I'm fine with fossil fuels, especially if domestically produced. Domestic jobs. Domestic wealth. National security. No funding to other countries. More CO². It's a good thing, no matter what brainwashing you have bought into. No fossil fuels wasted in international transport. Reduced risk of huge maritime spills. More fuel efficient transportation technologies - ICE/electric hybrids, hydrogen. Reduced damage to the environment from building full electric battery technology. No money to China for their electric technology. Money freed up in USA for improving our grid. No waste disposal issues from turbine blades and batteries. That's a partial list.
But more importantly, keeping the beauty of the countryside pristine and unspoiled by solar panels and wind turbine monstrosities.
Natural gas fired and nuclear electrical generation makes a lot more sense.
The green energy movement isn't about saving the planet, it's about wealth redistribution and control of the masses.
[This message has been edited by olejoedad (edited 02-26-2024).]
Do people come from far and near just to see the monotony of these cornfields? Or seemingly endless, straight rows of lettuce or artichokes on flat land? Or flat acreages of wheat, as far as the eye can see? I think not. And I think there is a lot of agricultural land of this kind, all around the country, where solar installations or modern wind turbines would not be unwelcome intrusions, in terms of the visual aesthetics.
Of course, there are farms, orchards, ranches and the like, all around the country, that people do enjoy for the aesthetics of the scenery and the classic or vintage farm buildings and barns and other installations. Rolling hills. Rough hewn timber fences or old fashioned windmills. It's understandable that people would not want to see solar panel installations or modern wind turbines encroaching on these areas.
Remember that converting just 1% of U.S. farmland with agrivoltaic installations for dual use farming and solar energy is a figure to hang your hat on:
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While agrivoltaics research is still in relatively early stages, harmonizing agricultural and solar energy interests has the potential to greatly benefit both industries. According to a 2021 University of Oregon study, converting just 1% of U.S. farmland to agrivoltaic systems would allow solar developers to reach upcoming renewable energy targets. For farmers, agrivoltaics create the rare opportunity to make agricultural land dual-use, allowing farmers to diversify income streams while continuing crop production. As interest continues to grow, developers should expect new and varied opportunities to implement agrivoltaics in future projects.
"Common Ground: Agrivoltaics Provide Mutual Benefits to Developers and Farmers" Jordan Farrell and Bo Mahr for Husch Blackwell "Climate Solutions"; December 20, 2023. https://www.climatesolution...cultural-production/
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Originally posted by olejoedad: ... keeping the beauty of the countryside pristine and unspoiled by solar panels and wind turbine monstrosities.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 02-26-2024).]
Do people come from far and near just to see the monotony of these cornfields? Or seemingly endless, straight rows of lettuce or artichokes on flat land? Or flat acreages of wheat, as far as the eye can see? I think not. And I think there is a lot of agricultural land of this kind, all around the country, where solar installations or modern wind turbines would not be unwelcome intrusions, in terms of the visual aesthetics.
I have always wanted to run through a corn field, like in the movies... but I honestly don't have a problem with dual-use of the land as this proposes. I actually think it would be a good use of the land and could be beneficial to certain plants, so long as it doesn't increase the cost of farming. It could, actually... allow a greater use of existing farm land so as to protect natural currently undisturbed natural habitat. Most solar power fields are built on Federal or state-owned land... which is usually undeveloped land... thus resulting in pristine lands getting ruined.
So I think it could be a huge benefit, so long as the three things I mentioned in my first response to you, are mitigated (or considered).
But as I am not the ruler of the world (yet), all I can do is give you my opinion!
EDIT, instead of farm subsidies... the state and local governments could subsidize farmers in their state through the integration of solar panels.
[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 02-26-2024).]
Do people come from far and near just to see the monotony of these cornfields? Or seemingly endless, straight rows of lettuce or artichokes on flat land? Or flat acreages of wheat, as far as the eye can see? I think not. And I think there is a lot of agricultural land of this kind, all around the country, where solar installations or modern wind turbines would not be unwelcome intrusions, in terms of the visual aesthetics.
