I want to convert my 87 GT headlights to LED lights. I've gone on eBay and there are a lot of different ones. Some, I am not sure are legal. Who makes the best. Any ideas?
Oh boy, here we go again.... but seriously, I put a set from Ebay that was NOT dot approved and quite frankly quite illegal as they blinded the holy heck out of oncoming drivers. I took them off within a week. So hopefully others will chime in on what works very well and does not cause others to be blinded. *I can tell you for certain that those LED ones with like 15 little LED’s are not the ones to get*
-Crasian
[This message has been edited by Crasian (edited 06-03-2018).]
Buy Trucklite 27450C for US use, GE and other big name companies or expect problems...
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Originally posted by IMSA GT: The top rated lights would be OPT7 Fluxbeam lights. They are just the LED cartridge and you would have to buy the light housings separate.
Most H4 shells aren't legal to start with. LED and HID "bulbs"/cartridges in H4/HB2 shells is crap for many reasons and shells can't focus them correctly. LED "bulbs"/cartridge have big problem because can't move Heat from LED themselves and often dies in 1-3 years. Even faster. Even w/ Fans working. High RPM Fans often plug up w/ crap or break either way quickly kills LEDs.
Quick example of a dead unit... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CX_uFs5vKc0 Just one of Typical failures and shows crap sold thru Ebay Amazon etc. While saying "nice machining" for Al body, Doesn't begin to cover problems except dead low beam because of high heat.
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Originally posted by Domtech: For LED, these are the ones you want: http://a.co/0SCBh70
Direct fit, correct wiring, wont blind people, nice and bright... Little pricey, but worth it.
Sorry but Is yet another Counterfeit and saying DOT SAE (E) on lens is still not legal. If you bought them, you got conned.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
So now I am confused. I thought it would be a pretty simple choice. Solid state, less heat, longer life, less amperage--good idea. It doesn't seem so. I don't have the electronics knowledge the guy in the video has but it sure seems the LEDs have been put through some pretty rough stresses.
Sorry but Is yet another Counterfeit and saying DOT SAE (E) on lens is still not legal. If you bought them, you got conned.
While I didn't buy those specific ones several people from the local club have and all seem very happy with them. They have a nice cutoff that gets lower on the driver side, and properly adjusted I don't think you would ever get in any trouble over them missing a dot number. Look thru the customer images and you can see what they look like on a Fiero.
Just one of Typical failures and shows crap sold thru Ebay Amazon etc. While saying "nice machining" for Al body, Doesn't begin to cover problems except dead low beam because of high heat.
Even though I have no interest in converting my headlights over to LED, I found that video to be quite interesting.
Originally posted by kgoodyear: So now I am confused. I thought it would be a pretty simple choice. Solid state, less heat, longer life, less amperage--good idea. It doesn't seem so. I don't have the electronics knowledge the guy in the video has but it sure seems the LEDs have been put through some pretty rough stresses.
It likely Died just using them normally. He's an UK electrician for shows fairs etc and made many items for those groups. Give one fail for unit on hand but not a car or IT guy and doesn't follow cars with problems for crap "upgrades." Just last month UK MOT sim to US DOT etc have made stricter rules to pass inspection and not just Diesel cars.
Even ignore H4/HB2 shells are made to have Halogen bulbs... In that case, even w/ a fan the aluminum where LEDs are is too small to move heat fast enough and LB LED fries. HB LED would fry too if used more. Can't use more Al because every fraction of a mm in the mounting zone pushes LED more out of focus and performs even worse. Most have seen small fans in Desktops Laptops and Game boxes full of crap and CPU slows down or crashes even w/ fans at highest speeds? Or Fan(s) Bearings just wear out and stops working? Same would happen to many of HL units and LED quickly fries.
You're not nearly first to get confused and Ebay Amazon and Many Others vendors are raking in Millions of $ selling illegal lights not just LEDs. Including TFS and others that pretend they are Fiero owners "Best Friend." Cheap units are easy to guess many are crap but not always. Best LEDs behind color lenses or in small fixtures can perform badly or can't dump heat and die. See my Cave, LED poisoning and Lighbulbs.
Far worse this is Not just Cars w/ problems... 120/240 LED lights for home or commercial use sold thru Ebay Amazon and others have big problems that can hurt/kill you or burn down the building install in. One friend recently got some small LED "flood lights" from Ebay... Ground wire does? Nothing because not connected inside like this from bigclive. (Many others show same problems but is easy to just use another of his examples.) If more likely When the LED or Driver shorts to case you have a Case w/ main power to shock anyone that touches it. You pay more to go to Graybar even Lowe's stores but products sold are much safer to run. I mean ones the Store sell on it's own Web site too. You have to watch 3rd party vendors selling thru any web sites.
