So I took the plunge and I'm bringing my Fiero to a garage today. Inspection is coming up soon and I know there are a few things that needs to be done before it makes even a slight chance of passing inspection. And I simply don't have the time or space to do it myseld. I trust the person who is going to work on my car - I've actually bought the car from the place where he used to work as a mechanic and he is one of the most knowledgeable persons (when it comes to Fieros) that I know.
That said, I know a lot needs to be done and first thing he is going to look at is if it is even worth it. If not, then I will need to part ways with the Fiero I've owned for almost 30 years.
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: So I took the plunge and I'm bringing my Fiero to a garage today.
That said, I know a lot needs to be done and first thing he is going to look at is if it is even worth it. If not, then I will need to part ways with the Fiero I've owned for almost 30 years.
So keeping my fingers crossed!
I myself am going to allow others to work on my vehicles.
We have all been in that sticky wicket. "Worth it", is up to the owner, not the mechanic. When I wonder, I always think of where would I be able to get another one.
How much would it cost to replace, and what unknown problems would a different car present?
That's a bit of the problem... If I would sell this Fiero and get another one, I would have no idea what repairs might be just around the corner. I might actually be worse off than my current Fiero. A fastback Fiero is at least $6,000 and again, it could very well be just another money pit.
Ok, so they did a first check to see what needed to be done for the inspection and it was mostly the things I expected except for one thing. It turns out one of the structural beams is badly rusted and needs to be welded. Since they don't do big welding jobs themselves, they need to consult with an external welder first.
I trust these guys 100% so if they say this needs to be done I know for a fact this needs to be done. Not sure what big of a job this is so I have no idea yet how much it's going to cost.
Ok, so they did a first check to see what needed to be done for the inspection and it was mostly the things I expected except for one thing. It turns out one of the structural beams is badly rusted and needs to be welded. Since they don't do big welding jobs themselves, they need to consult with an external welder first.
I trust these guys 100% so if they say this needs to be done I know for a fact this needs to be done. Not sure what big of a job this is so I have no idea yet how much it's going to cost.
Do you know what beams it is they're talking about? Is it the cradle, or the upper frame rails?
I'm not sure exactly which they were talking about but they said they could see my carpet through it. But come to think of it, I'm not sure which carpet either. From the interior or the rear compartment?
I'm not sure exactly which they were talking about but they said they could see my carpet through it. But come to think of it, I'm not sure which carpet either. From the interior or the rear compartment?
They might be referring to the rear frame rails. Really, if the sheet metal around the trunk is rusted out, that doesn't really mean anything. Even light rust through on the upper frame rails isn't the end of the world, It's only when it starts to rot around the spring perch (significantly) that it creates a safety issue because your suspension / handling can be affected. The good news is... it doesn't have to be done "well," just done right... and with the rear shell coming off, as long as they can repair it, it doesn't really matter what it looks like.
Yeah, I don't think they were talking about the frame rails. It was under the car. I can now vaguely remember seeing it being rusted a few years back when I was doing some work on my rear brakes. I think me living near the sea now (and my car being parked outside 24/7) has sped up the rusting.
I got a "quote" from the garage. Not yet in moneys, but in hours. They think it will take them 40 hours in total. That's not only for repairing the things to get the car through inspection, but pretty much all repairs I asked them a quote for, which are:
- Replace exhaust headers and gasket - Replace motor mounts (3x) and dog bone - Repair small holes in exhaust - Replace oil + filter - Replace spark plugs - Replace fuel filter - Replace transmission oil filter + gasket - Replace belt - Replace oil sensor - Replace brake pads - Completely replace all transmission lines for copper tubes - Weld the cradle
And they also said something about replacing the oil seals (while the engine is out of the car)
I've got all parts already but for the last thing, they said I needed an oil pan gasket and front & rear crankshaft seals. I will order those at RockAuto, but can anyone help me choose the proper one?
I've got all parts already but for the last thing, they said I needed an oil pan gasket and front & rear crankshaft seals. I will order those at RockAuto, but can anyone help me choosing the proper one?
