The question of how many Fiero exist with engine swaps really can't be answered but it makes for some good conversation. As an owner of three Fieros with engine swaps I realize its not the norm so I will take a guess. As an attendee of Carlisle for over 20 years I can safely say that engine swaps represent a small number of the cars that I see there. If the event gets 100 cars it appears that only a small number have engine swaps. The "modified" category draws a good amount but its appears that most of the Fieros there still have stock engines. The true collector seems to want to keep their cars completely stock so I estimate the number of engine swaps perhaps 10%-15% of Fieros at the shows and probably less than that here on this forum. The answer still seems that most Fiero owners prefer stock engines. As the Fiero continues to age and the stock engines wear out will that change? I now open this thread for the observations of others.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
I’m in the process of doing a swap right now. Not a popular one, and I even debate to even do a build thread. There is a fair number of swap build threads here on PFF. But you are probably correct, that it represents a small percentage of Fieros.
Swaps are time consuming and hard work and they rarely even become daily drivers, and I know even a high percentage of swaps never get completed.
What saddens me is how many Fieros end up wrecked or in junk yards. That naturally comes with age, but there is a fraction of Fieros left in all conditions, original or otherwise.
The reason for my swap is because I plan on keeping and driving my Fiero for the long term.
I put well over 100K on my 4.9 Formula. Drove it daily, long trips, etc. Drivetrain and chassis are now sitting at about 235K, thinking I may do an install of a low mile 4.9 I have in storage. Maybe with a manual transmission this time, but the 4T60E is a great unit.
IMO its harder to tell by a poll rather than by observation. A number of 28% of Fieros with engine swaps sounds a bit high based upon what I see at Carlisle and at other shows but anything is possible. If we take into accord the 3.4L bolt in upgrade maybe so . When you look at one it looks stock.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
This picture is the engine statistics in FieroHub...
...which probably represent a very small number of Fieros. I suspect most Fiero owners have never even heard of FieroHub, let alone contributed any data.
I hazard to guess that the actual number of duke powered Fieros is far far higher than the 17.8% reported at FieroHub. IMO, those figures are worthless.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-11-2022).]
It is an estimator of truth based on only a sample of the full population.
"Estimator of truth"? This sounds like something from the O/T area of the forum.
Who's more liable to register at a specialized website for Fieros... a regular guy with a run of the mill 4-banger Fiero, or an enthusiast with a restored and/or built up Fiero?
quote
Originally posted by blyfot:
That is what statistics is used for.
Statistics can be manipulated to serve any number of purposes.
Look, I've got nothing against FieroHub. I just think it's a stretch to believe that FieroHub registrations represent real-world Fiero numbers in any way, shape or form.
Problem for FieroHub is not the sample size (number of registered cars), but rather how randomized the participants are. As someone pointed out, owners of certain cars might be more likely to register aso.
Statistics in FieroHub can at least be a starting point for discussions like this imo. It should not be looked at as the conclusive answer
The question on how many Fieros have engine swaps cannot really be answered but when I go to Carlisle there can be over 100 Fieros there and the number of swaps as compared to stock is small. This info is obviously not conclusive data but it does give an idea and allows me to observe that most Fieros that I have seen have stock engines. This may agree with true collectors that believe engine swaps decrease a classic cars value. As for performance; the Fiero 2.8L was very competitive for cars of the 80's era even with the Corvette.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
I cannot specifically say how many Fieros are out there with engine swaps, but I can confirm four swaps for my four Meras. One was a turbo 3.4, one a 3800 SC Series II, one a 3800 SC Series III, and the last one (recently sold) had a fuel injected 383. I am not a purist in terms of keeping the cars OEM, but want the vehicle performance to match the looks.
Length = 32" ( from bell housing to front of engine, not including harmonic balancer. ) Width = 16" Height = 35" ( from bottom of pan to top of intake plenum. ) 4 cylinders, turbo, transverse install. 5 cylinders, turbo, transverse install. 6 cylinders, turbo, transverse install. 6 cylinders, turbo, longitudinal install. ^
Of all the engines... A Fiero engine swap never attempted, yet. GM Atlas 4.2 Inline 6,5, or 4 cylinders, what will it be, man ? ... Number of inline six Fieros = None, be the first, start getting lined up. Gee, all those junkyard inlines seeking Fieros for serious relationships.
