I purchased a 86 Fiero gt in mint condition, just had odds and ends to finish and didn’t run electrical issues - from a guys wife that he passed away . The only clue I had to what it was is that it had a historical plate . And there was a date and a signature intials on the inside of the hood - I fixed it up and took it to its first cruise in show at Gilmore’s museum , I had the engine bay open and a member of Gilmore’s walked by and saw it and told me a interesting story - he claimed that in 86 him and his wife were touring the Fiero plant and there was a guy inspecting the finished cars and installing fireproof wraps then dating and intimating the hood , 2 guys heroahi the designer and also who he claimed to be the primal designer John deloreon . This was the man that stood infornt of him - they went out to lunch and he picked his brain and he claimed john said they squashed the original design because gm was afariad it would compete with the corvette and hurt corvette sales , and he was getting paid to come back and inspect as a contractor in 86 . Now the Gilmore’s guy claimed that my car was number 15 that he knew of that was in existence that was inspected by john deloreon, so how would I find out if there is any solid truth to this story to prove if this car is really number 15 ?
LOL was just going to say this. He was long gone. Also the Fiero wasn't cancelled in 86
You are correct he did leave , in the post I put up , you will read deloreon was in Pontiac in 86 as a contractor not a employee to inspect the fire protection and install . According to the man at Gilmore’s museum ( who was the and talked to him and had lunch with him ) this is solid , the question that I had would be on how to get this authencated . There are appently 50 of these cars out there according to Gilmore’s museum that were inspected but it is unknown how many out of the 50 were inspected by deloreon , according to Gilmore’s museum this would be number 15 that is known
One of the factory assembly line workers just confirmed that Delorean had been on the floor inspecting certain cars. He is not sure what Delorean was brought in for but he was there “inspecting” something or some things.
One of the factory assembly line workers just confirmed that Delorean had been on the floor inspecting certain cars. He is not sure what Delorean was brought in for but he was there “inspecting” something or some things.
Thank you , these are the kind of answers I am looking for , I’ve been getting discouraged and disappointed in some of the comments - thank you for your input
One of the factory assembly line workers just confirmed that Delorean had been on the floor inspecting certain cars. He is not sure what Delorean was brought in for but he was there “inspecting” something or some things.
Thank you for your input , and this is the kind of answers I am looking for , I was getting dicoraged and disinterested in some of the answers I have been receiving - thank you
https://youtube.com/shorts/...SDgLpU?feature=share This was at a show in car show at Martin mi I took my car to and a video a spectator took , you can clearly see the signature and date on the trunk lid
I'm assuming you came here because you think somehow if this story is true that your Fiero will be worth more. Hate to break it to you but regardless of whether DeLorean signed it or not, I doubt anyone will pay any extra for the car. DeLorean had nothing to do with the Fiero so why would a Fiero owner care if DeLorean signed it? It would be like me seeing Jay Leno at a car show where I was showing my car and asking him to sign the decklid. Ok so does that make my Fiero more valuable? Probably not. Perhaps if DeLorean signed a DeLorean it might matter.
So anyway, what are you trying to get from proving this story to be true? Do you think all of a sudden it's worth $2000 more or something from his signature (Assuming he did sign it)?
You are correct he did leave , in the post I put up , you will read deloreon was in Pontiac in 86 as a contractor not a employee to inspect the fire protection and install . According to the man at Gilmore’s museum ( who was the and talked to him and had lunch with him ) this is solid , the question that I had would be on how to get this authencated . There are appently 50 of these cars out there according to Gilmore’s museum that were inspected but it is unknown how many out of the 50 were inspected by deloreon , according to Gilmore’s museum this would be number 15 that is known
Welcome to Pennocks! I see that you're new, so I want to make sure you know we absolutely welcome you here, even if people are giving you a hard time.
I know that Delorean had a huge impact on the Fiero. The Fiero project absolutely pre-dated 1984 and had been in the works with GM for almost a decade. His influence on the car is absolute. Hulki of course designed it, but the general layout likely originally came from Delorean based on what I've read.
