Not sure there is a "Best" thread, however there are a lot of them. You can get different and more detailed information from each of them.
I did do my best to document my swap, with as much information and photos as possible. I am sure there are areas of my swap that is missing information as well.
EDIT: I had no idea some of the photos were coming up in my thread in red X's. (There was a long period of time where PIP just REFUSED to work). I spent a few hours the other night finding broken images, then digging out photos to replace them in the posts. All seems to be in order now. Sorry if anyone followed the above link to a bunch of image less posts.
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 05-27-2018).]
Best is highly subjective and is really dependent on your goals, skills and budget. You are better off reviewing as many build threads until you find one that appeals to you.
If you are unsure about how to do a 3800 swap, read all the posts in the construction section. If there are specific questions the folks on this forum usually have the answers.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
There is also a YouTube video series that goes over swap as well. I believe the guys YouTube name is “lostnotforgotten” or something like that....not the most exciting of videos but it does go over a large chunk of information.
Reading about the 3800 Series III SC engine, Wikipedia says that it was only put into the 2004 thru 2007 Pontiac Grand Prix GT and GTP. Does anybody know if this is right?
------------------ I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun!
i think that the headline says it all. i have an '84 and am considering a 3800 swap. What do i need to know? thanks jon
The Midwest Fiero Club also ran a two part series in their club news letter on doing a 3800 engine swap and it as well as the referenced publications/materials are worth reading IMO. This info was in the most recent two Fiero Focus publications (March/April and May/June issues 164 and 165).
Originally posted by hnthomps: The Midwest Fiero Club also ran a two part series in their club news letter on doing a 3800 engine swap and it as well as the referenced publications/materials are worth reading IMO. This info was in the most recent two Fiero Focus publications (March/April and May/June issues 164 and 165). Nelson
Thot i'd post pics of my car - an '84 with a mix of original body parts, modified body parts, and GT parts. If anybody has a line on some Aero moldings for the bottom of the door, let me know The battery is in the front, rear vent is a scoop from a Mustang - i removed the BBQ grill. i made the front radiator vent out of fibreglass to match the rear vent.
i substituted the 85-88 side vents for the closed panels on the '84
i'm thinking of building a custom intake for the engine to match (?) the vents.
jon
------------------ I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun! 3800 SC swap to come!
As i look for a 3800sc car, i find most have about 200,000kms = 124,000 miles. Is this too much to expect a good running motor? jon
------------------ I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun! 3800 SC swap to come!
As i look for a 3800sc car, i find most have about 200,000kms = 124,000 miles. Is this too much to expect a good running motor? jon
Much lower mileage ones can be found if you are patient and search diligently. That statement is true for the US but I am obviously not familiar with the Canadian market. However, I acquired a Series III SC engine with less than 14,000 miles and a Series II SC engine with less than 40,000 miles. They might cost a bit more but it is worth it in my opinion.
These are pretty durable engines and it is best to acquire them from a running vehicle if possible. That way you can do an in car, engine running analysis prior to purchasing. I have heard reports that the engines are good for about 150,000 miles but have absolutely no data to back that up.
------------------ I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun! 3800 SC swap to come!
The build thread that inspired those articles can be seen in my signature. Look it over and feel free to ask any questions you may have. Glad the articles have been helpful to some.
I was the first to reply to this thread, with a link to my build thread. I had no idea SO MANY of the photos were coming up in my thread in red X's / broken images. (There was a long period of time where PIP just REFUSED to work). I spent a few hours the other night finding replacements for all of the broken images, and replacing them in each of the posts. A tedious task to say the least....
All seems to be in order now. My sincere apologies for anyone that followed the above link to a bunch of image less posts. The 3800 swap starts on PAGE 13 OF MY BUILD THREAD.
I spent a few hours the other night finding replacements for all of the broken images, and replacing them in each of the posts. A tedious task to say the least....
All seems to be in order now. My sincere apologies for anyone that followed the above link to a bunch of image less posts. The 3800 swap starts on PAGE 13 OF MY BUILD THREAD.
