How rare is this kit and is it any good? A local guy is selling it
Extremely rare 1 1/8" Front and rear Sway bar kit for Fiero years 84, 85, 86 and 87. Quickor Engineering, made in the US Complete. Brand new never installed, poly bushings
So if I understand the diagram in the instructions, the ends of the rear sway bar mount directly to the rear '84-'87 A-arms with no end links? That seems a little odd to me, but I'm no expert by any means.
So if I understand the diagram in the instructions, the ends of the rear sway bar mount directly to the rear '84-'87 A-arms with no end links? That seems a little odd to me, but I'm no expert by any means.
They do that on OEM cars, specifically my dad's 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera has that.
They do that on OEM cars, specifically my dad's 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera has that.
I suppose if the suspension has been designed with that type of sway bar mount in mind, then sure, it could work. I've just never seen a rear sway bar mounted on an '84-'87 Fiero in that manner previously. I'd like to see a photo/video of one mounted, and how it operates through the full range of motion of the rear suspension. Looking at that diagram, it just seems to me that the ends of the rear sway bar would be binding more and more (where they attach to the A-arms) as the A-arms travel upwards. (And IMO, that's precisely why end links are normally used.)
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 09-01-2024).]
I recall these. Not common but most suspension kits of that era are pretty rare today.
I bought the Herb Adams VSE kit from Moroso back in the 80’s. Herb designed tge bars for showroom stock racing.
The rear mount on mine is the same as with yours. The holes are already in the control arms and they work find.
Mine are 1” front and 1 1/4” rear size bars. My front is an adjustable hiem joint mount.
Herb was the Pontiac Engineer that came up with the Trans Am and the 455 SD cars. He even turned his wife’s 64 Tempest Inyo a Trans Am racer and they nearly don a race with it against Penske.
The set up you have will make the car very neutral vs stock. Much better than the hacked together blazer bar set up's. Do take care the car can drop throttle over steer. Just depends on how hard you push it and what tires you run. If it does you just get back on the gas to catch it. Also watch in rain.
[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 09-02-2024).]
How rare is this kit and is it any good? A local guy is selling it
Extremely rare 1 1/8" Front and rear Sway bar kit for Fiero years 84, 85, 86 and 87. Quickor Engineering, made in the US Complete. Brand new never installed, poly bushings
Pretty interesting. I think without endlinks it's probably pretty rigid (is my guess). How much is he asking for it?
Most people don't really need bigger sway bars, but if you're going to race it in SCCA or something like that, it's probably worth it.
I suppose if the suspension has been designed with that type of sway bar mount in mind, then sure, it could work. I've just never seen a rear sway bar mounted on an '84-'87 Fiero in that manner previously. I'd like to see a photo/video of one mounted, and how it operates through the full range of motion of the rear suspension. Looking at that diagram, it just seems to me that the ends of the rear sway bar would be binding more and more (where they attach to the A-arms) as the A-arms travel upwards. (And IMO, that's precisely why end links are normally used.)
That's precisely how it's mounted in the Cutlass, which also has a more flattened, simple stamped steel control arm similar to the Fiero rear. I think the Cutlass is basically a bigger version of the citation, who's front is in the Fiero rear. If you think of the flattened square inch of metal, flexing in the clamped rubber/poly end link, vs the square inch of metal bar flexing in the rubber end bushing thing, there's no additional flexing/binding, as both cases the swaybar angle changes where the bushing material angle doesn't, just a less durable mounting solution (the bushing gets worn out before an end link would from what I can see on the Cutlass). End links are usually used above the lower control arm, in a factory car, they can't have end links sticking down into the road, so for fwd, they either have to attach to the strut, figure some way to mount it above (with the axles, steering, etc.), or use those to mount below.
If so, what exactly are we looking at here? I'm having trouble recognizing this. Rear sway bar aside, I highly suspect this is not the factory '87 suspension.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 09-02-2024).]
You just saved me from laying on the floor tomorrow.
That is my car and the rear control arms are not the original suspension. They are the Ryane Motorsports bump/steer control arms. Good eye!
I recognized that view of my car, but had to take a look at a few things to confirm it was mine. That picture is with the first 3800 as the current 3800 has an aluminum pan. I suppose I have to take responsibility for the messy floor and the wires hanging down for some reason, but don't remember the reason.
Here is what I have. the bar mount to the chassis to the rear.
The bar mounts to the control arm via the two existing holes in them they are front control arms so they utilize the existing bar mount holes.
Three holes were drilled for the rear mount plates.
The bar is an 1 1/4”
You do need to watch parking stops and curbs as it sits low. Backing in with hit the bar.
The bar is stiff enough on uneven ground it will lift a tire off. Then you can get stuck with a tire spinning. But that is in yards only. Ride is good and neutral. Feels like an 88 with heavier steering.
The spare arms will get the Herb Adams bearing bushings welded in. This eliminates the bump steer.
[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 09-02-2024).]
That's interesting. I can now see how the end of the sway bar sort of fits into that depression on the bottom of the '84-'87 rear control arm. Thanks for taking and uploading those images.
quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:
The bar is stiff enough on uneven ground it will lift a tire off. Then you can get stuck with a tire spinning.
I suspect part of that stiffness is due to the way the end of the sway bar is attached to the control arm. There simply isn't as much mobility with that type of mount compared to using an end link (which can move basically any which way) between the end of the sway bar and the control arm. I can appreciate how your style of sway bar mount would feel quite firm and beneficial on a nice even track surface... but I gotta say, I still have my reservations with that style of sway bar attachment to the control arm being used on a daily-driver driven on regular bumpy roads.
