Sadly, these ‘discussions’ are more open conflict than ‘real’ discussions.
True, we’re deeply politically divided; many threads turn hyper toxic; some members will rant more than others, and I can see that a few hotheads will continue to make trouble….
To me, I can see that this section causes great harm PFF member relationships, so I’m gone to the ‘lighter’ side of the forum….Farewell
Originally posted by Vintage-Nut: To me, I can see that this section causes great harm PFF member relationships, so I’m gone to the ‘lighter’ side of the forum….Farewell
Great ! Another "I am leaving" thread. Go play in the shallow section of the pool.
Originally posted by Vintage-Nut: Sadly, these ‘discussions’ are more open conflict than ‘real’ discussions.
True, we’re deeply politically divided; many threads turn hyper toxic; some members will rant more than others, and I can see that a few hotheads will continue to make trouble….
To me, I can see that this section causes great harm PFF member relationships, so I’m gone to the ‘lighter’ side of the forum….Farewell
The idea of having this section is for the more hot-tempered kinds of arguments to play out here, and keep these sharp-tongued verbal altercations from characterizing any of the other sections of the forum. I think it's working. Does anyone see evidence to the contrary?
I don't see any harm to PFF member relationships, because the particular forum members that are consistently hostile in their remarks about other forum members were already like that. It predates the existence of this Politics & Religion section, which is a relatively recent addition to the forum.
I think much of this overriding rudeness and verbal hostility is uncalled for and actually pointless, but... "It is what it is." Only a change to a more "curated" style of discussion forum, with more restrictive rules of discourse and decorum, and enforced by a more intrusive forum moderator, would change that.
That's not something that I am in any position to ask for, and so whether I want that kind of change (or not) is immaterial.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 08-13-2023).]
Any political or religious forum is going to get heated. It is the nature of the beast.
The key is too keep it all here. I made a post in another thread that was intended as a joke, but since it involved Williegoat it was seen as an attack. That was poor judgement on my part. Most would probably have seen it as a joke if it had not involved some one that I parry with often in this forum.
I made a post in another thread that was intended as a joke, but since it involved Williegoat it was seen as an attack. That was poor judgement on my part. Most would probably have seen it as a joke if it had not involved some one that I parry with often in this forum.
There is a world of difference between a "parry" and the ineffectual, wild, flailing that you engage in.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 08-13-2023).]
Originally posted by randye: There is a world of difference between a "parry" and the ineffectual, wild, flailing that you engage in.
Toast seems to think that calling everyone "uneducated", "rubes", "ignorant", "racist", "homophobic" and stupid, constitutes polite or humorous interaction.
He acts exactly like past ex members such as furgal and sourmash.
Originally posted by williegoat: Toast seems to think that calling everyone "uneducated", "rubes", "ignorant", "racist", "homophobic" and stupid, constitutes polite or humorous interaction.
He acts exactly like past ex members such as furgal and sourmash.
Scroll through it until you encounter the first childish and stupidly insulting post that has no purpose whatsoever, except to (attempt to) insult the intelligence of other forum members.
It's not from fredtoast. It's not from Patrick, or from ray b.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 08-13-2023).]
Scroll through it until you encounter the first childish and stupidly insulting post that has no purpose whatsoever, except to (attempt to) insult the intelligence of other forum members.
It's not from fredtoast. It's not from Patrick, or from ray b.
So, what you are saying is that since you don't like what another member posted, toast gets a free pass. That is absurd.
Originally posted by williegoat: So, what you are saying is that since you don't like what another member posted, toast gets a free pass. That is absurd.
No. I think what I said holds up. It's my impression that fredtoast has been responding in kind, and not being the aggressor, in terms of rude language.
I won't say that there have not been exceptions to that pattern, but I think that is more true than false.
I will say that for anyone to undertake a close analysis, with reviews of a significant sample of all that's been posted recently, is no small task.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 08-13-2023).]
Can't express myself = your a Nazi Disagree with me = your racist Stand up for something you believe in = homophobe
Shared my personal example of family losing jobs. Shared my personal belief in our police officers. Shared my personal belief in woman's rights.
It would take more than just the few minutes that I just used to examine all of what Jake_Dragon is saying here. I just focused on the "Nazi."
This looks like it goes back to a recent conversation, where ray b said "Henry Ford was a full-on Nazi." But ray b wasn't calling Jake_Dragon a Nazi. (Unless Jake_Dragon thinks of himself as a reincarnation of Henry Ford.) That was followed by this:
quote
Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: Can you [ray b] expand your vocabulary? this one [Nazi] is getting over used and has no meaning when you post it.
quote
Originally posted by ray b: NO
but I do suspect it does hit too close to your [Jake_Dragon] belief system
btw I said it but did NOT make it up
and support it with many links
can you support your ideas with links to non nut sites ?
I don't think that ray b was out of line, here. He's not calling Jake_Dragon a "Nazi." He's obviously critical (in a negative way) about what he makes of Jake_Dragon's "belief system", but he's not calling Jake_Dragon a "Nazi."
If nothing else, this demonstrates how much effort it would take to examine all of the other "bullet points" in Jake_Dragon's remark.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 08-13-2023).]
Toast seems to think that calling everyone "uneducated", "rubes", "ignorant", "racist", "homophobic" and stupid, constitutes polite or humorous interaction.
He acts exactly like past ex members such as furgal and sourmash.
I predict that he is going last about as long as sourmash did...probably less. Another "flash in the Leftist pan".
That thread shows sourmash, who was from Tennessee, acting exactly like fredtoast.
There is no comparison between sourpuss and fredtoast.
Sourpuss went out of his way to ostracize everybody in the forum... left, right, center... it didn't matter.
