What does it say about us if we accept a world where we arm and fund a nation that kills and wounds hundreds of innocents a day?
What does it say about us if we support an orchestrated famine and the poisoning of the water supply where the polio virus has been detected, meaning tens of thousands will get sick and many will die?
What does it say about us if we permit for 10 months the bombing of refugee camps, hospitals, villages and cities to wipe out families and force survivors to camp out in the open or find shelter in crude tents?
What does it say about us when we accept the murder of 16,456 children, although this is surely an undercount?
What does it say about us when we watch Israel escalate attacks on United Nations facilities, schools — including the Al-Tabaeen school in Gaza City, where over 100 Palestinians were killed while performing the Fajr, or dawn prayers — and other emergency shelters?
What does it say about us when we permit Israel to use Palestinians as human shields by forcing handcuffed civilians, including children and the elderly, to enter potentially booby-trapped tunnels and buildings in advance of Israeli troops, at times dressed in Israeli military uniforms?
What does it say about us when we support politicians and soldiers who defend the rape and torture of prisoners?
Are these the kinds of allies we want to empower? Is this behavior we want to embrace? What message does this send to the rest of the world?
If we do not hold fast to moral imperatives, we are doomed. Evil will triumph. It means there is no right and wrong. It means anything, including mass murder, is permissible. Protestors outside the Democratic National Convention at the United Center in Chicago demand an end to the genocide and U.S. aid to Israel, but inside we are fed a sickening conformity. Hope lies in the streets.
A moral stance always has a cost. If there is no cost, it is not moral. It is merely conventional belief.
So you're sure there is a Hell? How would Hell exist without God?
No I do not believe in hell at all. The term "as hell" is what is called a "figure of speech". A "figure of speech" is a word or phrase that intentionally deviates from straightforward language use or literal meaning to produce a rhetorical or intensified effect.
So you're sure there is a Hell? How would Hell exist without God?
imaginary friends and places is not good for governments
do you know what a "P" wave is or an "S" just as hubble nor web can find a trace of a heaven let alone 7 of them the earthquake waves say no hell ether
sorry deluded deplorable goat herders are not a good subject for data on life the universe and everything mr adams was far closer with 42 then your buybull
only our many christo -fascists think the jews are correct religious delusions are deplorable when used to kill unjustly the arabs are not going away and have more rights to their lands
only our many christo -fascists think the jews are correct religious delusions are deplorable when used to kill unjustly the arabs are not going away and have more rights to their lands
So true Joe. It is like Global Warming. Claiming genocide makes people believe it's true.
Why don't those Palestinians become refugees ? Nobody wants to allow Palestinians on their soil.
Nobody wants to let Israel displace millions of people from their homes into neighboring countries except Israel. It's not that Egypt (or Jordan or wherever) is worried militants will attack them, they're worried the displaced refugees will have militants that will attack Israel from their country, and they don't want any further part of the conflict.
Nobody wants to let Israel displace millions of people from their homes into neighboring countries except Israel. It's not that Egypt (or Jordan or wherever) is worried militants will attack them, they're worried the displaced refugees will have militants that will attack Israel from their country, and they don't want any further part of the conflict.
In addition to that, factions within the neighboring Arab countries want the Palestinians in Gaza to keep the controversy and unrest ongoing.
The Gaza area gets a LOT of relief money from the West, those funds are controlled by HAMAS and little goes to the Palestinians. It wouldn't be much of a stretch to think that some of that money goes to Egypt, Jordan, Syria and etc.
Originally posted by olejoedad: In addition to that, factions within the neighboring Arab countries want the Palestinians in Gaza to keep the controversy and unrest ongoing.
The Gaza area gets a LOT of relief money from the West, those funds are controlled by HAMAS and little goes to the Palestinians. It wouldn't be much of a stretch to think that some of that money goes to Egypt, Jordan, Syria and etc.
I agree with a lot of this. Palestine is convenient because there is no clear "right" or "wrong" side in the conflict at it's roots; you have one group citing their religious texts and another group citing a competing set of religious texts with exactly the same amount of historical verifiability. It makes for the perfect endless conflict, and an extremely convenient place to fight ideological/religious proxy wars. I would go as far as to say this hasn't ended because none of the power brokers involved really want it to end.
So true Joe. It is like Global Warming. Claiming genocide makes people believe it's true.
Why don't those Palestinians become refugees ? Nobody wants to allow Palestinians on their soil.
why don't the jews who were not born there go back to the country they were born in and let the people who were born there back in on their soil.
is it fair or just that any jew any where can go to the occupied holy land to visit or become an instant citizen with full rights while no person who is not a jew can enter even if born there and a land owner and those who never left are never allowed any rights
and you ask why they do not just leave WHAT A ONE SIDED BIASED STUPID QUESTION
In addition to that, factions within the neighboring Arab countries want the Palestinians in Gaza to keep the controversy and unrest ongoing.