Thanks John, i certainly appreciate the effort that you took to fix those links. i use post image. Dunno how it will fare after a few years, altho i choose permanent when i post a pic. i picked up some parts for my Fiero when i was in Toronto recently. i have some parts that i planned to use for a 4.9 swap that i never started. i am still in the planning stages of my swap because i vacillate back and forth because my duke is running so good, altho she uses oil and smokes. Everyday i look for a parts car that i can buy. There was a nice one in Barrie, decent milage and negociable (think low ball offer) but how do you drive home 6 hours in the rain with no brakes? Don't wanna fix the brakes just for one trip! Blessings jon
edit: your paint job on your motor is really fantastic!
------------------ I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun! 3800 SC swap to come!
[This message has been edited by longjonsilver (edited 06-04-2018).]
Does anybody know the color code for the paint on the intake manifold and valve covers on the 2.8 V6? i would love to paint my valve covers and supercharger that exact color.
------------------ I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun! 3800 SC swap to come!
I did a quick search (use google and anything you want to know with the word "fiero" added in) and it seems that "Chrysler Industrial Red from Duplicolor" is the closest match that many have found. Maybe someone else has the exact information you need but I figured I would at least provide you with an option.(HTH)
Does anybody know what this is on this 86(?) GT? Do i need this for my 3800sc swap?
jon
------------------ I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun! 3800 SC swap to come!
That's just a blower to keep the alternator cool they put on the v6 cars. Most people just junk them since they really don't serve much of a purpose to begin with and for a swap just adds dead weight.
While i am waiting to find a donor car for my 3800sc swap, i am upgrading things that i have wanted in my car for quite some time. i picked these up cheap from a local scrap yard. The edges of the console are curling up (small but noticeable) so i plan on digging out the foam from the edge and gluing with goop automotive cement, like i have done elsewhere on my car.
i also plan on removing my rocker panels and installing these aero trim pieces that i picked up here and there cheap $25C
------------------ I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun! 3800 SC swap to come!
[This message has been edited by longjonsilver (edited 06-29-2018).]
i also ran across this C500 in the scrap yard and wondered if i should buy it.
Notice the incredibly short lengths of wire that i would have to splice i have a good one already on my Fiero, but my plan is to do almost everything before dropping my good running Duke, including the engine harness, so that is why i am looking at this C500. Do any other cars have C500s????? There are only a couple of scrapyards around here that have Fieros, and i have scoured them. i will dig in and get a C203 from another Fiero tomorrow but have to remove the center console first, which probably has protected its C203. The one i found out in the open was a crispy critter and fell apart in my hand as i tried to disconnect it from the other half.
------------------ I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun! 3800 SC swap to come!
i installed the GT aero trim and the rocker panels. i didn't use the metal track that bolts to the skin panels or the reinforcement for the frame under the rocker. i want light weight! i also painted the black parts again.
jon
------------------ I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun! 3800 SC swap to come!
Depending how involved you want to get in this, I chose to rewire my 84 as an 87. Yes, this means pulling out the full interior and dash,etc. This allowed me the better 87/88 headlight setup, as well as the C500 in the 'proper' place. There are many differences, but I feel it was worth it to be on the more 'standard' wiring.