I Don't use YT tag because take too much space and some refuse embed due to YT DRM.
If has a Flat Cutoff then isn't legal in many places. Cutoff shape should be higher on the right for US Canada Most of EU and others that drive on right side of the road. Legal or not, This helps to light Road Signs, People, etc, on the right of the road w/o blinding oncoming drivers. Short Example: http://donsnotes.com/home_g...ight-adjustment.html DOT is top, Most of EU is next, UK is bottom.
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Originally posted by kgoodyear: Yes! I saw it as well. I never knew there were fans on them. IS there any advantage to the new LED headlights?
Above example type or HID in H4/HB2 shells. None and often worse lighting and blind other drivers.
If you use products like Trucklite GE and some others HL then can help but cost is too high and not enough warranty for most drivers. Even then... The Back of the Shells need air flow to cool. Back side is Heatsink for the LEDs whether or not back has fins. Most HL Buckets aren't made for them and covers most of the back. So for many vehicles might last 1-3 years to out last the Warranty (Trucklite is 3 years, others may be shorter.) but not enough to justify the high cost.
Instead of wasting money, go find a pair of Cibie Z Beams or E code replacement headlights. Yes, real Cibie lights will be expensive, however, the light pattern is excellent on low and high beam. Use GE silverstar bulbs and you should be happy. No, they are not as bright as the new headlights that blind the **** out of everyone in front of them, but they are much better than stock .
High, low, turn signal and position light, all LED, heated or un-heated, and DOT legal. They are designed for snow plows, trucks, and other non-specific-fitment vehicles.
I am not sure if they would be a little bigger than the turn signal units... but they might fit behind the fascia, and mount to the front of the bulkhead.
If they would fit, or fit with a little bit of trimming, it could eliminate the pop-ups altogether to save weight, or the pop-ups could serve another purpose, like housing some low-rise LED light bars with fog optics or something... Something used at lower-speed and occaisionally.
Putting headlights in the signal location would mean that night driving on the highway wouldn't need deploy aero speed brakes to use the headlights. ;-)
[This message has been edited by BoxerFanatic (edited 06-08-2018).]
Putting headlights in the signal location would mean that night driving on the highway wouldn't need deploy aero speed brakes to use the headlights. ;-)
he he--aero speed brakes--that's funny!
They look nice but the aero speed brakes are an important part of the Fiero experience. Along with that Fiero owners I suspect are too frugal to drop $750 on a set.
While I didn't buy those specific ones several people from the local club have and all seem very happy with them. They have a nice cutoff that gets lower on the driver side, and properly adjusted I don't think you would ever get in any trouble over them missing a dot number. Look thru the customer images and you can see what they look like on a Fiero.
I am one of those people. Have had installed for a couple years now. Easy install (no harder than changing a sealed beam), ZERO modifications needed, zero issues.
LED, DOT compliant, USA made, probably nearly triple the light output of halogen sealed-beam, and properly focused, and will probably outlast almost any car they are installed in.
Mount and connect directly in place of stock sealed beams.
TruckLite and some others do produce less expensive LED-reflective, rather than LED-projection sealed-beam replacements. DOT approved should mean proper cutoff and light output. Chinese knock-off stuff is the least expensive, but also the most likely to be inferior optics and output, either wasting light output, low light output, or blinding on-coming drivers.
[This message has been edited by BoxerFanatic (edited 06-08-2018).]
One thing about LED headlights that I hadn't considered: They don't get warm like a sealed beam or halogen headlight, so can accumulate snow if driven in very cold temps when snowing. Not an issue in Seattle, but something to consider if your car is a year-round driver in snow country.
One thing about LED headlights that I hadn't considered: They don't get warm like a sealed beam or halogen headlight, so can accumulate snow if driven in very cold temps when snowing. Not an issue in Seattle, but something to consider if your car is a year-round driver in snow country.
I figured most Fiero owners kept their cars neatly and safely garaged in the winter...
But that 8900 Evo 2 does have a heated version, with a wire grid heater on the lens, to keep it clear in freezing weather.
JW Speaker 9800 or anything like it won't be legal in park/turn opening because below Min Height for HL in most places. HL must be above Bumper level of vehicle. Mounted there can get you stopped as having Fog/Driver light on w/o LB HL on in many places. Some states farther restrict Fog/Driver lights use to driving in Fog or other bad weather.
