You know TDA, it occured to me when I was watching a video earlier... this prototype is *literally* built on the exact-same... identical space frame. There were no changes whatsoever to the frame, with the exception of the trunk sheet-metal. Someone with the skills needed could reproduce these panels, and we could build our own Gen-2 Fieros. Just a thought... I'd love to have one of these... the styling is amazing, and there's a few Fieros out there, still, that are so beat up, that restoring to stock just isn't worth it.
The reason you will not see a reproduction is the time and cost to do this is just too much.
Also the inability to scan or copy the original car makes it even more difficult.
Not that even GM when it preserved the GT repaired the C pillars and painted them black as it was too expensive to restore the plexi.
Also not the emblem on the bumper is not a Fiero. For some reason it has a GTA Firebird emblem. I know of three and may be 4 emblem for this car in private hands.
The coupe emblems are in the hands of a select few also.
The reason you will not see a reproduction is the time and cost to do this is just too much. ...
Over the years, I have heard dozens of comments. "If I had the funds, I'd do a repro of the prototype in a hot minute."
And those that actually have the funds, realize that there probably wouldn't be enough of a market for the repro, to even make their investment back. Or else they realize that they will need a lot more funds than they have, and then still go back to the first issue.
I love the design of the 90 GT. I also own three Fieros - all running. I'm still not sure that I'd run out and buy a repro, though.
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 04-10-2023).]
We struggle just to get scoops made for the quarter panel.
There is just not the right kind of money here to do this as a repo right.
Markets for the Cobra and Grand Sport are strong as are street rods but the Fiero is just not in that kind of demand or money. It forcsure could be done but not for anything but the love of the car and a Fiero owner with deep pockets
Also you would need to scan or pull molds and I don’t expect GM is down with that.
Hyper- I know NOW it would not make sense- but back around 1990-95 it seems like something someone could/would have done. Actually, back in the late 80s it seems like someone should have made a one-off conversion to a Aerovette.
Sadly, our cars are fading just as the mid-engine Vette actually popularizes them again....(Rarely see Fieros in the JY anymore-and then they are usually the "Collectable!!!" 84s)
Hyper- I know NOW it would not make sense- but back around 1990-95 it seems like something someone could/would have done. Actually, back in the late 80s it seems like someone should have made a one-off conversion to a Aerovette.
Sadly, our cars are fading just as the mid-engine Vette actually popularizes them again....(Rarely see Fieros in the JY anymore-and then they are usually the "Collectable!!!" 84s)
To be honest the car was shown for the first time in 1990 by John Schinella via smuggled out photos from GM at the Fiero meet at the Silver Dome.
The car was to be at the show and GM killed it being shown due to the issues internally at GM with hard feelings and also the closing of the plant on the UAW. There were many people still pissed off.
It was several years later before the car was shown in person.
GM would never have helped create a copy. To be honest we are lucky they saved this car.
Today scanning could make it easier to recreate but the cost is more. Then anyone who would be interested in doing it would pay.
Same on the Vette as while there may be more interested the cost would still be very high and difficult.
As for Fieros as to how many are around it is a matter of where you are at. Here in the mid West they may not be as common but they are still seen regularly.
To be honest the interest in the Fiero today has been on a good rebound as we are no longer that crappy car that catches fire. The public is now seeing them in a good light and values for good cars are as high as ever.
To be honest the fiero is only going to improve in the public eye and to the credit of the new Vette it has helped put the spot light on it again.
Now I am a Vette owner I have found in the past and more so now most Vette owners are Fiero fans. Most either had, want or still own on.
We struggle just to get scoops made for the quarter panel. ...
True. Every word of it.
quote
Originally posted by hyperv6: ... GM would never have helped create a copy. To be honest we are lucky they saved this car.
Today scanning could make it easier to recreate but the cost is more. Then anyone who would be interested in doing it would pay.
Same on the Vette as while there may be more interested the cost would still be very high and difficult. ... To be honest the fiero is only going to improve in the public eye and to the credit of the new Vette it has helped put the spot light on it again.
Now I am a Vette owner I have found in the past and more so now most Vette owners are Fiero fans. Most either had, want or still own on.
Seeing all the Trans Am knockoffs that people have been building on Camaro platforms, I'm still a bit surprised that nobody is "improvising" a latter day Fiero on the C8 platform. You wouldn't even need to cobble up a complete Corvette. A space frame with suspension, and maybe some interior pieces would provide a good place to start. Just a basic platform. In the spirit of the original Fiero, the car could be optioned with the 2.7 Ecotec turbo or the 4.3 LT V6. Maybe even the 3.6.
