Originally posted by cliffw: It is fact that anyone can access those type services. Why do the encampments still exist ? Put on some grubby clothes and hang out with them. You will find that almost 100% do not want to give up their addiction or turn their life over to Christ.
I don't need to put clothes on to hang out with those folks; the reason I got involved is homeless vet friends. To a person, those that I know would gladly give up a limb if it meant being truly free of addiction and mental health issues. Addiction sucks, schizophrenia sucks, PTSD sucks...many people cannot just choose their way out of those things. Saying it's because they don't 'want' to may feel emotionally satisfying, but it's a cruel and incorrect way to conceptualized the issue.
I do not know a single state (or province) that can offer free rehab to everyone. There has to be some catch.
If there was enough "free rehab to everyone", the "catch" is that those who are casually saying "they can go into rehab" would be the same one's bitching about how much these services are costing the taxpayer. Can't win!
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 08-09-2024).]
The homeless have been offered free bus tickets to Bandera, Texas... but for whatever strange reason, they refuse to go.
If you're really interested in what the city of Vancouver has done to combat homelessness here, there's this neat thing on the internet called Google. Knock yourself out.
Key strategies include:
Establishment of small, supported campsites throughout the city to mitigate negative impacts to neighborhoods and provide unhoused residents the services they need most on site.
Creation of more Safe Parking Zones to meet increasing demand for safe and well-maintained places for those living in vehicles/RVs to park. The concept is based on the city’s first successful Safe Parking Zone (1504 N.E. 138th Ave.) site established in April 2020.
Expansion of the Talkin’ Trash program or development of another similar litter/waste cleanup program to expand capacity for increased trash collection and incorporated outreach to connect unhoused residents with services.
Expansion of the city’s existing Homeless Assistance and Response Team (HART) to proactively engage unhoused residents with holistic healthcare services through a contract with Columbia River Mental Health.
Okay, you threw out the welcome mat. How did that help decrease the amount of homeless coming to Vancouver ?
[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 08-09-2024).]
I don't need to put clothes on to hang out with those folks; the reason I got involved is homeless vet friends. To a person, those that I know would gladly give up a limb if it meant being truly free of addiction and mental health issues. Addiction sucks, schizophrenia sucks, PTSD sucks...many people cannot just choose their way out of those things. Saying it's because they don't 'want' to may feel emotionally satisfying, but it's a cruel and incorrect way to conceptualized the issue.
Very nicely written and absolutely correct. Thank You.
A miracle is a two part thing. It starts with opportunity. How one responds to the opportunity determines if a miracle happens or if it's null and void.
How many miracles would happen if it was possible to offer "opportunities" for little or no cost to anyone?
Okay, you threw out the welcome mat. How did that help decrease the amount of homeless coming to Vancouver ?
WTF are you talking about? (EDIT: See below.) People are free to travel wherever they want in Canada. I've already explained a major attraction that Vancouver might hold for the homeless. ie they won't freeze to death in the winter. What do you propose... that BC set up checkpoints at the BC/Alberta border with the intent of inspecting traveler's bank ledgers?
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 08-09-2024).]
Originally posted by NewDustin: I don't need to put clothes on to hang out with those folks; the reason I got involved is homeless vet friends. To a person, those that I know would gladly give up a limb if it meant being truly free of addiction and mental health issues. Addiction sucks, schizophrenia sucks, PTSD sucks...many people cannot just choose their way out of those things. Saying it's because they don't 'want' to may feel emotionally satisfying, but it's a cruel and incorrect way to conceptualized the issue.
When did we start sub categorizing the type of homeless ?
You may not know but my Wife of 25 years worked for the Texas State Hospital for 25 years. The Texas State Hospital is the State's mental health facilities located all over Texas. We also cared for a mentally challenged live-in person that her deceased Mom adopted. Considered family.
Addiction, schizophrenia, PTSD are mental issues. Mental issues are not foreign to me. Street homeless have mental issues also.
It is said to walk a mile in my shoes and than you will know what's what. I don't have the answers but do know enabling is not an answer.
Establishment of small, supported campsites throughout the city to mitigate negative impacts to neighborhoods and provide unhoused residents the services they need most on site.
Creation of more Safe Parking Zones to meet increasing demand for safe and well-maintained places for those living in vehicles/RVs to park. The concept is based on the city’s first successful Safe Parking Zone (1504 N.E. 138th Ave.) site established in April 2020.
