Pretty excited to have this finally installed. It's an LS4 with LS3 cam, LS2 intake and fuel rail, and LS7 exhaust manifold bolted to an F40 6 speed manual transmissoin.
[This message has been edited by GPickardt (edited 05-23-2018).]
I am slow at figuring this out and finally switched all of our build photos from our Mac. Now that I have Windows access, I am working to post our father son(s) build thread. More to follow, I will start at the beginning and list references and specifics as I go.
Our swap started in California with a 3800 build. That quickly changed when we started researching swap options. That is where I cam across FIeroGuru's thread and got us looking at the LS4 option. I have to say, Paul has been a huge part of the success of this build and the technical guide throughout the process.
So we found an LS4 and tracked down some additional parts for this build. Fakhri from FIero's West got me started with a package deal. He had done some research and had purchased the engine, LS2 intake manifold, LS7 exhaust manifolds, and F40 transmission.
Sorry, hon, thank you for the donor car that my older son now claims as his.
Gary, congrats on getting this swap completed and welcome to the very exclusive "running LS4/F40 swap" club!
I am sure you and your son will enjoy it.
Bring it to the 35th and we can take a slight detour to my house (about 90 miles away).
Paul, Thanks, that would be great. I will see how the drivability develops now that it is running. If nothing else, maybe another meeting opportunity will develop. Thanks for everything!
Now that we had the engine, I will pick back up with the build thread. I am on the mac, so I will post some pictures tonight. The first part is all about coming up with a plan, building a list, and rounding up all of your parts.
To shape the build intent for this car, I should start off by stating that I am not a professional mechanic. It is a hobby, and my sons and I are mechanically inclined enough to work on our own cars. But knowing that I only have a home garage, and normal weekend mechanic tools, the goal was to build a performance oriented LS4 using stock, or OEM equivalent parts where possible. Obviously the Spec aluminum flywheel and stage 3 clutch are not OEM, but close enough for this build right? I have a welder, and a lot of hand tools, but did not have access to machine shop services. Everything was either made by hand by us personally, or bought from places available to everyone to do the same build if they choose. I would recommend a good welder if you are going to do as much fab work as you can, and I am going to purchase a plasma cutter for future swap projects. That will save a lot of grinding, sanding, and extra drilling.
I have started a build list that I will post in the next couple of days up front of the rest of the step by step as best I can recall and will also recall them as I go through the process of how we completed the build.
Outline of build: Engine - 2007 LS4 with 58X timing - important to know LS4 differences especially for ECM, harness, and tuning requirements. LS2 intake, injectors and fuel rails DOD delete - LS7 Lifters and trays, stock LS7 pushrods Katec valley cover with OPSU adapter LS3 Corvette cam, LS3 90mm throttle body (gold blade), timing chain, and timing chain cover LS7 Exhaust Manifolds, stainless exhaust flange plates, and full stainless dual exhaust with 8x5 stainless Magnaflow mufflers Upgraded hi-flow fuel pump, braided fuel line and AN fittings PSI Wiring Harness - modified and finished by FIero King (Joe Sokol) Corvette throttle pedal (drive by wire) K&N free breather filter, aluminum intake tubing, sleeves and clamps Transmission - 2006 F40 - I sent measurement for LS4 (FWD V8), not 5.3 truck motor V8 to Spec for this specific combo. Starter bracket from Fieroguru Spec aluminum flywheel Spec stage 3 flywheel Hydraulic throwout bearing spacer (required to not over-extend throwout bearing) hard lesson learned Stock GM hydraulic throwout bearing Fieroguru clutch line adapter Fieroguru shifter mod kit (5 to 6 speed) Rodney Dickman clutch master cylinder Upgraded 3 row Champion radiator Modified coolant crossover pipe (from stock) Misc coolant and heater hoses Upgraded 12 inch Corvette rotors with stock 88 calipers Aluminum brake upgrade brackets and hardware - PFF member, will provide info in section of build Stailess steel brake lines Greenstuff brake pads Upgraded brake booster Rodney Dickman brake booster adapter rod
More to follow...
[This message has been edited by GPickardt (edited 05-24-2018).]