I'd never heard about the inspection though... I don't know what fire wrap they put on Fieros, mostly they simply just removed things (like the weatherstripping, etc.). My guess is that I'd prod the guy at Gilmore's museum a little bit more. This is a first heard for me, and while I don't claim to be an expert in Fieros, I've been working on them for about 20 years and hadn't heard anything about Delorean being on the factory floor during that time. Doesn't mean it didn't happen though!
quote
Originally posted by Air_johnson22:
https://youtube.com/shorts/...SDgLpU?feature=share This was at a show in car show at Martin mi I took my car to and a video a spectator took , you can clearly see the signature and date on the trunk lid
Just wanted to add to this... I'm not sure that the signature represents what you might be implying. Back in the day, a lot of mechanics would write the date / time that the car was serviced. Most people didn't carry a service book in their car, and this kind of concept is what resulted in the sticker going in the upper left corner of the windshield. People have been doing this for ages, and it's also a very common thing in watch repair. I have an odd hobby of renovating / restoring Swiss watches, and when you open them up, you'll see a lot of jewelers will do that exact same thing on the inside (etched) stating the date / time, and their initials. Basically means the watch was disassembled, cleaned, and re-assembled.
I wouldn't think too much into it.
If I didn't know any better though, I'd think you were looking to start a new creepypasta like the whole Polybius story...
[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 06-01-2023).]
I have been a life long fan of John D. I have followed his path good and bad over the years and I hate to rain on the parade here but John was not randomly inspecting Fieros.
#1 he spent late 85-86 defending himself on fraud charges. His main focus was to keep out of jail
#2 If John had showed up at a GM plant the news would have been all over on this. There were many watching him in this post DMC period and his presents at GM would have made the front page. Also no a plant full of people would never have kept quiet this long.
#3 John wrote a book in 79 called On a Clear Day You Can See GM. He burned many at GM and GM for the way they treated him and their practices. After that book he was not welcome to any GM functions let alone plants.
Johns only tie to the Fiero is his dream to build a 2 seat sports car that he attempted at Pontiac several times. First with the Banshee both still exist today and are accepted as inspiration for the C3. He was told no and to destroy the cars but the designers hid them at the tech center.
John also pushed to make their version of the Firebird a 2 seater. It was also rejected and the 67-68 cars were not that different from the Camaro because of the late start. He did put bigger engines in and lowered the cars over the Camaro.
There even was a rotary as in air plane type air cooled 4 cylinder that was tested but in went no where. John moved on in late 69 to Chevy and his connection to Pontiac ended there.
The Fiero itself was inspired by the plans drawn up at the tech center at GM by their advanced tech group.
This car was offered to Chevy as a Transverse V8 with a small space frame. The original intent was a Wankle engine but GM killed it.
Then the car later was down sized and offered to Chevy as a V6 Corvette and again it was rejected by the Corvette team. Then Hulki came alone in 1977-78 looking for a way to lower the cowl of a small sports car. Someone at the Tech Center offer the rejected Corvette design. You have to remember at this time GM was planning to kill the V8 so hence he V6 Corvette idea. Covette team engineers later played with two 2.8 V6 engines to replace the V8 but it never got past the Mule state and that car is still around with one engine in front and one in the rear.
Anyways back to Hulki. He saw the idea as a solution for the lower cowl on the car by moving he engine to the back. So he took the idea and ran with it. The details of how much of the original design is not disclosed but the head of their Corvette team clearly points out the origin of the Fiero in his book Inside the Corvette.
Now John did have a number of old engineers on the Fiero program as many of them came to Pontiac and worked for him in the 60's. The Fiero was kind of their last rebellion as the Pontiac engineers were rules breakers due to John. Many retired after the Fiero. Hulki left around the time the first one was built.
The real reason for the killing of the Fiero was the Corvette people. The C4 was not doing well and the coming GT was a threat to lost sales on top of the already poor sales. It got to the point as GM was really broke then that the Corvette was killed. Yes they were ordered to stop work on the C5. The Book All Corvettes are Red is a very detailed history of the Corvette dying and coming back. They hid the program outside GM at another engineering firm,. Sound much like the Fiero. It should a number of people on the C5 program were Fiero people. The C5 actually lived many things from the Fiero in design and some engineering. The body is a bolt on just like the Fiero.
What happened to kill the Fiero was this. Yes the Fires and publicity hurt but the fact was the GM 80 program was set to move into the Fiero plant and offset the 250,000 capacity the plant had. The Fiero was never going to sell at the rate it started. In fact it hurt the car as most 2 seat cars sell less than 20K units a year at best most sell under 10K.
Thee GM 80 was a FWD AWD model and no one liked it so they ran cost up and killed the car. This key the F body alive.
This left the Pontiac plant with no car to share with the Fiero as the GM 80 was a space frame plastic body car similar to the Fiero.
