I'm really trying to bite my tongue here and not come unglued at the DOT idiots on here. The DOT standard is "providing adequate illumination of the roadway, and by enhancing the conspicuity of motor vehicles on the public roads so that their presence is perceived and their signals understood, both in daylight and in darkness or other conditions of reduced visibility" In other words, make lenses that are clear so all lights within them can be seen and understood. Seems to me thats a given here with your new lenses.
I live in the most pathetic, scrutinizing state when it comes to vehicles and I have never seen or heard of anyone being pulled over for non-DOT lenses. No one gives a damn as long as the light that is emitted is not warped or going in different directions.
From a business point of view, there is no need for the added expense of flushing the tool/press for what is considered a small run when tinting can be done other more frugal ways. ------------------ Goody
The beauty of a solution lies in its simplicity
[This message has been edited by kgoodyear (edited 01-26-2018).]
I'm really trying to bite my tongue here and not come unglued at the DOT idiots on here. The DOT standard is "providing adequate illumination of the roadway, and by enhancing the conspicuity of motor vehicles on the public roads so that their presence is perceived and their signals understood, both in daylight and in darkness or other conditions of reduced visibility" In other words, make lenses that are clear so all lights within them can be seen and understood. Seems to me thats a given here with your new lenses.
I live in the most pathetic, scrutinizing state when it comes to vehicles and I have never seen or heard of anyone being pulled over for non-DOT lenses. No one gives a damn as long as the light that is emitted is not warped or going in different directions.
FMVSS 108 is a little more involved than "that looks about right". You need photometric measurements at different angles... it would be advised for a non-expert to deal with an experienced testing lab that will hand you what you need on a silver platter.
If the original Pontiac taillights passed compliance testing (before production of the faskback Fiero), since these lenses are virtually identical, they too should pass compliance testing with flying colors.
But, OP would be hard-pressed to claim DOT compliance without having the test reports to prove it, in case he is ever challenged. Therefore, without the test reports to cover his butt, OP should leave the lenses blank.
But, OP would be hard-pressed to claim DOT compliance without having the test reports to prove it, in case he is ever challenged. Therefore, without the test reports to cover his butt, OP should leave the lenses blank.
Or claim they are for "off road use only" as noted before and let the purchaser decide if they are a big boy or not.
If a seller was claiming "DOT aproved" and it wasn't, these lectures wouldn't be as annoying but since the claim is being made they are for "off road use", he's provided all the info he needed to and if you don't like it(I haven't seen much indication of this yet), you should probably avoid the product instead of assuming the entire forum is too stupid to understand the implications of "off road use".
[This message has been edited by jmbishop (edited 01-26-2018).]
A lighting manufacturer can choose to tint their lamps, have them tested, and if they meet DOT requirements, then they can claim DOT compliance, with the tint.
The problem arises when an end-user modifies DOT-compliant lamps (such as with tint), but does not get the lamps re-tested. The lamps were tested one way, but you're driving around with the lamps in another configuration. That's the problem, not the tint itself.
Because they are not. Look into it.
Just because a drunk gets behind the wheel of a car and never gets caught or in a wreck doesn't mean it's legal.
From a business point of view, there is no need for the added expense of flushing the tool/press for what is considered a small run when tinting can be done other more frugal ways.
Makes sense...keep price down for us frugal fiero owners... Anticipating setting progress these
a page and a half, and no Ogre speeches about DOT compliance
For the few that have posted about them not being DOT approved, you can watch the rest of them put them on our cars I am an adult. I am aware of safety concerns. If these lenses are a replica of the originals (AKA clear lenses) then I have no problem putting them on my car. If someone does not like them, because they aren't DOT approved, do not buy them, and head to eBay and watch for an OEM set.
I personally think that the DOT thing has been beat to DEATH in this thread, as well as many other threads. It has been said, everyone has read it, let it go......
I personally think that the DOT thing has been beat to DEATH in this thread, as well as many other threads. It has been said, everyone has read it, let it go......
Here's my last thought on this matter. Since the Fiero Store sold the reproductions from the originals, the DOT legal print was in the mold so when they were formed, the DOT logo was imprinted as raised text. If the Fiero Store vendor used a different material than GM, technically if people want to nitpick, the DOT stamp is invalid and everyone who bought their repros are driving illegally and needs to remove them from their vehicle. Kind of a bootleg logo like the China companies that sell on Ebay. Just a thought.
I could care less about legal or not. These are needed and Goody is doing a great service by providing whatever color he makes. Thank you for doing this Goody.
[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 01-27-2018).]
Originally posted by IMSA GT: These are needed and Goody is doing a great service by providing whatever color he makes. Thank you for doing this Goody.
Regarding GT lenses I see both sides of the DOT questioning/arguments...
If you don't like the idea of them not being DOT-compliant, then it's your choice to not buy and install them. The exact same goes for the other crowd (which I'm a part of).