Expansion of the Talkin’ Trash program or development of another similar litter/waste cleanup program to expand capacity for increased trash collection and incorporated outreach to connect unhoused residents with services.
Expansion of the city’s existing Homeless Assistance and Response Team (HART) to proactively engage unhoused residents with holistic healthcare services through a contract with Columbia River Mental Health.
I was wondering what the heck you were going on about... until the last line... and then it hit me... you need a freakin' geography lesson! lol
There are hundreds... it's paid for by Medicaid, and / or (in the state of Florida) Florida sponsored tax programs.
There are also dozens of charity ones that are run by Christian organizations, like Faith Farm, Homeless Voice, etc...
Hundreds?
You think that is enough for all the homeless people in Florida with drug addiction problems? Go back and look at that list of "6 big ones". Some of them have zero residential treatment. One only has 32 beds.
You think that is enough for all the homeless people in Florida with drug addiction problems? Go back and look at that list of "6 big ones". Some of them have zero residential treatment. One only has 32 beds.
You're missing the point.
There are MORE than enough beds of the hundreds and hundreds of drug rehabilitation centers available, to lodge all the people who WANT to get better.
A drug-addicted person has to WANT to get better... before they can get help. But this brings us to a point which I think you are intentionally glossing over.
Liberal cities do not charge or imprison chronic drug users, the state of Florida does. Not for marijuana, but for things like meth, crack, fentanyl, etc. If you are caught using these in public, you are arrested, and if deemed drug-addicted, you are forced into one of these rehab facilities with a misdemeanor, often contingent on completing your rehab.
In Florida, we do not allow public vagrancy, encampments, defecation, or drug use. There are a lot of options available to a homeless person, but getting off drugs is absolutely contingent on most of their options.
Phoenix has a homeless problem in the winter. In the summer, they have a very short shelf life.
They get intoxicated, pass out on the sidewalk and in short order, they are toast, literally.
The left likes to cite higher heat related deaths in AZ as proof of global warming, but the truth is the increase is the result of an increase in drug overdoses as described, combined with an increase in human trafficking across the southern border. The most deadly border in the world is 120 miles from my front door.
In Phoenix, when the business owners forced the city to clean up the homeless encampment, the homeless went to the shelters. I posted about it when it happened.
Phoenix has a homeless problem in the winter. In the summer, they have a very short shelf life.
They get intoxicated, pass out on the sidewalk and in short order, they are toast, literally.
I suspect it wasn't your intent, but thank-you anyway for reinforcing the point I was making earlier in this thread. Perhaps Todd will more willingly accept information that comes from you rather than from me.
Excuse me sir, we notice you've been sleeping in a tent in one of our beautiful Vancouver parks. Could you please relocate back to Winnipeg, where it's currently -20°C this fine December. Or... Excuse me ma'am, it's been observed that you've been squatting in this abandoned San Francisco warehouse. Could you please move back to your hometown of Phoenix, where it's currently 116°F this fine July.
There is not a single state in the country that does. There are waiting lists everywhere.
You are absolutely, 100% incorrect. I can speak for Florida... and there are plenty of drug rehabilitation centers that anyone can walk into and get rehabilitation services. For most people, these services are Federally paid for by Medicaid, but many states (including Florida) also have their own funding lines. There are also charity-driven (not for profit) organizations that do this as well, not only provide rehabilitation services, but also provide lodging, long-term care, and even provide work and help them get apartments after they recover. Here's one that I know of quite well: https://www.faithfarm.org/ One of the jobs that they offer those being rehabilitated is a thrift store, and they always have cool stuff. That's just one of hundreds of charity (mostly Christian and Jewish) based organizations that do that.
And to your point, it's ridiculous that you presume to think that there are waiting lists everywhere. The government funds this through Medicaid, which is basically every single person that comes into a rehab center since there are no homeless billionaires. There are state and county-funded rehab centers, but the vast majority of them are private businesses and more than happy to expand and grow where there is demand. Waiting lists are the exception, not the preponderance.
And... and... and? Neither you nor I are medical experts. What's the point of arguing about which occurred first... mental illness or drug abuse? The end result is millions of deranged individuals living on the street in cities around the world.
Agreed, they have a problem, not my issue. Bad decisions have consequences. Not much sympathy here for idiots choosing that path.
------------------ Rams Learning most of life's lessons the hard way. . You are only young once but, you can be immature indefinitely.
Originally posted by NewDustin: Saying it's because they don't 'want' to may feel emotionally satisfying, but it's a cruel and incorrect way to conceptualized the issue.
