I have posted two videos below and although they are well worth watching in their entirety, I want you to watch a specific, roughly 30 second clip from each.
The subject matter is music, but the focus is culture.
In the first video with Rhiannon Giddens (my favorite living music historian), tabla player Sandeep Das expresses an opinion about cultural identity. The clip is from 4:41 to 5:09.
The second video is about Tuareg Rock, but from 5:03 to 5:36 the narrator makes an observation about the driving force behind rock music.
I have said both of these same things for many years, and more than once here on these pages.
You might find these videos interesting, or you might be bored to distraction, but I would like to hear opinions on the ideas expressed in each of the brief clips.
clip from 4:41-5:09
clip from 5:03-5:36
Also, on a side note: I detest the term "world music". It is a blanket term, a wet blanket that is too small. It will leave you cold. Honestly, I think it is condescending and patronizing. It says, "Look at the silly peasants, aren't they cute?"
------------------ "Ain't no rest for the whiskers."
I detest the term "world music". It is a blanket term, a wet blanket that is too small. It will leave you cold. Honestly, I think it is condescending and patronizing.
I feel the same way about the term "leftist", which is thrown around this forum (by a few members) with reckless abandon. Anyone who isn't alt-right is immediately categorized as a leftist. I don't understand the mentality of people who are so narrow-minded.
Originally posted by Patrick: Anyone who isn't alt-right is immediately categorized as a leftist. I don't understand the mentality of people who are so narrow-minded.
"Leftist" has no meaning whatsoever, the way it's being used on this forum. One member in particular has gone completely bonkers with it. He insinuated that the forewoman of that special grand jury who went on TV a few months ago and gave a kind of "wacky" interview was a leftist. She said during the interview that she didn't care about politics. I think she said that she wasn't in the habit of voting. So that's a "leftist"..? Really? (That's the investigation that's being led by Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis.)
I have a memory for these forum posts. But they're not easy to go back and find again. I don't think the forum Search function even processes this Politics & Religion section.
The insinuation about that grand jury forewoman, just one of a number of examples from the past year or two on this forum. Examples of how "the left" or "leftist" are words that are being used in a mindless way, or a very uninformed way. These words are not being used. They are being misused. And abused. And I'm not amused or enthused, but I have now mused (about it).
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 05-06-2023).]
Left and right are legitimate political descriptors. Alt-right is a term coined by a neo-nazi who wanted to distinguish his beliefs from the right. He wanted an alternative to right winged ideology. The left seized on the term, although they were unable to comprehend that the alt-right were rejecting the right. They were an alternative, just as the left is an alternative to the right. Just as ketchup is an alternative to mustard.
In order to understand, go to the origins.
How about discussing something else for a change? Does cultural diversity make the left uncomfortable? Why must they derail what could be a productive topic?
How about discussing something else for a change? Does cultural diversity make the left uncomfortable? Why must they derail what could be a productive topic?
I tried this once before, but the thread was derailed by another now banned member: Musical balderdash!
There is so much in music beyond just pretty sounds. Music is the story of civilization.
Seems rather odd that a thread purported to be about music has been posted in Politics & Religion.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-06-2023).]
Seems rather odd that a thread purported to be about music has been posted in Politics & Religion.
If you had actually read the thread instead of just trying to pick a fight, you might understand.
quote
Originally posted by williegoat:
I have posted two videos below and although they are well worth watching in their entirety, I want you to watch a specific, roughly 30 second clip from each.
The subject matter is music, but the focus is culture.
In the first video with Rhiannon Giddens (my favorite living music historian), tabla player Sandeep Das expresses an opinion about cultural identity. The clip is from 4:41 to 5:09.
The second video is about Tuareg Rock, but from 5:03 to 5:36 the narrator makes an observation about the driving force behind rock music.
I have said both of these same things for many years, and more than once here on these pages.
