This is exactly what I was talking about in the Marco Rubio thread when I said they shouldn't get too greedy. Then again, with the way things are playing out post-assassination attempt this very well may be the time to get greedy. https://www.foxnews.com/pol...is-2024-running-mate
The good: You get a young candidate for the next election to carry the MAGA flag You have close alignment on policy and support base
The bad: You get nothing in the way of new votes, and cover no new ground You signal to both parties you aren't interested in compromise
I'm looking at it from the outside-in, however. What do you all think?
[This message has been edited by NewDustin (edited 07-15-2024).]
Rubio and the N. Dakota governor weren't good picks, Scott and Haley would bring in some votes, but Vance does have a Rust Belt connection that may work with MI, PA and WI.
This is a life insurance pick. If anyone takes out Trump, his policies continue. If he had picked a compromise VP, he would be asking to get assassinated.
This is a life insurance pick. If anyone takes out Trump, his policies continue. If he had picked a compromise VP, he would be asking to get assassinated.
I agree, but more along the lines of Trump is already 1.5 years past the average age of death for a man in the US. Chances are good neither of the current candidates would be able to serve a full term. Also, if he does happen to make it through 4 years, there's someone with plenty of time to carry the incumbent advantage into the next election cycle.
[This message has been edited by NewDustin (edited 07-15-2024).]
I agree, but more along the lines of Trump is already 1.5 years past the average age of death for a man in the US. Chances are good neither of the current candidates would be able to serve a full term. Also, if he does happen to make it through 4 years, there's someone with plenty of time to carry the incumbent advantage into the next election cycle.
I'd agree with you on one of the candidates but, I believe the other one is in much better health. One never knows when our earthly presence will end so, based on that and the two options we're being presented with. I'll take the guy that had a great record while in office. I don't have to like him to know whose term was better for us. Whether we're talking about the price of fuel, buying food at the grocery store or, buying just about anything else. Unions are even turning their backs on the current Dem ticket. That should tell us much.
Regardless, Senator Vance is a better choice than what is currently in that position, he well may help the campaign in purple states.
I would really have liked Ben Carson... but I guess he's technically a bit too old as a VP pick... but I really like Carson. I don't really know a whole lot about JD Vance... but I'm kind of "meh..."
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: technically a bit too old as a VP pick... but I really like Carson.
I agree; he would be older than any President at the time of election other than Biden or Trump, and would be second oldest VP ever elected. He's 20 years older than the median age of VPs.
I can't for the life of me see myself supporting another near-octogenarian for President, or any office at this point. We're Feinstein/McConnelling these people, and I'm kind of over watching Palpatine-esque elected leaders melt of old age.
[This message has been edited by NewDustin (edited 07-15-2024).]
Originally posted by NewDustin:I agree; he would be older than any President at the time of election other than Biden or Trump, and would be second oldest VP ever elected. He's 20 years older than the median age of VPs.
I can't for the life of me see myself supporting another near-octogenarian for President, or any office at this point. We're Feinstein/McConnelling these people, and I'm kind of over watching Palpatine-esque elected leaders melt of old age.
Alzheimer's disease and dementia can happen at almost any age after 50. So, I don't really agree with the whole jump on the bandwagon, "let's trash the oldies" approach that's going through the media. Young people are morons... they just are. When I was younger, I was a complete idiot. I should be dead multiple times over except for some reason, someone felt I should still be alive.
In Advanced Dungeons & Dragons (yes, I just went there), you have something called Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma. Intelligence you're generally born with... you can make yourself a little bit smarter, but your brain capacity is gifted to you at birth. Wisdom is not something you're born with... it's something that's earned and cultivated ... if you will. Granted, not all old people have more wisdom than all young people, but they certainly had more wisdom than they themselves had when they were young. Charisma... well, that's a function of intelligence and wisdom. You cannot be charismatic if you're a moron.
So that leaves Strength and Constitution. Well... physical strength isn't really that important. The First Lady isn't going to be asking the President to help her move furniture while she's redesigning the Oval Office, nor will the President be required to change an alternator or a starter on "The Beast." There are people for that. So that leaves Constitution... you either have it, or you don't. It declines if there's something wrong with you. Biden's Constitution is failing... Trump's is not. Being old does not affect Trump. And if the only thing we're thinking about with Presidents is whether or not they're going to get killed and who will take over for them... then our priorities are really screwed up, or we're buying into the narrative.
I will unequivocally take an older person with a good head on their shoulders (that DOESN'T have dementia), over a young person that hasn't "thought through" all their life's accomplishments and failures yet... ANY DAY. Because that's wisdom.
I agree, but more along the lines of Trump is already 1.5 years past the average age of death for a man in the US. Chances are good neither of the current candidates would be able to serve a full term.
My Dad, 85 years young, is still kicking, HARD. Doing very well, making good decisions. My Grandmother lived to 106 years old.