An interesting opinion. I don't happen to agree but it's still interesting.
When one starts digging a hole and can't figure out how to get out of it, they might want to stop digging.
------------------ Rams Learning most of life's lessons the hard way. . You are only young once but, you can be immature indefinitely.
Agreed, they have a problem, not my issue. Bad decisions have consequences.
The "consequences" may be drug addicts/homeless breaking into your house or stealing your truck(s) to support their addiction. Then it most certainly becomes your "issue".
quote
Originally posted by blackrams:
Not much sympathy here for idiots choosing that path.
You'd probably be surprised how similar our views might be regarding "sympathy" for drug addicts. However, sympathy or not, this problem of mass drug abuse needs to be dealt with somehow. It's not going to magically stop being a huge problem without some sort of intervention.
When did we start sub categorizing the type of homeless ?
I...uh...didn't? In response to the suggestions that I change my clothes so I could converse with a homeless person I said I wouldn't need to, and said why. I don't control which of my friends are homeless or why; that's just the reason.
quote
You may not know but my Wife of 25 years worked for the Texas State Hospital for 25 years. The Texas State Hospital is the State's mental health facilities located all over Texas. We also cared for a mentally challenged live-in person that her deceased Mom adopted. Considered family.
Addiction, schizophrenia, PTSD are mental issues. Mental issues are not foreign to me. Street homeless have mental issues also.
It is said to walk a mile in my shoes and than you will know what's what. I don't have the answers but do know enabling is not an answer.
I agree with everything you said here, and respect the hell out of both what your wife has done and you all accepting and helping a family member with mental issues.
Homelessness, mental illness, and drug addiction go hand-in-hand. It's such a common statistic that I can't hold the individual entirely responsible for getting caught in the same trap that catches a huge chunk of everyone in their situation. I know people in these situations, and they cannot choose their way out on their own; they need help, and nobody I've ever witnessed knows how to give it to them appropriately (me included). It's just incorrect to imply those folks are in that situation by continuous, ongoing choice; so many of them have lost their agency.
You'd probably be surprised how similar our views might be regarding "sympathy" for drug addicts. However, sympathy or not, this problem of mass drug abuse needs to be dealt with somehow. It's not going to magically stop being a huge problem without some sort of intervention.
Well, about half the US (maybe less) would not agree with my opinion, attitude or response on how to fix this. Admittedly, I'm a hard ass when it comes to people making stupid decisions. The consequences of such decisions must be painful or, those decisions will only be repeated again and again.
Edited: Oh, and if, someone decides to attempt to steal from me or threaten family members, the end result would be a learning lesson, that I can assure you. This assumes I am aware of the attempt obviously. The old saying of F__k around and find out is applicable here.
------------------ Rams Learning most of life's lessons the hard way. . You are only young once but, you can be immature indefinitely.
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 08-11-2024).]
You'd probably be surprised how similar our views might be regarding "sympathy" for drug addicts. However, sympathy or not, this problem of mass drug abuse needs to be dealt with somehow. It's not going to magically stop being a huge problem without some sort of intervention.
Regardless of our views on the border... the vast majority of these drugs are coming through the southern border. The US needs to close the southern border, period. Immigration is fine... but we can't have caravans of thousands of people illegally streaming through. It's being used by China as a direct result to destabilize our country... that is unfortunately fact.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Regardless of our views on the border... the vast majority of these drugs are coming through the southern border. The US needs to close the southern border, period. Immigration is fine... but we can't have caravans of thousands of people illegally streaming through. It's being used by China as a direct result to destabilize our country... that is unfortunately fact.
Wait? What?
You do realize that most of the drugs are coming through legal checkpoints, right? So are you saying close down the entire border including the legal crossing? No one at all allowed to move from US to Mexico?
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: You are absolutely, 100% incorrect. I can speak for Florida... and there are plenty of drug rehabilitation centers that anyone can walk into and get rehabilitation services..
Once again you just made up something in your head and pretended it was true. Here are the true facts. It is just like EVERY OTHER STATE. There are nnot enough inpatient rehab beds to meet the demand.
State-Funded Rehab in Florida: The facilities that are operated and funded by the state are paid for by grants, both at the federal level, as well as the state and county levels of government. Most of these sliding-scale fee rehab programs are filled with clients who are there for deferred drug or alcohol offenses. Being that these programs are used by the courts heavily, getting someone into one of these programs without a lengthy waiting list can be next to impossible.
