Pontiac Vibe GT, especially if you can find a manual one. I know its the same as a Toyota Matrix but I like the style and you can't beat the reliability.
I had a Vibe. You are right. It IS just like the Matrix. It's cheap across the board. The Fiero looks good compared to the Vibe/Matrix. Just like the Matrix, the Vibe's interior flakes, sags, and otherwise falls apart. The fuse block died. When I opened it, it actually had Toyota stamped on it. The coolant tubes had issues, and were crimped. The engine had to be replaced 7 times for manufacturing defects. The tranny slipped. The brake arm pivot broke. Everything leaked. I don't remember all the other problems. Admittedly, I had a brand new 2003. Sold after 1 year. Yes, it's a typical Toyota.
A lady at my work has one. It's the newer, more bloated version. Same problems. A guy at my kids' school has one. Same issues.
On the positive side, I got to drive an Impala while the Vibe was in the shop. The Vibe had about 12 miles on it when purchased, but over 14000 when sold. I put over 36,000 miles on the Impala.
To make sure I NEVER AGAIN buy junk cars, I buy RWD vehicles with 6 or more cylinders. No more rebranded rejects for me. If I wanted a toy, I'd go to the toy store. No more Kia, Hyundai, Toy/lexus, Daewoo, Mazda, Nissan/Infinity, or Honda/Acura. I've owned them all at one time or another. I'm done. Safe and reliable for me means look for quality, which these brands apparently don't have. For cheap junk, by all means.
So sorry to hear all the issues with your beast. I'm not sure if you remember all the intermitant starting issues I had with the indy. Mine also came with a battery drain. I checked all the obvious issues.... ignition switch replaced, 2 starters, new beefed and extra grounds, new ecm, starter blanket, countless batteries, coil replaced.... still every now and again it would not start.
So once I went thru and checked the c 500 I saw my issue. One the c500 was full of gunk and dirt wasp nests. I took everything apart cleaned and repacked with dielectric grease. Reassembled and moved on. The previous owner had removed all fusible links & wired in a new c500. He had an electrical fire on the battery side of things. Tons of red wire replacement every where. His butt connected repairs were intermittently making contact and releasing. There was corrosion under the sheath of every wire with a butt connector.
So I redid very connector with solder and covered the join in dielectric grease then had shrink wrap on top. I went from the 84 wiring configuration and converted to the 85 and up style with the remote power block junction versus everything running to the starter. All power wires were bumped up a size. New fusible links added.... these had to go in with butt connectors, but we're properly crimped and shrink wrapped with dielectric grease. The alternator was upgraded amperage with 8 Guage running to the junction block and battery. The power & ground lines were also bumped to 2 guage if I remember right. I looked online and learned about proper alternator power routing to and from battery and to the distribution block. I opted change a few factory taps off the alternator sense line to the distribution block instead. The sense line needs to be clean of draws and a true read of what the distribution block sees. So it can adapt to the vehicles needs.
Amazingly on the other side of this slow going project.... the car was fixed. No drain no intermitant issues... it was a saint after that. So this could very well be a crap electrical line. Just take some time and go slow a bit at a time... you might just accidently find it... lol.
------------------ Please forgive my typos, I'm typically posting via cell.
1984 Indy Fiero SE Pace Car Replica #770 "SE" Stormtrooper Edition Rescued, resuscitated and reversibly modified! (I'm so not done yet!) Poly all round & Black Drag DR-34s Frt: 225/45 on 18x8 (47 offset w/ 8-9mm spacer) 1.5 coils cut off 1984 WS6 springs Rear: 265/35 on 18x8.5 (45 offset) Coil-overs w/ 10 inch 300lb springs & 7 inch sleeve
I had a Vibe. You are right. It IS just like the Matrix. It's cheap across the board. The Fiero looks good compared to the Vibe/Matrix. Just like the Matrix, the Vibe's interior flakes, sags, and otherwise falls apart. The fuse block died. When I opened it, it actually had Toyota stamped on it. The coolant tubes had issues, and were crimped. The engine had to be replaced 7 times for manufacturing defects. The tranny slipped. The brake arm pivot broke. Everything leaked. I don't remember all the other problems. Admittedly, I had a brand new 2003. Sold after 1 year. Yes, it's a typical Toyota.
A lady at my work has one. It's the newer, more bloated version. Same problems. A guy at my kids' school has one. Same issues.
On the positive side, I got to drive an Impala while the Vibe was in the shop. The Vibe had about 12 miles on it when purchased, but over 14000 when sold. I put over 36,000 miles on the Impala.
To make sure I NEVER AGAIN buy junk cars, I buy RWD vehicles with 6 or more cylinders. No more rebranded rejects for me. If I wanted a toy, I'd go to the toy store. No more Kia, Hyundai, Toy/lexus, Daewoo, Mazda, Nissan/Infinity, or Honda/Acura. I've owned them all at one time or another. I'm done. Safe and reliable for me means look for quality, which these brands apparently don't have. For cheap junk, by all means.
Why don't you tell us how you really feel, lol. I defer to your experience since you owned one.
