The air intake temp seems too high, unless that is post supercharger air temp. After the car sits overnight, you might want to turn the key on and see what the value is. It should be ambient temp, if it isn't within about 5 degrees the air temp sensor (or its wiring) might be an issue.

Is your fuel pressure regulator vacuum/boost referenced?

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 07-06-2017).]

quote Originally posted by nosrac: Your intake temps are high as hell. You may want to put that filter in the quarter panel. Also, where did you get that FPR? Does it work like the stock FPR on a S2 fuel rail but adjustable?

I know the intake is high, and that is something I will address later. Getting it running is my goal right now. I plan to move the filter / intake into the custom fiberglass side scoop and make it functional. Even with the temp high like this, is should not cause any problems. I can probably look forward to a couple HP increase when I make it a cold air intake.

If you look back at the gauge display, the little yellow tick mark on the intake temperature gauge is at 100 degrees. That is the lowest reading, from when I started the car. That is probably spot on, as it was around 90 degrees, so another 10 for the engine bay of the car sitting in the sun.

I purchased the FPR on Amazon. When I did the swap, I was unaware that it need be regulated, as again, I am no mechanic. It was pushing almost 100 PSI from the Silverado Fuel Pump. The FPR is adjustable, and I set it to around 52% on the output side.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 07-06-2017).]

Where is the vacuum hose connected to the engine - above or below the supercharger?

It's connected to the plastic adapter on the top of the SC that has 3 ports.

I took the car for a drive last night, and it ran better than it has up till now. I was able to accelerate pretty quickly. To the point where I now can hear the SC kick in. Strangely it has been getting better and better over time.

It still is acting up, just not as bad as before. I think I am gonna pay Lou a visit this weekend. He has done a few of these swaps.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 07-07-2017).]

Is the vacuum line to the MAP sensor attached to the plastic fitting on top of S/C?
It should be attached to the port below the snout of the S/C. Also attached to the MAP line should be the Fuel Pressure Regulator vacuum signal.

quote Originally posted by JohnWPB: It's connected to the plastic adapter on the top of the SC that has 3 ports.

FPR vacuum line needs to be connected to the vacuum port on the lower intake right underneath the supercharger snout to get a proper boost reference.

quote Originally posted by olejoedad: Is the vacuum line to the MAP sensor attached to the plastic fitting on top of S/C? It should be attached to the port below the snout of the S/C. Also attached to the MAP line should be the Fuel Pressure Regulator vacuum signal.

Wow somehow I didn't even see olejoedad's post, I just must have hit reply and started typing when I saw you had the FPR hooked up in the wrong spot. Fingers crossed that's all you need to change to get this thing running right.

[This message has been edited by zmcdonal (edited 07-07-2017).]

The MAP is connected to the port underneath the snout. I will remedy that tonight and connect both the map and FPR to the port under the snout.

quote Originally posted by JohnWPB: The MAP is connected to the port underneath the snout. I will remedy that tonight and connect both the map and FPR to the port under the snout.

Your pic shows the MAP connected to the SC port. You have 2 MAP sensors and the left one is connected the SC vac port.

quote Originally posted by nosrac: Your pic shows the MAP connected to the SC port. You have 2 MAP sensors and the left one is connected the SC vac port.

whoops...
how'd we miss that one lol

quote Originally posted by ignorant prodigy: whoops... how'd we miss that one lol

I saw it but I didn't think it was an issue because both the FPR and the MAP at connected to the SC vac port. Why can't you use this port? Inquiring minds want to know.

I assume the vac nipple under the SC on the LIM is capped off. Your vac is 20 at idle so that is a good indication there are NO vac leaks.

[This message has been edited by nosrac (edited 07-07-2017).]

well it's supposed to be measuring pressure in the intake manifold. Hence the name.
I don't know.. but my gut tells me the pressure could be different pre and post going through the supercharger?

http://www.fastfieros.com/t...nd_how_they_work.htm

the engine uses the MAP sensor to help govern the fuel under load? That's what I remember reading years ago at least
.. which means while driving (up hills etc).. not idle.

waiting for someone who knows better to chime in

Your issue points to too much fuel or not enough air.
When you get back to it, remove your Air filter, eyeball the TB while you manually open it. This will eliminate any restrictions from the air filter.
If you have torque pro up you should see the Throttle Position match your manually manipulating the throttle.
If you are giving it 10% throttle but the computer is seeing 30% throttle it will add the necessary fuel but the corresponding air ratio isn't present.
Didn't you just fix a high idle problem with the TPS? I'm wondering if it needs calibration or something via case learn procedure?