I get that they won't be compliant, but the only time I would find this a problem in a lens that was designed to be a direct replacement for something that a)nobody produces in volume, and b)is in somewhat of a demand, even for a niche audience, is if a cop decides to pull one over for the very faint tint that is on the factory lenses (because they believe it wasn't tinted from the factory), and the replacement happens to not be DOT-certified. Otherwise I don't think the majority of the police force would be concerned if the car didn't have a slew of other external modifications... and here in Tucson that includes all sorts of vehicles, domestic & import, car & truck - a lot of it is the 'trophy' trucks with big shiny wheels/no mudflaps, and retrofit HIDs galore (flash my brights at every last one of them... I can't stand an improper retrofit).
That being said, I had one night several years back my passenger headlight was stuck down. The cop was a bit younger (probably in his 20s) and genuinely just wanted to check the car out since he'd never seen a Fiero up close (it still happens on very rare occasions and it generally moves a little slower than the driver's side). I wasn't in a hurry so it wasn't a big deal though, thanked him for keeping watch over the town & moved on.
Now that my random ranting/discussing is done, I'm glad you're working on these, and I was thinking the same thing about that rib. Do you have a set of mint GT lenses to test for any sort of light transmission? I'll wager you could tint them to that extent without worry. Personally I'd be concerned about someplace trying to tint them the traditional way, messing up the application and ruining my $350+ investment, on top of the unknown life of said tint job. If they're tinted within the mold I'm sure it would hold up much better than a tint job after the fact.
This makes me want to find a set with bad lenses and attempt an LED project
Regarding GT sail windows I'm part of the I-need-a-set crew. Passenger side was missing, and driver side was severely cracked when I bought the car. When you mention scoops, what exactly do you mean? I had seen a set of OE-looking windows molded with scoops in the past that I thought looked very cool - and I'm guessing would help evacuate hot air from the vents - but I believe they were discontinued.
In NY and I am sure in many other states to come that have annual motor vehicle safety inspections, a vehicle with any non-OEM tint at all will not pass inspection. This goes for headlamps, tail lamps and windows.
The places that once offered a tinting service have switched their business' over to a tint removal service.
[This message has been edited by Thunderstruck GT (edited 01-28-2018).]
.... and I was thinking the same thing about that rib. Do you have a set of mint GT lenses to test for any sort of light transmission? I'll wager you could tint them to that extent without worry. Personally I'd be concerned about someplace trying to tint them the traditional way, messing up the application and ruining my $350+ investment, on top of the unknown life of said tint job. If they're tinted within the mold I'm sure it would hold up much better than a tint job after the fact.
This makes me want to find a set with bad lenses and attempt an LED project
I'm part of the I-need-a-set crew. Passenger side was missing, and driver side was severely cracked when I bought the car. When you mention scoops, what exactly do you mean? I had seen a set of OE-looking windows molded with scoops in the past that I thought looked very cool - and I'm guessing would help evacuate hot air from the vents - but I believe they were discontinued.
First, the feedback here is fantastic. Thank you all!!!
As much as I would like to make some tinted lenses, as a business decision, it wouldn't be practical to flush the press and the tool to shoot what would be considered a small quantity. If I did, would Frugal Fiero Fans snap them up in a timely manner? It would be better to plow that money to back into the seed money and revisit this on another batch run. How does that sound?
I have seen an impressive LED system out there and it is pretty cool.
I've got another thread going on the sail windows since it would be another project but I'll go ahead and address it here in the hopes I can encourage you to use that other thread for the sail window issue.
I love my wing scoops. I'm not sure how effective they are but they look cool. I was lucky to find these on ebay. I've not seen them for sale anywhere. That is a dead give away to a lack of sales and thus makes it spooky to make a tool to make the scoop--then, if we made the scoop why not the sails. Again, this is something I would LOVE to visit once I get my seed money back.
------------------ Goody
The beauty of a solution lies in its simplicity
[This message has been edited by kgoodyear (edited 01-28-2018).]
I just want to be clear here. I am not trying to be one of the DOT police.
All I am saying is if you want to attract attention to law enforcement, tint your tail lamps.
That's right up there with a thief committing a crime while wearing a fluorescent green shirt, a hat with a strobe light flashing and carrying a "look at me" sign.
Not to mention that it is also a good way to get hit in the azz.
[This message has been edited by Thunderstruck GT (edited 01-28-2018).]
Ah yes.... It is obvious that my haters (aka: tint lovers) have come to attack my rating.
That is one thing I'll always like about this place and the main reason why I and so many others do not post or voice their opposition on a topic. It is because the "hater police" gang up to put the opposition to their way of thinking into the red zone.
Ah yes.... It is obvious that my haters (aka: tint lovers) have come to attack my rating.