You might find these videos interesting, or you might be bored to distraction, but I would like to hear opinions on the ideas expressed in each of the brief clips.
clip from 4:41-5:09
clip from 5:03-5:36
Also, on a side note: I detest the term "world music". It is a blanket term, a wet blanket that is too small. It will leave you cold. Honestly, I think it is condescending and patronizing. It says, "Look at the silly peasants, aren't they cute?"
For any who would like to have an adult discussion, I am trying to bring people together through a greater understanding of culture.
Listen to what Rhiannon Giddens has to say in the last one minute and seven seconds of the last video I posted about the history of the banjo, from 20:20 to the end.
Originally posted by williegoat: Don't allow the narrow minded "progressive" concept of "cultural diversity" to divide us. A close inspection of culture will prove that we all have a lot in common. We all have a lot to share.
I don't see how cultural diversity can legitimately be reduced to a progressive concept.
Cultural diversity is not inherently divisive. It only becomes divisive when people elevate culturally distinctive ideas and values to such an extent that it undermines the foundations of human civilizations and societies that should be universally shared and respected.
There's a sentence that I encountered long ago that has stuck with me. It went like this:
quote
I'm a Palestinian, and a journalist. But I'm not a Palestinian journalist. I'm a journalist... "period".
He was saying that he's a journalist, first and foremost, who happens to be of Palestinian ancestry.
I like that. I think it is important to be that way. It should be the rule, not the exception.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 05-06-2023).]
I don't see how cultural diversity can legitimately be reduced to a progressive concept.
Cultural diversity is not inherently divisive. It only becomes divisive when people elevate culturally distinctive ideas and values to such an extent that it undermines the foundations of human civilizations and societies that should be universally shared and respected.
That is my point.
quote
Originally posted by williegoat: Don't allow the narrow minded "progressive" concept of "cultural diversity" to divide us. A close inspection of culture will prove that we all have a lot in common. We all have a lot to share.
Where I find fault is with the narrow minded concept of "cultural diversity" promoted by Progressive Liberal dogma. I have said that many times over the years.
quote
I'm a Palestinian, and a journalist. But I'm not a Palestinian journalist. I'm a journalist... "period".
This should not be exceptional, it should be common sense. The Progressive Liberal dogma elevates cultural identity to a virtue. That is divisive. In the first video above, Sandeep Das says that he lost his identity in a beautiful way.
The reason I posted the two "Bela Fleck and the Flecktones" videos above is to show how the blending of cultures can be a great thing.
"The whole is greater than the sum of its parts."
Bela Fleck is one of the greatest musical minds in the history of music. He comes from a Bluegrass background. Victor Wooten is one of the best bass players in the world, he comes from a Funk background. Together they created a unique Jazz sound. When you add a Tuvan throat singer, you have created something truly special. That is cultural diversity, not cultural division.
Originally posted by williegoat: Where I find fault is with the narrow minded concept of "cultural diversity" promoted by Progressive Liberal dogma. I have said that many times over the years.
I don't think of that as "Progressive Liberal dogma." I think that cultural diversity run amok comes from a different place. I would call that place the Far Left or Radical Left. I don't think of Pramila Jayapal, who chairs the Progressive Caucus, or Ro Khanna, who represents my district, as Far Left or Racial Left, or as "dogmatic". I think they are more reasonable than that.
I focused on the first two that came to my mind.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 05-06-2023).]
I don't think of that as "Progressive Liberal dogma." I think that cultural diversity run amok comes from a different place. I would call that place the Far Left or Radical Left. I don't think of Pramila Jayapal, who chairs the Progressive Caucus, or Ro Khanna, who represents my district, as Far Left or Racial Left, or as "dogmatic". I think they are more reasonable than that.
Oh no! You said "Left" four times! You are going to hell, or a reeducation camp. One or the other. Or, you just admitted that Left is a legitimate political descriptor.
quote
I focused on the first two that came to my mind.
You focused on the first two what? Ethnic Indians?
One was born in Philly and the other grew up in Southeast Asia. Both are Americans.
I did not follow their elections, so I have no idea if they were chosen for anything other than their political views. Do you?
