I've been steadily working on going through the Fiero, mostly for rust prevention and full suspension restoration among other things.
Originally an Iron Duke and 5-speed, but I pulled the motor out and donated it. My plans are to convert to EV. I've had plans to prep and plan for the usual EV conversion motors, such as the AC-50, Warp 9 then really was going to pull the trigger for a Hyper9.
COVID made it sort of difficult to source a few things, but glad it did, because I got my hands on something even better. A Nissan Leaf EM-57 full stack (motor, gearbox, inverter, PDM - charger, dc/dc converter, bms). 147 HP and 200 ft/lb of torque.
Currently just doing some fine tune measurements to mount it on the cradle, doing some cv axle work, a lot of reading and watching those who do conversion projects, and trying to source a reasonable priced Leaf battery pack (they get snapped up fast for green energy home projects).
I originally planned to keep the 5-speed, because of the earlier motor choices would mate to it. With the Leaf gearbox, that has changed. I'll now sadly do a 5-speed delete and utilize the single gear box on the Leaf stack.
The full stack weighs about 200lbs less than the Duke and Izusu trans combo, so there is a bit of weight savings, but the batteries will subtract that weight savings.
But it's coming together. I'll use this thread to document the process.
[This message has been edited by Wichita (edited 05-21-2022).]
Good luck with the project! I hope you don't run into the problem with the batteries the early Leaf vehicles had which was / is early failure rate causing a lack of usable range.
Good luck with the project! I hope you don't run into the problem with the batteries the early Leaf vehicles had which was / is early failure rate causing a lack of usable range.
That is the weird thing. Nissan didn't liquid cool their batteries, but they did liquid cool the motor and inverter, which is a very good thing.
I know they did a bit of redesign after the first two years (11-12) Gen-1 Leafs.
I haven't fully settled if I'll be using the Leaf battery pack or find some Tesla battery packs. Still tinkering with design, space and weight distribution for that on the Fiero.
I hope when you start working on this you do a build post. I'd love to follow along. If I slack too much on my LNF swap, I'd love to do an EV conversion.
I've actually done a cradle fit with the motor right now.
I'm using the existing Leaf motor mounts instead of modifying the existing Fiero ones. The Leaf has three, two up front on their side and one in the center rear. It's in a triangle shape.
I used the axle centerline of the Fiero as my prime meridian to start with the motor fit to the cradle. I have no idea how much time I spent measuring and remeasuring and checking and measuring, but using the Leaf motor assembly (has gear reducer attached... single speed transmission) axle centerline I was able to find the deadnuts on axle centerline from the Leaf to the Fiero.
Had a few things weirdly and coincidentally was a measurement match on the cradle. There is a tooling hole on the forward crossbeam on the passenger side of the cradle and from that tooling hole to one of the slotted forward transmission mount holes on the driver side was the exact dimensions from the Leaf's forward holes of the motor mount from left to right. This put the Leaf motor dead even in the middle of the cradle. The aft holes of the forward motor mounts line up to the cradle driver/passenger side cross members and it is in the forward slot of the a-arm, so there is no interference and nothing to do but drill a mounting hole in those locations.
I have a lot more to explain and more that I have done, but I should start uploading pictures of what I'm doing, before going on. But it is coming together very well. I have successfully already mounted the leaf motor on the cradle. I took it back off just to do a bit of painting and undercoating to it. I will reinstall it back up this weekend.
[This message has been edited by Wichita (edited 06-02-2022).]
Interesting project. I'm sure that many are following this thread and your progress, In the past several guys have converted Fieros to electric power but few had any range better than about 25 miles. If you could achieve a 100 mile range that would really be good but another item to address may be the HVAC system.
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Interesting project. I'm sure that many are following this thread and your progress, In the past several guys have converted Fieros to electric power but few had any range better than about 25 miles. If you could achieve a 100 mile range that would really be good but another item to address may be the HVAC system.
It's easy to achieve heat with a small ceramic heater. AC can be a challenge, but I'm a bit lucky. Because this Leaf stack has the electric AC compressor on it. Connecting it with the existing Fiero AC lines, pin out (wiring) to control it will be a challenge, but I believe achievable.
[This message has been edited by Wichita (edited 06-03-2022).]
The following are some of the preprep motor mount work that I have documented.
This shows a top down view. You can see the brass colored steel rivnut. That is where a tooling hole was. I used that for one of the motor mount tabs. This is on the passenger side.
I used an existing transmission mount hole for the driver side.
For the aft holes for the motor mount, I had to drill a hole at these locations. (No worries, they are deburred, smoothed out and painted now)
I did have a challenge on what to do for the passenger side forward mount, because of the hump and would be difficult to mount something flush, but I found a solution.
For the rear mount, I had to come up with a mounting plate.
With the motor mounts installed, taking a level measurement from top surface of the mount tabs (not bolt head), it came out straight leveled.
[This message has been edited by Wichita (edited 09-09-2022).]
This is the rear. The plate takes advantage of much flat surface of the cradle. I do have it bolted to the cradle using existing tooling hole locations.
