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Are Russian nukes as decrepit as their conventional weapons? by Raydar
Started on: 03-14-2022 03:10 PM
Replies: 173 (2787 views)
Last post by: olejoedad on 06-23-2022 04:05 PM
Hudini
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Report this Post03-16-2022 10:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If he were a gymnast he would win gold every time with those mental jumps. You like the color yellow SO YOU MUST WANT EVERYONE DEAD! wtf?
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Report this Post03-16-2022 10:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
He doesn't take himself seriously. It's just an attempt to get a reaction.
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olejoedad
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Report this Post03-16-2022 11:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sourmash:

The American Indian tribes did the same to each other and a few even feasted on human meat, whether as a celebration or otherwise.

America was created by a more advanced society overtaking a dramatically underdeveloped people as happens throughout history.


And it's pretty much been that way since the beginning of time....
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Report this Post03-17-2022 02:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FatsSend a Private Message to FatsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:

So...You like "Good Christians" like the ones who raped and murdered all them damn dirty savage injuns because God said it was "Manifest destiny" to take the Americas and ...."Cleanse them"

Remember to NOT celebrate Thanksgiving....that is a celebration that includes the idea of religious freedom....for all religions and even non-religious....You obviously want to beat anyone >>Not like you<< into submission....

"good" christians.......(Absolute power corrupts......)




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Raydar
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Report this Post03-17-2022 11:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sourmash:
...
You guys really believe what your media has been telling you? Geez.



 
quote
Originally posted by sourmash:

I like how you assumed my post was all about you. The entire thread is filled with msm programming.
My guy is not my guy. It's hearsay.


You did say "you guys". Last time I looked, I was a contributor, here. You didn't specify.
And yes... hearsay. Everything is hearsay. Or opinion. Right up until it happens. Or doesn't.

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Report this Post03-21-2022 05:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
"The Smaller Bombs That Could Turn Ukraine Into a Nuclear War Zone"
William J. Broad for the New York Times; March 21, 2022.
https://www.nytimes.com/202...nuclear-ukraine.html

"The bomb's in your court..." (excerpt)
 
quote
A U.S. response to a small Russian [nuclear] blast, experts say, might be to fire one of the new [U.S.] submarine-launched [nuclear] warheads into the wilds of Siberia or at a military base inside Russia. Mr. Miller, the former government nuclear official and a former chairman of NATO’s nuclear policy committee, said such a blast would be a way of signaling to Moscow that “this is serious, that things are getting out of hand.”

Military strategists say a tit-for-tat rejoinder would throw the responsibility for further escalation back at Russia, making Moscow feel its ominous weight and ideally keeping the situation from spinning out of control despite the dangers in war of miscalculation and accident.
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Report this Post03-21-2022 06:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

rinselberg

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"I'm cutting back. Give me '2 percent' please..." (excerpt)
 
quote
In 2010, [President] Obama, who had long advocated for a “nuclear-free world,” decided to refurbish and improve the NATO weapons, turning them into smart bombs with maneuverable fins that made their targeting highly precise. That, in turn, gave war planners the freedom to lower the weapons’ variable explosive force to as little as 2 percent of that of the Hiroshima bomb.

The reduced blast capability made breaking the nuclear taboo “more thinkable,” Gen. James E. Cartwright, a vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff under Mr. Obama, warned at the time. He nonetheless backed the program because the high degree of precision lowered the risk of collateral damage and civilian casualties. But after years of funding and manufacturing delays, the refurbished bomb, known as the B61 Model 12, is not expected to be deployed in Europe until next year...

The Little Boy atomic bomb that destroyed Hiroshima had a 15 kiloton yield. So, 2 percent of that comes in as the nuclear equivalent of just 300 tons of conventional explosive.
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Report this Post03-21-2022 08:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

"In 2010, [President] Obama, who had long advocated for a “nuclear-free world,” decided to refurbish and improve the NATO weapons, turning them into smart bombs with maneuverable fins that made their targeting highly precise."



That is absolute horseshit.


The reason that Leftists like you believe horseshit like that is because you know nothing about the military or military weapons, and nothing about history.

