I got sucked into a bunch of YouTube videos of people modifying and racing / testing Fieros on the track. I noticed a common theme.
I guess I'm at that age now where I'm realizing that I'm not young anymore, and everyone my age is now more or less considered "old" (I'm in my mid 40s). By that token, many of the hosts of a lot of these shows are in their 20s and 30s, and never grew up with Fieros. To be fair... I was not old enough to drive a car until at least 6 years after the last Fiero rolled off the assembly line.
But it seems to me that a lot of people have a much different perspective of cars today. In almost every one of the videos, people say things like... "The Fiero, which was a horrible handling car... has been tuned to actually handle well." or something to the effect of... "The Fiero, which could barely get out of its own way, can now compete with real sports cars."
Kinda irks me, but also makes me realize that people just don't get it.
My automatic stock 1987 Fiero SE / V6 back in the 90s could out-handle and out-accelerate most of the cars from the same time. Mazda RX-7... no problem. Datsun / Nissan 280ZX Turbo... no problem. It was a decent handling and accelerating car at the time. But I guess people don't really have the same perspective of what "the time" was like. Everything was just kinda slow. I'm surprised to hear people say it doesn't handle well...
I'm guessing in all these shows, they don't know any better since the one in these videos is the first one they've ever driven, and it's been "tuned" as they say... but they have nothing to compare it to except perhaps an Acura NSX or whatever else.
These people can't help but happen to have a modern perspective on cars, and these days a Fiero has old (70's/80s) technology. It doesn't help that the 84-87 had cobbled-together suspension from other GM economy cars. So generally these days, they're not known to have excellent handling or speed in their stock form. I find it cool that people are getting into them at all. You'd also have to expect that they regard them in the same boat as the 80s Firebird and Camaro which aren't regarded to handle that well. A lot of people don't value the mid-engine thing at all either. Back in the day before electronic gadgetry correcting issues with cars handling you needed a mid-engine layout, or rear-engine to have a serious sports car.
At the time, it just coming with 4-wheel disc was something. Fuel injection, same thing. I recently saw a YT video about the 1980 Turbo Trans Am and the speed numbers in the video surprised me....8.x something 0-60, 17 seconds in the 1/4 mile. Top speed of like 115. The V6 Fiero when it came out, was faster in a straight line than the top-tier Trans Am from 5 years before. That from a small V6 with 100 less hp and almost 200 less lb/ft. Combine that with the 4-wheel disc brakes and the control-arm suspension on the Fiero and you had a serious car back then.
The stock Fiero will always be plagued with the malaise-era engineering it was born from though, which the iron duke definitely came from. V8s that produced around 150 hp. That doesn't lead to much respect these days, where you've got stock 4-cylinder engines up in the 300's.
On tail of the dragon this past fall I got a lot of respect from a Honda and Mustang guy who chased me on it. With my tires, brake upgrades, and 3800SC and the overall rest of its design it does very well up against modern cars.
I wouldn't say its just the Fiero either. Take a X1/9, they aren't going to get much respect either. Or even a mkI MR2. We're getting into territory with modern cars now that the golden-age 90s Japanese sports cars will be in that boat soon. I don't like all the electronic handling tech these days but its mattering a lot to a lot of people. I like Fieros because my ideal exotic car wouldn't be a newer Ferrari/etc at all, but one of the older ones that was pure driving with no assists.
[This message has been edited by sdgdf (edited 01-15-2024).]
Happy to say they're still some of us kidos who appreciate the spirit of 80's cars. Here's a couple pics of me and one of my friends in his AW11 (if i don't call it by its "real" name he'll kill me). We've got hundreds of miles of back roads chasing each other blasting 80s/90s music
------------------ Black 88 GT, a 19 year old here about 20 years to late - Running(?) LQ1 Swap-
The are definitely still some young people getting into Fieros that are happy with them to start with, me for example, 18, Many of these shows start of with a bad Fiero to start with, mushy bushings, blown shocks, and the stock engine down on power, with a slightly less grippy clutch, it makes a huge difference, My dad has an 86 Fiero SE with 200,000km on it, my 85gt has 140,000km on it, his engine is more tired, clutch has... very smooth engagement (not quite to the point of slipping), original rear shocks, 7/8 of the bushings are original, still uses motor oil in the 4 speed, and the interior insulation has been upgraded, all of that leads to almost a soothing ride, not enough power to even chirp the tires, and not enough clutch to do that if there was enough power, ride is somewhat mushy and "comfortable" but the rear end feels more twitchy from that, everything is just slower, and less precise. In comparison, my Fiero has all new poly suspension/dogbone bushings, new kyb/Monroe shocks, very noticeably more power and the clutch has much more "bite", synchromesh fluid, and it goes, even with the addition of a rear (OEM front) swaybar, it is less rear end twitchy then my dad's with original bushings, and handles really really well, and it accelerated like it was new, getting 7.6 seconds 0-60(mph), which was comparable with the magazine testing back in the day, in the spring it can only be even better, as I have installed aluminum cradle bushings, ported the exhaust manifolds, installed new shifter cables and replaced all the shifter linkage bushings, MSD coil, red Taylor plug wires, and painted the intake, valve cover, exhaust from manifolds to muffler inlet (but Silver color ceramic manifold paint) engine bay is looking like new, and it should drive/handle better then new, even though "new"is still way way better then "current original status".