Similar to Fieroguru's build, we decided to go with an LS2 intake, fuel rails, and injectors. This was included in the package deal I got with the motor. I still needed a throttle body and ended up finding one from San Diego Craigslist for $100 dollars. It is a 90mm gold blade throttle body off of a LS3 Corvette. Gold blades will work, they operate opposite direction of the silver bladed LS2 throttle body. As you will see later, it is enormous compared to the stock Fiero throttle body.
Since we did the DOD delete on this build, I was able to find a Katek OPSU valley cover with angled adapter for the LS2 valve cover. It also comes with a vent line for running a breather line.. This is not required for this swap and later I show the 4pt steam vents and catch can breather line routing.
Next build will have a plain valley cover and I will run the OPSU off of Fieroguru’s block adapter to simplify more.
As we were collecting parts for the LS4 swap, a friend from the Fiero West community donated this 87 GT. It is an auto setup, but our plan is to do a manual conversion and do a Turbo LS4 / F40 swap on this one next. Build is already under way and photos will follow later.
Here are a couple of the Fieros we had in California.
And the current LS4 swap candidates before suspension and wheels. And LS4.
[This message has been edited by GPickardt (edited 05-27-2018).]
I've dreamed of this type conversion but never thought anyone would pull it off. I'm sure some of the GTO boys would take you under their wing as a baby brother. Hope to see you at GM Carlisle. Absolutely awesome.
Spoon
------------------ "Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut
Even though we had collected some of the important parts for this build, we had still not done much actual wrench time on the engine or swap project as a whole. Fakhri found an 88 cradle for me, along with the entire suspension, and I had collected a few other odds and ends like a shifter, high flow fuel pump, and a set of coil-overs from a 86 GT that I would use to make coilovers for this 88. The plan is to build a complete swap cradle and keep the car running and driving until the LS4 package was complete. Good in a sense that it was my son's only car, but without an empty engine bay to mock things up with. Either way, we were determined to make it happen.
In the process of this build, my daughter got into a major accident in her 88 GT and if you don't think these are safe little cars, pictures should be proof enough. She was broad sided going through an intersection and walked away from the incident with a slight concussion.
I had bought a white 88 GT from a coworker with a bad engine and was able to transplant the drive train and interior into the white GT. Later I traded it to a friend of my son's for a 2001 Camaro Z28. Later traded that for another lower mileage red 88 GT for my younger son. At this point, now everyone in my immediate family has owned and driven a Fiero, all 5 of us. My wife had an 88 SE when we met and got married in Hawaii in 1993. Funny how things in life turn out the way they do.
I had also decided to retire from the Marine Corps at this time. What I didn't know is that would move us literally from coast to coast. So from California to Maryland, it would take us 5 trips to move everything, and everyone. Obviously, not much swap work going on, but since my younger son and I were alone and unafraid in Maryland, what else would 2 guys end up doing? Yep, finding another LS4 to swap.
Now that the move is complete, all of the cars finally made it to the house in Maryland and the parts hunt continues for the LS4 build, this is where the whole thing starts to actually pick up and move quicker. One of the few things we did while in California, was to start the cradle conversion for the LS4. My friend Chris had swapped a Hemi into a 2010 Jeep Wrangler and had made his own mounts, so we decided to go ahead and bolt the trans to the LS4 and we took it all over to Chris' house to put on the cradle and fab up some mounts. With the car there to take measurements from, we finished the mounts, disassembled everything, and got it packed up for the move.
From here we get more specifically into the actual swap work. At this point, I found a PSI wiring harness that was meant for a stand-alone LSX series with 58X timing and T56 or other manual transmission. I am not a wiring expert, so this was going to be the easiest way to build a harness for me without having to find someone to build one from scratch. I happened to find another one on Craiglist, same harness for $200, and picked up a 2006 GTO manual harness before we left California. The good thing about the PSI harness was that it also came with the pedal and fuse panel and relays for additional build features that I would use later. You can download the HAR-10 series (1035, 1037, 1039, etc) Look for the LS2 / manual transmission with either the 24X or 58X timing depending on what year your LS4 is.
More to follow...
Take time to remember those that have fallen for the freedoms we enjoy this Memorial day.
In the process of this build, my daughter got into a major accident in her 88 GT and if you don't think these are safe little cars, pictures should be proof enough. She was broad sided going through an intersection and walked away from the incident with a slight concussion.