I used to joke about this, but I'm not really joking any more. If it were cheaper than a Corvette, I might even buy one. I'll bet others would, too.
Seeing all the Trans Am knockoffs that people have been building on Camaro platforms, I'm still a bit surprised that nobody is "improvising" a latter day Fiero on the C8 platform. You wouldn't even need to cobble up a complete Corvette. A space frame with suspension, and maybe some interior pieces would provide a good place to start. Just a basic platform. In the spirit of the original Fiero, the car could be optioned with the 2.7 Ecotec turbo or the 4.3 LT V6. Maybe even the 3.6.
I used to joke about this, but I'm not really joking any more. If it were cheaper than a Corvette, I might even buy one. I'll bet others would, too.
The problem is these Trans Am knock offs are crap. They are just modified Camaro platforms that they charge you 2x or 3x as much. If you note most fail after only a couple are built. As long as you can go out and buy the real thing for less no one in their right mind would buy a modified Camaro at 3 x the cost.
I rather doubt anyone will be converting a C8 into a Fiero any time soon. With resale off the charts and demand high it would only hurt the cars value. They are just worth much more being a Corvette.
Not many Ferraris were converted to a Fiero either. Though I have seen a couple 308's with 2.8 V6 engines.
Cadillac was way ahead of Corvette. The C8 platform would be ideal for Cadillac to resurrect their mid-engine CIEN that never went into production.
Here is the problem. Corvette always gets the most power.
Cadillac would have been a more expensive slower version of the Corvette. We did that once already. Why pay more for a car that is the same but less power?
Cadillac should have a RWD roadster with a trunk. They are not a race division. Even their race cars are Chevy powered.
The CIEN was a very nice concept back in the day. For me, personally...the car was somewhat too "boxy" for what it was. The C6 was a really nice sharp looking car. Once the ZR1 came to production, the body trim lines were shared after the 2009 ZR1 model. That was an instant hit, and great add on option. When you see the car in person, the look of the car is totally not the same feeling than photos.
I always believed that the fiero will always remain an American classic. Purists will know that the 88 models are the best produced cars after so many improvements. After, the 86-87GT are the other sought of fiero after the 88s.
The CIEN was a very nice concept back in the day. For me, personally...the car was somewhat too "boxy"
I liked the "sharp edges" of the design, but then I've always liked Lamborghini styling over Ferrari too. It still would have been an awesome car. It's in the movie The Island (not as below though).
[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 04-18-2023).]
Fiero rebody... Northstar Hot-Vee Twin-Turbo. AWD, six speed 6T80. Could be fun to build, not exactly as shown, custom parts not available, some assembly required, batteries not included.
Could maybe sell ten off, for the discriminating Fiero enthusiast.
[This message has been edited by Valkrie9 (edited 04-19-2023).]
I read that much of the styling of the 1990 Fiero was used on the Firebird. IMO the 86-88 Fiero GT's have smoother lines than the prototype especially on the rear facia and taillights. What I really like about the proposed 1990 Fiero is the better dashboard styling.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Is it just me or does the 2nd gen Fiero lines appear in the 94-95 Firebird & Camaro?
No what happened was the GM 80 f body was canceled. This led to the Fiero being canceled.
They took the 1990 Fiero styling and transferred it to the new Fbody. John Schinella stated at the Fiero meet the 1990 was first shown in photos that the design was too good to throw away.
The dash gauge panel design was also used neatly in tact from the Fiero design. It was in dash vs pod but the dash face was the same.
Joh Cafaro the Fiero designer was involved on both. John also was the lead designer on the C5 corvette and one version had traits of the Fieo 1990 coupe.
Here is the Coupe that has a similar black tail,light treatment as the Corvette.
Here is the Camaro and 1990 showing similar lines.
The C5 interior also was done by Jon Albert from the Fiero program.
Good ideas never fie they just end up on other cars.
It kind of makes sense that I've had multiple Fieros, 4th Gen Fbodies, and c5s. The 98-02 Trans Am WS6 is probably my all time favorite car styling wise
It kind of makes sense that I've had multiple Fieros, 4th Gen Fbodies, and c5s. The 98-02 Trans Am WS6 is probably my all time favorite car styling wise
I just bought a C5 and finding many Fiero like things about the car. Then reading the book about it I find many of the same names working on it.
The Corvette help kill the Fiero but to save itself they used many Fiero ideas. They also used Fiero designers.
I just bought a C5 and finding many Fiero like things about the car. Then reading the book about it I find many of the same names working on it.
The Corvette help kill the Fiero but to save itself they used many Fiero ideas. They also used Fiero designers.