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Originally posted by BoxerFanatic: I figured most Fiero owners kept their cars neatly and safely garaged in the winter... But that 8900 Evo 2 does have a heated version, with a wire grid heater on the lens, to keep it clear in freezing weather.
You figured wrong on many owners. Many drive all year unless state etc call snow emergency and force off the road.
Snow blocking problem isn't just Lakes States or New England and Canada... Even Halogen and others can be "blinded" for a while or stay "blind" depending on weather and roads. Heavy often Wet snow trying to block HL and Windows Wipers even in Va, VW, MD, southern PA, etc depending storms path. Sleet/slush can freeze easy many times too. Even a thin coat of clear ice can majorly hurt HL Output. Road slush is often full of crap and even wet can reduce output a lot. Fiero park/turn opening full of crap isn't only car/truck w/ same problem. Trim around park/turn and/or HL fixtures on many other old cars can do same thing driving in winter. Is better now w/ aero fixtures but can still happen to many w/ them.
Many people will say that replacing a halogen headlight with an LED headlight in a reflector housing is a mistake. While it’s true that the reflector housing is not designed for other types of lights, LEDs can actually perform much better than most people think. It’s not as simple as plugging in an LED, though. There is one extra (but easy) step. I just replaced my halogen lights with LEDs, and the first thing I noticed is that the beam was too high, exactly what people said would happen. Luckily, most cars have a screw to adjust the height of the headlights. I was searching for my replacement here - https://10carbest.com/led-headlights-bulbs
[This message has been edited by JohnyWalter (edited 05-30-2019).]
Originally posted by JohnyWalter: Many people will say that replacing a halogen headlight with an LED headlight in a reflector housing is a mistake. While it’s true that the reflector housing is not designed for other types of lights, LEDs can actually perform much better than most people think. It’s not as simple as plugging in an LED, though. There is one extra (but easy) step. I just replaced my halogen lights with LEDs, and the first thing I noticed is that the beam was too high, exactly what people said would happen. Luckily, most cars have a screw to adjust the height of the headlights.
Another sucker to buy garbage from China. They laugh at you all the way to the bank for products often won't last a year.
DIY Adjusting Aim means little to nothing and still have illegal lights in many countries. If your country uses headlight aiming machines and/or actually look a bulb type as part of Vehicle Inspections you'll likely fail. In many countries, the Police can stop you for illegal lights causing you to get big fines and Points too. Points are often far worse because often causes Insurance problems and if have too many can suspend your license. If you drive in other countries, can make you a target for police to stop you with Netherlands tags and iffy lights.
Video above is only the tip of the iceberg of problems using LEDs in Halogen Shells because it only shows 1 short term failure that's very common. Very Short version... LED is mounted on a very thin aluminum part that cannot remove heat fast enough no matter how big the heat sink is on the back of unit even with the fan. LEDs then runs over the heat limit and die quickly. Is Same problem as CPU in your machine with heat sink problems. Even a CPU with a dirty heatsink can throttle the clock to a crawl or crash to prevent damage but LED "Upgrades" just die for overheating. Not just Headlight "upgrades..." Most "CANBUS Friendly" units can cook the LEDs too or worse because of the built in resistors... Smokin' hot CANbus LED lamps. (230C in open air.) from same guy.
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 05-27-2019).]
Originally posted by Tony Kania: The top of my Fiero sits at 44" tall. I want to be the brightest thing on the road at night.
But this doesn't have to = to having crap lights. I have better Legal HL then OE Halogen and also check/fix wiring to them. Crap wiring will cause even stock HL to dim or even burn up things like HL Main and Dimmer Switches. I have 2357 rear light on my notchie too. Bright side is a bit brighter and turns on faster then 2057 and 1157 but doesn't cause headaches. But Don't use them w/ rear amber turn lights for GT because may blind drivers behind you and cops may stop you too.
You can get Legal LED and HB2 HL but most HL "upgrades" sold thru TFS Ebay etc are Illegal or even Counterfeit w/ fake DOT and Ecode marks.
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 05-27-2019).]
Just going to add my experience here. This is what I purchased recently LED and they work great. I am happy with my purchase. I can also say that the difference between the stockers and these is huge, much better visibility.
[This message has been edited by Spadesluck (edited 02-16-2021).]
Sorry but both Amazon links above seem to be more Counterfeits and DOT etc marks are bogus. Big giveaway they do not have Manufacturer Logo/Name and other data molded into the lens require to meet DOT and EU rules for all HL bulbs. One has extra wire to turn on whatever gimmick won't pass DOT or most State rules either.
Amazon is almost as bad as Ebay selling counterfeit car parts. Unless the counterfeit is a knockoff of say ACdelco and Brand Owner sends DMCA take down etc... Amazon and Ebay will continue selling this crap for Years.
