Bought a 2002 GTP and im debating a Manual vs Auto in my 85 GT. For those that have done the Manual to Auto swap please chime in. I've done the research of what it takes going either way just looking for opinions.
The car is a pile and looks like a pack of dogs lived in it. The motor and trans run really well and that's all I want... Got the car for $200 so I cant complain. Was able to drive it for a while and used my HPT VCM Scanner on it and it looks ok and shows no codes.
I think the Muncie would be fun but I know it would be faster on the street with the 4T65E-HD.
Do you plan any mods to the engine to increase power?
We've done several 3800s into Fieros. Unless you're dead set on a manual, the automatic is the way to go, it's programmable, shifts faster, less expensive and will handle the power, even with engine mods.
Not really sure how far Ill go with it. Ive always wanted to build an ultimate sleeper so who knows. LOL Your point is a good one though, as it would offer HP growth potential with the Auto.
Funny, if you were doing this swap here in Ca., it wouldn’t even be a question. 😊 In Ca., you must swap what the car came with. (all GTP’s came with auto’s) Kit
Exactly... I'm leaning toward Automatic just for the Turbo later on. But I also think the Manual would be really great for autocross or just for everyday driving.
theres a lot less work involved with the manual.you can use your axles and the speedometer will work without modding.plus i assume you will need cooler lines to the radiator.
[This message has been edited by richard in nc (edited 01-01-2024).]
theres a lot less work involved with the manual.you can use your axles and the speedometer will work without modding.plus i assume you will need cooler lines to the radiator.
Huh?? Automatic swap is much simpler. It is the trans that the engine was designed to work with. It is much stronger and more reliable than any of the manual trans options.
The manual is more fun to drive, but less reliable and more likely to break. That is the trade-off. For a straight line/drag racing car, Auto is better choice every time.
To each their own... there is really no "better" choice. Just pros and cons to both
im saying its easier.swapping in a four speed automatic is difficult and getting the right axles is difficult.it would be easier to use the three speed auto but its weak and needs overdrive.
[This message has been edited by richard in nc (edited 01-01-2024).]
I have driven my 3800 swap with a Getrag 5 speed about 12,000 miles and thoroughly enjoyed every single one.
In my world a proper sporting automobile has 2 doors and 3 pedals.
TMGPS
The Manual Gearbox Preservation Society credo.
We are the guardians of a dying art. The purveyors of a craft born of necessity, but beloved for its spirit. We travel with purpose regardless of our destination. Every corner an opportunity for the perfect downshift, every stop a new starting line. We find joy in those fleeting moments between ratios; the crescendo of rpm, the gentle click of the gate, the building inertia in our chest as the drivetrain becomes whole again. We are the masters of our machines. We are The Manual Gearbox Preservation Society!
GTP 1. Remove the GTP cradle and power wash the heck out of it. 2. Remove engine and trans from cradle, tag, bag and mark everything. 3. Continue to clean and inspect everything. Store transmission and unused parts. 4. Inventory parts needed and try to sell everything not used. Junk doner...
Fiero 1. Remove cradle and remove engine. 2. Clean and inspect transmission, axels, cradle... 3. Paint cradle, install poly bushings, replace trans seals, upgrade brakes? (Not sure what to do yet) 4. Install 3800 and clean harness of wires not needed. (I'm keeping all of the automatic wiring) 5. Get the motor running before installation into car. (HP tuner everything required, VATS, disable required DTCs) 6. Install cradle, wire in car get it running and workout the bugs...
I'm going to run the motor as removed for a while to see what it needs. Later it will be turbocharged...
Patrick is right; you already know what's best for you! Automatics are for lazy people who don't know how to drive. Yes they can be programmed and yes they can do wonders on a 1/4 mile. But we don't drive 400m flat out all the time!. It's absolute "bollock's" that Getrags and others manuals are weak. They are only weak if you drive like an idiot and drop the clutch in 1st from a standing start and with the engine at redline!! Put in a good oil like "Motul 300" 75W90 which is much more fluid than traditionnel gear oils. (The originel spec "syncromesh" oil is not much more than automatic fluid and I wouldn't use it when passing a little more torque that the 3800 has.) If you want proof, watch some of my videos to see how much more fun a 5-speed box is over any automatic or paddle shifted junkbox. And mine holds up to 407.5 CV (303.49kW) @ 6171rpm, 491,0N.m (362.14ft-lb). What more do you need?
