You claimed the Obama administration was spying on Trump, but this is all private parties.
Also the allegations in that story need to be updated. Durhams claims of misdeed by Joffee were dropped and Sussman was acquitted by a jury over these allegations. So I am not sure how much of them are true.
[This message has been edited by BingB (edited 02-20-2024).]
Originally posted by BingB: You claimed the Obama administration was spying on Trump, but this is all private parties.
Also the allegations in that story need to be updated. Durhams claims of misdeed by Joffee were dropped and Sussman was acquitted by a jury over these allegations. So I am not sure how much of them are true.
Umm... maybe you do not understand how this works.
When the government "wiretaps" someone ... and in this case, the FBI, (because they are the one that hold those authorities in the U.S.)... they have to get what's called a FISA court approval. The REASON for this is because there are hundreds of people who evaluate wire taps as part of a secondary or tertiary job as a compliance officer. They spot-check queries and the use of "the system." They used to publish a quarterly report to Congress through NSA's office of Inspector General... but President Obama halted that at some point within the last 3 years of his administration. Trump started it up again as a "semi-annual compliance report" and when Biden became president, he made it classified with a tear-line (meaning only some of it can be released). You can speculate why this is... but at every point until this presidency... the oversight report was totally unclassified.
A person can't simply just "hop on the system" and start spying. There is a long process of approvals for someone who is a U.S. citizen. Both if it's being done willingly (they want to be spied on because they could be in danger), or there's a FOIA request to initiate it. Just like with satellites... unlike in the movies, every workstation does not have a joystick to control satellites. The NSA doesn't do that, that's the NRO... and they don't even use joysticks... it's careful mathematics to move a satellite.
So that means there had to have been a series of approvals, and validation from the top... to allow the spying on Trump. Now, this absolutely would not have been the NSA... it was the FBI, which uses the NSA's system through FISA warrant.
This comment, "So I am not sure how much of them are true," is a willful denial of fact. It is FACT that Trump was spied on... the only question is how far this went up. This is not like the IRS... where one person can do a bunch of things. This was a prolonged "campaign" for which the most senior people would have been notified based on how the system works, and the reports that are sent to leadership on a regular basis. The question is whether or not Obama was directly responsible... but these are not "private parties." God... it's like you literally have no clue how any of this works. This wasn't done by a Stingray... THOSE abuses aren't even recorded.
In this country, we have a long history of wire-tapping political foes. Nixon chose to just break into the DNC... he did it the old fashioned way. George Bush ordered a wire tap on a congressman, Obama... well... damn, he ordered it on several reporters (confirmed), the Senate Intelligence Committee staffers, and while we KNOW it happened to Trump and several of his key staff, we just don't know if Obama himself officially ordered it. You can see that list here: https://thehill.com/opinion...ust-as-he-did-to-me/
Biden said in his first year he would try to stop that... but apparently it didn't work out so well. In fact that when he came in, he fired the director of the Office of Inspector General at the NSA who was bipartisanly hired by Congress to halt the misuse of the system.
What you won't find... AT ALL... is any talk that Trump spied on anyone during his tenure as President, because he didn't. Not against his political opponents, not against reporters, not against the legislature... no one.
You all talk about how horrible Trump is, the reality... you guys really don't know what you're talking about. The fact that all of you are ok with what Biden and Obama, and Bush have done in complete violation of our 4th amendment, and against the democratic process is just beyond me. You people talk about saving "democracy" and yet are the very ones doing everything you can to destroy it.
Don't even bother responding, because it'll just be bull **** to say Democrats are good and none of this is true... and Republicans are bad... and some mental gymnastics to essentially say the end justifies the means. I'm starting to realize that you guys aren't dumb, just willfully ignorant and insane.
[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 02-21-2024).]
Originally posted by BingB: All of the US intelligence agencies agreed that Russia hacked the DNC and interfered with the 2016 election. Trump flat out said that Putin told him he didn't do it and he was believing Vlad over US intelligence.
That is also not true.
50 leaders of US intelligence agencies said Hunter's laptop was Russian disinformation.
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Originally posted by BingB: Trump trusted Putin over his own intelligence agencies. He praised the guy. He actually urged him to hack and release Clinton emails.
Are you a serial liar ?
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Originally posted by BingB: In fact he just re-iterated that point by "ENCOURAGING" Russia to attack other NATO countries.
That is also a lie.
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Originally posted by BingB: ... but I never veered from my original argument.
You never had an argument. You were making allegations so you could be argumentive.
^ “He didn't say that. And if he did, he didn't mean that. And if he did, you didn't understand it. And if you did, it's not a big deal. And if it is, others have said worse!"
STANDARD RUMP FAN EXCUSES
WISE UP SUCKERS HE SAID IT HE MEANT IT HE WILL TRY TO DO IT
"Grand Jury Returns Indictment Charging FBI Confidential Human Source with Felony False Statement and Obstruction Crimes" U.S. Department of Justice; February 15, 2024. https://www.justice.gov/sco...-source-felony-false
Alexander Smirnov... one of the sources that House Republicans have been using in the Trump Mob's muddle-headed efforts to bring Articles of Impeachment against President Biden.