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Report this Post03-21-2022 08:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The U.S. B61-12 "dial-a-yield" nuclear bomb was green-lighted during the presidency of "Irish" Barack Obama.

Don't believe it?


Oh, wait--the bomb.


A nifty little dial or dial-like control mechanism allows a B61-12 nuclear bomb to be yield-adjusted, to explode with the equivalent of just 300 tons of conventional explosive, or it can be dialed up all the way to 340 kilotons. Just a 1/50 fraction of the Little Boy atomic bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima, on the low end, to over 22 times as much yield as the Hiroshima bomb on the high end.
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Report this Post03-21-2022 09:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

I think that Russia's nuclear arsenal is in top shape.


 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

The U.S. B61-12 "dial-a-yield" nuclear bomb...


It's rather sad that as a species, we put so much money/effort/research into devising more and more sophisticated ways of destroying ourselves.

Stuff like this makes me doubtful that we'll ever discover (or be discovered by) a more advanced extraterrestrial civilization. Why? Because I wouldn't be surprised if every civilization, no matter where it's located in the cosmos, eventually destroys itself once it attains a certain level of technology. I suspect the relatively optimistic future as portrayed by Star Trek is nothing but a pipe dream.

I'm not usually this negative, but the situation in Ukraine is such a painful reminder that over the centuries, mankind hasn't learned a damn thing.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 03-21-2022).]

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Report this Post03-21-2022 10:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

It's rather sad that as a species, we put so much money/effort/research into devising more and more sophisticated ways of destroying ourselves.


Actually, the species would never improve if man did not defend himself.

The aggressor has the element of surprise on his side, he knows when and how he will attack. The normally peaceful defender must be more cleaver than his adversary in order to thrive.

If the aggressor always defeats his prey, the species will never advance beyond that violent, aggressive culture.

Mankind grows wiser and safer, century by century and millennium after millennium, precisely because he devises more powerful weapons.

WWI and WWII were scarcely more than two decades apart. We have not yet entered WWIII precisely because of the looming threat of nuclear weapons.
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Report this Post03-21-2022 11:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by williegoat:

Mankind grows wiser and safer, century by century and millennium after millennium, precisely because he devises more powerful weapons.


Up to a certain level of weaponry, I could agree with you... but we've now gone so far past that point.

 
quote
Originally posted by williegoat:

WWI and WWII were scarcely more than two decades apart. We have not yet entered WWIII precisely because of the looming threat of nuclear weapons.


It's only been 77 years since the end of WWII... a proverbial drop in the bucket of time.

Willie, I hope you're right, and I'm proven wrong.
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Report this Post03-21-2022 11:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A thousand years ago, there was nothing to stop someone from breaking down your door, whacking you with a stick and stealing everything you had. A spoonful of lead and a little powder changed that.

One hundred years ago, the world was a very dangerous place, quite literally a powder keg. We sat squarely between two cataclysmic global conflicts. We have not had a war near that scale in nearly eighty years because we now have weapons that are much more terrible than powder.

How many times in the last month have you heard that no one wants to escalate the war in Ukraine because someone might bring out the "big guns"? If no one had nukes, do you think Putin would have hesitated to go all out with chemical, biological and thermobaric weapons?

An armed society is a polite society.

[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 03-21-2022).]

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Report this Post03-22-2022 12:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by williegoat:

An armed society is a polite society.


I dunno... we're presently seeing quite a display of bad manners in Europe.

 
quote
Originally posted by williegoat:

How many times in the last month have you heard that no one wants to escalate the war in Ukraine because someone might bring out the "big guns"?


I'm afraid that escalation of the war (and/or spin-offs from it) are still very much a grim possibility. Again, I hope I'm wrong.
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Report this Post03-22-2022 12:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So, do you believe that the world was a safer place 500 years ago, when guns were rare and no one had nukes?

Watch this brief presentation, or search for yourself. The world will be safer tomorrow than it was yesterday. Mankind always advances. We have the advantage of the wisdom and experience of those who came before us.

https://slides.ourworldinda...olence/#/title-slide

[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 03-22-2022).]