Of course, there are farms, orchards, ranches and the like, all around the country, that people do enjoy for the aesthetics of the scenery and the classic or vintage farm buildings and barns and other installations. Rolling hills. Rough hewn timber fences or old fashioned windmills. It's understandable that people would not want to see solar panel installations or modern wind turbines encroaching on these areas.
Remember that converting just 1% of U.S. farmland with agrivoltaic installations for dual use farming and solar energy is a figure to hang your hat on:
The farmers in my area would not agree with your opinion. They are fed up with state government pushing solar and wind onto agricultural ground.
Your opinion doesn't mean squat to them, or really to anyone besides you.
Originally posted by olejoedad: The farmers in my area would not agree with your opinion. They are fed up with state government pushing solar and wind onto agricultural ground.
Your opinion doesn't mean squat to them, or really to anyone besides you.
That's all well and good, but what are going to say to Detroit-based DTE Energy?
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DTE Energy is seeking proposals for renewable energy projects in the state of Michigan to add 1GW of capacity.
The projects will be part of the company’s CleanVision IRP and will support the state’s aim of 60% of energy from renewable resources by 2030.
The initiative is a critical step towards DTE’s broader carbon reduction goals.
The projects are expected to be operational by March 2027 and must be located within Michigan, with connections to the Midcontinent Independent System Operator or distribution-level transmission.
The deadline for bid submissions is 14 May 2024, with plans to finalise contracts by the autumn.
DTE Energy renewable sales and project development vice-president Joseph Musallam stated: “DTE is committed to transforming the way we generate energy while maintaining reliability and affordability for our customers. As a result, we continue to be the state’s leading producer of and investor in utility-scale renewable energy projects.
“Our existing wind and solar parks are reducing Michigan’s carbon footprint while providing jobs, tax revenue and additional benefits to local communities across the state, and future developments will continue to grow our clean energy economy.”
Announced in 2022, the CleanVision IRP is a 20-year strategy to transition to more sustainable energy sources. This includes expediting solar and wind investments and facilitating the retirement of coal plants.
In July 2023, DTE Energy entered agreements with Michigan stakeholders including Attorney General Dana Nessel, the Michigan Public Service Commission and local labour organisations to collaborate on the future resource plan.
The company’s renewable energy portfolio comprises 20 wind and 33 solar parks, generating sufficient clean energy for 750,000 homes.
DTE Energy has set a goal of 1GW of additional new wind and solar capacity annually from 2026.
It also plans to shut down its coal plants and invest $11 [billion] in renewables in the decade to 2033.
By 2042, it aims to have a renewable energy generation capacity exceeding 15GW, enough to supply power to four million homes.
Originally posted by rinselberg: I can't remember how many stories I've heard about people with agricultural land expressing strong negative reactions—like olejoedad—to agrivoltaics.
Tell us about one that YOU heard. Or, do you hear about from an anonymous source, or hear say ?
Originally posted by rinselberg: Suddenly, the same land owners became agrivoltaics evangelists, encouraging their neighbors to consider it for themselves!
Can you walk and chew bubble gum at the same time ? I encourage you to try. If you get good at it, learn to blow bubbles at the same time.
Why are solar farms not growing crops already ? Those windmills. Tell me about them. Did they buy all the land their farms are on ?
As of March 2023, the National Renewable Energy Laboratory had identified 314 agrivoltaic projects in the United States representing over 2.8GW of solar capacity. Most were focused on grazing and pollinator habitat, with relatively [few] integrating crop production.
Originally posted by rinselberg: Can you think of any drawbacks to using fossil fuels for energy?
No. Tell us of just one.
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Originally posted by rinselberg: Even if you believe that more carbon dioxide is a good thing, there are other environmental impacts from the oil and gas industry and the coal industry, and they mostly come as environmental damage and not benefits for the environment. Or would you even argue with that?
I would be glad to discuss that.
Even if you believe that the farcical green energy is a good thing, there are many environmental impacts from the stupidity.
You do realize that the Dept of Energy is run by a complete partisan idiot? We had eight long years of her as governor. She is a moron, and driving a political, not scientific, agenda
Originally posted by olejoedad: You do realize that the Dept of Energy is run by a complete partisan idiot? We had eight long years of her as governor. She is a moron, and driving a political, not scientific, agenda.