BTW sorry that my desire to get facts correct triggers you so badly, but I feel it is my duty to correct misinformation.
You do realize that most of the drugs are coming through legal checkpoints, right? So are you saying close down the entire border including the legal crossing? No one at all allowed to move from US to Mexico?
'Most of the drugs that have been intercepted have come through legal entryways', would be a more accurate description.
We have no good info on how much is coming across outside of the legal checkpoints.
Your statement is a talking point, is unproven; therefore it is MISINFORMATION.
-Over 90 percent of fentanyl border seizures occur at legal border crossings and interior vehicle checkpoints (and 91 percent of drug seizures at checkpoints are from U.S. citizens—only 4 percent by “potentially removable” immigrants).
-The DEA reports that criminal organizations “exploit major highway routes for transportation, and the most common method employed involves smuggling illicit drugs through U.S. [ports of entry] in passenger vehicles with concealed compartments or commingled with legitimate goods on tractor-trailers.” Several agencies including CBP, ICE, and DHS intelligence told Congress in May 2022 the same thing: hard drugs come through ports of entry.
-Just 0.02 percent of the people arrested by Border Patrol for crossing illegally possessed any fentanyl whatsoever. Border Patrol agents who were not at vehicle checkpoints accounted for just 9 percent of the fentanyl seizures near the border.
-In 2021, U.S. citizens accounted for 86.3 percent of fentanyl trafficking convictions compared to just 8.9 percent for illegal immigrants. . . People with U.S. citizenship or residence traffic the vast majority of fentanyl, not illegal border crossers specifically or illegal immigrants generally. . . . Since it is easier for U.S. citizens to cross legally than noncitizens, it makes sense for fentanyl producers to hire U.S. citizen smugglers.
[This message has been edited by BingB (edited 08-11-2024).]
Most have never seen the region, let alone the process, so their concept is based on romanticized fiction. They will choose "facts" which keep them in their comfort zone.
Most have never seen the region, let alone the process, so their concept is based on romanticized fiction. They will choose "facts" which keep them in their comfort zone.
aka it is eazy for the trump to lie about who does bring in the F or C or M
why the Gop allows the lies and even supports the lies but never ever questions any of them
Originally posted by NewDustin: I...uh...didn't? In response to the suggestions that I change my clothes so I could converse with a homeless person I said I wouldn't need to, and said why. I don't control which of my friends are homeless or why; that's just the reason.
My mistake ? You mentioned your work was because of homeless veterans.
quote
Originally posted by NewDustin: I agree with everything you said here, and respect the hell out of both what your wife has done and you all accepting and helping a family member with mental issues.
[/QUOTE]
She was not a family member, but became one. She is one of two my Wife's Mother adopted. The other is also family.
Originally posted by BingB: Once again you just made up something in your head and pretended it was true. Here are the true facts. It is just like EVERY OTHER STATE. There are nnot enough inpatient rehab beds to meet the demand.
State-Funded Rehab in Florida: The facilities that are operated and funded by the state are paid for by grants, both at the federal level, as well as the state and county levels of government. Most of these sliding-scale fee rehab programs are filled with clients who are there for deferred drug or alcohol offenses. Being that these programs are used by the courts heavily, getting someone into one of these programs without a lengthy waiting list can be next to impossible.
BTW sorry that my desire to get facts correct triggers you so badly, but I feel it is my duty to correct misinformation.
I said there are dozens of free resources for drug-addicted people, such as Federally funded, private, and charity organizations, INCLUDING state-funded. The link you posted literally provides hundreds of resources for someone to get rehab, including at least 12 different ways that it's paid for. Fred, if you were looking for exculpatory information for me... you just found it.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: I said there are dozens of free resources for drug-addicted people, such as Federally funded, private, and charity organizations, INCLUDING state-funded. The link you posted literally provides hundreds of resources for someone to get rehab, including at least 12 different ways that it's paid for. Fred, if you were looking for exculpatory information for me... you just found it.
You have never once listed any source that says there are enough inpatient re-hab beds for all the homeless people in Florida with mental health or drug addiction problems.
You just make up stuff like that in your head and pretend it is true, but it isn't. I just posted a link that proves otherwise. If there were enough free beds then there would be no long wait lists. I post facts while you post baseless opinions.
And again you don't understand the difference between "inpatient" and "outpatient". There are many more outpatient treatment facilities than inpatient. Homeless people need inpatient.
lol