I can tell you that both Kamila Harris and Karine Jean-Pierre were chosen for characteristics unrelated to their job requirements. Does that make Joe Biden a Radical Leftist?
Oh no! You said "Left" four times! You are going to hell, or a reeducation camp. One or the other. Or, you just admitted that Left is a legitimate political descriptor.
I don't believe anyone here has ever questioned use of the words "left" or "right" in regards to political affiliation.
The term "leftist" is the one thrown around ad nauseam by the brain-dead.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-06-2023).]
I haven't said that "left" or "leftist" in a political context cannot be meaningful terms.
I have said (and continue to say) that certain forum members (one in particular, of late) are explicitly calling out or insinuating "left" and "leftist" without having a sensible thought in their heads when they do it, and they are doing it with the same frequency as a cocaine-addicted rat would bump up against a button that dispenses cocaine-infused food pellets in some kind of laboratory experiment.
I wouldn't agree that either Kamala Harris as VP or Karine Jean-Pierre as White House Press Secretary are examples of diversity solely for the sake of diversity.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 05-06-2023).]
I wouldn't agree that either Kamala Harris as VP or Karine Jean-Pierre as White House Press Secretary are examples of diversity, solely for the sake of diversity.
So, do you believe that each was the best available candidate for her job?
They are reasonably competent, and it was predictable before their first day on the job, based on their experience and their life histories, that they would be reasonably competent.
This "Are they the best?" line of questioning is a mirage.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 05-06-2023).]
So, we will disagree on their level of competence and on the criteria for their selection. I don't think anyone would expect anything different.
I started this thread to cause people to think about cultural identity from a different perspective. I liked what Sandeep Das had to say and I like the way Rhiannon Giddens thinks. I also think that the Amazigh and Tuareg music provide an interesting look into how war, culture, religion and freedom intersect.
I think that some are too focused on culture and race in the political arena. As Americans, we should all have common interests.
I feel the same way about the term "leftist", which is thrown around this forum (by a few members) with reckless abandon. Anyone who isn't alt-right is immediately categorized as a leftist. I don't understand the mentality of people who are so narrow-minded.
Cultural appropriation is a good thing. Culture is to be shared, not jealously guarded. Don’t let it divide us.
This band was formed by a Spanish girl of Romani heritage. She is not insulted by the word “Gypsy”. She embraces it.
The musicians are Serbian, Ukrainian, Italian, Spanish, French and Greek. Here they perform a beautiful rendition of a Macedonian song while in in Germany.
The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
One of my favorite music videos is by a Mexican band playing a Greek folk song. It is stunning.
Oh, and not one of those musicians was chosen because they needed a Ukrainian or a Serbian. Each was chosen because of his skill and expertise. Sandra has several degrees in music and knows what she is doing.
To promote inclusion, I would like to see all bands be required by the government to have at least one of each of the following underrepresented instruments.
Willie Nelson should be required to hire a clarinet player and all hip-hop groups should include a steel guitar.
In addition, all steel guitar players should be ethnic Hawaiians. Cindy Cashdollar, Robert Randolph, you’re outa here. No more passing.
And Brazil...no more Samba. You know better. Shame on you.
I feel the same way about the term "leftist", which is thrown around this forum (by a few members) with reckless abandon. Anyone who isn't alt-right is immediately categorized as a leftist. I don't understand the mentality of people who are so narrow-minded.
Here's the thing... in the 90s, Bill Clinton was considered a leftist.
Bill Clinton supported the following: - Border Walls - Reduced Government Spending - Welfare Reform (and cuts) - Free Market / Capitalism - Tariffs on China
Today, Bill Clinton's ideology and governing style would be considered "fascist" by today's left.
So, what's changed? Today, the above items would generally be considered all views of the right. So I think it's safe to say that the idea of "alt-right" is sorely non-existent or grossly misrepresented. The only thing that's changed here is that the left has gone SOOOOOO far left, that most normal human beings wouldn't view most of what the left does as even remotely sane.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Here's the thing... in the 90s, Bill Clinton was considered a leftist.