I've watched a few videos on people rebuilding wrecked c8s and there are a ton of things on it that remind me of the Fiero, it's almost like if the 2nd gen Fiero would have got a 3400tdc, and then a 3rd gen with an ls4, it would have ended up like the c8. There were rumors about a turbo 4 or v6 c8, that would have basically been a modern Fiero GT. I don't think it's going to happen though unless it gets paired with the eray front electric motor.
I've watched a few videos on people rebuilding wrecked c8s and there are a ton of things on it that remind me of the Fiero, it's almost like if the 2nd gen Fiero would have got a 3400tdc, and then a 3rd gen with an ls4, it would have ended up like the c8. There were rumors about a turbo 4 or v6 c8, that would have basically been a modern Fiero GT. I don't think it's going to happen though unless it gets paired with the eray front electric motor.
The had wanted a V8 but it would never have happened as Chevy would never let if happen.
The C8 an C9 will only be V8 powered there are no Plans for 4 or V6.
The e ray electric drive is only for performance as it save the front complex driveline and weight.
The Fiero and C8 are mid engine and spaced framed but The similarities shop there.
Remember how C&D complained (Bitterly) about how "Overweight" the Fiero was? The new C8 weighs 3600....the new Z06 with the Four-cam V8 weighs 3700...and the new E-ray weighs 4000.....So are they shooting for 5000 lbs, next?
The weight distribution is bad also; 40% front, 60% rear...(Like a 911) The biggest contributor to this situation is the dual-clutch trany...it weighs (Are you sitting down?) THREE HUNDRED & FIFTY lbs!
Just adding a manual trans version would drop the weight by 200 lbs, and also change the weight dist' to 43/57....But nobody knows how to stir gears anymore.....
Remember how C&D complained (Bitterly) about how "Overweight" the Fiero was? The new C8 weighs 3600....the new Z06 with the Four-cam V8 weighs 3700...and the new E-ray weighs 4000.....So are they shooting for 5000 lbs, next?
The weight distribution is bad also; 40% front, 60% rear...(Like a 911) The biggest contributor to this situation is the dual-clutch trany...it weighs (Are you sitting down?) THREE HUNDRED & FIFTY lbs!
Just adding a manual trans version would drop the weight by 200 lbs, and also change the weight dist' to 43/57....But nobody knows how to stir gears anymore.....
Actually there is more to this.
50/50 is only part of it. The main mass is still more centered in the car than a 911. Polar mass centered and low mean more than 50/50. The 911 puts that weight as far back as possible.
As for C8 weight. Regulations are different today and you just can’t equally compare as a Fiero built today would be over 3200 pound.
The auto also is in the car due to the back bone chassis. It is a major part of the platform stiffness.
The backbone was perfected in the C5 and has been improved since. I can say with first hand knowledge the chassis is stiffer than the Fiero as well many cars built today. It is needed for crash standards and it is the key to great handling as a stiff chassis is the foundation.
Yes less drive manuals and the added cost was a consideration but many other factors were in play. Also emissions play a role. Besides the Auto is faster today.
As for the Eray if it was mechanical for the front drive it would be expensive, complicated and heavier. It also would take at mIn 150 hp to drive it.
The bottom line here is with the rules , regs and cost challenges they have a respectable weight for a car built today. Sure more carbon could make it under 3000 but the price would be 5 times more.
When comparing car iy need to be treated like history and the context of the time be the judge not todays standards.
No doubt an inkling of the Fiero's design roots, way back. Retro carbon body panels for the resurrection of Fiero chassis. Modified to include the pop up headlamps, naturally.
The had wanted a V8 but it would never have happened as Chevy would never let if happen.
The C8 an C9 will only be V8 powered there are no Plans for 4 or V6.
The e ray electric drive is only for performance as it save the front complex driveline and weight.
The Fiero and C8 are mid engine and spaced framed but The similarities shop there.
If the 2nd gen would have came out with 200hp in the 3400 and actually sold (I bet it wouldn't have sold very well tbh) they may have allowed an ls4/4t65e in a 3rd gen.
I've seen the engine sheets for the c8, there won't be anything less then a v8, but there were a ton of rumors about an eco model before it actually came out. You're right, the c9 probably won't get anything less either, I bet there isn't much of a market for a less powerful Corvette. I doubt that a v6 or turbo 4 would be much cheaper than the standard lt2 either.
The Fiero and C8 are 40 years apart, of course they are different, also the Fiero was a commuter car and the Corvette is GM's flagship sportscar. The parts that feel familiar are the frame designs and how the trunk is set up, I guess there are only so many ways to design this stuff, so other mid engine cars may look similar underneath too. The c8s cooling system with the bleeders in the front would have been a nice addition to the Fiero.
