No, they won't. What you are describing is NOT how politics works nor is it how it ever has worked in the real world, left, right, or independent. Most of his base will stick with him come hell or high water, as you have seen.
In defence of what I stated, I wasn't referring to reality-TV-show-watching riff-raff... such as whom we witnessed storming the Capitol a week and a half ago. I had mentioned "responsible" Republicans. Anyone who truly cares for the US of A, and not for Trump the showman, will wish to distance themselves. Obviously, that's just my opinion. YMMV
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
As further information becomes available pertaining to the extent of Trump's total incompetence in office, more and more responsible Republicans will wish to wash their hands of him. It's already begun.
In defence of what I stated, I wasn't referring to reality-TV-show-watching riff-raff... such as whom we witnessed storming the Capitol a week and a half ago. I had mentioned "responsible" Republicans. Anyone who truly cares for the US of A*, and not for Trump the showman, will wish to distance themselves. Obviously, that's just my opinion. YMMV
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Patrick:
As further information becomes available pertaining to the extent of Trump's total incompetence in office, more and more responsible Republicans will wish to wash their hands of him. It's already begun.
[/QUOTE]
I doubt for his base out in the electorate, he has lost many supporters at all. Those in the political realm tho, (congress) have their future election careers to worry about and may project differently. I was not speaking of reality show supporters either. Many of the people that were at the steps of congress last week were and probably still are very serious supporters of President Trump, as are many millions of Americans that stayed home.
*Anyone who truly cares for the US of A, Perception is very important in politics Patrick.
Many, if not most conservatives today (Jan18) fervently believe President Trump is still the answer and Biden is at best, a senile old satan, intent upon converting the USA into a hog trough of socialism under the banner of progressiveness.
I just wish next election, the Lizardheads would just present themselves as they really are and get on their own ticket. Judging from all the conspiracy theories floating about, posted and re-posted/shared by what I had always thought were reasonable people (for the most part) I think America has evidently now reached the point they can handle the truth.
Actually, I believe you interjected an opinion first and you are correct, I replied. I thought it was ironic that one who was so opposed to DJT and his policies would not appear to care about the loss of jobs in Canada and the effect canceling the pipeline would have on Canada.
What you fail to either remember or understand, I am not and have never been a Trumper or a Trump fan. I simply agreed with the direction he was trying to take this country. As I previously stated, this pipeline was good for both the USA and Canada. President (elect) Biden policies are going to cost the USA more than we can afford and now it appears he will cost Canada some also.
Try to get past your Trumper Hate and consider what the pipeline could have done for your own country.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 01-18-2021).]
Economically, the Keystone is important, but a LOT has changed since Keystone was first envisioned. One of the things (more so than solar or wind) that has decreased it's importance is the Texas/New Mexico Permian Basin, the EagleFord and other shale plays. Opponents of the Canadian oil say (among other things) that we don't need it now that all the other big areas are producing so much. There is 'some' validity to that, for now as there is a huge glut of crude on the world market, and even tho the US is no longer dependent on foreign oil, it should be kept in mind, that new exploration and development has slowed down considerably. A full belt with extras cans is always preferable to just a few rounds left.
It will cost many millions to abandon the Keystone. It's been partially completed for some time, the first section put into service approx 10 years ago and has been transporting oil. In 2019, according to CER, it produced 213M net income on 535M revenue. There was a trust fund set up thru various regulatory agencies, to cover the cost of abandonment, de-construction at the end of it's useful life. The plan was to collect tolls for 25 years to fully fund the abandonment trust fund. Canada's CER estimated it would cost 268 million up to the ND, USA border. As of 2019, there was 64,300,000 in that trust fund.
It is possible that the USA portion of the line may be re-purposed to transort other products, but that won't be cheap or without the prospect of opposition.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 01-18-2021).]
Economically, the Keystone is important, but a LOT has changed since Keystone was first envisioned. One of the things (more so than solar or wind) that has decreased it's importance is the Texas/New Mexico Permian Basin, the EagleFord and other shale plays. Opponents of the Canadian oil say (among other things) that we don't need it now that all the other big areas are producing so much. There is 'some' validity to that, for now as there is a huge glut of crude on the world market, and even tho the US is no longer dependent on foreign oil, it should be kept in mind, that new exploration and development has slowed down considerably. A full belt with extras cans is always preferable to just a few rounds left.
Agreed.
Being prepared with a pipeline in place seems like a logical thing to do when we know it will be needed at some point in the future. It being there also offers all concerned options versus not having it. That's not even considering the economic benefit to those building and supplying the pipeline. There will be government money spent, why not spend it putting people to work. To me, killing this project is dumb.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 01-18-2021).]