It seems that most people in CA must read ONLY Car & Drivel magazine....Back in the 80s C&D was very anti-US Cars...David E. Davis (Head Editor) was called on the carpet for an editorial where he said positive things about the new Lincoln MK 7....a few months later he left C&D and started Automobile magazine. C&D bombed on the Fiero like there was no tomorrow...
The 1985 GT tests in MT and R&T were very positive- that is what caused me to buy my 85 SE V6...after that most reviews were negative- only really positive one was a 87 GT test in the R&T special....https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/099448.html
Here is a list of Fiero performance and the performance specs for comparable cars in the 80s
[This message has been edited by cvxjet (edited 01-15-2024).]
It seems that most people in CA must read ONLY Car & Drivel magazine....Back in the 80s C&D was very anti-US Cars...David E. Davis (Head Editor) was called on the carpet for an editorial where he said positive things about the new Lincoln MK 7....a few months later he left C&D and started Automobile magazine. C&D bombed on the Fiero like there was no tomorrow...
The 1985 GT tests in MT and R&T were very positive- that is what caused me to buy my 85 SE V6...after that most reviews were negative- only really positive one was a 87 GT test in the R&T special....https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/099448.html
Here is a list of Fiero performance and the performance specs for comparable cars in the 80s
CA As in California, or CA As in Canada? Pretty impressive that with good transmission fluid and modern tires, my 85 gt can get 7.6 seconds, they are really long lasting cars, when maintained well.
Cali-Forni-A....Lived here most of my life...N.CA is all forest, mountains and small towns- and most importantly, windy back-roads...
My 85 SE V6 w/manual was very quick in stock form; I had basically no other option (No A/C, or power anything) car weighed 2580- basically, 150 lbs less than the GTs they were testing in the magazines.
My favorite driving experience is windy back-roads...I can stay with many much "faster" cars on backroads.
Now my Fiero has the 3.4 F-body long-block conversion, and Getrag 5 spd....plus some odd tuning of the suspension so it has much better than stock turn-in...and is basically neutral all the time. I also did some body mods...
I remember back when I was a new driver, I had a six-cylinder Nova, and then another six-cylinder Nova after that one. At some point, my dad had a Citation for a few years, and it had the Iron Duke. The first time I drove it, I thought it was the fastest car I'd ever driven! LOL I am sure that opinion was short-lived! But it shows how low the bar was at the time.
Relocating the rear tie-rod mounting point to be move in-line with the movement of the control arm makes the pre-88's handle like an 88. At that point, the 88's only big advantage is turn radius but at the sacrifice of front-end grip.
Hence the best handling Fiero is a pre-88 with an 88 cradle swap...if you're looking for bolt-on upgrades...
RCC's solution was to off-set the mount by ~4" and give you a shorter tie rod.
Rayne/Held/Arraut's solution was to sell you a custom arm with the tie-rod built into it.
I've raced Fiero's with all combinations on an oval track: stock pre-88 stock 88 and the 3 conversions above...
[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 01-16-2024).]
I was just thinking about this yesterday. I went from an 81 mazda 626 5-spd, to a 1979 Datsun 200SX 5-spd to a 1985 Fiero 2m4 5Spd, to an 88 Conquest TSI, to a 92 Probe GT then I moved on to Jeeps and Broncos. I now have an 08 Sky Redline and 04 MazdaSpeed Miata and a Civic SI...along with one of my favorite to drive 88 Fiero GT 5-SPD CJB. My Fiero is completly stock and it's the most fun to drive car I have, sure the Sky is much faster and I miss the 6th gear in the Fiero that I have in the Miata and SI, I actually tried to shift the Fiero into 6th gear the other day, lol. But as far as going out for a cruise, the sitting position, the engine behind you, the fiero is the most fun. I just need to change the blinker sound as both my teenage boys think the blinker makes the most ridiculous noise ever. I guess you have the old ones who love the Fiero for what it was and you have the younger crowd who love it for what it could be. There are 2 very distinct crowds.
As a Gen Z'r who is pretty well versed in the "modern" car scene aswell as one who is pretty versed on Fieros. There is a incompatibility between most of the young generation and cars like the Fiero, MR2 and other late 80s and 90s. It really comes down to there being no shortcuts for older cars.