Torque Pro is killing me here.... I have verified, checked, and re-verified all of the log settings. I chose what PID's to log, and a .5 second interval. I tried 3 different times, and keep getting the same thing. Some of the information records, and some does not, then later in the same log, the stuff that was logging, stops, and the stuff that was not logging starts to log. You will see it as you scroll down through the sheet. With this mess, I hope someone can make sense of the log file.

I uploaded the LOG FILE HERE.

Edit to add: The high idle issues was my fault. I installed the TPS incorrectly by just putting it directly on, It needs to be turned 30 degrees, push it in , and then turn it to line up the screw holes.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 07-07-2017).]

There are multiple PID's some work and some don't. IIRC, the ones that get data are shown in green. Also, there is an extended PID list that you need to get KR. I need the following values logged. I think Ryan made a guide on here for Torque Pro and a Bluetooth adapter.

Commanded A/F Boost Desired Idle ECT FT Cell IAT Injector PW KR LTFT MAF MAP(inHg) MAP(kPa) MPH O2 RPM Spark STFT TP %

quote Originally posted by nosrac: I saw it but I didn't think it was an issue because both the FPR and the MAP at connected to the SC vac port. Why can't you use this port? Inquiring minds want to know.

I think this has been covered already but I'll add my explanation:

The fuel pressure regulator needs to be connected after the supercharger to maintain the correct ratio of pressure in the fuel rail to pressure in the lower manifold.
This constant ratio allows the fuel injectors to spray fuel at a constant flow rate no mater the pressure.
If it is connected before the supercharger then while under boost, the pressure difference between the fuel rail and manifold will be too low and the fuel injectors won't be spraying as much fuel as the computer expects.

The MAP sensor should also be after the SC so that it sees pressure at the heads.

Hope that helps.

[This message has been edited by Domtech (edited 07-07-2017).]

quote Originally posted by Domtech: I think this has been covered already but I'll add my explanation: The fuel pressure regulator needs to be connected after the supercharger to maintain the correct ratio of pressure in the fuel rail to pressure in the lower manifold. This constant ratio allows the fuel injectors to spray fuel at a constant flow rate no mater the pressure. If it is connected before the supercharger then while under boost, the pressure difference between the fuel rail and manifold will be too low and the fuel injectors won't be spraying as much fuel as the computer expects. The MAP sensor should also be after the SC so that it sees pressure at the heads. Hope that helps.

Yes that helps. Me personally just copied what others did but wasn't 100% why they did it.

quote Originally posted by nosrac: There are multiple PID's some work and some don't. IIRC, the ones that get data are shown in green. Also, there is an extended PID list that you need to get KR. I need the following values logged. I think Ryan made a guide on here for Torque Pro and a Bluetooth adapter. Commanded A/F Boost Desired Idle ECT FT Cell IAT Injector PW KR LTFT MAF MAP(inHg) MAP(kPa) MPH O2 RPM Spark STFT TP %

I already have all the PID's. And I am set to log them. The problem is that Torque Pro is logging half the PID's I have set for a few minutes, and putting 0's in the other half. Then some time later the ones it was logging turn to 0's and the other ones are propigated with data.

Here is a screen capture for a visual reference, you can see the data as it goes down stop. Then the data appears for ones that were not showing previously. I have no way to troubleshoot or diagnose why Torque would possible do this.

I don't know, either, but whatever the first 2 columns are, they changed drastically when the flip occurs.

You may have too many PID's selected and your refresh set too fast. Only log the ones highlighted in green because they are active. Skip the google coordinate stuff and only use the 3800 PIDs. Try and log the values from list I sent.
A lot of the values you have won't really help in troubleshooting.