Most, of the Keystone pipeline is in place and operating. It runs from Canada to the Dakotas, As far as I've heard, the permit being pulled is not the operating permit for Keystone, but it is the construction permit for KeystoneXL which runs thru Montana, over and diagonally thru SD and Nebraska and joins up with the original Keystone. From there, it goes south to Oklahoma's big hub at Cushing. I haven't read which parts of the line will be affected, tho I doubt the line from Cushing OK to the Tx coast will be. On the lower end, part of this same Keystone (phase 3b) runs just a few miles from my house.
Originally posted by cvxjet: You don't actually have to look at what is going on...
It's evident you don't.
Your President, Donald J Trump, despite not promising it, achieved making us energy independent. Every recently Presidential candidate made those promises.
If they did build the pipeline (extension) would the workers that monitor it for leaks or other malfunctions and for security purposes be called the "Keystone cops"..?
Most major pipelines nowadays are monitored by computerized electronics and fiber optics or laser technology. The days of driving or overflyng a line on a daily or weekly basis are all but gone.
Actually, I believe you interjected an opinion first...
"Interjected"? I responded on topic to a comment from Wichita about Canada. Isn't this what a forum is all about, an exchange of differing opinions? Or is all you're interested in is an echo chamber for you and your like-minded buddies?
quote
Originally posted by blackrams:
I thought it was ironic that one who was so opposed to DJT and his policies would not appear to care about the loss of jobs in Canada and the effect canceling the pipeline would have on Canada.
Try to get past your Trumper Hate and consider what the pipeline could have done for your own country.
Try to get past your anyone-not-Trumper Hate and understand that I can agree with perhaps one policy that DJT endorsed. Every other policy of his regarding Canada (ie tariffs on steel and aluminum) did nothing but hurt both the US and Canada.
The average price of a gallon of regular unleaded gasoline in the United States was $1.84 on Jan. 19, 2009--the day before Obama took office.
As of Monday, Feb. 11, 2013, the per-gallon price had risen to an average of $3.61--an increase of 96 percent.
Expect to see similar or even higher increases as Leftists continue to attempt to kill the US economy.
As a reminder, increased fuel prices also increase the prices of all goods and services.
All the more reason jobs that CAN be done from home, with no commute, should be. But then I have also heard chatter about possibly taxing folks more somehow for working from home.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 01-19-2021).]
Gas in my area went from $1.99/ gallon $2.22/ gallon in the past month. Yesterday some stations had the price of $2.39/ gallon for regular. I call it the Biden effect. Dementia Joe wants to spend $$ for Arab oil where his family probably gets a cut of the $$ going to them.
Gas in my area went from $1.99/ gallon $2.22/ gallon in the past month. Yesterday some stations had the price of $2.39/ gallon for regular. I call it the Biden effect. Dementia Joe wants to spend $$ for Arab oil where his family probably gets a cut of the $$ going to them.
Now Lar, His son, Hunter is an energy expert. I'm sure this will all work out to someone's benefit.........
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 01-19-2021).]
We have a pipeline airplane doing a flyover very regularly in this area.
I'm not qualified to suggest that all pipe lines are modernized to the point Don was saying, I would think it would take time, money, equipment and some folks smarter than me to get this done on older pipe lines but, I would have to defer to those that know.
What I would ask is how you know this is a pipe line aircraft?
I know several VFR pilots that follow roads, rail road tracks, major electrical lines and even pipe lines to get to or near destinations. These are pilots that never learned terrain navigation. I'm not saying you're wrong but am questioning whether or not you're sure and if so, how?
Making the Keystone pipeline safe would be a bit difficult; It was supposed to be buried 4 feet underground. Possibly running it inside another outer "Safety pipe" with detectors for intrusion of leaking oil...
I like the idea of using pipelines for oil transportation, but I hate Eminent domain and just giving the OIL industry whatever it wants....
While oil profits will go up, the cost to counter flooding of coastal cities will "Break the bank".....
Still don't understand what is so evil about Solar Power......All homes should have solar panels and then be energy independent.
Making the Keystone pipeline safe would be a bit difficult; It was supposed to be buried 4 feet underground. Possibly running it inside another outer "Safety pipe" with detectors for intrusion of leaking oil...
I like the idea of using pipelines for oil transportation, but I hate Eminent domain and just giving the OIL industry whatever it wants....
While oil profits will go up, the cost to counter flooding of coastal cities will "Break the bank".....