Use Trunklite HL pics and maybe your old HL (if that was legit.) or just go to parts stores to see examples of real DOT/EU markings. You can read FMVSS/CMVSS 108 but way too hard to understand for most people because most info is buried in the text. US--> https://www.govinfo.gov/con...-vol5-sec571-108.pdf You can read EU rules too. Is online at https://eur-lex.europa.eu/l...CELEX:42010X0831(06) They show better and more examples of "Ecode" marking.
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Originally posted by olejoedad: Silver Star halogen provide plenty of light at legal speeds.
Or XtraVision. Brighter vs OE but doesn't cost so much. If you drive at night often note that bright Halogen while legal often have a short lifetime. Often much shorter if your car has electrical problems. And that's w/ all brands not just Sylvania SS/XV.
Phillips had a good HL but stopped making sealed beam bulbs for cars years ago now.
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 05-30-2019).]
I have direct fit Truck-Lite 27009 Halogen Headlights on my Fiero. Look nice and they are plenty bright. Don't see any advantage in LED headlights. Is there?
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
I have direct fit Truck-Lite 27009 Halogen Headlights on my Fiero. Look nice and they are plenty bright. Don't see any advantage in LED headlights. Is there?
For me personally I wanted my headlights lights to match in color with the switchbacks, cool white being the color. LED's do have an advantage of less power consumption.
these are definitely the ones to get if you can justify the price. wish they would give a longevity estimate on them before dishing out 400 dollars. would be nice if one goes bad in a year or so, to know they would replace it for free or at a nominal cost.
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Originally posted by BoxerFanatic:
For standard replacement... probably not the cheapest, but likely the best quality replacement in the stock location:
LED, DOT compliant, USA made, probably nearly triple the light output of halogen sealed-beam, and properly focused, and will probably outlast almost any car they are installed in.
Mount and connect directly in place of stock sealed beams.
TruckLite and some others do produce less expensive LED-reflective, rather than LED-projection sealed-beam replacements. DOT approved should mean proper cutoff and light output. Chinese knock-off stuff is the least expensive, but also the most likely to be inferior optics and output, either wasting light output, low light output, or blinding on-coming drivers.
Warranty: Truck-lite LED HL is 3 years on every LED hl page. example 27450C J.W. Speaker LED, none heated, is 5 years on Terms of Sale page. Heated LED only 2 years.
Getting them to honor the Warranty might be hard or not because "Dead" HL can be blamed on problems w/ the vehicle. Nice thing is both are made to handle 12 to 24v safely so iffy wiring and alt shouldn't be a problem. But... LEDs can be killed by car's power surges. Example: AC Clutch coils have a Diode to kill surges by the coil but many Diodes die and never get fix and 700+v surges they can generate causes a lot of problems. Many car relay have Diodes to but motors and others don't have anything as surge protection.
Truck-lite and the rest of "real" LED HL crowd may have built in surge protection (No-one has bought $150+ HL then tearing apart and looking at schematics that I have found.) but Ebay vendors and others making crap LED of any type won't have this. JWS says on warranty page:
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3.0 WARRANTY EXCLUSIONS J.W. Speaker’s Warranty Policy does not allow for claims resulting from the following conditions: • Abuse, neglect and damage • Modifications and alterations • Improper installation • Chemical exposure (e.g. cleaning solutions) • Voltage spikes, transients and over-voltage beyond rated specifications • Naturally occurring phenomena such as condensation, corrosion and UV degradation • Wear and tear, including damage from road debris and resultant lens degradation
ETA060619---> JWS HL Spec PDF said it does have surge protection (fact is not on the web page)... "Transient Spike Protection 150V Peak @ 1 HZ-100 Pulse" That can help when you have small surges. Big surges can still kill them.
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 06-06-2019).]
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: I have direct fit Truck-Lite 27009 Halogen Headlights on my Fiero. Look nice and they are plenty bright. Don't see any advantage in LED headlights. Is there?
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Originally posted by Spadesluck: For me personally I wanted my headlights lights to match in color with the switchbacks, cool white being the color. LED's do have an advantage of less power consumption.
Lets assume for a minute you have prefect quality LED whatever... Unlikely for most LED but we'll say that... Yes. You can save power using LEDs but doesn't save much if any Gas or HP from engine driving the alternator because a big chunk of power from the engine is just spinning the alt (Worse if you still have a SI alt) and E power use doesn't matter much for saving a few amps.