The Chevy people pointed out the under capacity plant and showed it was not profitable. This led two the killing of the Fiero. Chevy sold more cars so they got more power over GM plans.
At this point John Shinella saved the Fiero styling and adapted the styling to the new F body car that is why it looks similar to the 1990. The people from the C5 still had to fight to get the car to market in 97 years late.
That is the readers digest version of the Fiero and John D.
John did admire the car as it is what he always wanted to do but he had no real contact with he car ever. The 80's were a very tough time for him. He finally got his feet on the ground. He was broke, divorced and fighting to keep out of jail here in the states and England. He said his ego go the best of him and said he was sorry for all those he hurt. He became a Christian and tried to live out the later days talking about his Pontiac days and trying to start a watch company.
This is just another reason we need a book or a well established site to post the true story of the Fiero as so many people try to add their own version of the history and there are still many parts that the Fiero people do not really understand that are even more interesting.
We all heard the fake Lotus suspension crap. The truth is the 88 suspension was designed by GM but Porsche engineering was brought in to help tune the on center feel and turn in. This is why the turbo Porsche Eater Fieros lost their Porsche Eater tail lamps in 1985.
GM was also playing with the plastic composite wheels that Motor Wheel had designed. They canceled the program and then wheels ended up on a Shelby Shadow in a different style. Only 6 wheels survive. Not they are not light.
There is more factual history that remains untold that should be saved.
The best person to speak about the Fiero program ever is John Schinella. He was there from the early days and fought in the end to save the car. Hulki had his place but John never gets enough credit and I actually find him as important if not more important than Hulki. He is the reason we still have the 1990 GT yet. He tried to save what he could of the programs history as many other tried to forget it.
Many of these people are gone or retired so what is saved is up to us. To most it was just another car and another job. But to some like John it was one of the many high points in a very interesting career.
Many forget that Carol Shelby drove a Fiero and was a fan of the car. He saw many possibilities but he was working at Chrysler so there was never any thing more.
In this day of self publication maybe we can get a book at some point. The Fiero book we have from Gary was written under GM direction since he and his wife were GM employees. I would love to see him go back and fill in the areas left out. I hinted this to him on the Hagerty web site a few months back and around the first of the year he and John Shinella did a page story in Car and Driver about the Porsche tuning. I think it was their way to share some info with out disturbing GM. Many are still afraid to talk about the Fiero.
Many missed the story but I think it was the last page in the March issue.
Covette team engineers later played with two 2.8 V6 engines to replace the V8 but it never got past the Mule state and that car is still around with one engine in front and one in the rear.
FYI, I'm good friends with the guy that owns this car. It was built on a Citation X/11 platform, and he bought it at Barrett Jackson. It has an "X" on the VIN tag. Can't remember if he's ever officially registered it, but I've been in it and it's actually quite cool. It even had some kind of digital suspension system, which I think was mostly missing. It had a very large computer mounted between the seats in the back (almost like how a Delorean has the Flux capacitor, hahah).
Anyway, the guy that owns this car used to live by me, though he's moved for work. He's really crafty. He's actually built another Citation X/11, inspired by that one, with an LS3 front and back with 4T65s and a shared gas tank. He even put a twin-turbo on one of them, can't remember if it was the one in the front or the back. He's also swapped a Series-2 3800 Supercharged, and a Cadillac 4.9 into a Citation X/11, and even owns a Citation X/11 that's been put on top of a lifted and jacked Chevy S-10 platform. Dude is wild with a welder, etc.
I'll see if I can dig up some pictures of it, but he goes to the Thanksgiving car show in Daytona almost every year.
hyperv6 summed it up nicely. I could tell you stories about the crazy stuff that goes on at auto plants, but needless to say, If John DeLorean was at the Fiero plant, a lot more than 1 person would remember it, and there's no way he'd be inspecting and signing 50 decklids in 1986.
If anything the story reminds me of the pre-internet days of car shows, when old guys would walk around to random cars and make up facts and stories about the cars, and refuse to be corrected, no matter how obvious the lie.
This reminds me of a funny story. Years ago at a Fiero event a couple club members of ours were excited Hulki signed their visors.
We then at dinner had to advise them that Hulki never was at the event.
It appears someone they mistook for Hulki humored them with signatures.
Then I was at another event in Michigan and I was visited by the real Hulki. He came over and we spoke for quite a bit. Only a few people noticed him and his young grand son.