Our DD is a 2009 Pontiac Vibe .... we are at 60K miles and had NO issues what so ever. This car can hold alot of stuff .... we went on a trip 4000+ to Frazee Mn with it and it was great...best new car we ever bought ,,,, besides the Fiero of course
I agree with rest at this point it would be good to take a long rest of the car. Just do something else gratifying and feel good. After a while then you start thinking back about the car and start getting the itch. Then you come back recharged with a fresh mind, ideas and new commitment to work on it. Protect it with a good cover so it doesn't deteriorate, put a trickle charger, etc. so when you come back you don't have new cosmetic issues. You started with a $600 car and have taken it very far. You are almost there. If that means a new motor or rebuilt then so be it. If after so many things you haven't give up then why then do it now? Take that break. Good luck!
Now that's much better. I, for one, would like to thank Cliff for cleaning up the mess so the rest of us can get back to talking about Fieros and such.
The fiero does push your buttons some time we do own old cars and stuff does break. My last car was a 2003 Toyota matrix xr with trd sway bars. Handled just like the fiero if you ask me and I have pushed it's limit's too. 70,000 miles and it never broke.good luck with your car John.
Small update to keep this thread out of the archives:
I covered the car back in April of last year, and have not touched it since. I have decided to do a 3800 swap on it, as I will not put another penny into that engine in the hopes that it will eventually run someday. With as much time, effort, money and such put into this car, I decided not to abandon it all.
I am actively seeking a 3800 and parts to complete it. I have a potential engine and harness in Alabama, but am waiting to hear back from the person. Correspondence was good at the beginning, and I have not heard from them in a month in return to my multiple emails. It is a decent engine, and complete harness for an Automatic with A/C, so I hope it goes through. If not, I will find another engine here somewhere.
I had started another thread titled: Wanting to do a swap, I need a 3800SC engine, parts, and ANY advice you can offer up! It's purpose was to source an engine, and get advice on doing my swap. That thread was successful, as it looks like I have secured an engine in Montgomery, Alabama from IROCTAFIERO. I just need to go get it, or have it shipped, it is 50/50 right now on which one I am gonna do.
What it includes:
2004 Grand Prix Series 3 S/C engine (Roughly 80,000 Miles on it)
4T65E(HD) from same car, still attached to engine
4T65E to Fiero Transmission mount
1 SLP 3.5 pulley and pulley tool (adds roughly an additional 15-20 HP)
1 FieroFlyer wiring harness Built for an 1987 GT automatic with A/C (Mine is an 86 with A/C and no changes are needed that I know of at this point)
ECM programmed and tuned by FieroFlyer
1 Throttle Body from a Series II
1 Throttle Body adapter
What I still need: (Engine and mounting parts at least)
Coil Packs
Module
Engine Mounts
Correct Axels Here is the engine:
Here is the transmission mount:
I will do my best to detail every thing that I have to do do get the engine in my car up to the point is is complete in this thread. It is going to get a few weeks before I get the engine, and probably slow progress to begin with as I gather all the remaining parts, and plan everything out.
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 07-07-2024).]
Did you decide to do the swap yourself, or are you still planning on having a professional do it?
I honestly have no plans as of yet hahah! I do know a few local mechanics that do side work, as I know I can not do it all myself. I am however going to get the engine to start with, tear things off, replace gaskets, clean it up, paint it ect. I will be doing this on the weekends, and take my time. Next will be removing the 2.8, (with help) thus freeing up the cradle to start build on. From that point, not too sure yet. I am just going to take it as it goes.
quote
Originally posted by redraif:
Glad to see.ou decided to keep the beast alive. Look forward to seeing it transform.
Yea, I do hope to get it running, and actually be able to drive it! I may even try to make a GA meeting when the bugs are worked out.
I honestly have no plans as of yet hahah! I do know a few local mechanics that do side work, as I know I can not do it all myself. I am however going to get the engine to start with, tear things off, replace gaskets, clean it up, paint it ect. I will be doing this on the weekends, and take my time. Next will be removing the 2.8, (with help) thus freeing up the cradle to start build on. From that point, not too sure yet. I am just going to take it as it goes.
I'm kinda in the same boat-- I have no idea what I'm doing and would get in DEEP over my head, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to try. My plan is to pull the cradle from my 88 parts car and build my swap on there while the 87 is still intact. That way not only do I have an engine swap I need to deal with, but ALSO a cradle swap!
Please post as detailed of a thread as you can, including roadblocks and lessons learned. Most build threads I have read tend to gloss over "simple" stuff that guys with experience take for granted. It's that simple stuff that a novice like me might not think of until it's too late and derails the build for a long time.
Originally posted by Napoleon_Tanerite: Most build threads I have read tend to gloss over "simple" stuff that guys with experience take for granted. It's that simple stuff that a novice like me might not think of until it's too late and derails the build for a long time.
Hey! I know EXACTLY what you mean. I just came across a GREAT thread yesterday that has a lot of great information. A few things I did not know such as T'ing the heater core lines behind the alternator, best transmission lines to use and a few other neat tips. I read the thread from top to bottom last night, copied some stuff into my swap notes, and saved a few pictures.
Actually that is at least year old there. The first painted year (2011)I didnt have the Formula Decal or rocker extension.
) after 7 months and 3 grand saved I untarped it stuck a rebuilt performance V8 and here I am now. I know how frustrated you can be .... tides will change and time will help ya ..... till then keep in touch my friend dont sell or part it out you will definately regret it