LED HL can saves power vs. Halogen HL but "CANBUS" LED and other load/ballast resistors eats power, often eats same or more power then OE bulbs. JWS HL uses ~2a each on High Beam vs. OE Halogen 4a each on Low Beam and More w/ High beam or many Aftermarket Halogen w/ 50+w low beam. Other LED in a car w/o load resistors doesn't save real power to matter to the alt or anything else like OE bulbs or LED dome brake turn lights are simply not on enough to matter. Taillights and markers are on all the time at night or in bad weather but OE bulbs are not bright and thus don't use a lot of power to meet FVMSS etc.
So for reference: All OE parking/tail/marker lights for Fiero notchbacks eats ~ 5 amps. (Dash and dome on too? max ~ 2.5a more.) That's tested w/ a DC amp clamp not just data from my cave. If your car is so short on electric that saving 3 to 4a (5a - whatever LEDs uses) for park/turn/tail lights matter... You have other often major problems. Examples: A rusty ground will keep rusting and most people have this in spades in most vehicles just 5-10 years old, worse is high road salt states etc. Dim/blinking HL and others can be many wiring problems and many have more then one thing wrong on a circuit. IOW If dash volt meter moves or light(s) dim when you turn on things, most often something is wrong w/ grounds and so on anywhere in the car and installing LED just hinds the root cause while the real problem(s) continues to rot.
I'm running projectors, so this won't apply to many. I'm using 60mm Halogen Hella low beams. They were still dot/sae legal when I bought them. Have the Hella lit to prove it. They are only approve for new motorcycle installs now. However there is strict instructions on height and distance apart to stay legal. I'm using EOE (an Asian OEM)high beams and they do have a dot/sae stamp. Dot approval is much easier on high beams. Both are all metal units. Except for the lens ring on the Hellas The Hellas are 9006 and the EOE s are H1. I also have changed the wiring in the front so that I have the headlights controlled by relays. With 2 low beams on or all 4 lights on on high beam. If you are looking for LEDS, I would highly suggest ones with Phillips ZES or MZ or Cree csp chips to get the tightest pattern. I still use the halogens in the low beams, due to me not being able to find an affordable set that I like. I do have them in the high beams. They have the CSP chips. Do some research and you find out how to tell fakes. Contrary to belief, most manufactures use China to produce the bulbs. Were they get you is where they are sourcing their chips from. They are not blinding. I did have to spend a lot of time finding a good "focal" spot. Not just up or down, but in and out to get the best pattern. This is also going to be harder with low beams. No matter what I have done the LEDs do not penetrate down as far as the halogens, but are brighter. With the exception of reflective surfaces(Interstate signage, road stripping etc.)The halogens will always have a better focused center. This is where LEDs would work better for low beams, but the brightness is not needed for that. However the bulbs are getting better each year. The chip manufactures seem to come out with better chip modules each year. The biggest change was about 2 years ago in how they were able to mount the diode on top of the electrodes as apposed to between. This lessened the need for a light disperser. And the diodes are closer to the heat sink material.
Just going to add my experience here. This is what I purchased recently 5x7 LED Headlight and they work great. I am happy with my purchase. I can also say that the difference between the stockers and these is huge, much better visibility.
Reading some reviews of these and they look great! Were they plug and play? What is required in installing these?
I see a review about how using them on an MR2 required a conversion harness.
Originally posted by Vicophine: Reading some reviews of these and they look great! Were they plug and play? What is required in installing these?
I see a review about how using them on an MR2 required a conversion harness.
Many crap and illegal items get 5 stars "Reviews" because fools flooding w/o a clue or worse often paid by whatever like gift card offer in An Amazon Scam: The Mofut Key Lock Box YT by LockPickingLawyer
This is funny that claim "Real DOT SEA" but can't even spell check the image... Says can lookup data in NHTSA etc but can't find the company let alone bulbs.
Ameca and ISOQA Technical Service are real but can't find the cert is real. Ameca is US but actual Lab used is in China...
Looks like Lenses does not have Logo/Name of maker and that alone is Not Legal for a bulb claiming meets FMVSS 108. I need a better picture that shows all markings on the lens. Lighting a clear lens showing marks is harder to do. Might be easier outside in sun w/o flash on for camera.
I'm betting the 1 and 2 stars are more accurate plus Q/A w/ saying scratch easy etc Worse if true, scratch easy will very likely fail FMVSS test and that cert is Bogus. In 108 NHTSA have publish data for how to test for scratching etc.
NHTSA can and does order Recalls for aftermarket parts but even if does here, the "company" just play games and get all money selling crap and most buyers will still use them.
w/o a clue or worse often paid by whatever like gift card offer in 