He was to be at the evening event and blew it off.
Air Johnson - come to the Fiero 40th this summer - www.fiero40th.com and you will have the opportunity to talk to the very people who designed and built the Fieros. Some individuals mentioned in this thread will be there, as will other designers and engineers and plant works. Hyperv6 provides a lot of great history though per your specific question.
I'm assuming you came here because you think somehow if this story is true that your Fiero will be worth more. Hate to break it to you but regardless of whether DeLorean signed it or not, I doubt anyone will pay any extra for the car. DeLorean had nothing to do with the Fiero so why would a Fiero owner care if DeLorean signed it? It would be like me seeing Jay Leno at a car show where I was showing my car and asking him to sign the decklid. Ok so does that make my Fiero more valuable? Probably not. Perhaps if DeLorean signed a DeLorean it might matter.
So anyway, what are you trying to get from proving this story to be true? Do you think all of a sudden it's worth $2000 more or something from his signature (Assuming he did sign it)?
Check berrit Jackson sales - that will Aw seer your 2k lol
Just wanted to add to this... I'm not sure that the signature represents what you might be implying. Back in the day, a lot of mechanics would write the date / time that the car was serviced. Most people didn't carry a service book in their car, and this kind of concept is what resulted in the sticker going in the upper left corner of the windshield. People have been doing this for ages, and it's also a very common thing in watch repair. I have an odd hobby of renovating / restoring Swiss watches, and when you open them up, you'll see a lot of jewelers will do that exact same thing on the inside (etched) stating the date / time, and their initials. Basically means the watch was disassembled, cleaned, and re-assembled.
I wouldn't think too much into it.
If I didn't know any better though, I'd think you were looking to start a new creepypasta like the whole Polybius story...
Yes the date I thought was a machanic oil change to until it was pointed out to me the day pre dates the manufacture date by a day 5-8-86 - door tag is 5-9-86
Air Johnson - come to the Fiero 40th this summer - www.fiero40th.com and you will have the opportunity to talk to the very people who designed and built the Fieros. Some individuals mentioned in this thread will be there, as will other designers and engineers and plant works. Hyperv6 provides a lot of great history though per your specific question.
I have been a life long fan of John D. I have followed his path good and bad over the years and I hate to rain on the parade here but John was not randomly inspecting Fieros.
#1 he spent late 85-86 defending himself on fraud charges. His main focus was to keep out of jail
#2 If John had showed up at a GM plant the news would have been all over on this. There were many watching him in this post DMC period and his presents at GM would have made the front page. Also no a plant full of people would never have kept quiet this long.
#3 John wrote a book in 79 called On a Clear Day You Can See GM. He burned many at GM and GM for the way they treated him and their practices. After that book he was not welcome to any GM functions let alone plants.
Johns only tie to the Fiero is his dream to build a 2 seat sports car that he attempted at Pontiac several times. First with the Banshee both still exist today and are accepted as inspiration for the C3. He was told no and to destroy the cars but the designers hid them at the tech center.
John also pushed to make their version of the Firebird a 2 seater. It was also rejected and the 67-68 cars were not that different from the Camaro because of the late start. He did put bigger engines in and lowered the cars over the Camaro.
There even was a rotary as in air plane type air cooled 4 cylinder that was tested but in went no where. John moved on in late 69 to Chevy and his connection to Pontiac ended there.
The Fiero itself was inspired by the plans drawn up at the tech center at GM by their advanced tech group.
This car was offered to Chevy as a Transverse V8 with a small space frame. The original intent was a Wankle engine but GM killed it.
Then the car later was down sized and offered to Chevy as a V6 Corvette and again it was rejected by the Corvette team. Then Hulki came alone in 1977-78 looking for a way to lower the cowl of a small sports car. Someone at the Tech Center offer the rejected Corvette design. You have to remember at this time GM was planning to kill the V8 so hence he V6 Corvette idea. Covette team engineers later played with two 2.8 V6 engines to replace the V8 but it never got past the Mule state and that car is still around with one engine in front and one in the rear.
Anyways back to Hulki. He saw the idea as a solution for the lower cowl on the car by moving he engine to the back. So he took the idea and ran with it. The details of how much of the original design is not disclosed but the head of their Corvette team clearly points out the origin of the Fiero in his book Inside the Corvette.