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Report this Post03-22-2022 12:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by williegoat:

So, do you believe that the world was a safer place 500 years ago, when guns were rare and no one had nukes?


Yes, I believe mankind as a whole was much safer 500 years ago. It would've been pretty difficult to have killed everyone on the planet with crossbows and muskets.
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Report this Post03-22-2022 12:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

Yes, I believe mankind as a whole was much safer 500 years ago. It would've been pretty difficult to have killed everyone on the planet with crossbows and muskets.

The preponderance of data just doesn't support your belief. Whether by warfare or violent crime, the world continues to become safer with each passing century.

https://www.vrc.crim.cam.ac...ends-in-violence.pdf

Everyone remembers Barry McGuire, but no one remembers The Spokesmen. Why do you think that is?

[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 03-22-2022).]

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Report this Post03-22-2022 12:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by williegoat:

...the world continues to become safer with each passing century.


Your definition of "safer" appears to be quite different than mine.

Five hundred years ago, a thousand acts of violence might've maimed or killed 1000 people.

Today, it would only take a half-dozen acts of violence (ie buttons pushed) to potentially obliterate 8,000,000,000 people.

Willie, you're not going to be able to convince me of anything, because we're obviously talking about two different things.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 03-22-2022).]

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Report this Post03-22-2022 01:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Patrick

37705 posts
Member since Apr 99
 
quote
Originally posted by williegoat:

Everyone remembers Barry McGuire, but no one remembers The Spokesmen. Why do you think that is?


Because they sucked?

Interesting. I don't think I've ever heard, or heard of, that song before. Was it supposed to be a parody of Eve of Destruction?

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Report this Post03-22-2022 07:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:
A nifty little dial or dial-like control mechanism allows a B61-12 nuclear bomb to be yield-adjusted, to explode with the equivalent of just 300 tons of conventional explosive, or it can be dialed up all the way to 340 kilotons. Just a 1/50 fraction of the Little Boy atomic bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima, on the low end, to over 22 times as much yield as the Hiroshima bomb on the high end.

I would like to take the opportunity to correct this statement. I've been checking online and it is now clear to me that I erred in my description of the variable yield or "dial-a-yield" aspect of the B61-12 nuclear bomb. "Let me be clear..."

Every B61-12 nuclear bomb can be set, programmed or "dialed" to explode from what amounts to a drop down menu of four different yield options. The options are 0.3 kilotons, 1.5 kilotons, 10 kilotons or 50 kilotons. In comparison to the Little Boy atomic bomb that destroyed Hiroshima, this is like a fractional 1/50 Little Boy, a fractional 1/10 Little Boy, a fractional 0.67 Little Boy, or a multiple 3.33 Little Boys.


Phil Hoover, an engineer at Sandia National Laboratories, shows off a flight test body for a B61-12 nuclear weapon. Photo Credit: Jerry Redfern for Reveal.

The B61-12 nuclear bomb has significant earth penetrating capabilities, so it can be exploited to take advantage of "ground coupling" to enhance its destructive effect upon underground targets, as is typically the case for military command and control centers and certain other military or weapons-related installations. This, in combination with its accuracy when dropped or launched from any of the U.S. aircraft that are capable of carrying it, makes it a formidable weapon, even considering the relatively small maximum yield of 50 kilotons.

If one were to spec the B61-12's variable yield functionality as if it were part of a home entertainment system—like an amp or a speaker—one could say that it boasts a dynamic range of just over 22 dB—impressive in terms of its versatility as a nuclear weapon. A veritable "Swiss Army Knife" of a nuclear bomb.


Krell K-300i Integrated Stereo Amplifier

It was the 44th President of the United States, Barack Obama, that signed the appropriations bill that green-lighted the production and deployment of the B61-12 nuclear bomb. When the deployment is complete—it's not fully tested yet—the U.S. will have about 400 B61-12 nuclear bombs in arsenal. It will be 2023 before the first of these weapons are actually deployed.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 03-22-2022).]

