The car has been running decent for the past couple of weeks. I've gotten the chance to drive it quite a bit. Something I've noticed over time is when I first start the car I can just tap the key and it starts when it's cold. After it's warmed up like if I go to a store and come out it's a little bit harder to start maybe two to three seconds. I also notice when it's cold if I step on it it will really take off and go. After it's warmed up to temperature it will sputter and bog down when I try to go. Not sure what could be causing this. Any suggestions or ideas?
I'd look into the tune, sounds like cold start and open loop are working well but there may need to be some adjustments made. You may be able to do some data logging with your elm327 that you could send out to get a better tune. Finding a place that could dyno tune it would be better.
[This message has been edited by jmbishop (edited 12-29-2017).]
Ok, I have moved a discussion on Facebook to here. Facebook is great for certain things, but finding a post from a few days ago, and seeing if there are any replies is not one of them!
I have been burning WAY too much fuel, averaging 14~15 MPG. On Facebook , from a video I posted, people have noted that the LTFT values are way out of whack! The consensus has been that I have a vacuum leak somewhere. I bought a can of starting fluid and set to work. I sprayed everywhere, and and can find no leak. I then ripped out every vacuum line, and verified that the seal around the ports, splitters and such are secure. I have still found nothing.
Here is the layout of my vacuum lines, and I have checked each of the connections visually, and with starter fluid, for a seal.
Here is the video I did a couple days ago showing the short and long term fuel data while driving:
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 01-14-2018).]
Disconnect line 2 in your second picture and cap the port on the throttle body. That should help a bit.
I just gave that a try, and did not notice any change. The tablet is showing around -15 on the LTFT at idle. The STFT fluctuates from 0 to -17 or so while idling.
In the mean time, I drove to Miami and had my PKE alarm installed. I had the feature in a rental car last year, and fell in love with it! When I get about 15 feet from the Fiero, it unlocks. I hop in, tap a button and start the engine. When I get out, and walk 15 or so feet away, it locks itself.
I still have a key for the door on my key ring as a backup. If I completely lose my keys, there is also a keypad affixed to the top left of the window, behind the factory tint at the top of the windshield. This makes it hard to see from the outside. I wanted it this way, instead of the bottom left corner of the windshield, as see this ugly keypad in the window. I can tap in a 6 digit code through the glass, and it will unlock the doors, as well as allow you to drive it. If you get the code wrong 3 times, it will lock down the keypad for one hour. It seems like the covered all the bases in case something goes wrong.
There is very little dash space on the Fiero for a start button. The best place I found to mount it is between the window switches. It would be hard to accidentally depress it, as it depresses quite a ways, so of anything was to be dropped on it, the rim of the switch would stop the button from being depressed. Secondly, you have to have your foot on the brake for the button to be active for starting, or turning off the car.
I have only had it in the car since yesterday, but it sure has been nice the 4 times I have driven it. No more fumbling with keys either for the door or for the ignition.
I posted in the mall a little bit ago, looking for a new center surround and top plate. MAACO really screwed up the top plate. They somehow got paint on it, yes in the car. They then tried to sand or use spirits on it. Them piling in the spoiler, mirrors, head light doors, and other stuff broke the ash tray doors, and cracked the plate as well. I already found a center arm rest in EXCELLENT condition at Daytona last year from a totaled 88 with around 1,000 miles on it.
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 01-14-2018).]
Originally posted by JohnWPB: I just gave that a try, and did not notice any change. The tablet is showing around -15 on the LTFT at idle. The STFT fluctuates from 0 to -17 or so while idling.
Fuel trims take time to change.
The way you had that vacuum line, it would most likely keep the bypass valve from opening since it had vacuum on both sides. Fixing that should definitely help your mileage at idle.
The high negative fuel trims indicate that there is too much fuel and it is trying to reduce it. Could be sticking injectors, fuel pressure too high, sensor/tuning issue, etc...