The amount of people I hear talking about "oh bro its stock now but with a tune it will be 300whp" and with modern engines that are technological marvels held back by either ecological or financial restrictions. Thats possible.
There are no plug in tunes to make a Fiero 'fast'. There are no drop in parts to make a Fiero make 300hp. Its not hard to have a 300-400hp Fiero. But it takes, effort, skill, time, and energy. This generation is not ready to do that.
Thanks guys... I read all the responses. For me, it's just so weird to see people talk about the Fiero... it's in a way... kind of making me feel old. The Fiero was an older car when I got it. It was "my" first car in 1996 when I turned 18, and it was a 1987 model... so already 9 years old.
But when I hear younger people talk about it, they often have positive things to say, but they come up with totally random and weird things. Someone on here posted a meme of a person talking about a Fiero that flys... I can't remember where I saw it. But they were criticizing the owner of the Fiero for ruining a car that was meant to fly... and the owner said, "what is happening right now?"
Basically, the meme was basically to show that people don't have the slightest clue what they're talking about. I don't expect all people to know all about the Fiero any more than I can tell you about say... a late 90s Acura Integra. 1.8L... I guess... 4 cyl, 5-Speed... there was a Type-R one that was faster? I don't know.
But the things people say are totally silly.
I was watching a YouTube video and in the comments one person said that the 4 cyl Fiero weighed less than the V6 Fiero, but there was only a 50 horsepower difference, so they actually had the exact same performance. Comments like this... I'm like, really? Seriously? The difference between an Iron Duke Fiero and a V6 Fiero are night and day.
I dunno... not mad, it's just making me realize that I'm officially old now... hahah...
You are way younger than I am dude maybe by 10 years. I'm a karting champion and that is all I knew how to drive and the reason I got a Fiero. Even today, my Fiero is set up as my kart, very stiff; so stiff that it feels it has no suspension. I haven't been on the track much with the Fiero because of the engine development but let me tell you my competition is going for a surprise, I have the same power to weight ratio of a 2022 Porsche GT3. I'm a SCCA and Porsche Club of America instructor and I instruct mainly on the south east tracks. I'm personally not into high speed and long tracks, I'm into tight supa dupa technical tracks. Anyone can go 300mph on a straight line but it takes kahunas to go 70mph though a 25mph turn! To the amazement of ALL my students the first thing I teach them is to break properly and just by braking properly they get much faster! https://youtu.be/apPx7Tu3Q9E
This is me in the same car, a bit heavier and with a 173whp @ 6000rpm 2.8L and the Economy 4 speed trans as you will hear I'm way out of the powerband with this trans! You don't see a lot of cars because the only faster car than mine was that ZR1 Vette and the only thing he had over me was acceleration. Enjoy!
[This message has been edited by La fiera (edited 01-16-2024).]
Here is the truth. The Fieronhanfles better than the average seda but the 84 to 87 was not a well sorted car.
I have owned an 85 2M6 since new and yes it is a fun car yo drive, yes, is it a sporty car , yes. But the truth is it is not an easy car to drive at the limits. It have horrible understeer, it has horrible bumpnsteer. It has heavy steering and numb turn in.
Yes most of this can be improved with sway bars and solid bushingscas Herb Adam’s offered and as I installed.
The trouble is often the Fiero is the best handling car some have driven. There are much better out there even from that era.
I have tons of miles in a 911 Carrera. I was never a 911 fan but it taught me what a good handling car can do. It is an 1986 and it makes going fast feel like you are going slow. You can be on an uneven rough road and still easily go stupid fast and not have to work at it.
You feel like you are doing 60 and you are doing 90 mph.
GM knew the early cars were not right. The 88 suspension was intended from the start but there was just no money for it. They fixed the bump steer they made the car more neutral. Pontiac went to Porsche Engineering to dual in the turn in and on center feel in the 88. Yes the Lotus rumors were BS but the Porsche Engineering was the real one involved but only for some tuning.
Modern cars are nothing more different today vs the old cars but they are doing better tuning vs the old Detroit ways. Softer springs, better shocks and harder bushings. My 2008 HHR SS would run circles around my Fiero.
My C5 Corvette that is only a couple years newer makes going fast easy on the worst roads.
There is no way around it but the early Fiero’s were never good on anything but smooth roads and even then they still understeered.
Over the years I have driven many sports and race cars and sone are really good, some ok and some horrible. The Fiero was ok but needed work and it got it late. It still could be a little better but in 88 it was not bad.
Look I am not here to trash but just to be honest. People in the automotive area will respect honest but they do not tolerate dishonest claims when they know better.