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Hudini
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Report this Post03-22-2022 05:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It is actually 2 dials, not drop down menus. And I have set those dials personally.
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Report this Post03-22-2022 07:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The B61-12 is simply a LEP (Life Extension Program) of the B61 weapon series.


In 1979 when Obama was a teenager smoking weed with his "Choom Gang" the B61-4 with 4
selectable yield levels, (0.3, 1.5, 10, or 45 kt.), was put into service.


The B61-4 BA (Bomb Assembly), is being used for the B61-12 LEP so it is NOT NEW .


The B61-12 LEP will utilize a TKA (Tail Kit Assembly) that is basically the same one that Boeing builds for the JDAM but with only inertial guidance, (no GPS).

The JDAM, (Joint Direct Attack Munition), was made operational in 1998.


In 1998 Obama was in the Illinois state Senate.


The B61-12 LEP weapon WILL NOT have ground penetration capability which is why the B61-11, which is actually a B61-7 with a reinforced structure specially designed for ground penetration, is being retained in the inventory.

....


LEFTISTS
and their media know NOTHING about the military, military weapons, or history.....and as shown in this thread they keep demonstrating their ignorance.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 03-23-2022).]

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Report this Post03-22-2022 08:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Still my favorite part is the mahogany nose cone. Unless I am on the wrong end of it.
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Report this Post03-22-2022 08:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by randye:

The B61-12 is simply a LEP (Life Extension Program) of the B62 weapon series.

In 1979 when Obama was a teenager smoking weed with his "Choom Gang" the B61-4 with 4
selectable yield levels was put into service.

The B61-4 BA (Bomb Assembly), is used for the B61-12 LEP so it is NOT new.

The TKA (Tail Kit Assembly) is basically the same as what Boeing builds for the JDAM bombs but with only inertial guidance, (no GPS).

LEFTISTS and their media know NOTHING about the military, military weapons or history.

Yeah, yeah... "LEFTISTS."

I didn't say that Obama was a nuclear weapons "mover and shaker" that should be remembered by history for Tail Kits or Inertial Guidance or Variable Yield (etc.) I didn't say anything that contradicts any of this "panties in a wad about Obama" hair splitting about the B61-12 that isn't even actually splitting any hairs. When I offered that excerpt from the New York Times article, it "name-checked" Obama, but that wasn't anything more than a passing reference to recount the year when the first major funding for the B61-12 Life Extension Program was voted up by Congress as an appropriations bill and signed into law by POTUS—who at that time was Barack Obama.

I didn't even read all the way through your brief but ridiculous message where you first carped about that reference to Obama, but that's why I decided to plus up here with additional and gratuitous "Obama" references. (That's for anyone else who might be following along. It's all lost on you.)

I've got my fingers crossed that Cliff Pennock, who came through with the "Black List" feature not that long ago, will someday come through with another idea that's long been talked about. The feature that would enable me to scroll through the forum as I wish and never catch even a glimpse in passing of anything that you have to say, unless I decided that I wanted to. The Hide or Block "randye" (or whoever) option.

It would be so good not to see you.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 03-22-2022).]

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Report this Post03-22-2022 08:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:


I didn't say that Obama was a nuclear weapons "mover and shaker" that should be remembered by history for...


...but that's why I decided to plus up here with additional and gratuitous "Obama" references.





Because, Obama... sure.

You did it because you can't stand having to constantly be told that you're:



FOUR yammering, blathering, cut & paste, posts in this thread from you, filled with horse crap and wild misinformation on a subject that you know NOTHING about.


LEFTISTS
and their media know NOTHING about the military, military weapons, or history.....and as shown in this thread they keep demonstrating their ignorance.

but....

Leftists gotta Leftist

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 03-22-2022).]

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Report this Post03-23-2022 01:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


Geez, I almost miss sourmash.
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Report this Post03-23-2022 06:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WonderBoySend a Private Message to WonderBoyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

It was the 44th President of the United States, Barack Obama, that signed the appropriations bill that green-lighted the production and deployment of the B61-12 nuclear bomb. When the deployment is complete—it's not fully tested yet—the U.S. will have about 400 B61-12 nuclear bombs in arsenal. It will be 2023 before the first of these weapons are actually deployed.