The way you had that vacuum line, it would most likely keep the bypass valve from opening since it had vacuum on both sides. Fixing that should definitely help your mileage at idle.
The high negative fuel trims indicate that there is too much fuel and it is trying to reduce it. Could be sticking injectors, fuel pressure too high, sensor/tuning issue, etc...
Having a vacuum on both sides of it, kind of made me wonder as well. But I brushed it off because the "mechanic" that help me out ran the vacuum lines that way. I will take it for a drive today or tomorrow and see if it will not start to adjust itself. As for the fuel injector sticking it's possible but they only have 35 thousand miles on them, and I cleaned them very good when I had the engine broke down. As for fuel pressure, it is spot-on as everything seemed to lead to fuel pressure up to this point, so the fuel pump, lines and regulator were gone over thoroughly. I have a gauge continually on the car and it showing 53 PSI, which supposedly is exactly what this engine is supposed to use. As for sensors, I think I've replaced all of them by now :-)
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 01-17-2018).]
luckily the boost bypass actuator is easy to test: blip the throttle and see if it flips the lever from vertical to horizontal. It should be horizontal when off and vertical at idle.
53psi seems high. My car with a stock series 2 regulator is about 46psi at idle. Is your 53psi measurement when not running? 53psi might be right for a series 3 return-less tune, but you're running a series 2 PCM, so maybe it is a bit high. From what I just looked up, for a pre 2000 PCM it should be 48-58 when not running, and 3-10 psi less when idling.
Hope that info help, but it seems like something else is still wrong.
luckily the boost bypass actuator is easy to test: blip the throttle and see if it flips the lever from vertical to horizontal. It should be horizontal when off and vertical at idle.
53psi seems high. My car with a stock series 2 regulator is about 46psi at idle. Is your 53psi measurement when not running? 53psi might be right for a series 3 return-less tune, but you're running a series 2 PCM, so maybe it is a bit high. From what I just looked up, for a pre 2000 PCM it should be 48-58 when not running, and 3-10 psi less when idling.
Hope that info help, but it seems like something else is still wrong.
I am gonna go test the boost bypass when I get home.
I did a LOT of research and picked a lot of brains on the forum. I even changed out a new regulator, for another one, as the old one was fluctuating slightly. This one is pretty rock solid ad 52-32 psi.
Found this on a GM 3800SC Forum: "On a Series III 3800 engine the returnless EFI system. There is no fuel return line from the engine back to the tank. The fuel pressure on these engines should be 52 to 62 psi with the key on and engine off. "
That pretty much matches up any of the results I can find on the net.
Thanks for the info, as everything is appreciated to try to narrow this down.
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 01-15-2018).]
Those are the specs for a series 3. If you have a cable driven throttle then your PCM is tuned as if it is a series 2, which has a slightly different fuel pressure.
Anybody that knows me, knows I love the color blue. People that know me well, will say that I am obsessed with it
A friend of mine, Terry, found this the other day, and said he absolutely just had to get it for me. He said to call it an early Birthday gift (It's a week away yet) The best part is, that it actually has a very nice scent! I can be picky when it comes to cologne, as I hate anything spicy or "musky".
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 06-16-2019).]
Disconnecting the 2nd line that goes from the BBV to the TB should have nothing to do with the loss of boost. It's the other one that goes to the vac tree up top that kills the boost.
Disconnecting the 2nd line that goes from the BBV to the TB should have nothing to do with the loss of boost. It's the other one that goes to the vac tree up top that kills the boost.
Ok, its late, but this was bugging me. I reconnected the "2nd line" and took it for a drive, and the boost is working again. I did a quick video.
When I start the video, the vacuum line is hooked up, and you can see when I blip the throttle, the boost bypass activates. You can just barely see it under the BPV. I the disconnected the vacuum line, and plugged the open hose to the TB with my thumb. I blip the throttle again, and nothing (Watch for the second time, as I had the camera pointed wrong here). The BPV does not move. I reconnect the 2nd line, and blip the throttle, and again, you can see it activate / move.
