So come Monday I will be purchasing an 86 SE with sbc 350 swap for $2000. I have 3 Fieros already and always wanted to do a v8 swap. currently I'm in Washington state for the summer for work, but didn't bring any of my Fieros. So my plan is to buy this one, use it and work on it for the summer and then take it home, take some of the good parts off, and trade engines with one of my other cars and then sell it. Its current condition is on the rough side, but has some good perks like Corvette brakes in front, coil overs in back, 3 core aluminum radiator, new stage 3 clutch, aftermarket rims with brand new tires. The body is complete with no damage and paint is actually not that bad for the age. No rust under the trunk carpet. Interior is pretty typical of a used Fiero, but has 85 seats which I see as a plus because I always thought the seat speakers were cool. The worst part is that the engine overheated and there is water in the oil so I will have to do some rebuilding. Also the engine mounts are pretty jenky.
If I get the engine fixed up now and since I plan to put the engine in one of my other cars I can replace the mounts at that time as well as use some of the other good parts, so I figure its still worth it, especially if I can just stick a duke in it and then sell the car still complete for real cheap.
Anyone think this is a terrible idea? If so convince me now so I can back out before Monday haha
[This message has been edited by liv4God (edited 07-12-2017).]
If you have the skills to rebuild the SBC and do the swap yourself then it's probably an okay deal. If you have to pay someone else to do it you will take a bath.
If you have the skills to rebuild the SBC and do the swap yourself then it's probably an okay deal. If you have to pay someone else to do it you will take a bath.
I will definitely do it myself. For me that's one of the best parts
The oil was sludgy. I'm not sure if it was from the overheating causing damage or an unplugged sensor hole. The guy fired it up and I noticed oil spewing out of a hole in one of the heads. Either way, its going to need some work, but did fire up fine and sounded nice.
So you don't have any concerns about getting it smogged and registered in California with a SBC?
As strange as it sounds, I live in a no smog zone, so I only have to smog when I transfer title of a car, or register an unregistered car. One of the reasons I would swap this into one of my already registered cars instead of just fix this one up better.
The purchase sounds like a ton of work will lie ahead but for $2000 you will get some value in the V8 conversion/swap parts. I would recommend going to a MPFI system for improved gas mileage, smoother performance and cleaner emissions. This might prove useful if you use the car to commute.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Uh oh... I know this car. I wish I had seen this thread earlier. How thoroughly did you check it out? The car is dangerous! The passenger side rear frame is basically non-existent.
I'll try to find the old thread I posted up about this car.
I had a chance to buy this car for next to nothing four years ago, and at that time the engine actually had no issues. As much as I've always wanted a V8 Fiero... I ran, and never looked back.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 07-11-2017).]
The purchase sounds like a ton of work will lie ahead but for $2000 you will get some value in the V8 conversion/swap parts. I would recommend going to a MPFI system for improved gas mileage, smoother performance and cleaner emissions. This might prove useful if you use the car to commute.
I like the sound of that, especially improved had mileage Any suggestions on where to go about finding the MPFI parts?
Thanks for the info Patrick, definitely good to know! I did notice the hacked up frame, but not the rusty upper game rail. I'm not terribly concerned because my main purpose for getting this is to use the good parts for my other cars. I figured I could sell it after, but if I just scrap it I think I'll still get my money worth.
[This message has been edited by liv4God (edited 07-11-2017).]
...my main purpose for getting this is to use the good parts for my other cars.
I hope for your sake that there is actually $2000 worth of good parts on that car.
Even the SBC swap parts are iffy as it's completely "home brew". The adapter plate is relatively thin steel that someone has cut out. Definitely not an Archie or Zumalt supplied part.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 07-11-2017).]
I just noticed the plates are the same as when I looked at this car more than four years ago. The tags here are 2013.
I'm wondering if the car has actually even been driven since I last saw it. With that heavy cast iron SBC installed in a car with no rear structural integrity, it really shouldn't have been. What year are the current tags?
I just noticed the plates are the same as when I looked at this car more than four years ago. The tags here are 2013.
I'm wondering if the car has actually even been driven since I last saw it. With that heavy cast iron SBC installed in a car with no rear structural integrity, it really shouldn't have been. What year are the current tags?
The tags are October 2016. The guy I got it from said he drove it until then. I believe its changed hands 2-3 times since you saw it. Do you remember the mileage it had back then?
On the plus side, since then and now it looks like someone took out the rusted area and welded in new metal. And the adapter plate has been replaced with a thicker one. Not sure where it came from. See the picture below.
On the plus side, since then and now it looks like someone took out the rusted area and welded in new metal.