Regarding the C500, you should plan on using what you have in the photo. I recently purchased one in similar condition to use for my swap. Disassemble all 3 parts of the connector. Take the part that carries the engine wiring, and pry the plastic locking gate out from the side of the housing. Using a tiny screwdriver, unlock each terminal from it's slot, and pull it back out of the housing using the stub of the wire remnant. Soak the housing and gate in a strong soapy water solution overnight. Using pipe cleaners and some mineral oil, work to remove all of the sticky black weatherproofing goop from each terminal slot, and a toothbrush for the outsides. Once the housing is clean, inspect it thoroughly for any cracks or heat damage. You can purchase new terminals from EFI Connection, along with a good crimping tool, and reassemble the terminals and wires back into the housing using pinout charts, available on the Sinister Performance website. If you try to solder new wires to the stubs you have, you still have to do this entire disassembly procedure, because soldering without disassembling will damage the surrounding wires and the housing, and your finished product will still contain the old, loose, possibly melted terminals from 1984. Reassembling the C500 uses only 2 standard Delphi metri-pack male terminals, the 280 size and the 480 size. The numbers refer to width of the mating surface, the 280 is 2.8mm wide and the 480 is 4.8mm wide. The other standard sizes used in the metri-pack line are the 120 and the 630. To assemble the wires and terminals, you will need a crimper that works on wires from 22 gauge low amp sensor wires, up to 10 gauge high amp voltage feeds. Whatever you spend on a crimper at this stage will be rewarded, because your wires can be trimmed and terminated to the exact length needed for your swap, and there will be a lot of work for that tool. Soldering the terminal is optional, some will recommend you do this, but my approach was to use all fresh wire, carefully clean all connector housings, reuse all TPA locks (the plastic items that snap in/on to the connector after all wires are in place) and weather pack seals (the rubber gaskets that seal the terminal housings), and use all new terminals from sinister. My car is never going to be driven in nasty weather again, so it will suffice. If you find a donor drivetrain for your swap, the "service number" on the ECU label determines most of the wire placement, size and color for the swap harness. The cross reference charts are on Sinister's website. . SINISTER PERFORMANCE . EFI CONNECTION
[This message has been edited by CJB118 (edited 07-04-2018).]
Thanks CJB118. i pulled the C500 in the photo from the junkyard, but i think i will actually use the one on my car, because the plastic of the junkyard one looks a little crispy, but it will help me figure out the wiring. Your writeup of how to disassemble the C500 and pull the pins is very good. i will make good use of it. i installed rally gauges and the 120 MPH speedo cluster in my car today and had to figure out the wiring and do the soldering, as my crimper could not make it into the tiny space available above my steering column. Also thanks for the link to the wiring of the donor cars. i probably will get a Series 2 SC motor. blessings and thanks again jon
------------------ I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun! 3800 SC swap to come!
I am doing an L67 swap into our 88, started it last year by buying an 03 GTP wreck for $500.00, stripped it of all usable parts and sold the excess pieces in CL. I recommend buying a whole car, so along with the drivetrain you will have enough wire and most connectors to build the swap harness. L67 series II motors are extremely durable, good for around 250,000 miles with normal operation and maintenance. Mine already had 100,000 miles, but I plan to tear it down to a short block, then clean and reassemble it with all new gaskets, seals, wiring and sensors. In that state it should be ready to run for a long time. I really do not plan to put another 150,000 miles on the car after the swap, so why go to extremes? The L67 cars are going for cheap these days, many available on CL for less than $1000, just find one that was not abused. Private sales are best, you can meet the owner, and get an idea of how the car was treated.
------------------ 1988 Pontiac Fiero Formula, Yellow, original. (CJB #118) 1977 Pontiac Le Mans Can-Am W72, original, unrestored. 1977 Pontiac Grand LeMans 2003 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP L67/MN7 (Parts Car) 2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP L67/MN7 (DD)
Yeah, i agree that private sales are the best, and looking at junkyard prices it is also cheaper to buy the whole car. $500US is a good deal, i find that many owners are asking $1000C - $1500C for series 2 SC cars. There is really no reason to go without a supercharger as the cars with them don't seem to be any more expensive than cars without, altho they might sell faster to guys like us
i just put in the rally gages and the 120 MPH speedo in my car, but don't have pics as there are odds and ends that need to be cleaned up first. The gages work fine (gotta put in the later model oil sender, and the tach is set up for a 6 cylinder not the duke), but the lights don't work, except for the right turn signal. i did the test drive before i found out that i had not let off the hand brake
jon
------------------ I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun! 3800 SC swap to come!
[This message has been edited by longjonsilver (edited 07-16-2018).]
Thanks for the compliment. The front vent (scoop) is one that i made out of fibreglass myself copying the one in the rear to cover the hole left from removing my BBQ vent on the 84.
This rear vent is a front scoop from an 80's (?) Mustang. i hate how Mustang makes all these fake scoops. This one looked like it was functional but there was no hole in the hood other than the ones for the bolts, which i used to mount it to the 84. It is functional now heh heh. i had to fibreglass in the sides of the BBQ vent so that the Mustang scoop would work.