Still don't understand what is so evil about Solar Power......All homes should have solar panels and then be energy independent.
I don't see any way how they could be energy independent with it. Its not evil, but is expensive, as with most "alternatives" they work in some places and not others. It is somewhat effective in paces where the sun doesnt stop shining (except at night), not much effective in places like Minnesota where coulds are usual, and daylight hours are short in the winter, which also happens to be when furnaces are sucking energy running 24/7 to keep buildings warm. They try wind up here too, theres quite a bit of wind, its still not real efficient. But I don't doubt they'll try and make us do it anyway.
Still don't understand what is so evil about Solar Power......All homes should have solar panels and then be energy independent.
I'm certainly not against solar power, but it's not a source of power that's without problems/challenges of it's own... from both the manufacture of the panels and with the disposal of them at their end of life.
Fabricating the panels requires caustic chemicals such as sodium hydroxide and hydrofluoric acid, and the process uses water as well as electricity, the production of which emits greenhouse gases. It also creates waste. These problems could undercut solar's ability to fight climate change and reduce environmental toxics.
The silicon used to make the vast majority of today's photovoltaic cells is abundant, but a "silicon-based solar cell requires a lot of energy input in its manufacturing process," said Northwestern's You. The source of that energy, which is often coal, he added, determines how large the cell's carbon footprint is.
I looked into Solar when constructing my new home. Very expensive with a life span of less than twenty years as I remember. The south side of my home would have been loaded up with solar panels. Just wasn't feasible with the expense and ROI. This also makes the price of home ownership much more costly. I don't know about you but, my home is the biggest investment of my life. I don't need to add cost to something with such a low ROI. What about all those folks that live in large apartment buildings, are home owners expected to carry the entire cost for them to have cheap energy? There will have to be significant improvements to make those systems more efficient and last longer before they will ever be on every home. Not all of us live in the Sun Shine State so, Solar doesn't make sense in a lot of places.
I'm not qualified to suggest that all pipe lines are modernized to the point Don was saying, I would think it would take time, money, equipment and some folks smarter than me to get this done on older pipe lines but, I would have to defer to those that know.
What I would ask is how you know this is a pipe line aircraft?
I know several VFR pilots that follow roads, rail road tracks, major electrical lines and even pipe lines to get to or near destinations. These are pilots that never learned terrain navigation. I'm not saying you're wrong but am questioning whether or not you're sure and if so, how?
Rams
On older and shorter legacy pipelines, I'm sure they still are being overflown or monitored via high definition satellite, or even by vehicle but that is an extremely poor, expensive, and in-efficient way to get the job done and gives very little early indication of leakage in underground lines. Running pipeline pigs with robotic sensing aren't much better.
How do they make older ones safer? Legacy pipelines get a thorough inspection internally, potential trouble spots identified are exposed by excavation and if corrosion is indicated, an in-situ internal sleeve is installed, either a hard sleeve or a robotically 'deposited' lining. Modern technology has radically changed how the pipeline industry does things.
I am not worried about the "Save the world" part of it....I am more worried about the Safety, and the ED problem. The Oil industry has become more and more like Mafia thugs the way they try to get whatever they want; Of course, ED, but also the Oklahoma Fracking quakes and the State legislature banning local governments from being able to have a say in fracking in their area.
Also, I think a push for solar technology could lead to much more efficient solar panels...and a push for battery storage devices could lead to better batteries...
The US used to lead in technology development because of all the crazy ideas that mixed together, but now both (All sides) just yell and scream.......D.U.M.B.
Well...I am dying from Lupus induced by the prescription drug Omeprazole...Maybe 4-6 years and I'll be toast....and I have no children. So I'm not really worried about what happens to the Earth.......It will shrug and the human race will be gone, just like the dinosaurs (Although they didn't cause their own die-off)...
Something new will come along in a billion years after the Earth has stabilized again.
The Oil industry has been very resourceful in buying up failed scientists to cast doubt on anthropogenic Climate change......They have been able to keep their profits at a very high rate and obviously don't care about future generations......A friend of mine was laughing at how the "City dwellers" were crying about sea-level rise "They deserve what they get- stupid liberals!" but when I pointed out the big problem would be un-predictable weather causing starvation he was somewhat surprised; "You mean crop failures would be common enough to lead to starvation in the US?" "Yep-r-do!"
I think he still believes that "God gave us the Earth to exploit! He wouldn't allow us to wreck it!" (To which I reply, "God helps those that help themselves" and "If god is going to help you that much, then go jump off a cliff and pray he saves you on the way down!" (Never met anyone who would give that a try......