My welding skills aren't the best, but did a bit of tack welding for a bit of security.
From the mounting tabs of the forward motor mounts to the rear mounting plate, it came out leveled.
[This message has been edited by Wichita (edited 06-03-2022).]
My next challenge was to make sure this rear mount wouldn't hit the trunk wall.
This is a straight board over the center holes of the rear cradle mounts.
Side view
Close up
Sort of a rear side angle view
After a lot of careful measurements on the Fiero, even though the rear mount is about 4cm higher than the top of the cradle mounts, but what I could measure is about 5cm before it would make contact. Plus the motor mount is round and forward, it will clear and not touch the trunk wall.
No worries about the motor. The rear mount on the engine sticks forward around 6". The motor stack will clear everything in the rear wall of the Fiero.
any update. Definatly looking at this option as i am in commiefornia and i plan on keeping my first car my fiero. owned it since 96.
Yes there are updates. I'll take some progress update photos today and post them here this weekend.
Just now I'm slapping myself that I didn't, which I thought I did, appear to have photos of the CV axle shafts before I assembled them. But the machine shop that cut and resplined the axles did a fabulous job on matching the Nissan splines.
What I ended up doing on the axles is that I used two passenger side Fiero OEM manual axles because of length and also the diameter of the manual axles are a hair bit larger than the Nissan axles, making it possible for it to be resplined. So it is Fiero outer and Nissan Leaf inner.
I already had one passenger axle, because my Fiero is a manual and I was lucky to find another one that was OEM original at a local salvage yard.
I'm going to redo the Nissan CV boot clamps this weekend as the boot kit came with the band type that I'm not really happy about when I installed them with this cheap crank tool thing I had to use. So I ordered the ear type that matches the Fiero side of the CV joint. The Fiero boot kit came with the ear 'pinch' CV clamps and it just appears to be a more secured type to me than the other one, and maybe I kind of really just want them to match more than anything.
But I'll take some pictures of the progress and show the Nissan axles vs Fiero axles (I'll use the driver 'short' axle side as reference since it disassembled) comparison.
[This message has been edited by Wichita (edited 09-09-2022).]
Passenger side CV axles are done and install. Waiting for new CV bands to redo the driver side. But it should be soon.
After I get the other CV in, it's basically all mechanically complete. Wiring is the next step.
Been doing a lot of interior work and cleanup. 5-speed cables and gear selector has been removed. This helps me plan the next step in ECM, electric gear selector and etc. Good times.
[This message has been edited by Wichita (edited 09-17-2022).]
What a cool project. Stupid question: will you put the batteries in the tunnel?
That I don't know. I have thought about utilizing that space. It's not enough space to fit all the batteries, but thought about splitting the gas tank in half and finding out.
If anything to distribute the weight between front and back to keep it as 50/50 and centered mass as I can.
Leafs are worth more dead than alive. So you should really consider buying a used or totaled car vs trying to buy the cells. When you do the math and multiply the cells you'll get from a complete car vs the price of parted out packs, it will cost more than the car, so even if you're not trying to fit all of the cells in the Fiero, you can sell the extras and part out the rest of the car.
Leafs are worth more dead than alive. So you should really consider buying a used or totaled car vs trying to buy the cells. When you do the math and multiply the cells you'll get from a complete car vs the price of parted out packs, it will cost more than the car, so even if you're not trying to fit all of the cells in the Fiero, you can sell the extras and part out the rest of the car.
I can completely understand. The battery packs for the Nissan Leafs either get swiped very fast, mostly from off-grid people using them for solar powerwalls, or the wreckers want stupid money for them.
I have seen EV conversion Youtubers, do just what you suggest and buy a complete Leaf from the wrecker before it is parted out, so they have at least all the components.
Weirdly, the motor stack you can get for reasonable price at the wrecker. It's really just the damn battery pack that are hard to come by.
Right, the value in the leaf is definitely in the batteries. I'm curious what kind of performance you'll get out of the motor on an aftermarket controller. The leaf isn't bad at low speeds, a little gutless at highways speeds. But what's really dumb is they detuned the controller and there's more to be had. Nissan has a nismo tune they don't offer in the United States that is not only more fun but gets better efficiency when driven economically.
If I was you, I'd start watching copart.com for leafs, anything in the "runs and drives" category should have usiable batteries, still possibly damaged but that should be easy to verify if you can make it to the yard to take a look.
I never understood the single speed gear boxes on electric vehicles. Wouldn't it be more efficient with more gears? What is the difference in power draw at lower RPM compared to higher RPM? So far what I see they are more concerned with performance. But if the electric motor has a sweet spot for power consumption wouldn't it make sense to gear it and increase battery life?
I never understood the single speed gear boxes on electric vehicles. Wouldn't it be more efficient with more gears? What is the difference in power draw at lower RPM compared to higher RPM? So far what I see they are more concerned with performance. But if the electric motor has a sweet spot for power consumption wouldn't it make sense to gear it and increase battery life?