Wow, glad she was ok.
Do you know how fast the other vehicle was going and what it was?
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 05-29-2018).]
Wow! I've always been a bit nervous about the doors on my turbo LS4 kit body. Those side impact rails aren't there. I would probably be dead in an accident like that.
I've always been a bit nervous about the doors on my turbo LS4 kit body. Those side impact rails aren't there.
There are plenty of times (basically every time I open one!) that I don't like how heavy factory Fiero doors are... and then I see pictures like the one above! Makes me better appreciate them!
Congratulations on completing a very nice and neat swap. Always loved the LS4's but never had the time to do the many steps needed for this swap. Would love to see the car and speak to you about the swap. Hope that you decide to join us at Fieros at Carlisle on Saturday June 23rd. Despite a bad weather report (that never materialized) last year MAFOA still had over 50 Fieros in attendance. Its a great Fiero show and one of the biggest. As for the accident; its nice to know that your daughter was not injured, but we have come to expect it from this car
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 05-31-2018).]
At this point we get pretty serious about the build and start with the engine. We had a stock LS4 and had the LS2 Intake, fuel rails and injectors, as well as the 90 mm throttle body from an LS3 Corvette motor, and I picked up the LS7 lifter trays, lifters, and pushrods from a PFF member that I have on the build list that I will post next time. Along with the DOD delete, our plan was to upgrade to a 4 corner steam vent system and replace the CAM with a stock LS3 Corvette cam, timing set, and as we later found out, I needed to upgrade to the LSL3 timing cover.
You will see the LS3 timing cover along with some other updates when we pull the engine out after over extending the slave cylinder. Other than that, and some re-painting on the engine, it is pretty much done at this point.
Next we move on to the transmission. Same issue as everyone else, we have to cut the hole for the starter bracket. 2 things - start small once you ge the bracket to mark the area, you can always go larger, and get Fierogurus new bracket, it works well with no additional mods. I did incorporate the WCF mount on this.
I called and found that SPEC they had a flywheel and clutch setup for the conversion. If you go to their web site you will find the LS4/F40 under their conversion options. As you will read more about later, this is the first setup from SPEC, but was nice and came with everything including longer flywheel bolts. We went with the Stage 3 6 puck setup and even though it works well, it does take some getting use to for normal driving conditions.
Next step was to measure and check the spline engagement.
And a couple of pictures with the clutch installed, starter installed on bracket, and Fierogurus shifter cable bracket installed.
As more of us are doing LS4 swaps, it's good to see the body of knowledge growing, I can't give Fiero guru enough credit for walking us through his build, providing information and answering questions... After "shoehorning" a Northstar into my car, I'l blown away buy how much room I have to work with,(It helps having gone with the F23.)
1988 Engine Cradle 88 cradle w/ suspension Pick a part San Diego 200 Rear wheel bearings Advance Auto 130 Rear suspension bushings Rodney Dickman 149 Knuckle Long Bolts Rodney Dickman 8.89 Rear Knuckle Girdle Kit Rodney Dickman 59.95 EBC-DP2325 Green Stuff Brake Pads Summit 177.36 RUS-692110 Russell SS Brake Lines Summit 99.97 TFF-2232NB 11in Brake Booster Summit 123.99 YH141897 / YH141898 12 Inch Corvette Rotors (15 lbs) Carquest 279.96
Coolant System Water fill neck West Coast Fiero 275 Champion Radiator Fiero Thomas 175 Coolant Hose Autozone 16.95 Coolant Hose Autozone 14.99 Heater Hose (by the foot) Advance Auto 18.45
Embedding a video is the next level pro stuff. I'll try to get there one day.
Embedding a YouTube video here is super simple... just click EDIT on my previous post to see how easy it is.
The real trick is to turn your cell phone 90° and to shoot video in landscape mode. Shooting video in portrait mode, and then having it fill one third of a monitor and/or TV screen makes absolutely no sense!
Great thread. Can't wait to start my LS4 build soon. Got the motor, now i'm collecting all the "other" parts. See you went w/ the LS3 intake, cam, TB. I'm going LS6. Other than being a 5.3L its going to have all LS6 parts on it.
Makes me better appreciate them!