What I would ask is how you know this is a pipe line aircraft?
Rams
It flies WAY lower than all other small planes, it always follows the pipeline markers in the ground and the wings read PIPELINE something so people on the ground might figure out he isn't crashing. Saw it last week.
The power provider used helicopters last I saw for transmission lines.
Looks like Canada's Black Face Trudeau is concerned about the pipeline and is in touch with Biden to hopefully prevent the retreads from stopping the Keystone XL Pipeline.
Looks like Canada's Black Face Trudeau is concerned about the pipeline and is in touch with Biden to hopefully prevent the retreads from stopping the Keystone XL Pipeline.
I guess Canada is going to have to find Hunter a board seat.
I really doubt Canada is going to change Biden's mind, their oil isn't really needed at this time. Though, I do firmly support their efforts, I'd rather us use their oil so we don't have to our oil.. I don't believe the price difference is significant. Feel free to correct me if I am incorrect on that.
I really doubt Canada is going to change Biden's mind, their oil isn't really needed at this time. Though, I do firmly support their efforts, I'd rather us use their oil so we don't have to our oil.. I don't believe the price difference is significant. Feel free to correct me if I am incorrect on that.
Rams
You are, partly wrong. Unlike babies, not all oil is created equal. Even tho we as a nation are a net exporter of crude oil and refined crude products, it isn't true for all states. People think oil is cheap to ship/transport. It isn't. It IS,complicated. Pipelines are generally owned by pipeline companies with sometimes a refining company owning a share of it, but federal law requires the ownership to allow any refinery or midstream company access to the lines as long as there is capacity available and the user pays the tolls. Cost/bbl/mile and, it is also dependent on the spot price (value of the product) and the type crude or finished product being pumped thru the line. For the Canada side of the Keystone, the cost is calculated on cu litre and not the standard 42 gal bbl. It's cost also depends where the oil is going (it's destination) Looking at the tolls on Dec 31 2020, heavy crude pumped from Hardisty, Alberta to the U.S. border near Haskett Manitoba, with deliver to Houston Texas it cost the destination $16.53/cu ltr. On the same day, heavy crude from the same source going to Cushing Ok cost $19.38. Crude going to Wood River/Patoka Ill cost $17.50/cu ltr the same date. Why was it cheaper to ship all the way to Houston--because they have what is known as a 20 yr committed contract for certain oil coming thru the Keystone. Cushing and Patoka have comitted contracts for some products, and are uncomitted for others. In the above case, they were getting oil not comitted to their contract.
It's complicated.. Only the Gulf Coast states and NM are really energy independent, with most of the other states dependent on gulf coast oil or foreign oil. That mostly means Canada and Mexico currently. Why? Gravity, terrain, distance. It is extremely difficult (and costly) to pump crude oil from the Gulf Coast over the Rockies, Appalacians and Smokey Mountains and of course, the distance is a big factor as well. Even without the mountains, LA Calif, Patoka Illinois, Cushing Ok, Hardisty Alberta are all higher above sea level than Houston Tx by hundreds of feet. (Hardisty Alberta is nearly 2000' higher in elevation than Houston) Almost all the crude we import from Canada ends up at Gulf Coast refineries and it is predominantly heavy high sulfur crude oil. High sulfur oil is often called sour oil as opposed to light sweet crude that is found on 'some' of the gulf coast and the West Texas Permian Basin. West Texas Intermediate is one of the 3 benchmark crude oils traded on the world market. (The Gulf Coast DOES produce a lot of heavy sour crude. The other 2 benchmarks are Brent (NorthSea) and Dubai.) The benchmark designations have more to do with availability and destination than specific gravity or sulfur content. Within those benchmarks are various other & more definitive designations for different types of crude. Another aspect is TAN.. total acid number. Much of the oil produced today has a higher TAN and it is more corrosive to pipelines and processing equipment.
it's complicated.. The crude being transported thru Keystone from Canada is called WCS. Western Canadian Select. Tar sands crude are thick and are bituminous and will NOT flow well as produced. It's either strip mined of forced to flow by high pressure steam which heats it up and makes it less viscous. To be transported very far, they have to be diluted with something thinner in order for the product to be pumped. There is a product at the wellhead of many conventional oil wells called condensate. We used to call it 'drip gas'. Thin, highly flamable and it could be burned right from the wellhead in farm equipment and early automobiles. This is often used to dilute the btumen 'oil' but there isn't enough of it so they use synthetic oil to thin it with. The product that comes across in the Keystone from the oil sands is actually known as Dilbit. Diluted Bitumen. This, will usually get blended with non Dilbit at the destination. Almost all Gulf Coast refiners can and do process heavy high sulfur crude, while refiners on the East coasts and in the heartland usually do not. California refiners like Phillips66 can and do processheavy high sulfur crude and Calif, uses a combination of regional produced oil but previpously imported a lot of South American and Mexican crude via tanker ship.