Now John did have a number of old engineers on the Fiero program as many of them came to Pontiac and worked for him in the 60's. The Fiero was kind of their last rebellion as the Pontiac engineers were rules breakers due to John. Many retired after the Fiero. Hulki left around the time the first one was built.
The real reason for the killing of the Fiero was the Corvette people. The C4 was not doing well and the coming GT was a threat to lost sales on top of the already poor sales. It got to the point as GM was really broke then that the Corvette was killed. Yes they were ordered to stop work on the C5. The Book All Corvettes are Red is a very detailed history of the Corvette dying and coming back. They hid the program outside GM at another engineering firm,. Sound much like the Fiero. It should a number of people on the C5 program were Fiero people. The C5 actually lived many things from the Fiero in design and some engineering. The body is a bolt on just like the Fiero.
What happened to kill the Fiero was this. Yes the Fires and publicity hurt but the fact was the GM 80 program was set to move into the Fiero plant and offset the 250,000 capacity the plant had. The Fiero was never going to sell at the rate it started. In fact it hurt the car as most 2 seat cars sell less than 20K units a year at best most sell under 10K.
Thee GM 80 was a FWD AWD model and no one liked it so they ran cost up and killed the car. This key the F body alive.
This left the Pontiac plant with no car to share with the Fiero as the GM 80 was a space frame plastic body car similar to the Fiero.
The Chevy people pointed out the under capacity plant and showed it was not profitable. This led two the killing of the Fiero. Chevy sold more cars so they got more power over GM plans.
At this point John Shinella saved the Fiero styling and adapted the styling to the new F body car that is why it looks similar to the 1990. The people from the C5 still had to fight to get the car to market in 97 years late.
That is the readers digest version of the Fiero and John D.
John did admire the car as it is what he always wanted to do but he had no real contact with he car ever. The 80's were a very tough time for him. He finally got his feet on the ground. He was broke, divorced and fighting to keep out of jail here in the states and England. He said his ego go the best of him and said he was sorry for all those he hurt. He became a Christian and tried to live out the later days talking about his Pontiac days and trying to start a watch company.
This is just another reason we need a book or a well established site to post the true story of the Fiero as so many people try to add their own version of the history and there are still many parts that the Fiero people do not really understand that are even more interesting.
We all heard the fake Lotus suspension crap. The truth is the 88 suspension was designed by GM but Porsche engineering was brought in to help tune the on center feel and turn in. This is why the turbo Porsche Eater Fieros lost their Porsche Eater tail lamps in 1985.
GM was also playing with the plastic composite wheels that Motor Wheel had designed. They canceled the program and then wheels ended up on a Shelby Shadow in a different style. Only 6 wheels survive. Not they are not light.
There is more factual history that remains untold that should be saved.
The best person to speak about the Fiero program ever is John Schinella. He was there from the early days and fought in the end to save the car. Hulki had his place but John never gets enough credit and I actually find him as important if not more important than Hulki. He is the reason we still have the 1990 GT yet. He tried to save what he could of the programs history as many other tried to forget it.
Many of these people are gone or retired so what is saved is up to us. To most it was just another car and another job. But to some like John it was one of the many high points in a very interesting career.
Many forget that Carol Shelby drove a Fiero and was a fan of the car. He saw many possibilities but he was working at Chrysler so there was never any thing more.
In this day of self publication maybe we can get a book at some point. The Fiero book we have from Gary was written under GM direction since he and his wife were GM employees. I would love to see him go back and fill in the areas left out. I hinted this to him on the Hagerty web site a few months back and around the first of the year he and John Shinella did a page story in Car and Driver about the Porsche tuning. I think it was their way to share some info with out disturbing GM. Many are still afraid to talk about the Fiero.
Many missed the story but I think it was the last page in the March issue.
Sorry my mistake. I just been getting my info from GM people when I should have gotten it from some Donut web idiot.
Look, I have been involved with the Fiero since 1980 and have owned my car since 1985. I have spoke to collected info and information through tThis time from reliable resources.
I even have held and read the document for the killing of the car that were stamped confidential. So don’t try to pawn some web idiot as a source of info.
GM never fully disclosed much info because of UAW issues as well some very hard feelings between divisions at GM. People were told to shut up. Over time as they retired and other finally just spoke up on the true history of the car.
While donut web boy has some true info he also leaves out much of the undisclosed info that brings much more context to the real reason.
I would do as other stated and attend the 40th and get the truth from the real people involved at Pontiac.