Happy new year, Rafe
------------------ "Turbo Slug" - '87 Fiero GT. 3800 turbo. - The fastest Fiero in France! @turboslugfiero https://youtu.be/hUzOAeyWLfM
One thing that is hardly (if at all) mentioned about using a manual transmission, is the awesome sound an engine makes (especially through a nice free-flow exhaust system) as the clutch is released when starting off from a stop. I never ever tire of that low growl, and I get to enjoy it over and over again when doing my usual stop and go city driving.
Can't really give you any good advice, you either want to shift or not. I can say that my LS76, 88 fastback is a blast to drive with a F40 in it. I also drive a manual 06 Solstice as a daily. Before the Solstice I daily drove a 88 GT w/ 3800 and an Auto trans. Every once and a while I drive it to keep the battery charged and when I do I remember how much fun an auto trans is, just punch the GO pedel and hang on. I also miss the auto trans in traffic.
If it was me, i'd stay auto, but i am getting old now and a good auto is more for comfort and ease vs fun and sport.
One thing that seems to have been implied but never explicitly stated, from what I understand none of the stock Fiero manuals can really take the abuse from all the low end torque that the 3800sc can put out. I've read about quite a few 1st/2nd gear failures over the years, but I've also seen a running and driving 3.8sc/getrag 282 combo at the drags so you never know Not tryna convince you to steer clear, both my vehicles are sticks and I wouldn't change it for the world, just something to add to the pros/cons list
One thing that seems to have been implied but never explicitly stated, from what I understand none of the stock Fiero manuals can really take the abuse from all the low end torque that the 3800sc can put out. I've read about quite a few 1st/2nd gear failures over the years, but I've also seen a running and driving 3.8sc/getrag 282 combo at the drags so you never know Not tryna convince you to steer clear, both my vehicles are sticks and I wouldn't change it for the world, just something to add to the pros/cons list
One of our Calgary members mated his 3800 S/C with a Getrag F23 5-speed from a Cobalt. Better gearing and overdrive to boot. (unfortuanately, pics have been lost) https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/087296.html
My vote would be to stay with the automatic that came with the engine but you already have a manual car which adds more complexity / hurdles if you change over.
1) You would need an add-on trans cooler or a radiator from an automatic Fiero and then run lines to it. I think Fiero Store still sells a really nice stainless line set.
2) You'll need to do something with the clutch wiring and remove the pedal (not very hard). Could also switch the brake pedal out with an automatic one so it would look right. My OCD would warrant this.
3) To do it right, you'll also need to switch out the steering column for an automatic model with the BTSI stuff. This is what prevents the ignition key from turning if the shifter isn't in park. Again, this is my OCD talking here. It would work without doing this but it wouldn't be totally safe if someone got in your car and was not familiar with it.
I switched my 86 over to an auto (stock 2.8 and TH125) and I've done 1 and 2 but haven't done anything about the column yet. But I do plan on doing 3, hopefully this Summer.
One of our Calgary members mated his 3800 S/C with a Getrag F23 5-speed from a Cobalt. Better gearing and overdrive to boot. (unfortuanately, pics have been lost) https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/087296.html
Thank you for that, I wished I could see the photos in that thread. Its also interesting about the different clutch sizes.
When the weather is not -40 I would love to see it...
One comment on page 6 from Fieroguru was very good info and cleared up some things in my head.
"Just about all the FWD engines have the crankshaft basically flush with the bellhousing, but there can be 0.030 +/- between different engine families. Part of the problem is the way people reference custom flywheels. They say how thick is, when the true critical dimension is protrusion from the bellhousing for the specific application (because like I said, flush crankshaft flanges can be +/- 0.030" from each other and oftentimes 0.030" is the different between fitting or interfering. Stock Fiero 2.8 has the face of the flywheel 0.830" from the bellhousing face.
The F23 was designed for small, low power motors and came with a less than 9 1/8" (stock Fiero 2.8 size) clutch. If you run the stock F23 application clutch and pressure place, 90% of all the issues with HTOB over extension and interference go away, but I have only seen a few go this path (with success), the rest mix and match parts from the Fiero and other applications and run into fitment issues."
[This message has been edited by Fierosity (edited 01-12-2024).]
Not tryna convince you to steer clear, both my vehicles are sticks and I wouldn't change it for the world, just something to add to the pros/cons list