The bad: You get nothing in the way of new votes, and cover no new ground
Vance has two "home states". One of them is Kentucky which has a Democrat Governor. But I am pretty sure Trump destroyed Biden in Kentucky last time. Not sure how they ended up with a Democrat governor.
Trump loves Vance because he sees his mirror image. Vance will sell our all his morals to support Trump because he lusts for power.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: "let's trash the oldies" approach that's going through the media.
You kids these days and your media. I'm not trashing oldies, I'm concerned about a set of near-mental-incompetents wielding incredible amounts of power. "Can hold in their bowel movements", "don't drift off in the middle of sentences", and "don't get lost on the way to a podium" don't seem to me to be high mental barriers to entry, but I could be mistaken.
quote
In Advanced Dungeons & Dragons (yes, I just went there), you have something called Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma. Intelligence you're generally born with... you can make yourself a little bit smarter, but your brain capacity is gifted to you at birth. Wisdom is not something you're born with... it's something that's earned and cultivated ... if you will. Granted, not all old people have more wisdom than all young people, but they certainly had more wisdom than they themselves had when they were young. Charisma... well, that's a function of intelligence and wisdom. You cannot be charismatic if you're a moron.
So that leaves Strength and Constitution. Well... physical strength isn't really that important. The First Lady isn't going to be asking the President to help her move furniture while she's redesigning the Oval Office, nor will the President be required to change an alternator or a starter on "The Beast." There are people for that. So that leaves Constitution... you either have it, or you don't. It declines if there's something wrong with you. Biden's Constitution is failing... Trump's is not. Being old does not affect Trump. And if the only thing we're thinking about with Presidents is whether or not they're going to get killed and who will take over for them... then our priorities are really screwed up, or we're buying into the narrative.
5e still has all of these, though I would question using DND as an example; I've yet to see more spell slots or a modifier increase from higher INT on any of the candidates. However, intelligence, from a neuroscience perspective, declines with age. Sure, older folks gain in wisdom (which requires experience), but they decline inevitably -and often dramatically and quickly- on fluid intelligence.
quote
I will unequivocally take an older person with a good head on their shoulders (that DOESN'T have dementia), over a young person that hasn't "thought through" all their life's accomplishments and failures yet... ANY DAY. Because that's wisdom.
This is not mutually exclusive. Many people are not "young person(s)" but are not yet at the point of significant mental decay that both Biden and Trump (and lets be real, Ben Carson) are at. Someone in their 40s, 50s, or 60s could easily have enough WIS without having to take disadvantage on all saving throws tied to INT.
I was responding to Todd's post. I felt he had made an erroneous statement. I offered evidence of my claim, with nothing derogatory said about Todd. It also had nothing to do with Joe.
Nevertheless, Joe felt compelled to respond. Not about Todd. Not about Trump. Just about me.
So... who's being the troll?
Maybe you should ask Joe why he's unable stop himself.
Dustin... do you feel I'm a "troll" because I expressed an opinion on a political figure, in a political forum? If so, I'm disappointed to hear that.
No. I was trying to provide an ironic example of being a troll; I don't actually think u r dum. I agree with you a lot, including on this point. I don't really think anyone here is dumb. If you all were dumb you'd be on an MR2 forum. Fans of trolling, hyperbole and non-sequiturs sure, but what's the fun in a P&R without that?
I just hate seeing people make fools of themselves in front of their friends.
Was that comment by any chance intended for me?
If so, it wasn't that long ago that you said you wished you could give me another negative. Remember? So Joe, I don't think your concern is all that genuine.
Originally posted by BingB: Vance has two "home states". One of them is Kentucky which has a Democrat Governor. But I am pretty sure Trump destroyed Biden in Kentucky last time. Not sure how they ended up with a Democrat governor.
The current KY Governor was the former AG and his dad was a former Governor of KY. Name recognition means a lot but, the reason he won is because both Louisville and Lexington are strong Democratic fortresses. The populations in those two areas pretty much dominate KY politics. I was a Governor Appointee under a previous Governor and saw first hand how dirty the Dems can play seeking to stay or get into power.
Originally posted by blackrams: The current KY Governor was the former AG and his dad was a former Governor of KY. Name recognition means a lot but, the reason he won is because both Louisville and Lexington are strong Democratic fortresses. The populations in those two areas pretty much dominate KY politics. I was a Governor Appointee under a previous Governor and saw first hand how dirty the Dems can play seeking to stay or get into power.
Rams
When I worked for the agency, as soon as Biden came in, Government oversight basically came to a screeching halt. It wasn't like this under Obama, and it wasn't like this under Trump... but as soon as Biden came in... that was it. FOIAs were tossed out, and they'd lie on them and say "no information." Compliance for things like... well... the use of our intelligence apparatus... that went out the window. As a matter of fact, they even fired the head of General Counsel at the agency because he had been reporting misuse of the system by FBI. Even the mandatory quarterly reporting to Congress on "incidents" was eliminated, and changed to annually (by executive order), and specifics were removed from all future reports. Security requirements for getting a clearance were reduced, and support for Communism was no longer considered a disqualifying factor. Offensive and defensive missions were essentially halted, and I saw congressional calls for information go completely ignored... with no way for us to provide that information directly to the Congressional oversight board. Everything instead had to be funneled through someone that was appointed by the administration.