I have no doubt that you know what you are talking about, but this car never follows the rules.
I wondered if it was not backwards..... As a test, I unhooked the vacuum line on the other side of the BPV, and set the front one to vacuum, and when I blip the throttle, the BPV does not move. That shoots the backwards theory.....
For now I hooked it back up as in the above pictures, as the car is just too slow with it disconnected
Also, to note: When I unhooked vacuum line 2, and capped off the throttle body, the STFT and LTFT are exactly the same as with it hooked up. This was based on a short 15 minute drive.
Maybe I should explain how that setup is supposed to work to help you diagnose it:
The top of the actuator goes to the vacuum (usually the tree on the supercharger). When vacuum is high (closed throttle) it pulls the bypass valve open (vertical). It should be open at idle.
The lower port is used to give the PCM the ability to cut boost when in reverse, neutral, or rev limited. It would connect to the boost bypass solenoid, which can switch the lower port from being open to being connected after the supercharger. With the boost bypass solenoid enabled, the actuator always see more vacuum on the top port than on the bottom port and won't close the valve. When driving normally the valve vents the bottom port.
On almost every Fiero swap, the bypass valve is removed and the lower port is left open. Often this is because the swap is a manual, and the computer can't tell if you are in revers or neutral and never uses the bypass valve.
I'm going to watch your video a few more times and try and figure out whats going on.
Thanks for the continued help. I wish I knew more about what needs to go where. Studying what I can find for this engine, has so many differences from the stock setup, as compared to being dropped into a Fiero.
I have no vacuum canister installed in the engine bay, as I was told some time ago, that I did not need it. It seems like I am pretty close to getting this thing dialed in, it is just the few remaining things.
In the mean time, I drove to Miami and had my PKE alarm installed. I had the feature in a rental car last year, and fell in love with it! When I get about 15 feet from the Fiero, it unlocks. I hop in, tap a button and start the engine. When I get out, and walk 15 or so feet away, it locks itself.
I still have a key for the door on my key ring as a backup. If I completely lose my keys, there is also a keypad affixed to the top left of the window, behind the factory tint at the top of the windshield. This makes it hard to see from the outside. I wanted it this way, instead of the bottom left corner of the windshield, as see this ugly keypad in the window. I can tap in a 6 digit code through the glass, and it will unlock the doors, as well as allow you to drive it. If you get the code wrong 3 times, it will lock down the keypad for one hour. It seems like the covered all the bases in case something goes wrong.
I've been wanting to do something like this, likewise after driving a rental car with it! Very cool! How does it work with the original key and steering lock? Do you have to remove it? Or leave the key in? Also what about the various settings like turning the key back for the radio or acc positions? I wasn't sure how to get around those hurdles so I haven't tried it yet. Very glad to see someone else has done it!
If this message is a perfect, forgive me as I'm doing it from my mobile with text-to-speech. Typing on the Forum from message this big is too much of a pain in the you-know-what.
As for the ignition key, all you need to do is disable the steering wheel lock as well as the lock for the shifter in the center. And you would never need a key again. I decided to leave the key in the ignition, as I want the ability to lock the steering in the future if need be for some reason.
As for accessory and turning the car on, that's pretty easy. With your foot off the brake you tap the start button once to go into AC mode. Tap it twice, and it turns the key to the on position. Putting your foot on the brake and tapping the button physically starts the car.
They seem to have thought of everything. As far as getting locked out of the car, you have two choices. You can take your door key, and simply leave it on your key ring. in my particular keyfob, there's a space to put it inside the key fob. The second option that my alarm came with is a keypad that is stuck to the upper left corner of the window behind the factory tint. You can actually type of code from outside of the car through the glass, to open the doors and be able to start and drive the car away with no keys whatsoever on your in your pocket
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 06-16-2019).]