The Atlas engine is a beast, but it's also huge, at least as a six holer. Bottom line is there's just not room to do a transverse install of a six-in-a-row. The 4 cylinder is probably do-able, but the Ecotec has kind of stolen its thunder, by now.
Me? I've got a 4.9 swapped Fiero that I'd pretty much drive anywhere. Also about to start on an LQ1, 3.4 DOHC, in a different car, unless something else catches my eye, first.
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 05-17-2022).]
Impressive! Looks like they found the fuse. *Spoiler... One rod broke, and added symmetrical inspection ports to the block. Three other rods bent. I never would have thought they'd get 800 HP. I would have guessed 600 or so.
Still don't think it will fit, in any sort of practical manner.
I own 2 swaps currently, and sold a 4.9 swapped '84 in 2009 which is still being driven (has over 105k miles on the swap now without major repair). I also sold a 3800 swap '86 but I do not believe it's 'alive' today, I'm almost certain the young man totaled it.
Our WhatsApp Nova Scotia Fiero group has as many swapped cars as ones with original motors - unless you count the dead rusty hulks that will never be on the road again. Jus sayin
------------------ Astronomy says we will find a coded signal from outer space. Then we'll KNOW that life exists there, for coded signals aren't by chance.
Biology says there are coded genetic signals in every cell, but we KNOW that no intelligence created life.
I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 3800SC, 4-wheel drifts are fun!
Here is a question; What qualifies as a swap? Different engines obviously, but what if you swap in another L44? And then, to cut it really fine, what about the F-body 3.4 long-block swap? Is that an "engine swap"...?
Here is a question; What qualifies as a swap? Different engines obviously, but what if you swap in another L44? And then, to cut it really fine, what about the F-body 3.4 long-block swap? Is that an "engine swap"...?
My view is that a "swap" is putting in any engine that was not offered from the factory for that year of that car. Like Dennis also earlier mentioned the 3.4L bolt in "upgrade". That's a swap. In your quote you clarified with "F-Body 3.4....". Once you specify what other model/platform the engine came out of, it's a swap. And yes, if someone put a V6 Fiero engine into their '84 or '85, I would still call that a swap.
[This message has been edited by Trinten (edited 05-25-2022).]
Aside from the curiosity of how many are left from a 5 year model run three decades later, and of those left how many still have the stock engine behind the seats there will be more who want to split the hair finer. How many V8s and of those V8s how many are 4.9s, small blocks, LS3, Northstars of those V8s how many are NA and how many are turbos and how many are now supercharged....Its a wonderful thing that Fieros are still evolving to engines that are coming into availability while other engines are starting to become scarce. How many 2.8 engines are available versus 3.4s? I'm having a 3.4 being put in finally but finding a 3.4 was startlingly difficult. Even finding the 2.8s may become harder. Which means that engines will become far more radical for replacements. In the smog regulated states this will become more of a challenge. Hiding a 3.4 in 2.8 clothing is easier than "hiding" a 3.8 SC from a smog inspector. It sounds like it might get easier to smog a 3.8 SC in California but there is a lot of work to get it done and done well. I can see why most want to stay stock. There are no consistent engine swaps, everyone has different ways of solving problems with engines whose harness have to conform to a 30 year old chassis. Why throw the dice unless you absolutely know the mechanic that build it and trust their conversions. This may be the reason why the swaps are not as high as one would think.
Originally posted by cvxjet: Here is a question; What qualifies as a swap? Different engines obviously, but what if you swap in another L44? And then, to cut it really fine, what about the F-body 3.4 long-block swap? Is that an "engine swap"...?
quote
Originally posted by Trinten: My view is that a "swap" is putting in any engine that was not offered from the factory for that year of that car. Like Dennis also earlier mentioned the 3.4L bolt in "upgrade". That's a swap. In your quote you clarified with "F-Body 3.4....". Once you specify what other model/platform the engine came out of, it's a swap. And yes, if someone put a V6 Fiero engine into their '84 or '85, I would still call that a swap.
I'd draw the line where custom coolant, throttle, fuel lines, and mounts (even if just the dogbone) have to be fabricated.
FYI, 85 Fieros came with V6s.
[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 05-25-2022).]
This sounds like something from the O/T area of the forum. 
Three other rods bent. 