For the oil pan gasket, DEFINITELY go with the molded rubber (the two last ones), and for the rear main seal and crankshaft gasket... go with the one made of viton (in my opinion). But please wait until you hear opinions from others.
For the oil pan gasket, DEFINITELY go with the molded rubber (the two last ones),
If Cliff has an 86, the rubber gaskets likely won't work. 87 and 88 - and later V6s - used a front cover that is like a SBC V8. The 86 and earlier had a sloped sealing surface on the bottom of the front/timing cover. Used the cork gasket. I can't say that I have ever seen a suitable rubber replacement.
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 09-04-2024).]
Ugh, Please make sure you print out a few copies of the proper jack points and tell everyone you don't want them to crimp the coolant tubes - that coolant tube looks "ok", but still...
The guy working on my Fiero has worked on literally hundreds of Fieros in his life. So yeah, I was wondering about that jack point as well but if he jacks it like this, I know he has a very good reason for it.
Seriously, this guy would probably run circles around theogre when it comes to Fiero knowledge. I have tried to get him on the forum but he simply lost interest in Fieros some time ago. He's now restoring old (as in 60s) Firebirds.
The guy working on my Fiero has worked on literally hundreds of Fieros in his life. So yeah, I was wondering about that jack point as well but if he jacks it like this, I know he has a very good reason for it.
Seriously, this guy would probably run circles around theogre when it comes to Fiero knowledge. I have tried to get him on the forum but he simply lost interest in Fieros some time ago. He's now restoring old (as in 60s) Firebirds.
That's awesome that you found another Fiero mechanic in the Netherlands to work on your car. That rust is a little bit brutal, never seen those rusted before, but the rest looks pretty good... AND, it's easily accessible for them to fix. So that's good!!!
Also, remember there is NO STRUCTURE in the last 2 feet of rocker on Fieros!!!
I added something to your image... to show where I believe the Fiero jack point is in this picture. There must be some "structure" at that point to support the car. When I'm removing wheels from a Fiero, I use a hydraulic floor jack where the vehicle's jack would normally go. I modified a hockey puck (Canadian, eh!) to use on the head of the floor jack to better fit and support a Fiero in that area. Would I get under a Fiero when supported in only that manner? Not a chance!
Actually, this is only labor since I already have every single part needed for all repairs...
And yes, I trust this mechanic. Like I said he has worked on countless Fiero's before and if there's one person in the Netherlands who knows everything about Fieros, it's him.
Cliff, my concern would be how much "rot" would still be left on your GT. If that labour includes actually remedying the cradle/frame rust problem, then fine... but if after spending all that money, you're still left with a rust-bucket, then it might be time to move on from that particular Fiero.
IMO, $3,900 is a fairly high estimate but you probably will not be able to purchase another Fiero for that. A good metal man should be able to fabricate contoured patches, and mig weld in new metal to make the frame as good as new. They may have to remove the carpet and that is a lot of work
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
40 hours of work alone would be $6,000 around here...
Thought experiment: They repair the Fiero 4K and its "good"(reliable). Now, pretend its not your car. You walk up to them and you agree to lease a Fiero for 4K. You plop down 4 K and you are able to own the car 3-4 years. Lets say 4 years. Its 1,000 a year to own your favorite car. Under 100 a month for your car payment. Then, after 4 years, you part ways with it. Is that worth it? 100 bucks a month to continue the relationship. The car COULD last longer, but even if it goes for another few years, and you enjoy it, that's worth it to me.
To get a different Fiero is a crap shoot... One problem is that at this point, almost every Fiero found in the wild has its share of hidden torments...even a "pristine" one for 15-20k has all old rubber and sensors and whatnot... the current one I got seemed ok, but wow, there were a lot of issues.
If the engine is 'good', I'd say its worth the repair. You recently had other stuiff replaced, rediator or coolant system or heater or somethin'(sorry, brain stinks now) but that's other stuff you shouldn't have to worry about for a few years...
I'd say, stick with that Fiero - It's pretty (just like YOU!)
40 hours including welding and pulling the engine, with the list above, all sounds like maybe a couple grand, but not bad at all.