That's good to hear, but keep in mind the structural integrity issue wasn't just the rusted out upper frame rail... it was also all the solid metal that was butchered from the passenger side rear strut area to accommodate the front of the SBC.
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Originally posted by liv4God:
And the adapter plate has been replaced with a thicker one. Not sure where it came from.
Okay, that's a major improvement. I wonder if proper engine mounts were also installed? When I looked at it, the oil pan was sitting on make-shift mickey-mouse engine mounts.
I've actually crossed paths with this car twice. The first time was when it was still in BC, and the second time when it unfortunately was sold to an elderly friend of mine in Bellingham who had no idea what he had gotten himself into.
Since then that Fiero has been offered for sale numerous times down there. Anyone in BC or Washington State who has closely followed the Fiero market has been aware of that car.
I'll see if I can find the mileage mentioned in any of my correspondence about this car from years ago.
I'll see if I can find the mileage mentioned in any of my correspondence about this car from years ago.
I finally found what I was looking for... When the car was sold to my friend from Bellingham in June 2012, it had 140,000 km. Yes, being a Canadian car, the mileage is in kilometers.
I finally found what I was looking for... When the car was sold to my friend from Bellingham in June 2012, it had 140,000 km. Yes, being a Canadian car, the mileage is in kilometers.
What's the odometer reading now?
It's over 150k now, so not a ton of driving, but definitely has been driven. Also still is in Bellingham. I bought it from a young fella, well probably about my age As for the front engine mount, as someone said it in your previous thread, it looks like it's trying to get snuggly with the oil pan.
With the funky oil line routing in the 2013 photo due to starter clearance with one line into the side of the block, it appears the cold (thick) oil bypass in the block may be bypassed. The path fittings also introduce sharp edges to shear and foam the oil before it reaches the crank. Get an oil filter adapter that swivels and bolts on rather than spins on, with 90 degree outlets rather than elbows. Use push loc hose and fittings. I can look up the specific parts if you'd like.
I'd pull the top end to look for cracks and change the gaskets, check the valve train wear while the covers are off (shame to drop a valve half way home), run flush through the oil system as directed, change the oil again, then change the oil filter every hundred miles for the next 300 while monitoring op for a sudden drop from residual sludge clogging the filter.
It would be interesting to see the flywheel design. It appears to be the earlier internal balance two piece rear main sbc rather than the 86 and newer designs. If so a standard fiero flwyheel could be used but the black adapter is so thin, I'm not sure how it could be done and still be long term reliable. Not that familiar with the zumalt style but I recall there being counter sunk fasteners holding the flywheel on? Hopefully this has a custom flywheel rather than a crank adapter.
Love to see the engine lower mount. I originally put a torque link behind the engine with my swap too, but it was in the wrong place to be effective. I cured the issue with two dodge mounts spaced as far apart as possible under the crank, lengthening the mount shelf on the cradle. You might be able to do something similar with the sbc. I made a dog bone mount around the valve cover but I don't think I need it at all.
Get rid of that 'air filter', and I use the words loosely. Its a fire trap. Ive seen those catch on fire if the carb backfired. I had one on my V8 car originally and luckily it caught fire in the garage where I had extinguishers handy...no damage. I modified a Jeep Cherokee v8 filter slightly to fit. Its not easy to find an air cleaner to fit under the Fiero hood which is why some people use those.
Getting "snuggly" is one thing. I was more concerned with penetration occurring.
Good luck with the project. Hopefully you'll be able to make use of the car and/or it's components. Give us an update down the road!
Looks like it hasn't made any penetration Yet... I hope it all works out too, started tearing the engine down today after work.
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With the funky oil line routing in the 2013 photo due to starter clearance with one line into the side of the block, it appears the cold (thick) oil bypass in the block may be bypassed. The path fittings also introduce sharp edges to shear and foam the oil before it reaches the crank. Get an oil filter adapter that swivels and bolts on rather than spins on, with 90 degree outlets rather than elbows. Use push loc hose and fittings. I can look up the specific parts if you'd like.
If you wouldn't mind, that would be great if you could look up the specific parts. And thanks for all the advice, I'll take as much as I can get! While I'm good with engines and know Fieros well, this is my first time dealing with a SBC, so I don't know all the ins and outs.
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Get rid of that 'air filter', and I use the words loosely. Its a fire trap. Ive seen those catch on fire if the carb backfired. I had one on my V8 car originally and luckily it caught fire in the garage where I had extinguishers handy...no damage. I modified a Jeep Cherokee v8 filter slightly to fit. Its not easy to find an air cleaner to fit under the Fiero hood which is why some people use those.
Was planning on it just because I don't like the look, but now I'll really have to! Thanks for letting me know!