"Moron" is the first word that comes to my mind when I think of how to describe Donald Trump, but that doesn't stop me from seeing positive in some of the things that happened during Trump's presidency. Here's an example from the U.S. Department of the Interior:
"Moron" is the first word that comes to my mind when I think of how to describe Donald Trump, but that doesn't stop me from seeing positive in some of the things that happened during Trump's presidency. Here's an example from the U.S. Department of the Interior:
Has curiosity ever led you to consider looking at a climate blog, just to see what's been blogged that might catch your eye?
I found two blog entries at PR Newswire that are like Michelin restaurant guides, except it's not about restaurants—it's about climate blogs. Blogs about blogs..!
The farmers in my area would not agree with your opinion. They are fed up with state government pushing solar and wind onto agricultural ground..
Why are they upset?
Government can't force them to do any of those things with their own land, and they have no right to complain about what other people chose to do with their own property. Windfarms and solar panels don't produce any pollution that would interfere with their neighbors rights. They are not like hog farms or commercial factories.
Government can't force them to do any of those things with their own land, and they have no right to complain about what other people chose to do with their own property.
Uh huh...tell me about this magical land.
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Windfarms and solar panels don't produce any pollution that would interfere with their neighbors rights. They are not like hog farms or commercial factories.
Of course you are a middle-of-the-road capitalist, we believe you. No, really, we believe you.
What could I tell you about your state? They don't force farmers to convert to green energy and farmers should not care what other people do with their property?
So can you answer my question about why they are upset. Seems like they are squealing about politics instead of the actual FREEDOM they have to do whatever they want with their own property.
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Originally posted by williegoat: Of course you are a middle-of-the-road capitalist, we believe you. No, really, we believe you.
You should not just blindly believe what I tell you. Go do the research for yourself. Then you will see that what I am saying is true.
Originally posted by olejoedad: The farmers in my area would not agree with your opinion: They are fed up with state government pushing solar and wind onto agricultural ground....
But not this farmer. Reading between the lines, it seems like he's receptive to the idea of having wind or solar installed on some of his land, and resents the idea that certain people are putting obstacles in his way:
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“I can’t do on my property what I’d like to do, and I’m trying to save my family farm,” said Kevin Health of Milan Township. He accused “big money and outside forces” of stoking opposition to renewable energy in his community.
Effort underway to repeal the new Michigan law that allows the state to override local resistance to wind and solar Kelly House for Bridge Michigan; January 19, 2024. https://www.bridgemi.com/mi...le-energy-siting-law
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 03-02-2024).]
Originally posted by rinselberg: Has curiosity ever led you to consider looking at a climate blog, just to see what's been blogged that might catch your eye?
Has curiosity ever led you to consider looking at climate blogs which do not agree with your fantasies ?
Originally posted by rinselberg: Effort underway to repeal the new Michigan law that allows the state to override local resistance to wind and solar Kelly House for Bridge Michigan; January 19, 2024. https://www.bridgemi.com/mi...le-energy-siting-law
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Link posted by rinselberg: Why it matters
As the threat of climate change prompts a society-wide push to ditch fossil fuels, Michigan government and utilities have committed to decarbonizing the state’s energy grid by midcentury.
How can you be so dishonest ?
Since the beginning of Earth, climate change happened.
Prompts a society-wide push to ditch fossil fuels ?
quote “I can’t do on my property what I’d like to do, and I’m trying to save my family farm,” said Kevin Health of Milan Township. He accused “big money and outside forces” of stoking opposition to renewable energy in his community.
Typical of the right. The strongly support your right to be free to agree 100% with them. That is what "freedom" means to them.
The support denying people the right to do what they want with their own property.
Since the beginning of Earth, climate change happened.
Prompts a society-wide push to ditch fossil fuels ?
You don't get it.
Everyone agrees that climate change has happened in the past. But pretty much everyone agrees that human activity that has caused a massive increase in CO2 in the atmosphere is making things much worse.
It is possible for BOTH of those things to be true. Climate change has happened in the past but human activity is making it worse.