Ok, I got a better log this time, yet still not perfect. I added all of the stuff, I THINK, that was mentioned above to capture. It still is logging things kinda wonky, as O2 Voltage Bank 1 & 2 sensors did not start logging till almost 10 minutes into the drive, while everything else was logging just fine.

HERE IS THE NEW LOG FILE

Here is an interesting little video I shot while out recording data tonight

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 07-07-2017).]

Well I really did it up good this time! I drilled a hole to run some LED's to light up the engine bay. I wanted them as hidden as possible, and nothing visible when the decklid is open. I guess I had the drill on far more of an angle than I thought I did. This little mistake is gonna cost some time and money for sure.....

Drilling the hole from below:


Coming out the top of the decklid:

What color are your interior lights? Mine are ”white”, but have a bluish tint I don't like.

quote Originally posted by tshark: What color are your interior lights? Mine are ”white”, but have a bluish tint I don't like.

The ones I got are plain white from what I can tell. I notice no bluish tint to them. I ordered them from Wish.com. They are $1 and are REALLY bright. They comes with the adapters to plug into any of the sockets in the Fiero from the dome lights, Floor courtesy lights, and the plug in the front trunk. HERE ARE THE ONES I USED.

The only bad thing about wish.com are the deliver times usually 2 to 3 weeks from when the order is placed

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 07-09-2017).]

I posted a new Torque Pro log file on Friday. Did anyone get a chance to glance it over? I'm hoping that something stands out to someone, so I have an idea what direction to go in now. I did verify the plugs are gapped at 50. There was also concerned that the fuel pressure regulator is not increasing with throttle position. I want to see if there's anything in the logs before I go changing out the fuel pressure regulator system all over again.

My sincere appreciation and thanks ahead of time for any help whatsoever.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 07-10-2017).]

Weren't you symptoms a loss of power under load?
Have you not moved the fuel pressure reference line to after the supercharger yet? If that's the case then go ahead and move it, and I bet you will see significantly improved performance under boost.

quote Originally posted by JohnWPB: I posted a new Torque Pro log file on Friday. Did anyone get a chance to glance it over? I'm hoping that something stands out to someone, so I have an idea what direction to go in now. I did verify the plugs are gapped at 50. There was also concerned that the fuel pressure regulator is not increasing with throttle position. I want to see if there's anything in the logs before I go changing out the fuel pressure regulator system all over again. My sincere appreciation and thanks ahead of time for any help whatsoever.

I did look over the log and the obvious issue is misfires. You have random misfires on cylinder #1, #2 ,#3 ,#4 with most of them occurring on #3. Check you plug wires, perform a Case Learn, and address the IAT's. Moving the filter to the fender is easy and highly recommended. There are multiple causes for misfires and heat is a big one. I believe normal operating temp for the engine is 195*. It seems like you have a 160* T-stat. I wouldn't run anything cooler than a 180* T-stat. The tune will rich en up the AFR if it doesn't reach normal operating temperature. I also need to see Long Term Fuel trims to see if the PCM is seeing a rich or lean condition.

quote Originally posted by Domtech: Weren't you symptoms a loss of power under load? Have you not moved the fuel pressure reference line to after the supercharger yet? If that's the case then go ahead and move it, and I bet you will see significantly improved performance under boost.

I set out to move it the other night, ans could not find a 3 way connector with different size nipples on it. Talking to JoeDad, he suggested using shrink tube to test it out for now, so that's what I will do this evening.

quote Originally posted by nosrac: You have random misfires on cylinder #1, #2 ,#3 ,#4 with most of them occurring on #3. Check you plug wires, perform a Case Learn, and address the IAT's. Moving the filter to the fender is easy and highly recommended. There are multiple causes for misfires and heat is a big one. I believe normal operating temp for the engine is 195*. It seems like you have a 160* T-stat. I wouldn't run anything cooler than a 180* T-stat. The tune will rich en up the AFR if it doesn't reach normal operating temperature. I also need to see Long Term Fuel trims to see if the PCM is seeing a rich or lean condition.

Thanks for looking over the log.

