With fuel prices breaking the barrier I became a little nervous and expect the gas thieves to start showing up in the middle of the night or "day". Yesterday I purchased online 4 locking gas caps. I was surprised to see there was not a shortage..... yet. I did the 3800sc swap on the Fiero and that's uses the expensive premium fuel. Yes I even have the sticker on the inside of the fuel door (Premium Fuel Only). I thought the inside fuel door release was a mild deterrent until my annual inspection was due and the mechanic called me to ask where the release lever was. Said he searched all over the interior. ps: The 4 locking caps came to $68.xx on Amazon.
Spoon
------------------ "Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut
It is even possible to get a siphon down into the tank? I tried it once and the hose didn't reach the tank. Gas tank locks are certainly good to have but does the gas door still close with one?
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
If buying a locking gas cap for your Fiero, make sure to get a non-vented one (if there's a choice).
[EDIT]
Out of curiosity, I had a look to see what locking gas caps might be available at RockAuto. I was more than a bit surprised to see that all the caps (both locking and regular) are listed as Vented.
It's my understanding that the Fiero uses a non-vented gas cap, as all gas tank venting is done through the charcoal canister. So, what's going on with all the Vented gas caps being listed as replacements?
Found a relevant post Here. Apparently, the Fiero gas cap is "one-way" vented.
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The gas cap on a Fiero is one-way vented. It allows air to be drawn in, but doesn't allow any air / fumes to escape.
When the system is working correctly, any vacuum is relieved by the gas cap. Any pressure is relieved through the charcoal canister. You should never encounter any "hissing" when you loosen the gas cap.
So... with that information, I'm still not sure how to determine for sure whether or not a replacement gas cap is the required "one-way" vented variety.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 03-06-2022).]
Yes, because Fiero fill port is so long w/ bends including tight 90° at end... Is very hard to push any siphon into the tank at all.
Many other cars have same "problem" trying to empty tanks for FP problems.
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Originally posted by Spoon: ps: The 4 locking caps came to $68.xx on Amazon.
For ref: Fiero Stant Lock gas cap is ST10501 $24.99 from stant/carparts.com and others.
Even if you buy a locking cap... They are Security Theater. IOW They are crap even from Stant.
You don't need a Locksmith or LPLawyer to remove w/o a key. I removed many of them working at gas stations because idiots loose/forget the keys and out of gas. If wasn't very easy to "pick" then just destroy the top in seconds very easy then remove the rest. Often can still use the rest until replace the broken cap. I took longer then that only to protect the car's body and paint.
I only had them on some Fords and others w/o covers over gas caps just to prevent kids grabbing them etc then water getting in easy.
Before unleaded fuel and small hole in the fill port... Many install a "spring" to block siphons. Easy to install just from opening side but hard to pull out. (To do this now would need to take filling port and hose(s) apart.)
The "Springs" did work But If they really want your fuel... many simply punch a hole in the tank and drain that way. They maybe "patch" the hole w/ whatever to get the rest later. Often don't bother and rest is on street etc.
E2A-->Bandit Blocker is still available but harder to install w/ many unleaded gas vehicles... You have to push down the tube so pump nozzles work but most have no room to do that. More so when tube bend right below the small nozzle hole.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
Originally posted by Patrick: If buying a locking gas cap for your Fiero, make sure to get a non-vented one (if there's a choice). <snip>
All cars w/ EVAP systems use "Non-vented" gas caps.
They allow air in to the tank to prevent FP and weather causing high tank vacuum. Because EVAP vents often have very tiny holes etc and may not keep up w/ air flow demands. Tanks can take a lot of pressure but hate vacuum.
Vented Gas caps is for Pre ~ 1975 cars that had no EVAP systems to control vapor release to the air. Trucks may use them until the 80's to 90's.
Small Engines, Boats, and farm/construction equipment often still have Vented tanks or caps.
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 03-07-2022).]
Vented Gas caps is for Pre ~ 1975 cars that had no EVAP systems to control vapor release to the air.
Yes, this is what I've understood for years... which doesn't help explain why all the Fiero gas caps at my supplied link are listed as "Vented".
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Originally posted by Patrick:
Out of curiosity, I had a look to see what locking gas caps might be available at RockAuto. I was more than a bit surprised to see that all the caps (both locking and regular) are listed as Vented.