Because gearboxes introduce a lot of complexity into the equation. Electric vehicles are being marketed to us consumers as being essentially maintenance free, and a transmission would add maintenance and things that could break. Some electric cars actually do have a transmission, such as the Porsche 911 turbo S, which has a two speed. Electric cars actually make less power at higher rpm, which is why they added a transmission to that car.
However I would think you are right that it would decrease consumption by a bit, but I dont think the added complexity is worth it
[This message has been edited by Xenoblast (edited 09-25-2022).]
I never understood the single speed gear boxes on electric vehicles. Wouldn't it be more efficient with more gears? What is the difference in power draw at lower RPM compared to higher RPM? So far what I see they are more concerned with performance. But if the electric motor has a sweet spot for power consumption wouldn't it make sense to gear it and increase battery life?
Electric motors pretty much output consistent torque in the normal operating rpm range, so a multi - gear transmission isn't necessary. They also produce 100% of their torque at low speed.
Tesla's, Leafs and pretty much most EVs utilize a single speed gearbox, because all you really need is a single optimized gear reduction ratio for all your driving needs.
Electric motors pretty much output consistent torque in the normal operating rpm range, so a multi - gear transmission isn't necessary. They also produce 100% of their torque at low speed.
Tesla's, Leafs and pretty much most EVs utilize a single speed gearbox, because all you really need is a single optimized gear reduction ratio for all your driving needs.
Couple of things, Automatic transmissions are heavy and complicated. I agree with that and if that is the only option then yes a singe gear would be best. Standard transmissions that have to squeeze more gears into the same place do so by making the gears thinner and weaker. This would not be the case with an EV gear box, they would only need 3 gears at most and they could be made stronger than say a 6 speed gear box. Clutch, ok this is where I see a possible issue. It will require maintenance. But where the EV would shine is its ability to RPM match the speed of the car. There would be no need to slip the clutch, ever it would be an on/off switch. So wear would be cut way down. As the clutch material would not need to slip they could use a more aggressive compound and use a lockup to make the clutch only used for the initial gear change and not holding the full TQ of the EV motor. Power to the transmission could be regulated by only using part of the power bank to reduce consumption and stress on the transmission until the drive train is locked. Much like an automatic does now with the torque converter. An EV transmission would not have to be as complicated as an automatic transmission for a GAS car. So an electronic controlled clutch and lockup in a simpler transmission due to the control you have over the electric motor you do not have over the same gas engine.
Tesla by the way does use different gearing in some of their cars, they just do it by using different drive trains in the front and rear of the car with different gearing.
Perhaps I'm over thinking this, or under thinking. No one is paying me to investigate Looking forward to seeing your car on the road.
Couple of things, Automatic transmissions are heavy and complicated. I agree with that and if that is the only option then yes a singe gear would be best. Standard transmissions that have to squeeze more gears into the same place do so by making the gears thinner and weaker. This would not be the case with an EV gear box, they would only need 3 gears at most and they could be made stronger than say a 6 speed gear box. Clutch, ok this is where I see a possible issue. It will require maintenance. But where the EV would shine is its ability to RPM match the speed of the car. There would be no need to slip the clutch, ever it would be an on/off switch. So wear would be cut way down. As the clutch material would not need to slip they could use a more aggressive compound and use a lockup to make the clutch only used for the initial gear change and not holding the full TQ of the EV motor. Power to the transmission could be regulated by only using part of the power bank to reduce consumption and stress on the transmission until the drive train is locked. Much like an automatic does now with the torque converter. An EV transmission would not have to be as complicated as an automatic transmission for a GAS car. So an electronic controlled clutch and lockup in a simpler transmission due to the control you have over the electric motor you do not have over the same gas engine.
Tesla by the way does use different gearing in some of their cars, they just do it by using different drive trains in the front and rear of the car with different gearing.
Perhaps I'm over thinking this, or under thinking. No one is paying me to investigate Looking forward to seeing your car on the road.
This is what it looks like in the inside of a Nissan Leaf gearbox.
I think the weight, with complete housing is somewhere around 30lbs, so it isn't heavy either.
It's easy to achieve heat with a small ceramic heater. AC can be a challenge, but I'm a bit lucky. Because this Leaf stack has the electric AC compressor on it. Connecting it with the existing Fiero AC lines, pin out (wiring) to control it will be a challenge, but I believe achievable.
Let me know the year and I'll get you the wiring pinout.
Let me know the year and I'll get you the wiring pinout.
It's a 2014.
I believe I already have a wiring pinout, but if you have a resource that you can share, that would be totally awesome! You may have a better copy then I could find.
I believe I already have a wiring pinout, but if you have a resource that you can share, that would be totally awesome! You may have a better copy then I could find.
I tried to search for it but I may have only been able to find wiring diagrams but not the pinout. Which is strange, because I've been able to find the pinouts for my CTSV Recaro swap I'm executing on my Regal GS right now.
I'll try and post up the wiring diagram tonight. Do you have a heat pump or no?