The front vent that i made really helps keep the front down at speed. When original my 84 really was squirrly at speed on the freeway- like anything over 50mph. i put in tire chains to help, then i moved the battery to the front and it helped, maybe anything over 55mph. i then put on the aero nose rather than the bumper pads, and that helped maybe to 60mph, but the biggest help has been the front vent which allows me to drive 80mph before the front gets squirrly. In addition i have overheating problems as a result of funky rad fan function and a 35 year old radiator. The natural thermosyphon of the front vent allows me much better cooling, and i have managed to limp by here in Montreal without a new radiator. i have ordered a new 3 row rad from Champion that should fix the problem up front and the 3800 rad fan sender will fix the rad fan problem.
i sized the front vent by cutting out the max section above the rad that i could without cutting structural members. Then i made a foam mold a little larger than the cutout on the sides and also large enuf in the rear so you can't see the cutout from the rear of the vent, unless you put your head on the hood.
Before i made the front vent, i looked at many pics on this forum, and some in person as well, and never found anything that i thot i could do myself that looked any good. i even considered a Subaru scoop as a vent. This was the result.
i have considered using a Mustang fake scoop for the rear brakes as an intake for the air to replace the stock Fiero intake, but they are too big to fit, so i will have to consider plan B
jon
------------------ I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun! 3800 SC swap to come!
[This message has been edited by longjonsilver (edited 07-05-2018).]
i completed the install of my rally gages and 120mph speedo. i used the 84 instrument housing because it had the circuit board that i KNEW was good and the others that i have are somehow beat up. i also used the faceplate from my 84 because it is also in the best shape and because the idiot lites are in the same place as the wiring. i thot about swapping in my cellulose idiot lite covering into the GT faceplate but it wasn't in as good a shape as that of my 84. In addition the faceplate of the GT has a gasket around the speedo and tach that restricts light coming in. i want light to come in and light up my gages!
i have three gage pods because when i brot my Fiero to Canada the speedo didn't work, so i pulled one from the scrap yard and installed just the speedo into my gage pod. i had a mix of metric and imperial units on my gages. Now i just have metric units - it really isnt a 120MPH speedo, its a 180KM/H speedo
i went to the scrap yard today and pulled a taillite assembly for the nochie passanger side. i don't need one - i need the drivers side - but i want to use it as an experiment to put in reflective tape and paint the outside with translucent paint to give a more modern custom look. i got the idea here: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/097646.html
jon
------------------ I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun! 3800 SC swap to come!
i pulled some door pockets from the GT that i got the gages from but i wondered what to do with them as i want my manual handles, not power windows. Soooo, while i was working on my console and had it pulled apart i got the idea of putting them on the sides of the console. It was a hard job getting the little nuts on the bolts. i used a file to clear away the carpet from the head of the bolt. Worked better than anything else. i've got more space now for stuff!
Anybody know how to keep them from hanging open all the time?
jon
------------------ I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun! 3800 SC swap to come!
[This message has been edited by longjonsilver (edited 08-27-2018).]
ignorant prodigy your "What a scrub" comment made me chuckle.
Currently working on a similar swap with a series 2 from an 02 Regal with about 100,000 miles on it. Doing all the gaskets other than the head gaskets cause I am cheap and hopefully that doesn't bite me in the butt later. Unfortunately forgot to get the axles from the guy so will have to figure that out when I get to that point. Currently trying to find a shop that will machine down and balance a fly wheel for me since I am keeping my 4 speed.
Tons of great info on here, just need to find the time to get to reading!
The battery is in the front, rear vent is a scoop from a Mustang - i removed the BBQ grill. i made the front radiator vent out of fibreglass to match the rear vent. 
i have a good one already on my Fiero, but my plan is to do almost everything before dropping my good running Duke, including the engine harness, so that is why i am looking at this C500. Do any other cars have C500s????? There are only a couple of scrapyards around here that have Fieros, and i have scoured them. i will dig in and get a C203 from another Fiero tomorrow but have to remove the center console first, which probably has protected its C203. The one i found out in the open was a crispy critter and fell apart in my hand as i tried to disconnect it from the other half. 