What are your thoughts on this kit being sold by a Forum member?
My thoughts are that it's probably a really fine kit, and might be great for anyone who really needs to fine tune their suspension.
For cheapskates like me, I was very happy with how my '84 felt after I had installed a second front sway bar in the rear of it. The sway bar used in the front was a bit thicker than the one in the back, and I used Dickman's zero lash end links in the front with rubber bushings for the end links in the back. The car was also lowered. I found that this gave my '84 very balanced handling at autocross. If i lost traction in the sweeps, the car would four wheel drift a bit as opposed to "pushing" through the turn, or worse, having the rear end pass the front! I only stopped using my '84 at autocross when I got my Formula, as I wanted more power when exiting the sweeps. Yes, the Formula had much more power, but despite it being an '88, I always preferred how my '84 with it's modified suspension felt on the track.
[EDIT] I found the original thread from 2011 at the local Fiero club's forum (now more or less defunct) where I discussed my 84's rear sway bar installation, so I thought I'd copy it here for easier access.
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
I was quite pleased how well we got the transplanted front sway bar to fit in the back. There were holes already in the control arms in the correct location that only required being made a bit larger. The end link "tubes" were cut down to I believe the width of a finger, and everything lined up great. Notice the "tabs" on the end of the sway bar arms and how parallel they are to the rubber bushings on the end links. Almost perfect!
You'll notice in this shot how there are NO problems with clearance between the head of the end link bolts and the rubber boot of the CVs. No need to cut the top rubber bushing down, lots of room.
The only thing that would've made the job easier would've been if the spacers weren't required for the sway bar mounting brackets, but the holes for them would've required drilling up through the cradle into the control arm bushings. That obviously wouldn't have worked, so using the spacers allowed us to spread the bracket mounting holes further apart, thus avoiding the control arm bushings. (The spacers also allow for more clearance between the sway bar and the exhaust pipe on systems that may require it.)
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 09-03-2024).]
Great handling improvement was gained with the addition of both Adcco front and rear swaybars. Tried it with just the rear Adcco bar and the oversteer was excessive. On the other hand the Fiero Store (Herb Adams) design did work on my other Fiero by just upgrading the rear suspension with one swaybar. In summation; sway bars do improve handling. Bump steer was eliminated.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Fred and I looked at a Fiero that was in the Crawford Museum in Cleveland. It was an early production car and it was used to test rear sway bars by Pontiac. The tires were worn and the bars were still with the car.
They crudely clamped the bars on. It was good enough to test but not production like.
[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 09-02-2024).]
Here is what I have. the bar mount to the chassis to the rear.
The bar mounts to the control arm via the two existing holes in them they are front control arms so they utilize the existing bar mount holes.
Three holes were drilled for the rear mount plates.
The bar is an 1 1/4”
You do need to watch parking stops and curbs as it sits low. Backing in with hit the bar.
The bar is stiff enough on uneven ground it will lift a tire off. Then you can get stuck with a tire spinning. But that is in yards only. Ride is good and neutral. Feels like an 88 with heavier steering.
The spare arms will get the Herb Adams bearing bushings welded in. This eliminates the bump steer.
I couldn't believe it when I first saw it either. (I won't mention which forum member it was who originally posted that.)
Here's another example of how IMO not to do it!
Just no common sense.
These sway bar kits are all over as some people know what they are doing and many don’t. I went with Herbs kit due to the fact he was a long time pontiac engineer and racer for Pontiac.
I remember his Fire Ams that were driven to Daytona, raced on street tires and driven back to Detroit after 24 hours at Daytona.
Adjustable kits were rare and most people would set the most extreme settings and may find it better with less stiffness on the roads.. It takes real testing to really get the best results. So for most non adjustable May be best.
My 86 originally had a sway bar mounted to the rear of the cradle with self-tapping bolts. The thin wall cradle allowed a couple of the bolts to strip out. When I decided to move the bar to the front of the cradle, I had interference problems. Patrick gave me the idea of using a spacer pad. Like he, I had problems with control arm bushings being in the way if I bolted the pad into the cradle, so I did a little redesign of his idea and welded the pads to the front of the cradle. I then drilled an extra hole in the center rib of the control arm so that sway bar force was equal to both bushings and the ball joint. It was a little difficult getting the end link bolts into the holes, being underneath the CV boot, but with a little work, it slides in. Lowered and sitting on low profile 17's,it now steers around curves as easily as an 88.
How rare is this kit and is it any good? A local guy is selling it. Extremely rare 1 1/8" Front and rear Sway bar kit for Fiero years 84, 85, 86 and 87. Quickor Engineering, made in the US Complete. Brand new never installed, poly bushings.
I would think that the torsion bar set-up is the best. You can fine tune your car to how you like it. I still have to make an effort to make it push but never loose. On a circle track. Use all the 2.8l. All I have is some front facing sway bar in the rear with Rodney dickman end links all 4 corners.
Look there is many variables involved here. Sway bars are chosen by doing testing. This solo means the same tires, shocks, ride height and alignment.
Herb Adams did a lot of testing to determine his bars. He specified the set up from springs, shocks, tires and bushings.
I see people bolting on a number of random bars and really do no testing to find the true performance and limits. It is a good thing most never track their bars or they would a guard rail some place.
This is also good racing set ups have a lot of adjustment in them. They also can swap bars fast. They deal with different tracks, temps and even tires compound changes.
So please use care slapping just any bar on any car as the results csn vary much and if you plan yo Ho yo the limits be ready for results test may not be what you may expect.
Sadly so many don’t even get bars Installed properly with no preload.
[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 11-11-2024).]
That seems a little odd to me, but I'm no expert by any means.
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