The Gaza area gets a LOT of relief money from the West, those funds are controlled by HAMAS and little goes to the Palestinians. It wouldn't be much of a stretch to think that some of that money goes to Egypt, Jordan, Syria and etc.
why don't the jews who were not born there go back to the country they were born in and let the people who were born there back in on their soil.
is it fair or just that any jew any where can go to the occupied holy land to visit or become an instant citizen with full rights while no person who is not a jew can enter even if born there and a land owner and those who never left are never allowed any rights
and you ask why they do not just leave WHAT A ONE SIDED BIASED STUPID QUESTION
why don't the jews who were not born there go back to the country they were born in and let the people who were born there back in on their soil.
is it fair or just that any jew any where can go to the occupied holy land to visit or become an instant citizen with full rights while no person who is not a jew can enter even if born there and a land owner and those who never left are never allowed any rights
and you ask why they do not just leave WHAT A ONE SIDED BIASED STUPID QUESTION
Why don't the illegal border crossers go back home and quit wasting the American taxpayers dollars?
Is it fair that people can enter our country illegally and receive the American taxpayers dollars?
[This message has been edited by olejoedad (edited 08-22-2024).]
Originally posted by cliffw: So true Joe. It is like Global Warming. Claiming genocide makes people believe it's true.
Why don't those Palestinians become refugees ? Nobody wants to allow Palestinians on their soil.
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Originally posted by NewDustin: Nobody wants to let Israel displace millions of people from their homes into neighboring countries except Israel.
Israel does not want to displace millions of people from their homes into neighboring countries. That could have been done long ago and many times over. The chant was not "from the river to the sea, Palestine will never be".
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Originally posted by NewDustin: It's not that Egypt (or Jordan or wherever) is worried militants will attack them, they're worried the displaced refugees will have militants that will attack Israel from their country, and they don't want any further part of the conflict.
Egyptian Muslims are adherents of Sunni Islam. Palestinian Muslims are Shia. They don't play well together.
[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 08-22-2024).]
Originally posted by cliffw: Israel does not want to displace millions of people from their homes into neighboring countries. That could have been done long ago and many times over.
You mean like when they took the Gaza Strip, Golan Heights, and the West Bank in 1967?
Why don't the illegal border crossers go back home and quit wasting the American taxpayers dollars?
Is it fair that people can enter our country illegally and receive the American taxpayers dollars?
that applys to the jews who are invading and stealing the arabs lands btw those jews are receiving '' American taxpayers dollars'' to support the taking of the arabs lands why are we doing that ?
Israel does not want to displace millions of people from their homes into neighboring countries. That could have been done long ago and many times over. The chant was not "from the river to the sea, Palestine will never be".
BS that is the plan kill them or run them out
THAT IS THE ONLY PLAN SO YOU LIE FOR THE JEWS TO THE MEMBERS HERE
Originally posted by cliffw: Israel does not want to displace millions of people from their homes into neighboring countries. That could have been done long ago and many times over. The chant was not "from the river to the sea, Palestine will never be".
I'm not going to hold the Palestinians innocent, nor am I going to defend their strategic choices. They could have "won" this conflict a dozen times over if they were historically willing to compromise, even a little. However, a huge portion of Israel absolutely wants to displace the Palestinians, including those driving their policies on Gaza:
“We must promote a solution to encourage the emigration of the residents of Gaza.” -Israeli National Security Minister, Itamar Ben-Gvir
"Israel will rule there. And in order to rule there securely for a long time, we must have a civilian presence.” -Israeli Defense and Finance Minister, Bezalel Smotrich
“The general range goes from about 25% who want to re-establish permanent communities, Jewish Israeli communities in Gaza, to somewhere in the 40% range. That is not a small portion of Israeli society.” -Israeli Journalist Dahlia Scheindlin, on a poll conducted by Haaretz
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Originally posted by cliffw: Egyptian Muslims are adherents of Sunni Islam. Palestinian Muslims are Shia. They don't play well together.
That is certainly part of it, but Egypt and Jordan will outright tell you they don't want Palestinian refugees because they: 1) Have already taken in an extreme number of refugees, including Palestinians 2) Don't want to let Israel displace the Palestinians as a tactic to take away the chance of a Palestinian state 3) Don't want a bunch of displaced militants launching attacks on Israel from their countries
Originally posted by NewDustin: Don't want to let Israel displace the Palestinians as a tactic to take away the chance of a Palestinian state.
What am I missing ? Palistinians elected their own overlords (Hamas). They have their own territory. Gaza and the West Bank. What makes them not a State ?
Fact is, the Israels were the only one helping the Palestinians.
Originally posted by cliffw: What am I missing ? Palistinians elected their own overlords (Hamas). They have their own territory. Gaza and the West Bank. What makes them not a State ?
A lot. You are dramatically over-simplifying the political and social issues that have played into the region's history. Blaming people for their own oppression may be emotionally satisfying, but it is just-world bias manifest.
I would also argue that the way Israel handles Gaza and the West Bank are prime examples of how the Palestinians do not have a state. Imagine Mexico passing a law that allowed "Mexican Settlers" to evict folks living in Aztlan and re-establish Mexican settlements there. Wouldn't you assume us having a sovereign state would stop that from happening?
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Fact is, the Israels were the only one helping the Palestinians.
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