I just ordered a cold air intake tube to put the filter into the side scoop, it will be here Wendesday.
The wires are un new condition, and I see no spark leak at night. The wires are new, and have under 10 hours run time on them. I have ensured they are snapped on tight to the coil packs and the plugs.
The thermostat is a 185 T-Stat, and Ryan programmed for the 185. It had not come completely up to tempreature before I started the logging. I seem to run between 180 and 210 on average.
I will see about the long term fuel trim, and if I can add it to Torque's log

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 07-10-2017).]

You don't want to see any misfires. If plug wires are good then check coil pack. They are cheap and can be easily swapped out. Best to get a known good one and swap out n to see if misfires go away. You could also move existing one around to see if misfires follow. I had brand new plug wires too but one got too close to the exhaust manifold and......misfire city. Spark plug gap and heat range can also contribute to misfires. Long story short is you have to eliminate all of the misfires. Your killing your acceleration...smalls..lol
When you get LTFT logged you want trims at 0 (perfect ) but -3 is a tad rich and recommended on the safe side. Anything in negative double digits is too rich. I saw -25 on your STFT and if that was a LTFT then that is basically dumping too much fuel and probably will see black smoke out the tail pipe. The STFT basically create LTFT over time.

quote Originally posted by nosrac: You don't want to see any misfires. If plug wires are good then check coil pack. They are cheap and can be easily swapped out. Best to get a known good one and swap out n to see if misfires go away. You could also move existing one around to see if misfires follow. I had brand new plug wires too but one got too close to the exhaust manifold and......misfire city. Spark plug gap and heat range can also contribute to misfires. Long story short is you have to eliminate all of the misfires. Your killing your acceleration...smalls..lol When you get LTFT logged you want trims at 0 (perfect ) but -3 is a tad rich and recommended on the safe side. Anything in negative double digits is too rich. I saw -25 on your STFT and if that was a LTFT then that is basically dumping too much fuel and probably will see black smoke out the tail pipe. The STFT basically create LTFT over time.

Agree with this. Did you built those Accel wires or just used them out of the box (came assembled)? I always had bad luck with Accel wires/plugs so I do not like them nor recommend them. On mine at the end I also ended with ceramic (yes expensive) plugs because the others were burning and giving missfires. If you have some old stock ones I would try them out. Hell, I would even go to the pick & pull and get a decent stock set if available to try it out. You are getting closer.

Measure the resitance in each wire too. Bad ones will be totally obvious usually.

I appreciate the help, I REALLY do. But I have answered and addressed the same questions and concerns quite a few times. I posted about 10 posts back, an exhaustive list in detail of what had been done so far. Just about everything mentioned above, has been covered already.

This includes mentioning that the spark plug wires are brand new, High Performance 7mm. I also mentioned that I checked the condition of them, and they are in good shape, no melted spots or burns ect.. I also mentioned that I replace all 3 coil packs with brand new ones just a week ago. I also mentioned that I gapped the plugs to 45 on multiple peoples recommendations.

I still have to get the Intake temperature down, and the parts to do that will be here Wednesday. I had other stuff to do this afternoon, and did not get a chance to split off the vacuum under the snout to tie in the fuel regulator vacuum.

Here is the list of stuff from a few posts back, updated with everything current.

• I have replaced the MAF sensor, (03/05/16) (Ryan programmed for the one that I have) I also checked it today and the filament is nice and clean.
  
• The MAP vacuum line goes directly to the port just under the snout of the super charger
  
• I have 52 PSI of fuel pressure, that stays steady as I advance the throttle on the throttle body with my hand, both when doing so slowly or "blipping" it.
  
• The spark plugs are new and are properly gapped to this engines specifications (changed to 45 upon everyone's recommendations)
  
• The wires are high quality, 7mm, and are one year old. Though they only have a few hours run time on them. I checked each one, and they are still in like new shape.
  
• The injectors are stock, and were programmed for in the tune. I cleaned them with pressurized Injector cleaner on the bench with 9v battery to pulse the injectors with a momentary switch. They now spray a nice clean cone shape.
  