I take it then that these caps allow venting into the tank, yet do not allow venting out to the atmosphere.
Originally posted by skywurz: 100% agree A lot of lockout kits come with a gas cap rake. You can buy them for less than$5. They are super effective and 0 skills to use.
Yup, Those came w/ lockout kits for tow trucks etc in Decades past. If cops etc catch you caring any part of these kits outside of business reasons can be big trouble in areas actually bothered. (Slim Jims etc are covered in "Burglary Tools" in many places and just carrying can be a crime.) Now can get from Ebay and others that sell many types of illegal and counterfeit crap.
I never bothered to use them. Many times having 1 or 2 actual keys works in many lock caps.
You think many have lock cap keys connected to car keys but many don't. Many have more car key copies (because often have 3+ people using the vehicle) and put cap key somewhere else then loose them.
As to Bandit Blocker... The "pictures" are misleading showing a simple tube.
Some know nearly all Fill ports have Vents tubes along the side of the big tube and join the big tube at the top. Most are hidden inside the small nozzle hole and "door" and can be hard to see. "Worse" many like Fiero have some kind of baffle in the big tube to make the vent "breath" properly even when the nozzle isn't pushed in fully and gas flows.
I just looked at my car now to check. In Fiero and likely many others you have to push in the "spring" way down the fill tube to clear that baffle so it won't cause problems for any pump nozzles. Many Nozzles barely fit the hole and clear the baffle on Fiero....
You can see the top end of the baffle after you push the "door" open. The door actually hits the baffle at the top. Borescope may help to see more but don't bother to use one.
You likely need a very long screwdriver to install this. Maybe possible to use such a tool as doesn't bend tight at the top but I only had a ~ 12" Thin straight blade to "test." Went all the way to the handle easy.
But I don't think most w/ siphon will be able to use on Fiero because of above. I don't have a Fiero fill tube out to measure but after 3 to 4 Feet steel and hose and some bends plus 90° final bend most siphons won't get to the tank. Many examples in the Bandit Blocker site video and others won't even be long to reach Fiero gas tank.
Is Why many are told to run the FP to empty the Fiero tank for sender and other problem for dropping the tank. (When done, Do Not let FP to run dry!)
Some New cars may have anti-siphon features so check this before buying anything. Other vehicles have same "problem" as Fiero w/ long fill port, too many bends or tight radius bends... (People that uses "Snakes" for plumbing electric etc have often seen similar issues should know what I mean...)
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 03-07-2022).]
Originally posted by Patrick: I take it then that these caps allow venting into the tank, yet do not allow venting out to the atmosphere.
Now I'm Not sure too. Maybe we're flipping terms for some cars. I don't have gas caps for many pre 80's cars and many catalogs no longer list gas caps for them. Or might list but no accurate pictures of them. Stant book doesn't say non-vent/vent in gas caps for Fiero or anything else.
Many caps, including replacement caps for Fiero, have a Warning that maybe pushed out Gas when you open them and why I think many can get confused. Even this 80's NOS Stant cap... (BG817, G817, later 10817) On back just says: Emission Control Type
Worse, some pre-emission cars had non-vent caps because system had other vent port(s) and no air flow at the cap. Many had just 2 or 3 stamped metal parts and a gasket.
Is correct for small engines and others. Air moves in Both Directions thru the vent in the cap or in the tank.
Best part of the Fiero is where the gas tank is located. I went to a car dealer years ago when gas spiked and a bunch of his cars had holes drilled in the tanks to get at the gas.
Best part of the Fiero is where the gas tank is located. I went to a car dealer years ago when gas spiked and a bunch of his cars had holes drilled in the tanks to get at the gas.
This was a problem with the Transit vans not that long ago people would crawl under them and cut the fill hose that would apparently drain the tank. The dealership was backed up with Transits waiting for replacement filler hoses.
Honestly with the Fiero im not worried about gas theft. I could never get much out of gas tank with all of the time in the world and a really long hose. I have always had to drop the tank or at the very least jack it up and pull the filler hose.... plus my Fiero has been enjoying life in my garage :P .