Warmonger BHO. War domestically and foreign. More nuclear weapons (that deter/kill), but less nuclear power/energy (that brings financial/electrical joy to the masses)... at least we have our priorities straight.

Meanwhile BObama, HClinton and JPsaki test positive for covid.
The representative of the third term of BHO, Resident of The United States Brandon presents the New World Order.
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Report this Post03-23-2022 06:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WonderBoySend a Private Message to WonderBoyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

WonderBoy

504 posts
Member since Oct 2011
 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

I've got my fingers crossed that Cliff Pennock, who came through with the "Black List" feature not that long ago, will someday come through with another idea that's long been talked about. The feature that would enable me to scroll through the forum as I wish and never catch even a glimpse in passing of anything that you have to say, unless I decided that I wanted to. The Hide or Block "randye" (or whoever) option.

It would be so good not to see you.


Shutdown, ban, cancel, all who don't agree or tow the narrative. "To the Gulag with you. Bring shovel and warm cloths."
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Report this Post03-23-2022 07:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
rinse, it seems that you would prefer to have the 'government' (Forum moderator) provide you the 'means' (welfare) to make it easier for you to ignore (censor) posts on this Forum, rather than you exercise the self control needed to do it yourself.

Don't you have any big boy panties in your underwear drawer?

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Report this Post03-23-2022 08:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FatsSend a Private Message to FatsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Doesn't matter how you die, your dead. It's a pretty simple concept I think.
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82-T/A [At Work]
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Report this Post03-23-2022 08:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MidEngineManiac:

Personally, I think Putin is playing some kind of strategy-game.

For some reason (damned if I can figure it out) he seems to be throwing mostly his "junk" into Ukraine and keeping the good stuff in reserve.

Almost like he was waiting to spring a trap.



I don't know anymore. If what I'm reading from some of the analysts is correct, this is probably the most incompetent military incursion we'll see in our lifetimes. Our extreme failure in Afghanistan is one thing, but Russia's failure here is epic.

I saw this from Betrayus:

"Retired General David Petraeus, who was briefly our CIA director, noted how Russia’s secure communications network failed at the outset of the invasion. They had to switch to single-channel communications which can be jammed. It is being jammed. Russians are now taking cell phones from Ukrainians to speak with one another. This is also partially why Russian generals are being picked off left and right. The Russian command structure has collapsed in Ukraine."

If he's right... in that the Russians aren't using encrypted comms, but instead are basically using CB radios and stolen cell phones... then OH MY GOD... haha...

This is a new level of incompetence. Even the Iraqi Army had some level of encryption when we were going in there as Baghdad Bob was doing his thing...
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Report this Post03-23-2022 09:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What I find interesting is the extremely limited use of Russia's air assets. ADA be damned, boots on the ground need air support and eyes in the sky in order to move, shoot and communicate effectively. Some CAS for those ground troops would make one hell of a difference. Drones? One would think Russia would have and use drones effectively but, it doesn't appear so. Let us also not forget the naval forces that have seen very limited use compared to what they could have done. It's like this war is being conducted on a Walmart budget.......... Other measures that could have made a difference in how this "Special Operation" could have succeeded have either been omitted or missed. Why?

Yeah, I know ADA is being supplied by several nations but, in the beginning, an overwhelming air campaign would have made a huge difference, establishing that air superiority would have made this a three day effort by the Russians. Long Range bombers don't even have to leave Russia to deliver their missiles. I fully expected a lightening strike offense, makes me wonder several things about what Putin is actually trying to do.

It's also obvious that this war has been planned for a while, long enough for the Russians to have gathered huge amounts of actual factual intelligence on where they needed to hit first and hardest to gain overwhelming force. It does appear the Russians have overestimated their own capability and under estimated the Ukrainians.