Fredtoast challenges the far right to back up their political claims, and he's totally civil about it until he's harassed. And even then, he's rather tame in his rebuttal.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 08-13-2023).]
Originally posted by randye: I predict that he is going last about as long as sourmash did...probably less. Another "flash in the Leftist pan".
can't debate or discuss ideas can you but great at boxing and mislabeling others here in error
other then everything not john birch endorsed is nasty do you ever have thoughts about who is worse ron or the rump which one is more of a total complete darksider or would depress the markets the most
Originally posted by fredtoast: Two such opposèd kings encamp them still, In man as well as herbs—grace and rude will. And where the worser is predominant,
Full soon the canker death eats up that plant.
That's very introspective of you "falso Signor Montecchi"
"Be plain, good son, and homely in thy drift. Riddling confession finds but riddling shrift."
Scroll through it until you encounter the first childish and stupidly insulting post that has no purpose whatsoever, except to (attempt to) insult the intelligence of other forum members.
It's not from fredtoast. It's not from Patrick, or from ray b.
I disagree, I made a fairly substantial post here, and he didn't address it. There were direct statements I made to him, and he didn't address them. So it doesn't seem to me like that post had any goal of pursuing any real discussion...
Here is another example of a baseless, unwarranted and unprovoked insult from fredtoast. I started a thread to have a little fun with a local news story: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/...m12/HTML/000812.html
And this is fredtoast's response:
quote
Originally posted by fredtoast:
Just trying to reduce the amount of white trash on the river.
And look who gets upset.
This is exactly the kind of thing that sourmash did.
My second post in this thread is a picture from an old TV sitcom, "Leave It To Beaver". Some of the older folks here will remember the character, Eddie Haskell. If you recognized him, you will understand. For those who don't remember Eddie Haskell, he was rude to the Beaver, provided unsolicited, dubious advice to Wally and was a sycophant to Ward and June.
The video in my first post is Koko Taylor singing the Willie Dixon song, "Wang Dang Doodle". Although it is about people gathering for a party, it always sounds like more of a brawl.
quote
Tell automatic slim Tell razor totin' jim Tell butcher knife totin' annie Tell fast talkin' fanny Tonite we're gonna pitch a ball Down to that union hall Gonna romp and tromp 'till midnite We're gonna fuss and fight 'till daylight We're gonna pitch a wang dang doodle all night long
I suppose some of my posts are sufficiently esoteric as to beg an explanation.
[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 08-14-2023).]
I don't think that ray b was out of line, here. He's not calling Jake_Dragon a "Nazi." He's obviously critical (in a negative way) about what he makes of Jake_Dragon's "belief system", but he's not calling Jake_Dragon a "Nazi."
If nothing else, this demonstrates how much effort it would take to examine all of the other "bullet points" in Jake_Dragon's remark.
You should pay more attention. Its not just that one thread. He has call out people for being Russian sympathizers, Nazi and racist. But you just keep telling yourself its always someone else.
I could care less about Ford or his beliefs. The factories put food on the table and then it was gone. Why do you think that happened? Nazi?
Not sure why I keep coming back here. Over 20 years and this place just is not the same. Its always been a place we could come and have fun, even fight sometimes but still have fun. Those days are past, its hard to let go sometimes but perhaps...
Hahah... to be clear, mine (in the image above) was totally a joke. And I think the one about leaving the planet was a joke off of my joke.
Yeah, I think all but one of those threads was just having fun. Mine was the title of a Patsy Cline song and was filled with songs like "Leaving on a Jet Plane" and "How Can I Miss You If You Never Leave"
We used to be able to have fun and be creative, but a few unhappy people had to ruin it.
Like I suggested, the Willie Dixon song above sounds like a fight, but it was about a party. But sometimes some parties end in a fight (or so I've been told). Lord knows I would never hang around those kind of people.
Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: Not sure why I keep coming back here. Over 20 years and this place just is not the same. Its always been a place we could come and have fun, even fight sometimes but still have fun. Those days are past, its hard to let go sometimes but perhaps...
Dude... you definitely shouldn't leave. There's still the O/T and General, and Fiero, and Tech. Lots of places to still shoot the **** . I'd be bummed if you left... just saying. Especially with the pictures you used to post. Hahah...
You should pay more attention. Its not just that one thread. He has call out people for being Russian sympathizers, Nazi and racist. But you just keep telling yourself its always someone else.
I could care less about Ford or his beliefs. The factories put food on the table and then it was gone. Why do you think that happened? Nazi?
Not sure why I keep coming back here. Over 20 years and this place just is not the same. Its always been a place we could come and have fun, even fight sometimes but still have fun. Those days are past, its hard to let go sometimes but perhaps...
you started quoting me with out comment repeatedly then oppose my ideas in the few you do include a few words in and try to claim I am attacking you by calling ford a nazi
my dad knew ford as a person he bought an odd custom car mid 30 scarab from [first mini van rear dr ford v8 ] him sold hood ornaments to thru to his dealers but henry had to approve every deal each year on the official ford items
work for at near V P level and pay as in hired by and reported to personally on the hyd drive car project my dad ran when discussed with the ford job he quit and went to fla to build boats
Its always been a place we could come and have fun...
quote
Originally posted by williegoat:
We used to be able to have fun and be creative, but a few unhappy people had to ruin it.
It wasn't always "fun" for everyone. Do you think this was "fun" for dratts when he was addressed in this vile manner? (Sadly, dratts passed away shortly after this "fun" post.)
Due to concerns raised Here, I'll make it perfectly clear that the screen grab image above was not made of a post by either williegoat or Jake_Dragon.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 08-14-2023).]