"Indicted ex-FBI informant [Alexander Smirnov] told investigators he got Hunter Biden dirt from Russian intelligence officials" Hannah Rabinowitz and Cheri Mossburg for CNN; February 20, 2024. https://www.cnn.com/2024/02...elligence/index.html
"When It Rains Disinformation, It Pours."
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 02-21-2024).]
What you won't find... AT ALL... is any talk that Trump spied on anyone during his tenure as President, because he didn't. Not against his political opponents, not against reporters, not against the legislature... no one. .
Homeland Security Admits It Tried to Manufacture Fake Terrorists for Trump . . . The Department of Homeland Security launched a failed operation that ensnared hundreds, if not thousands, of U.S. protesters in what new documents show was as a sweeping, effort before the 2020 election to bolster President Donald Trump’s spurious claims about a “terrorist organization” he accused his Democratic rivals of supporting.
An internal investigative report details the findings of DHS lawyers concerning a previously undisclosed effort by Trump’s acting secretary of homeland security, Chad Wolf, to amass secret dossiers on Americans in Portland attending anti-racism protests in summer 2020, raising concerns now about the ability of a sitting president to co-opt billions of dollars’ worth of domestic intelligence assets for their own political gain.
All of the top U.S. intelligence agencies agreed that Russia interfered with the 2016 election. Trump publicly denied this when he met with Putin in Helsinki. He sa hide believes Putin and has repeated it many times.
Former FBI director Andrew McCabe also claimed that Trump believed Putin over his military intelligence when they told him that North Korea had missiles that could reach the United States.
In this country, we have a long history of wire-tapping political foes. Nixon chose to just break into the DNC... he did it the old fashioned way. George Bush ordered a wire tap on a congressman, Obama... well... damn, he ordered it on several reporters (confirmed), the Senate Intelligence Committee staffers, and while we KNOW it happened to Trump and several of his key staff, we just don't know if Obama himself officially ordered it. You can see that list here: https://thehill.com/opinion...ust-as-he-did-to-me/
Sorry, but I read the link and I still don't see where Trump was wire tapped. Could you point that part out? This does not look political at all. It looks criminal. And the guys who were actually wiretapped (Manafort, Page) were convicted of felonies.
"Spying" is different from "law enforcement". Most people do not refer to police officers as "spies". Trump's campaign was subject to a legitimate criminal investigation. Most people consider that different from "spying" and I don't see any proof that Trump was personally wiretapped.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: but these are not "private parties." God... it's like you literally have no clue how any of this works.
You posted an article about the research done by Rodney Joffee (a.k.a. "tech executive 1" in the Michael Sussman indictment). I just pointed out that Joffee was a private citizens who worked for Neustar Inc., a computer contractor that secures and maintains Internet servers for federal agencies, including the White House. The information he mined came from DNS logs that he had access to due to his contract with the government, but he was a private citizen. He was not part of the "Obama administration" and he actually had to present his findings to the FBI because he was not working for them.
Originally posted by BingB: Sorry, but I read the link and I still don't see where Trump was wire tapped. Could you point that part out? This does not look political at all. It looks criminal. And the guys who were actually wiretapped (Manafort, Page) were convicted of felonies.
"Spying" is different from "law enforcement". Most people do not refer to police officers as "spies". Trump's campaign was subject to a legitimate criminal investigation. Most people consider that different from "spying" and I don't see any proof that Trump was personally wiretapped.
I don't have time for a retard discussion where you go round and round. It's been well-established that Trump was wiretapped. All of the "fact-checking" websites that you would reference are from 2017, and refuse to update their information. There's numerous articles out there, and the NSA Director himself reported to Trump that in fact his campaign had been spied on, as was Trump Towers. You can believe what you want, but this has already been established.
I don't have time for a retard discussion where you go round and round. It's been well-established that Trump was wiretapped. All of the "fact-checking" websites that you would reference are from 2017, and refuse to update their information. There's numerous articles out there, and the NSA Director himself reported to Trump that in fact his campaign had been spied on, as was Trump Towers. You can believe what you want, but this has already been established.
We agree that Trumps campaign was under surveillance. It was not "spying", but instead a part of a criminal investigation.
Think what you want, believe what you think. I do not.
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Originally posted by BingB: All of the top U.S. intelligence agencies agreed that Russia interfered with the 2016 election. Trump publicly denied this when he met with Putin in Helsinki. He sa hide believes Putin and has repeated it many times.
What the hell are you smoking.
All of the top U.S. intelligence agencies agreed that Russia interfered with every election. As do democrats.
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Originally posted by BingB: Former FBI director Andrew McCabe also claimed that Trump believed Putin over his military intelligence when they told him that North Korea had missiles that could reach the United States.
Originally posted by cliffw: Do you have a video clip?
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Asked if he believed U.S. intelligence agencies, which concluded that Russia interfered in the 2016 election in an effort to help him defeat Democrat Hillary Clinton, Trump said he was not convinced it was [Russia]. "I don't see any reason why it would be [Russia.] President Putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today."
This Reuters report had "Moscow" instead of "Russia." This is why I put "Russia" with square brackets in my little copy and paste from the Reuters report.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 03-02-2024).]