Love to see the engine lower mount. I originally put a torque link behind the engine with my swap too, but it was in the wrong place to be effective. I cured the issue with two dodge mounts spaced as far apart as possible under the crank, lengthening the mount shelf on the cradle. You might be able to do something similar with the sbc. I made a dog bone mount around the valve cover but I don't think I need it at all.
Not the best picture, but here's what it looks like at the mounting point where it is touching the pan. Not visible in the picture, to the top right it goes up further and has two more bolts into the block.
Yes, there certainly are some questionable modifications to this Fiero.
How's this for an engine mount. Although the mount does appear to be bolted to one side of the block, it also appears to be "snuggling" against the bottom of the oil pan.
It's really amazing that someone would do that... and then call it a day. I wouldn't be able to sleep!
Also found this battery relocation wiring comforting...
I guess it crossed their mind because they bent the metal to remove the sharp edge and put electric tape, but still, a $4 firewall bushing can't be asking too much can it? lol Edit to add: 2 of those are the positive cables
[This message has been edited by liv4God (edited 07-13-2017).]
I did this without removing the cradle (crap overhead welding) and never intended to post it but maybe it will give you some ideas. These are 80s dodge truck engine mounts. You could fit a thinner mount in place of the fiero mount to have a gusseted bracket without hitting the pan.
Also a pic of my battery box.
And the dogbone mount.
[This message has been edited by fiero4.3L (edited 07-13-2017).]
I thought the bypass might be bypassed when running the line into the side of the block, but it does not. Also, guru has routed the lines this way a few times so how bad can it be?
fiero4.3L thanks for all the info, links and pictures! This will be really helpful for me once I stat rebuilding it. Since I'm not at home I don't have all my tools and need to pick up a few that I will need for this tomorrow. Hopefully I'll get the heads off tomorrow and find where the water is leaking in.
Hopefully I'll get the heads off tomorrow and find where the water is leaking in.
Just a suggestion... I think the intake manifold was swapped at some point with the one in the trunk (in my last picture). If you're lucky, real lucky, it might just be an improperly positioned (or torn) intake manifold gasket that's allowing coolant to enter the crankcase. You just never know!
Small update: Got the engine torn down to the block and have it ready to pull out of the cradle, just need to rent an engine hoist. Then I can see how the internals are, replace bearings and what ever else needs it. The engine was running like garbage for a long time (based off the condition of the heads) and so I have the heads in a shop to be fixed up as well as checked for cracks. There were no visible cracks and I'm pretty sure it was a gasket, but I want to make sure. On a side note, its actually a 305 :| Would have preferred the 350, but it didn't even cross my mind since the guy said it was a 350. Then once I got the heads off it was a 305. I'm remaking the wiring harness which will include things like um, maybe a fan switch, temp sender, oil pressure sender. Just a few minor details the original swapper forgot? On that note, I've got a few questions: 1. Where are the oil pressure sender wires supposed to go from the sender? Since I don't have my other Fieros I have nothing to look at and haven't found a useful diagram for the oil pressure sender. I've got almost all the other wires all figured out, just not those. 2. The other wire I haven't figured out is A2 on the harness that hooks in next to the battery area. Documentation says it should be a black ground wire, but I've got a bright green wire there cut about 6 inches long. No idea where its supposed to go. 3. I'm planning to convert to an electric water pump, when wiring that up does it just run full power the whole time or is it better to vary the pump speed based on engine rpm?
Thanks in advance!
[This message has been edited by liv4God (edited 07-25-2017).]
On a side note, its actually a 305 :| Would have preferred the 350, but it didn't even cross my mind since the guy said it was a 350. Then once I got the heads off it was a 305.
Geez man, didn't you read the posts/threads that I supplied links to?
Geez man, didn't you read the posts/threads that I supplied links to?
I just breezed through it mostly looking at the pictures. Just clicked the link and never bothered to read the title. Oh well, doesn't really change anything as I already owned the car when you posted the link to the thread.
[This message has been edited by liv4God (edited 07-27-2017).]
Ordered various parts for replacement or upgrade, while waiting for them to arrive I decided to try my hand at vinyl wrapping. Put carbon fiber vinyl wrap on the hood.
It was hard to get perfect especially on a hood with preexisting imperfections, but I guess it turned out alright.
Also got a nice bar and some turn buckles to use as a torque rod. The one on the bottom is my new one
I'm hoping to order a front engine mount from Archie, anyone know how to reach him quickly? I was going to get the torque rod from him and emailed him, but by the time he replied a few weeks later I had already gotten this one. I emailed him about the engine mount just the other day and haven't heard back yet.
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