That looks good there, and it lights up blue! Did you do that or did it just happen to be blue?
So Jason, you noticed that; Crazy enough, it came that way. I do have power mirrors on the car, but honestly just don't need them. I am the only one that drives the car, so once they are adjusted that's it. Therefore, that seemed like the perfect place for the start switch to me.
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 01-18-2018).]
Ok, I have been getting a lot of questions on Facebook messenger, and a couple PM's on here. I decided to put all of the info in a single post to try to answer all the questions.
The alarm is made by Easyguard. The model number is EC002-T2-NS. I paid $149.99 On Amazon. HERE IS THE PRODUCT PAGE.
Here is a video explaining how it works, and some of the features:
What does the other vac line go to? Should go from the MAP to the LIM to the FPR (if you have one?) and then from that to the BBV. Do you have a pic of the vacuum line routing?
What does the other vac line go to? Should go from the MAP to the LIM to the FPR (if you have one?) and then from that to the BBV. Do you have a pic of the vacuum line routing?
When you say the "other vacuum line", I do not know which one you mean. There are 6 lines in the above 2 pictures, and are labeled where each of them go to. What "other" one are you referring to?
When you say the "other vacuum line", I do not know which one you mean. There are 6 lines in the above 2 pictures, and are labeled where each of them go to. What "other" one are you referring to?
yeah I see the pic above. Doesn't show where they actually go though.
You are on a stock tune right? Stock injectors?
Something is still off. Unless i'm in front of the car (or back of it lol) looking at the motor I'm not sure what else to do.
Originally posted by olejoedad: One side of the boost bypass should be hooked up the the nipple on the LIM. Google 3800 SC vacuum diagram and look at the image section. There are several images that will show the proper routing. The LIM nipple should be connected to the MAP, FPR and BBV
The only decent vacuum line routing diagram for the 3800SC I have found is totally different than you described. The Super Charger nipple ONLY goes to the MAP sensor. The others you mentioned go to the tree on the top, close to the throttle body end, or the TB itself.
quote
Originally posted by Buck531: yeah I see the pic above. Doesn't show where they actually go though. You are on a stock tune right? Stock injectors?
That is why I put the numbers, and the description below the images to explain where they go.
Yes, it is a stock tune, done specifically for this engine, Throttle Body, for my Fiero. Ryan did the tune based on the tons of information I provided to him.
I am off to drive the Fiero to a 5 hour class at the Palm Beach County Board of Elections in prep for our next local election. It's 38 degrees this morning, and curious to see how she runs in the cold.
Originally posted by olejoedad: The LIM nipple should be connected to the MAP, FPR and BBV
He doesn't have a boost bypass valve, on the boost bypass actuator
John I see where some confusion is coming from, that diagram is for a pre 98 supercharger. That port on the side is after the supercharger. They removed it on later superchargers, so its only equivalent on your engine is the port in the LIM under the snout.
He doesn't have a boost bypass valve, on the boost bypass actuator
John I see where some confusion is coming from, that diagram is for a pre 98 supercharger. That port on the side is after the supercharger. They removed it on later superchargers, so its only equivalent on your engine is the port in the LIM under the snout.
This is the one to follow:
Thanks for posting the correct picture.
If he doesn't have the solenoid, he should remove the actuator and mechanically immobilize the lever.
[This message has been edited by olejoedad (edited 01-19-2018).]
Originally posted by olejoedad: If he doesn't have the solenoid, he should remove the actuator and mechanically immobilize the lever.
Sorry, but no he shouldn't. Removing the actuator means that there is always load on the supercharger. I recommend that you read Darth Fiero's description here. The short version is that the solenoid is only used in the certain cases that I listed in my post above. With just a vacuum line it will work properly and cause the supercharger to only be used at full throttle, significantly improving supercharger life, intake air temps and fuel efficiency.