Heavy sour crude historically came at a discount. It was cheaper, but. (again, it's complicated) with the ban on Venezuela and Iranian oil, heavy sour crude has become harder to get.. and thus, more expensive. The spread between light sweet and heavy sour has narrowed enough that some refiners that had planned to add cokers (they remove sulfur) to existing or new units have cancelled those plans. What effect the permit loss for KeystoneXL will have is yet unknown, but I suspect if the spread between domestic light sweet and imported heavy sour again increases, we will see increases at the retail level.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 01-20-2021).]
Biden has only one opinion on every subject and that is, Whatever "they" tell me is politically expedient is what I think. The man has no character and no beliefs.
I suspect if the spread between domestic light sweet and imported heavy sour again increases, we will see increases at the retail level.
Some of what you just posted I was aware of but I learned quite a bit reading it. The end result we are agreed on but, not simply due to the canceling of the pipeline but due to the Harris/Biden goals.
Gravity... Hardisty Alberta is nearly 2000' higher in elevation than Houston
Interesting. Have to admit that I hadn't considered the gravity of the situation.
Seems to me that politics aside, it would benefit both Canadian and American interests for the Keystone XL pipeline to continue.
Full disclosure... I'd prefer that Alberta crude not be shipped out through the Port of Vancouver to wherever. I'd hate to see a Exxon Valdez type disaster occur locally.
Do they pump across the Smoky Mountains/Appalachians or go up the valleys and around the mountains with taps for destinations to the higher elevations, then truck it to little communities?
I looked into Solar when constructing my new home. Very expensive with a life span of less than twenty years as I remember. The south side of my home would have been loaded up with solar panels. Just wasn't feasible with the expense and ROI. This also makes the price of home ownership much more costly. I don't know about you but, my home is the biggest investment of my life. I don't need to add cost to something with such a low ROI. What about all those folks that live in large apartment buildings, are home owners expected to carry the entire cost for them to have cheap energy? There will have to be significant improvements to make those systems more efficient and last longer before they will ever be on every home. Not all of us live in the Sun Shine State so, Solar doesn't make sense in a lot of places.
Rams
I had installed solar on my house in 2018. My electric bill has dropped considerably. The solar panels (21 in total) are on the east, south and west side of my house. ROI is maybe break even as the panels cost $23K . My complaint is that I receive a daily or two calls per day wanting me to "invest" in solar for my house "at no cost". Scam calls. Living in Florida it sort of makes sense as we do get lots of sun. The solar power generated gets fed back into Florida Power and Light's grid.
Some think the panels are ugly, but the only ones you can see are a few on the front of my house. My highest electric bill was $43 (it was really hot in October) with $6.80 in taxes. My usual bill runs from $9.60- $16.00 including taxes. Prior to the solar my electric bill ran from $110-300/ month. (again October always seemed to be the highest bill).
I had installed solar on my house in 2018. My electric bill has dropped considerably. The solar panels (21 in total) are on the east, south and west side of my house. ROI is maybe break even as the panels cost $23K . My complaint is that I receive a daily or two calls per day wanting me to "invest" in solar for my house "at no cost". Scam calls. Living in Florida it sort of makes sense as we do get lots of sun. The solar power generated gets fed back into Florida Power and Light's grid.
Some think the panels are ugly, but the only ones you can see are a few on the front of my house. My highest electric bill was $43 (it was really hot in October) with $6.80 in taxes. My usual bill runs from $9.60- $16.00 including taxes. Prior to the solar my electric bill ran from $110-300/ month. (again October always seemed to be the highest bill).
Good, I'm glad it's working out for you.
My original estimate for Solar Panel installation, everything needed was just over $32,000 as I remember. Adding them would have meant we didn't get something else we wanted. Just couldn't justify it myself but, that's me.
If you're looking for energy independence or lowering dependence or even supplementing for times of outages then that has a value aside from lowering bills on a grid tied system.
Not sure a grid tied system is that attractive to me. But then again you pay a minimum monthly electric charge already.
Looking at Colonial Pipeline's supply system they don't traverse mountain ranges from Houston to NYC.
I responded on topic to 
I'm not saying you're wrong but am questioning whether or not you're sure and if so, how?