Don't get me started... but yeah, I'm bitter... and this "new Democrat" party is diametrically different than what I grew up with in the 90s... or maybe I just never experienced it personally or first hand until now.
US Senate candidate JD Vance also told his former college roommate that the Republican Party had "only itself to blame" for former President Donald Trump's rise to power.
- On Monday, a 2016 Facebook message by Trump-endorsed Senate hopeful JD Vance was leaked.
- In the message, Vance said Trump might either be an "azzhole" like Nixon, or "America's Hitler."
- Vance was endorsed on Friday by Trump for his Senate run in Ohio.
JD Vance, an Ohio Republican Senate hopeful backed by former President Donald Trump, once told his college roommate that he thought Trump might be "America's Hitler."
On Monday, Georgia Rep. Josh McLaurin tweeted an image of a lengthy Facebook message sent to him by Vance in 2016.
In the message, Vance said: "I go back and forth between thinking Trump is a cynical azzhole like Nixon who wouldn't be that bad (and might even prove useful) or that he's America's Hitler."
"How's that for discouraging?" added the "Hillbilly Elegy" author, who shared a room with McLaurin during their first year at Yale Law School.
The message began with Vance saying that he was "not surprised by Trump's rise" and that the Republic Party had "only itself to blame" for it.
"We are, whether we like it or not, the party of lower-income, lower-education white people, and I have been saying for a long time that we need to offer those people SOMETHING (and hell, maybe even expand our appeal to working class black people in the process) or a demagogue would," he added.
In his tweet, McLaurin said Vance's message was essentially an "unfiltered explanation" of the "breakdown in Republican politics that he now personally is trying to exploit."
"The public deserves to know the magnitude of this guy's bad faith," he added.
Vance did not immediately respond to a request for comment from Insider. However, a spokesperson for Vance told Newsweek that the text was "old news" and that Vance is "proud to have President Trump's support."
"Clearly, President Trump trusts that JD is a genuine convert, as out of all the Republican candidates running, he endorsed JD and concluded that he is the strongest America First conservative in the race," said Vance's spokesperson per the outlet.
JD Vance's Yale roommate says he leaked his 'America's Hitler' message about Trump to expose Vance's 'hypocrisy'
Vance was once known to be anti-Trump but is now a supporter of the former president. In April, Ohio Republicans urged Trump not to back Vance for the Senate, asking that he pick a less risky candidate to endorse.
However, Trump persisted in his endorsement of Vance, which was announced on April 15.
Trump and Vance make strange bedfellows, to say the least!
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 07-21-2024).]
Originally posted by Patrick: JD Vance's Yale roommate says he leaked his 'America's Hitler' message about Trump to expose Vance's 'hypocrisy'
Vance was once known to be anti-Trump but is now a supporter of the former president. In April, Ohio Republicans urged Trump not to back Vance for the Senate, asking that he pick a less risky candidate to endorse.
However, Trump persisted in his endorsement of Vance, which was announced on April 15.[/SIZE]
Trump and Vance make strange bedfellows, to say the least!
Just guessing here but I have to assume some folks never re-evaluate previous decisions on others. Kind of a closed mined attitude but, it is what it is.
I personally don't like DJT but, I can get past that due to the policies he had.
------------------ Rams Learning most of life's lessons the hard way. . You are only young once but, you can be immature indefinitely.
Just guessing here but I have to assume some folks never re-evaluate previous decisions on others.
I don't know anything about the guy, but it's one helluva "re-evaluation" going from accusing Trump of being America's Hitler, to being Trump's running mate for the Presidency. I trust Vance has had his neck inspected for whiplash!
HORSE MEDS AND LITES FOR CV-19 ? RUMORS AGAINST EFFECTIVE VAC SHOTS STARTING ROARING INFLATION ? UNWALLED UNFIXED BORDER CRISES [SKILLFULLY STOPPING OF NEW FIX ALSO] LESS JOBS LESS FREEDOM HUGE DEBTS+TAX CUTS = FUTURE DEBTS LIE LIES AND LYING NEVER ''FIXED'' MEDICAL CARE OR COSTS ADDED NEW TAXES CALL TARIFFS PAID BY WORKERS
VS JOE WHO STOP THE RUMP CAUSED INFLATION MORE JOBS THEN EVER BY ANYONE MARKETS AT NEW HIGHS NOW IS RESPECTED DID A GOOD JOB WITH ZIP FROM THE CON'S
If so, I'm disappointed to hear that.