That is one thing I'll always like about this place and the main reason why I and so many others do not post or voice their opposition on a topic. It is because the "hater police" gang up to put the opposition to their way of thinking into the red zone.
Carry on.
Thats ok, I gained a negative rating for voicing my opinion in this thread. I guess people don't like the "DOT idiot" comment And you are correct with the tint issue. It is easier to get away with non-dot clear lenses. With tinted lenses here in California, you get pulled over before you make it out of your driveway.
[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 01-28-2018).]
Honestly, VHT Niteshades is one of the top manufacturers of tint spray for the lenses. The proper way to spray the tint is from the inside of the lens. Then the lens itself gives the tint the glossy appearance otherwise if you spray from the outside, you are left with a dull finish but most people do not want to disassemble their factory lights to apply it the proper way. Since you are providing new lenses that are not mounted, it would be a piece of cake for the buyer to spray their own lenses and have a perfect looking, custom tint of whatever darkness they desire. I would just stick to manufacturing the clear lenses.
[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 01-28-2018).]
Thats ok, I gained a negative rating for voicing my opinion in this thread. I guess people don't like the "DOT idiot" comment And you are correct with the tint issue. It is easier to get away with non-dot clear lenses. With tinted lenses here in California, you get pulled over before you make it out of your driveway.
Yes, I have found that snowflakes melt rather easily when stepped on. I was knocked off the island once when I said Northstars are junk. They are and life goes on.
Like with most projects there are some snags along the way. The one snag that blindsided us was the company we were going to use to build the mold didn't think we were serious when we first approached them. They returned with a quote of over $150,000. This is above my budget.
Now, with that said, over this past week I sent out over 250 (RAQ) request a quote through email and website requests. We have gotten some positive feedback but without going into detail, there are some restrictions on who can do a mold this size. Next week we should be receiving more esponses on my RAQ. There are 581 plastics companies. I'm about half way through and bug eyed.
My intention was to release information to my Frugal Fiero Friends AFTER we had a vendor in our pocket so we have kind of jumped the gun here. Beyond this I would prefer not to release information before we have things buttoned down--we don't have that yet.
One of the things we have noticed is with a little schmoozing, word play, and letting them know it is for the Fiero gets their attention. It seems every one has had a Fiero in high school or their brother or friend had one. I'f had a handful of vendors that have taken the project to heart but saddly can only offer their referrals.
I would like to say in probably 10 days we will either have a vendor or a budget buster. Let's hang loose until I have a vendor in my pocket and then I will pass along that information.
Like with most projects there are some snags along the way. The one snag that blindsided us was the company we were going to use to build the mold didn't think we were serious when we first approached them. They returned with a quote of over $150,000. This is above my budget.
150k is probably about right for two molds of this size and complexity, assuming they quoted you a steel tool. I doubt anybody will quote you a aluminum tool because it's a clear lense and the tool would never hold up. I wish you luck finding a more affordable supplier, sadly I doubt you will while keeping the quality you are looking for.
Thanks for your feedback. My concentration is fully on the project and I do not want to put information out there that may be inaccurate, incomplete or unsubstantiated .
Let's set this thread aside for 10 or 14 days please.
------------------ Goody
The beauty of a solution lies in its simplicity
[This message has been edited by kgoodyear (edited 03-04-2018).]
I have a new set from TFS, but would be nice to get a set of these, and be able to relax a little bit instead of worrying EVERY time I park my car out somewhere about something happening to them!
I have a new set from TFS, but would be nice to get a set of these, and be able to relax a little bit instead of worrying EVERY time I park my car out somewhere about something happening to them!
I can relate. Originally my lenses were just delaminated but then in the process of removing by deck lid I barely hit it and POW there was a big hole in it. I didn't worry about it much because I have a donor car in my back yard. WRONG! they were in worse shape. THEN I got on EBAY and saw what OEM were going for and thought it is time to take my shot at having them made. It has been an interesting project.
I just wanted to say how impressed I am with all of the dialogue on this thread! While we're currently in Blue Demon touch-up and Indy restore mode, at some point down the line I may need a set of these!!
For the few that have posted about them not being DOT approved, you can watch the rest of them put them on our cars I am an adult. I am aware of safety concerns. If these lenses are a replica of the originals (AKA clear lenses) then I have no problem putting them on my car. If someone does not like them, because they aren't DOT approved, do not buy them, and head to eBay and watch for an OEM set.
I personally think that the DOT thing has been beat to DEATH in this thread, as well as many other threads. It has been said, everyone has read it, let it go......
This.
If the DOT is a issue with you – I will sell my spare OEM set for a $1000, buy these for spares and pocket the rest.
I am an adult. I am aware of safety concerns. If these lenses are a replica of the originals (AKA clear lenses) then I have no problem putting them on my car. If someone does not like them, because they aren't DOT approved, do not buy them, and head to eBay and watch for an OEM set.