Most folks recognize how our politicians and the restrictions put on our own military have been the reason we had less than desired results from our military efforts and the reason many unnecessary deaths occurred on our side. It's obvious Putin wants access to the Black Sea and those ports. I honestly doubt he'll give them back ever. He still needs those pipe lines that cross Ukraine to move his oil and gas products so, those won't be attacked. Pretty sure he also wants to preserve the Ag production of Ukraine. All of this could have been accomplished had he used his air assets and provided the needed logistical support necessary to support such a war. This also leaves out the massive numbers of conscripts and lack of "Professional Career" experienced enlisted from the ranks of those apparently vacationing in Ukraine. It does appear the Russians expected Ukraine to be as quick and easy as Crimea. Hasn't worked out that way. They sure as hell don't want to take on NATO in a conventional conflict if this is the best they've got.

Rams

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 03-23-2022).]

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Report this Post03-23-2022 07:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by blackrams:

What I find interesting is the extremely limited use of Russia's air assets. ADA be damned, boots on the ground need air support and eyes in the sky in order to move, shoot and communicate effectively. Some CAS for those ground troops would make one hell of a difference. Drones? One would think Russia would have and use drones effectively but, it doesn't appear so.




Ron, This goes straight back to that C3 problem that the Russian military has that I keep mentioning.

In order to have effective combined arms operations, (air and ground forces), it is imperative to have excellent C3 capabilities.

The Russian VKS cannot operate over the battle space if they are as exposed to their own ADA as they are Ukrainian.

IFF transponders are all well and good IF your friendlies can use it.

Directing CAS Ops, as you know, requires very precise and coordinated C3 but the Russian ground forces have extremely limited comms with their VKS (air forces).

Add to the problem that the VKS has extremely limited and not very advanced modern, (Laser, FLIR, etc.) targeting capabilities as compared to the West and that renders the effectiveness of air to ground munitions on well dispersed targets and CAS ops at the FEBA a big problem for them.

One of the "up sides" to this, moderately defended, Russian invasion of Ukraine is that we are learning a LOT about the serious deficiencies of the Russian military and gaining a "KAZ / URAL truckload" of valuable technical intel.

For example, Ukrainian forces just recently captured this Russian batallion TOC intact. It's a treasure trove of "secure" comms equipment, and undestroyed cypher data. What is amazing, (to me), is how the Russians set up all this into a converted BTR-80 APC which is very cramped inside which says that the command cadre at their battalion level appears to be amazingly small and that Ukrainian forces have been able to get deep enough behind the Russians fast enough to be able to capture a TOC intact.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 03-25-2022).]

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Report this Post03-23-2022 08:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by randye:


Ron, This goes straight back to that C3 problem that the Russian military has that I keep mentioning.

In order to have effective combined arms operations, (air and ground forces), it is imperative to have excellent C3 capabilities.

The Russian VKS cannot operate over the battle space if they are as exposed to their own ADA as they are Ukrainian.

IFF transponders are all well and good IF your friendlies can use it.

Directing CAS Ops, as you know, requires very precise and coordinated C3 and the Russian ground forces have extremely limited comms with their VKS (air forces).

Add to the problem that the VKS has extremely limited and not very advanced modern, (FLIR, etc.) targeting capabilities as compared to the West and that renders the effectiveness of A/G munitions on well dispersed targets a big problem for them.

One of the "up sides" to this well defended Russian invasion of Ukraine is that we are learning a LOT about the serious deficiencies of the Russian military and gaining a "KAZ / URAL truckload" of valuable technical intel.

For example, Ukrainian forces just recently captured this Russian batallion TOC intact. It's a treasure trove of "secure" comms equipment, and undestroyed cypher data. What is amazing, (to me), is how the Russians set up all this into a converted BTR-80 APC which is very cramped inside which says that the command cadre at their battalion level appears to be amazingly small and that Ukrainian forces have been able to get deep enough behind the Russians fast enough to be able to capture a TOC intact.



I agree with what you've stated. Reference that battalion TOC, I'm amazed they left that intact (had that been one of ours, it would have had an explosive set and denotated prior to being abandoned, similar to what we do to downed aircraft left in the bad guys AO, or an airstrike would have been called in on it) and I'm betting that there will be a special effort to get that across the Polish border as soon as possible.