Look many sports cars are not perfect. MG, Austin Healy, even Jaguar are not perfect. Not every Ferrari is an F40 either.
To be honest I love my Vette just for riding around but it is boring as on public roads it is never even close to its limits at even high speeds.
Now the Fiero is more of a challenge yo drive. It makes you work to hit higher limits. To me it is a more fun car yo take out on back roads and run hard. You are still having fun at speeds they will not take you jail over. I find this too in many other sports cars of the 70’s and 60’s. Even older Vettes are like this.
So it is not a sin how the original Fiero runs but we as owners need to keep things in perspective an we do not own the all time best sports car in the world. Yes it is flawed in ways but that keeps things interesting.
My Herb Adam’s Suspension made things better but it is still a bit off in the front feel of the 88. It is much better and I can get oversteer but it is slow and still a little heavy in the front. The front and rear still feel like they are two different cars. But the bump steer is gone and that is a big deal. The rear bushings in the control arms deflect too much causing toe out. Add in the flex on the sub frame bushings. Go solid on the control arms no more deflection.
https://youtu.be/IDHN8KT8IOM?t=21 Ride with me at this testing kart session. I stablished the track record for this tires and has never been broken. This is how I drive my Fiero, in slow and fast out!
As a Gen Z'r who is pretty well versed in the "modern" car scene aswell as one who is pretty versed on Fieros. There is a incompatibility between most of the young generation and cars like the Fiero, MR2 and other late 80s and 90s. It really comes down to there being no shortcuts for older cars.
The amount of people I hear talking about "oh bro its stock now but with a tune it will be 300whp" and with modern engines that are technological marvels held back by either ecological or financial restrictions. Thats possible.
There are no plug in tunes to make a Fiero 'fast'. There are no drop in parts to make a Fiero make 300hp. Its not hard to have a 300-400hp Fiero. But it takes, effort, skill, time, and energy. This generation is not ready to do that.
Originally posted by css9450: ... But it shows how low the bar was at the time.
Yeah. The bar was not that high. I had an 85 GT, with a 4 speed. My first new car. I "jumped on" a Monte Carlo SS at a red light. Probably an 87, or so. Figured I would get my clock cleaned (because "V8", of course). It was not to be. I'm not going to say that I blew his paint off, or anything, but I definitely held my own against him.
And yeah... even with some of the swaps I've done, I am still subject to getting thumped by a run-of-the-mill sedan. It's just how it is. Technology marches on.
But with that said the Fiero was not as bad as some claim but it was neither perfect either.
Yes better suspensions came as power but the early Fiero was an imperfect car. If it was right would they have been working on more power and a new suspension for 89?
Few car companies get it all right. The Corvette for decades was fun to drive but it was not winning Le Mans.
In the 80 the cars that dominated show room stock were better examples of models getting it right.
My new iPhone 15 pro max is so more better than than the old rotery phone I used to use at my grandma's house, it was even on a party line so I could hear my Grandma's neighbor. I can talk to someone while I run to the store on the iPhone, I can get directions as I'm driving, if only I could find the number for time and temp I think the new phones could do everything the phones back then did. Lol. The Fiero was like 7K brand new putting it clearly in the value segment. Did it out perform the Iron Duke Camero? Sure, was the fit and finish on par with a 2005 Ford F150, sure it was. But in real terms, 7k in 1986 is equal to about 19k today. I challenge anyone to show me a car as cool today that you can get for 19k. Now I have a 1988 fully loaded Fiero CJB, origianl list was 17,000, that translates into 44k today. For that I could get some stripped down stationwagon, I mean SUV. My take, the Fiero is a really unique car which there really isn't anything like it on the road except maybe the MR2, but the Fiero is just different, everyone from the 80's has a Fiero story.
They did handle until push it till the bump steer slide out so after lowered spindles new suspension bushing and bump steer kit super wide wheels and a few sway bars tend to sort it out totally. Rodney i think sold the bump steer kit.
They did handle until push it till the bump steer slide out so after lowered spindles new suspension bushing and bump steer kit super wide wheels and a few sway bars tend to sort it out totally. Rodney i think sold the bump steer kit.
Are there still any good bump-steer kits being sold today? Or has all of that gone away?
I still have my "Big Fiero Parts Book" ... and 90% of those companies our out of business now...
I raced microstocks in n.j. and Pennsylvania on dirt and payment tracks it was fun in Florida after a fiero car show we went to new Smyrna speedway for opening day hot laps.2005 is on utube and I must say I did have fun. My 87gt has a rear sway bar and jointed end links. No bum steer twitch the car was fun. All my friends raced dirt cars and spent many hours with set up. You don't have to spend lots of money, just lurn how to drive your car. The mods to the stock engine, coil and wires. The engine sings at 4.500 rpm.