Bill Clinton supported the following: - Border Walls - Reduced Government Spending - Welfare Reform (and cuts) - Free Market / Capitalism - Tariffs on China
Today, Bill Clinton's ideology and governing style would be considered "fascist" by today's left.
So, what's changed? Today, the above items would generally be considered all views of the right. So I think it's safe to say that the idea of "alt-right" is sorely non-existent or grossly misrepresented. The only thing that's changed here is that the left has gone SOOOOOO far left, that most normal human beings wouldn't view most of what the left does as even remotely sane.
What else do we call people on the left?
well most of my euro friends think our demo's are mostly CENTER RIGHT by their euro standards only the extreme few are really even a bit leftist by euro measures
and the extreme right of the Gop is a thing to fear with people who are insane in congress like bobbet or marg trailerpark green and totally nut govinators like de satan at war with that mouse that should be a cartoon
and class the rump with putin and other criminals like the nut turk or the P I drug war guy they think and govern in a very autocratic manor
if one gets out of the local BS and out in the wide world one would find the rightwing are a bit too far for most to take popular in russia china and N K but not for most others
you follow the nut turk SELLING BUILD CODE exemptions well the big earth quake did not see the exemptions as valid AND LOTS OF BUILDINGS FELL KILLING LOTS OF PEOPLE direct result of less regulation and good old capitalist greed
just the newest example of FAILURE OF THE NUT-CON DOGMA
Originally posted by ray b: well most of my euro friends think our demo's are mostly CENTER RIGHT by their euro standards only the extreme few are really even a bit leftist by euro measures
Half my family is from Europe, and they would agree with you, but when you ask them anything, they have no clue why they believe what they believe. I'd also suggest that Europe was "built" because of Capitalism, but has become increasingly irrelevant with socialism. But I don't know really what that means, or why I should care. You need only look at the Netherlands to see what a great nation becomes under Socialism. They were once one of the most powerful nations in the world. Single-handedly brought Europe out of the dark ages through trade that they established in Dodrecht (which is now an inland city). They literally created the first corporation, created the corporate share, and created the stock market. The world literally exists today and runs in the manner in which it does, because of the Dutch. But since the 70s, they've increasingly abandoned their entrepreneurial roots for socialism. They owned many of the largest corporations in the world... almost none of which are still Dutch (like Philips, KLM, etc.).
quote
Originally posted by ray b: and the extreme right of the Gop is a thing to fear with people who are insane in congress like bobbet or marg trailerpark green and totally nut govinators like de satan at war with that mouse that should be a cartoon
What do you refer to the extreme right, and what exactly do you mean? Are the GOP planning on killing people?
quote
Originally posted by ray b: and class the rump with putin and other criminals like the nut turk or the P I drug war guy they think and govern in a very autocratic manor
I do not know what you're saying here.
quote
Originally posted by ray b: if one gets out of the local BS and out in the wide world one would find the rightwing are a bit too far for most to take popular in russia china and N K but not for most others
Well... I've been to every continent except the poles. I've been around the world more times than I can count, and have been to hundreds of different countries, both in the service of the government, and on my own dime. I've lived for 3 months or more at a time in places like the Netherlands, Thailand, and Afghanistan. I've been to places where the wealthy have never driven and often don't wipe their own ass, to the absolute insane poverty that you see in places like India and Egypt... where the poor run around naked because they can't even afford clothes, and their homes are made of stacked mud. So, I dunno... but I think I'm pretty aware of what's going on in the world... and realize that the left, more so than any other group I've ever seen in my life... live in an absolute bubble about how the world works... to a literal fault. And that's the problem, they have no concept of how the world works.
Why this desperate need to label everyone? Why the need to put everyone in either one camp or the other?
In my day to day life (outside of this forum), political ideology never enters the conversation. It's so much easier to get along with people when the way they vote doesn't form the basis of a relationship.
Why this desperate need to label everyone? Why the need to put everyone in either one camp or the other?