Edited: The thought crossed my mind that that TOC might be worth trading a MIG or two, that is, if I was Ukrainian.

Rams

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 03-23-2022).]

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Report this Post03-23-2022 09:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by blackrams:


I'm betting that there will be a special effort to get that across the Polish border as soon as possible.

Edited: The thought crossed my mind that that TOC might be worth trading a MIG or two, that is, if I was Ukrainian.

Rams



From what I'm learning, there is a amazing flow of newer, captured, Russian equipment coming across the Polish and Romanian borders, at least whatever isn't being put back into use by Ukrainian forces.

I was on active duty and remember how excited we all were back when Soviet Lt. Viktor Belenko "purloined" his Mig-25 and flew off to Japan and how we subsequently learned what a huge hunk of outdated crap that aircraft actually was, (vacuum-tube electronics and massive use of nickel-steel alloy in the airframe and a combat radius of only 186 miles!), after we had all been regaled with propaganda about how "advanced" it was.

My expectations (some which are already being realized) are that much of the "new" Russian equipment will prove to be just as miserable.

By the way, it looks like we already got our hands on an abandoned, unfired, 9K720 "Iskander-M" (SS-26) "hypersonic" missile a couple of days ago.
It's still configured for transport, (never placed on the TEL) and looks like they just dumped it off a truck and ran away.



Why is this a good thing?

Because we just recently learned that the SS-26 has onboard ECM capability and carries a number of deployable decoys and now we get a chance to thoroughly examine all of it in detail.

Here is one of the fired decoys:



This war is turning out to be "the intelligence gift that keeps on giving".

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 03-25-2022).]

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Report this Post03-24-2022 05:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by randye:

This war is turning out to be "the intelligence gift that keeps on giving".



Of this, I have no doubts.

Rams

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Report this Post03-24-2022 06:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I almost feel bad for them, so much failure at so many levels... can you imagine? Putin wants Russia to be taken seriously as a force to be reckoned with... and this is how they operate militarily!
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Report this Post03-24-2022 09:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

I almost feel bad for them, so much failure at so many levels... can you imagine? Putin wants Russia to be taken seriously as a force to be reckoned with... and this is how they operate militarily!



It started out bad for them and things have gotten exponentially worse for them every day since they stepped over the Russo-Ukraine border in force.

Here is another example of how bad Russian equipment and tactical planning has been.

Back in 2018 and 2019 the Trump administration sent the first 2 shipments of Javelin ATGMs to Ukraine.
The Ukrainians immediately put a few of them to use against Russian armor being used by separatists in far eastern Ukraine in that ongoing fight.

I was very anxious to see how effective the weapons would be in actual combat but not a lot of reliable info was forthcoming at the time.

Once the Russian and Belorussian armored forces invaded we started seeing photos of these weird looking "cages" welded on top of their T-72s and T-80 tanks.





I am an amateur military historian and have been since my own military days, so I was instantly reminded of the "bedsprings" / "screen door" add-on devices that the Red Army used on their tanks in WW2 when entering Berlin to help protect against German Panzerfaust anti-tank rockets.....IT DIDN'T WORK, but the Red Army had overwhelmed the Nazis by that time so it mattered very little tactically.


If you know how the FGM-148 "Javelin" ATGM works, you know that it "pops up" in flight just before it passes over it's target and then fires downward onto the thinnest, and most vulnerable, armor on a tank, (the top of the turret and engine deck), so we instantly recognized that the Russians had actually resorted to a THREE QUARTERS OF A CENTURY OLD and FAILED concept to protect their MBTs against the "Javelin". They had learned very basically how it works but they have no other countermeasures against it.

The other notable feature of the "Javelin" ATGM is that it carries TWO explosive charges.
One to defeat countermeasures like ERA, (Explosive Reactive Armor...those weird "boxes" you see all over the outside of Russian tanks), and a SECOND shaped charge that fires a millisecond later that blows through the tank's homogenous armor.