• I replaced the coils (07/03/17)
  
• I replaced the throttle Position Sensor (07/03/17)

quote Originally posted by Alex4mula: Agree with this. Did you built those Accel wires or just used them out of the box (came assembled)? I always had bad luck with Accel wires/plugs so I do not like them nor recommend them.

I made a mistake, I had purchased Acel wires for the 2.8, and had that in my mind. I actually purchased these ACDelco wires. Most expensive ones the store had in stock, labled Premium 7mm Advanced High Temperature.

quote Originally posted by wgpierce: Measure the resitance in each wire too. Bad ones will be totally obvious usually.

What type of resistance reading should I bee looking for on the wires? Electrical stuff is my weakness. I pretty much know how to check for continuity and voltage. "Ohm" to me is something you do when you are meditating

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 07-11-2017).]

quote Originally posted by JohnWPB: What type of resistance reading should I bee looking for on the wires? Electrical stuff is my weakness. I pretty much know how to check for continuity and voltage. "Ohm" to me is something you do when you are meditating

Depends on the wires. often around 500 ohms/foot.
Bad ones will read much higher than ones of similar length.
Also look for any marks on the wires where it could have been arcing thru the rubber.

Like said before, seeing LTFT in your log would help a lot. But honestly it just looks like your fuel pressure is maybe 3psi too high at idle and then lean under boost, which is probably where the misfires are coming from.

Sorry, disregard the following post. Didn't see that you had changed how you had the MAP hooked up. Have you tried driving it after fixing that?

quote Originally posted by JohnWPB: I still have to get the Intake temperature down, and the parts to do that will be here Wednesday. I had other stuff to do this afternoon, and did not get a chance to split off the vacuum under the snout to tie in the fuel regulator vacuum.

I wouldn't worry about further diagnosis until you hook that MAP sensor up properly. A bad MAP sensor can cause all of the issues you are describing.

quote Symptoms of a Faulty Manifold Pressure Sensor A faulty manifold pressure sensor has symptoms that closely resemble a vehicle with injector problems or low compression problems. Here are some of the most common symptoms associated with a faulty manifold pressure sensor: A rich or lean fuel mixture. You may notice a gas smell after the engine has warmed up. The engine will knock or ping at times for no apparent reason Excessive fuel consumption A rough idle Hesitation or slight jerking during acceleration, or when putting the vehicle into drive The vehicle stalls or dies immediately after you try to give the engine gas to start the car moving

quote Taken from Sinister Performance's site: When the engine is started, the ECM uses the MAP sensor readings to determine engine load. This is the primary sensor it uses to determine fuel and spark delivery to the engine. The MAP sensor reading is factored in with engine RPM to calculate volumetric efficiency. This is known as Speed Density (engine speed and density of the air charge). Volumetric efficiency (VE) is the term used to describe the amount of air an engine is ingesting vs. the amount of air it can actually hold, expressed in a percentage. If the engine is ingesting the maximum amount of air it can hold, then that engine is considered to be operating at 100% VE. Most naturally aspirated engines never see 100% VE; but engines using specially-tuned intake manifolds can accomplish this. Of course this can also be accomplished and exceeded with a turbo or supercharger by adding boost. Most naturally aspirated engines typically see up to 80-90% VE without a tuned intake design. Obviously if there is a problem with the MAP sensor, or the vacuum/pressure readings it is getting are not accurate, this is going to greatly affect the way the engine runs. GM MAP sensors aren’t easily prone to failure, but I have seen them fail if exposed to great pressures such as what could occur if the engine backfired thru the intake. The most common situation that I see that can cause issues with the MAP sensor is a vacuum leak. Any kind of vacuum leak will cause the pressure levels the MAP sensor sees to be lower than expected. This tends to cause the Air/Fuel mixture to go rich (because the ECM thinks the engine is under a load).

I wouldn't even worry about the FPR vacuum hose just yet if you don't have the proper vacuum fittings, I ran my FPR on my 3800 without a vacuum line on it at all for over a year and it ran just fine (granted it wasn't setup right, but it will not cause noticeable symptoms or drive-ability issues). I would just get that MAP setup right and see how it drives at that point.

[This message has been edited by zmcdonal (edited 07-11-2017).]