A neighbor of mine who owns an auto repair shop said that he can get a locking gas cap removed in about 1 minute with a screwdriver and a pair of vice grips but I believe that the Fiero is a very hard car to siphon gas out of with a hose. I've never been able to do it
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: Best part of the Fiero is where the gas tank is located. I went to a car dealer years ago when gas spiked and a bunch of his cars had holes drilled in the tanks to get at the gas.
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Originally posted by skywurz: This was a problem with the Transit vans not that long ago people would crawl under them and cut the fill hose that would apparently drain the tank. The dealership was backed up with Transits waiting for replacement filler hoses.
There versions of...
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If they really want your fuel... many simply punch a hole in the tank and drain that way.
I posted above.
Transit and other w/ fill hose cut likely easy for siphon/pump use. Most times, the cut line itself doesn't drain the tank.
Even Diesel vehicles get holes in tanks or lines cut because often easier then trying a siphon "the normal way" even if are unlocked and easy access.
Fiero is harder then most and many other cars because of low clearance. Anything w/ better clearance is easy target for cat and/or fuel theft. Some Jeep and others have easy access to engine bay and gets battery stolen too. Many Trucks, SUVs and jeeps have very big AGM batteries that sell high as "used" batteries or as "Scrap..." Example: Police: Theft ring targeting Jeep Wrangler batteries https://6abc.com/philadelph...eft-battery/2249757/ in 2017
A neighbor of mine who owns an auto repair shop said that he can get a locking gas cap removed in about 1 minute with a screwdriver and a pair of vice grips but I believe that the Fiero is a very hard car to siphon gas out of with a hose. I've never been able to do it
Honestly, you only need a big pair of Chan-L-Loc pliers. If you squeeze the sides of the cap it will grip the inner part and unscrew. You wouldn't believe how many customers forget to leave a gas cap key when they drop their cars off for inspection.
because many newer "cars" have "rollover valve" in the filling port that act like Bandit Blocker
In Other stories across US alone, many steal gas right from station's bulk tank buried in ground Example: Massive fuel heist: Suspects steal 1,000 gallons of gas from Houston gas station | LiveNOW from FOX https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoDJJJj1Mzo
The idea of punching a Fiero tank is a bit ludicrous. Way too much work to jack it up. So siphoning is really the only threat.
Just like the catalytic converter, the Fiero would be one of the last targets a bandit would go after. Not only the location of the tank, but the capacity. On average the Fiero would have 6 gallons and max of 12. Compare that to your neighbors 20 gallon SUV. Also if you need 20 gallons, would you rather commit two crimes or one to get it? The penalty is the same if busted whether you siphoned 5, 10, or 20 gallons. Now if you need to hit 2 Fieros to get your 20 vs 1 SUV, why subject yourself to having to do the job twice and being charged with 2 counts of theft rather than 1?
I think it's rather silly to buy a locking fuel cap for your Fiero but whatever helps you sleep at night.
Yes, This site is for Fiero... BUT... A lot that read this thread HAVE other vehicles that are targets to punch the tank, cut the cat, etc. And buying Locking Gas Caps is useless for them too but a pain to the owner and others working on them.
A lot newer vehicle has "anti-rollover valve." I'm guessing Many are simple ball in cage check valves that never let siphons in and why More thieves are punch the tank. At any rate, these valve make buying locking cap a wast of money.
Ford Pinto And More had Cosmetic Caps you see all the time and they fall off or are stolen and why many had locking caps. Those caps can't be left open or easy to have rain and dirt getting in the tank even w/o others doing crap to the car and that's far before E10 problems. Web search Mavrick Pinto and other "Vintage" caps...
Jeeps have a Very Long History of Battery Theft and other engine parts stolen because of the Crap bungees holding the hood down on some models since WW2. Any with that needs to add DIY or Aftermarket hood locks.
Before remote hood latches became standard, was easy to steel batteries on most cars. Many years ago, I had a chain lock under the grill of my car because worked in big stores and many things stolen in the parking lot including car batteries. I leave nothing easy to see yet still have car broken into a few times digging thru glove box and more.
Battery Theft is often mean they cut or break other parts making to fix harder and expensive. Most places Won't repair a punch tank. Only replace them for Business Insurance reasons costing High $. Same goes w/ cat cutting, worse when they wreck/cut O2 sensor(s) and other wiring.