In my day to day life (outside of this forum), political ideology never enters the conversation. It's so much easier to get along with people when the way they vote doesn't form the basis of a relationship.
I would agree with you... but I do not feel as though it's the people on the right who started this.
By any general consensus... everyone on the left is moral and just, and everyone on the right is pathological and pure evil. This is the narrative that most news sites portray, and likely what most people on the left actually believe.
I was born during a time (like you), where our views really weren't much different... perhaps we just had a slightly different idea of how to get there. But now... the world is totally different... and the left DEMANDS submission. The left has moved so insanely far left, that even what was mainstream left of 20 years ago is considered "radical right" today.
So... I think we need terms, otherwise we'd have to use insane, and normal to describe people.
I propose that from now on, instead of using labels, we just say, "You know...the thing" It would help each of us to be better understood.
Part of the problem is that each time a meaning is changed, each time a word is banned, we all grow farther apart. When we all speak different languages, we can no longer communicate. When we no longer communicate, we no longer trust. At that point, we are only one step away from war.
Let everyone speak. Then, you will know whether he can be trusted.
I would agree with you... but I do not feel as though it's the people on the right who started this.
Of course you don't.
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Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
By any general consensus... everyone on the left is moral and just, and everyone on the right is pathological and pure evil. This is the narrative that most news sites portray, and likely what most people on the left actually believe.
Todd, do you need a hand? That's an awfully wide brush you're swinging.
The problem with the way you wish to categorize everyone, is that anyone a bit "left" of your beliefs, even if just minimally, is lumped in with all the crazies at the far end of the spectrum. Ex-member Uhlanstan had called me, at least once, a "left-wing commie pinko pantywaist boy". I could easily laugh it off, as it was so stupid... but it still bugged me that I was being cubbyholed along with all the left-wing zealots. I don't like zealots of any persuasion. Maybe if you could just admit that there are also right-wing nut cases out there, we might not need to re-hash all this so often.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-08-2023).]
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: By any general consensus... everyone on the left is moral and just, and everyone on the right is pathological and pure evil. This is the narrative that most news sites portray, and likely what most people on the left actually believe.
I am just going to "Jake_Dragon" those remarks.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 05-08-2023).]
Todd, do you need a hand? That's an awfully wide brush you're swinging.
The problem with the way you wish to categorize everyone, is that anyone a bit "left" of your beliefs, even if just minimally, is lumped in with all the crazies at the far end of the spectrum. Ex-member Uhlanstan had called me, at least once, a "left-wing commie pinko pantywaist boy". I could easily laugh it off, as it was so stupid... but it still bugged me that I was being cubbyholed along with all the left-wing zealots. I don't like zealots of any persuasion. Maybe if you could just admit that there are also right-wing nut cases out there, we might not need to re-hash all this so often.
I mean, at least Uhlanstan got your pronouns right! Hahah...
Look, things are crazy right now. I know it's mostly driven by social media... but unfortunately, the crazy-stuff that goes on ends up getting persisted by the politicians (who think they're doing what the people want), which ends up getting adopted by "the people" ... and in some small way, everyone gets a little crazier.
Maybe I'm nuts, but with exception of some things... I wish we'd get back to how we were like ~10 years ago. People really just got **** -faced crazy.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: What do you refer to the extreme right, and what exactly do you mean? Are the GOP planning on killing people?
.
with out reasonable regulation [think EPA] CORPrats kill people with love canals so the rump appointed an anti EPA jerk to not run the agency yes Gop dogma kills people if there is extra profit corners will be cut and Gop & rump will allow it
the turk jerk kills with substandard buildings that fall in earth quakes
the pig in the philippines islands kills citizens with death squads
putin just poisons rivals all are rightwing killers rump wants the same style here
I could easily laugh it off, as it was so stupid... but it still bugged me that I was being cubbyholed along with all the left-wing zealots. I don't like zealots of any persuasion. Maybe if you could just admit that there are also right-wing nut cases out there, we might not need to re-hash all this so often.