The British made NLAW ATGM works in a similar manner to our "Javelin" and the Ukrainians have been making very good use of both of them in addition to other man portable antitank weapons.

Since the Russian and Belorussian forces have engaged the Ukrainians we have witnessed the miserable failure of the Russian ad hoc "countermeasure".

It seems they are very slow learners
and our ATGMs are blowing right through their useless, and mostly decorative, rooftop "cages"





The Ukrainians are putting on a "real-time seminar" on the overwhelming effectiveness of western weapons against Russian equipment.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 03-25-2022).]

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Report this Post03-25-2022 07:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by randye:


It started out bad for them and things have gotten exponentially worse for them every day since they stepped over the Russo-Ukraine border in force.

The Ukrainians are putting on a "real-time seminar" on the overwhelming effectiveness of western weapons against Russian equipment.




Hahah! I knew about the cages and that it was meant to "try" to protect the tanks, but I had no idea that this was a previously failed plan from almost 100 years ago. Hahah, that's hilarious. I wonder who's idea it was in the Russian military to start welding those cages on there?!!!
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Report this Post03-25-2022 02:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
"Meet the nuke the U.S. keeps in Europe, waiting to not be used"

 
quote
It’s estimated there are 100 of these B61 nuclear bombs there, designed to unify NATO and deter Russia
Dan Zak for the Washington Post; March 25, 2022.
https://www.washingtonpost....r-weapon-b61-russia/

"Meet the nuke, meet the nuke, step right up and greet the nuke..." Dan Zak has a way with words. Here's how he opens:
 
quote
Near steep vineyards of Riesling grapes, in an underground vault at an air force base in western Germany, sits an American nuclear bomb. More than one of them, actually. Each bomb is about the length of two refrigerators laid down end to end and as heavy as the average adult male musk ox. The bombs are slender and pointy and a little more than a foot wide. Experts estimate that there are about 100 such bombs stored among five NATO countries, ready to be loaded on jets and dropped by the United States and its allies—old-school style, parachute and all—toward an enemy target. One version of this bomb can carry the explosive equivalent of 11 Hiroshimas.

Riesling grapes... how could you not want to keep reading?

The article, which is "longish", although not a "marathon", includes this:
 
quote
“At a time when discussions of lethal autonomous weapons, drone swarms and the weaponization of outer space make modern warfare seem like a sci-fi thriller, nuclear weapons can seem as retro as a Sony Walkman or landline telephone,” Jessica Cox, NATO’s director of nuclear policy, wrote in 2020. “And yet, nuclear-armed nations such as Russia and China are once again investing heavily to create more sophisticated and diverse nuclear arsenals, North Korea is continuing its nuclear expansion apace, and Iran is once again making headlines for its nuclear developments.”

And so the B61 persists, albeit at a fraction of the size of Russia’s larger tactical nuclear force, which is undergoing updates and “possesses significant advantages” over the arsenals of the United States and its allies, according to the Trump administration’s Nuclear Posture Review in 2018. The estimated 100 U.S. bombs beneath European landscapes are waiting not for detonation so much as refurbishment. (If bombs stick around, bombs get old.)

In May [of 2022,] the U.S. is scheduled to begin full-scale production of a modernized version of the B61 [B61-12] that will have an adjustable yield—meaning that the military can dial up or down the force with which each bomb explodes—and a guided tail kit to improve accuracy (no parachute necessary).

This modernization, which started more than a decade ago, is predicted to cost between $9.1 billion and $10.1 billion — making it probably the most expensive nuclear-bomb program in U.S. history . . .

My takeaway is that the B61 "trademark", from its very inception, has been a hallmark of quality that nuclear bomb customers have always been ready to trust. So much so, that when President Barack "No one's more Irish" Obama was presented with an appropriations bill that green-lighted the B61-12 modernization of the B61 stockpile, signing it was a "no brainer" for him. Who wouldn't have signed their assent to this plan?

This suitable for decorating the coffee table of an article includes two thoughtfully composed photographs of the long established B61 family of "top shelf" nuclear weapons.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 03-25-2022).]

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