Other factors involved too were the fact GM was going broke back even this far. Pontiac was originally on the chopping block and the Fiero was part of the plan to try to save the division. It and the Firebird help generate sales of the Grand Am and saved Pontiac but moved the target to Olds.
Hulki and his handling of the Fiero was to farm out the program to Entech an engineering firm that continued work outside GM as they hid the program. This is how they stopped the rejections.
Like I said a book needs written to preserve the truth on this cars history and prevent folks clogging up the web with false info.
While it could be true your car was signed by John Delorean it for sure was not the one who led Pontiac in the 60’s. Odds are it was John Delorean on Oak Park MI. No relation.
Even back in the day John did not work on cars. He was an engineer and he had a shop that did the work like to install the first 389 in a Lemans to create the GTO.
Unless you can provide some undisputed proof on this you are doing nothing to help the history of this car. If anything you just are contributing to making things even more messed up as it is.
When I got parts from the 1990 car I made sure to get documentation and even an engineering plus print of the parts to prove they were legit.
Hold yourself to a higher standard as other will if you don’t.
I really with I had a dollar for every false Fiero bit of history that is claimed true. If so I would be driving a Ferrari.
[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 06-07-2023).]
LOL Love how this new guy posts "Donut" youtube channel as his authority on the Fiero. A bunch of 25 year old Zoomers that deal with hundreds of cars with no specialization. Hardly what I would refer to as a historical expert on a 40 year old car. The guy literally probably didn't even know what a Fiero is a week before he made that youtube video.
[This message has been edited by reinhart (edited 06-07-2023).]
I want to kindly remind people that we don't call new members "newbie", "noobs", or "idiot" or whatever. If that's your thing, then PFF is not the forum for you to be. There are other forums out there (yes, even for the Fiero) that do tolerate that kind of behavior (some even encourage that), but PFF is not one of them.
So also consider this a kind warning. Help where you can. Correct new members if you feel it's appropriate. But stay respectful. If not, I'll gladly point you to the other forums.
I want to kindly remind people that we don't call new members "newbie", "noobs", or "idiot" or whatever. If that's your thing, then PFF is not the forum for you to be. There are other forums out there (yes, even for the Fiero) that do tolerate that kind of behavior (some even encourage that), but PFF is not one of them.
So also consider this a kind warning. Help where you can. Correct new members if you feel it's appropriate. But stay respectful. If not, I'll gladly point you to the other forums.
Definitely want to echo this statement... as someone who's been here for over 20+ years (and this is my second account since I forgot my password on the first one pre-2002 or whatever). There are a dwindling number of Fieros. That means the total number of Fiero owners will continue to decline... especially since many of us own more than one. If we want to support the hobby, and we want people to genuinely feel like this is a place where they can learn more about the car and interact with other Fiero owners... then we need to be really respectful... even if they come here in their first post with a claim that you may not agree with. Don't confuse excitement as a challenge to anyone's experience here. Even if so... don't let it get to you. We want more members, not fewer ones.
Also, when did you move to Zandvoort, Cliff? I haven't been there in years... maybe 10. I've kind of stopped watching Formula-1 after they got rid of the V8s... but I keep meaning to go back and watch. As I understand it, F1 now races in the Netherlands again... I think on the old racetrack in Zandvoort if I'm not mistaken? Or is that only Moto-GP?
My uncle (Dussedorp, who owns all the BMW dealerships there), used to sponsor Williams BMW (I think it was), and went to all the races. Don't know if he still does that... but I'm hoping to visit next year during the summer. If you're around, would be pretty cool to meet for a couple of beers. It would be me, my wife, daughter, and my 15 cousins... hahah...
I want to kindly remind people that we don't call new members "newbie", "noobs", or "idiot" or whatever. If that's your thing, then PFF is not the forum for you to be. There are other forums out there (yes, even for the Fiero) that do tolerate that kind of behavior (some even encourage that), but PFF is not one of them.
So also consider this a kind warning. Help where you can. Correct new members if you feel it's appropriate. But stay respectful. If not, I'll gladly point you to the other forums.
I appreciate that , but not new to cars - I have been showing a racing cars for 50 years . Not real impressed with your page , I was told this page was a good resource . So far just seems like a lot of bully’s and people that want to make fun . Makes me feel ashamed for owning one of these cars to be honest , because people at shows highly recommend this forum . I will be deleting this of my phone because this is not the kind of input I need - you might want to clean house if you actually want some members that can contribute
)
