Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Are you going to tell me the Earth is flat? or that Trump colluded with Russia, or that masks block COVID? Sigh... you're a friggin' conspiracy theorist. Next you're going to tell me the holocaust was faked.
You just posted a source that says Jews have not been in control of that territory on over 3000 years.
Were there some Jews there during this time? Sure. I will not dispute that.
Does that give them any claim to the land at all? Not unless you want to give them a claim to every other country on earth because Jews are pretty much everywhere.
Originally posted by olejoedad: So you're sure there is a Hell? How would Hell exist without God?
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Originally posted by Yellow-88: Neither of those words are "real things". They are concepts created by humans. That confusion may be the reason for so much fighting about it.
You just posted a source that says Jews have not been in control of that territory on over 3000 years.
Were there some Jews there during this time? Sure. I will not dispute that.
Does that give them any claim to the land at all? Not unless you want to give them a claim to every other country on earth because Jews are pretty much everywhere.
That's not at all what it says. It says that they were there first, and then went over the back and forth "conquest" of the land as it changed hands from pagans, to the Israelites, to the Arabs, to the Christians, to the Arabs again, to the Jews, then to the Arabs, etc. The total time the land has been occupied, the Jews have collectively been there the longest, then the Christians, and then the Arabs.
You can't have it both ways Bing. If you're all about the colonizers not having claim to the land, well... the colonizers are the Arabs as they didn't even exist until 700 AD. If you're saying the Arabs have the right to be there, then you're advocating for "he who has the power wins," and in that case... it's the Jews right now. So what the hell are you even arguing? There is no basis for your argument...
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: That's not at all what it says. It says that they were there first, and then went over the back and forth "conquest" of the land as it changed hands from pagans, to the Israelites, to the Arabs, to the Christians, to the Arabs again, to the Jews, then to the Arabs, etc. The total time the land has been occupied, the Jews have collectively been there the longest, then the Christians, and then the Arabs.
You can't have it both ways Bing. If you're all about the colonizers not having claim to the land, well... the colonizers are the Arabs as they didn't even exist until 700 AD. If you're saying the Arabs have the right to be there, then you're advocating for "he who has the power wins," and in that case... it's the Jews right now. So what the hell are you even arguing? There is no basis for your argument...
A MADE UPGOD IS NOT A REAL ESTATE AGENT
THE JEWS NEED TO LEARN TO RESPECT THE RIGHTS OF THE NATIVES
200 YEARS OF RULE 2700 YEARS AGO IS NOT A TITLE ENFORCEABLE TODAY
WITHOUT AMERICAN FUNDING THEY WILL NOT LAST LONG SO WHY ARE WE FUNDING THEM ?
You can't have it both ways Bing. If you're all about the colonizers not having claim to the land, well... the colonizers are the Arabs as they didn't even exist until 700 AD. If you're saying the Arabs have the right to be there, then you're advocating for "he who has the power wins," and in that case... it's the Jews right now. So what the hell are you even arguing? There is no basis for your argument...
My position is pretty simple.
The UN tried to carve out a nation from a Muslim area to create a homeland for the Jews that did not exist. I don't care about hundreds or thousands of years ago. I care about 1946.
[This message has been edited by BingB (edited 09-02-2024).]
It interesting how some people don't know that land was purchased, not taken by fiat.
Sold willingly by the people that were there, to the people that are now their.
Maybe it's that willful ignorance that we've been preached to about......
a few turks who were owners who did not live there sold land they did not live on early on in the 20 or 30's
very few arab natives sold land far too many had their land stolen home and groves bulldozed by the occupier's army a few were forced sales not near market dirty deals at gun point whole villages were murdered and the land taken
Originally posted by BingB: The UN tried to carve out a nation from a Muslim area to create a homeland for the Jews that did not exist. I don't care about hundreds or thousands of years ago. I care about 1946.
"the Assyrian account diverges somewhat from the Biblical one; whereas the Assyrian inscriptions describes the campaign as a resounding success, in which tribute was regained, some states were annexed outright and Sennacherib even managed to stop Egyptian ambitions in the region, the Bible describes Sennacherib suffering a crushing defeat outside Jerusalem. Since Hezekiah, the king of Judah (who ruled Jerusalem), paid a heavy tribute to Sennacherib after the campaign, modern scholars consider it more likely that the Biblical account, motivated by theological concerns, is highly distorted and that Sennacherib succeeded in his goals of the campaign and re-imposed Assyrian authority in the region."
Jews "claim" to the land is "A magic guy in the sky said it would always be ours."
How could anyone possibly disagree with that?
Are you Islamic ? Muhammad, born around 570, AD in Mecca (now in Saudi Arabia). Born 570 years after Jesus sacrificed his life on the Cross.
Muhammad also believed in "a magic guy in the sky".
Muhammad was an Arab religious, social, and political leader and the founder of Islam. According to Islamic doctrine, he was a prophet divinely inspired to preach and confirm the monotheistic teachings of Jesus. He wrote the whole Quran.
Are you Islamic ? Muhammad, born around 570, AD in Mecca (now in Saudi Arabia). Born 570 years after Jesus sacrificed his life on the Cross.
Muhammad also believed in "a magic guy in the sky".
Muhammad was an Arab religious, social, and political leader and the founder of Islam. According to Islamic doctrine, he was a prophet divinely inspired to preach and confirm the monotheistic teachings of Jesus. He wrote the whole Quran.
I don't care about the Muslim claim to the area based on Ishmeal being the first-born son of Abraham (but they do have a point based on the rules back then). I just look at who was living there in 1946.
[This message has been edited by BingB (edited 09-02-2024).]
Palestinians. They owned over 90% of the land and accounted four between two-thirds and three-quarters of the population at the time the UN Resolution for "partition" was passed in '47.
The area had been controlled by the British since they won it in WWI, but they agreed to give up control and let the new UN decide what would happen to the area.
[This message has been edited by BingB (edited 09-02-2024).]
It's always the past tense when it comes to this kind of crap with you Leftoids.
America was "stolen" from the Indians, blah, blah, blah....
I know it's hard for Lefties, but let's talk about reality.
Tell us WHO owns and controls ISRAEL today.
You can give Amazon your $15, get yourself a keffiyeh, play dress-up and prance around chanting slogans with your anti-Semite friends all you want, but NONE of that is going to make Israel go away.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 09-02-2024).]
Originally posted by cliffw: Who owned the other 93% ?
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Originally posted by BingB: Palestinians. They owned over 90% of the land and accounted four between two-thirds and three-quarters of the population at the time the UN Resolution for "partition" was passed in '47.
Palestinians ? You leftoids are kooky.
How much of the land do the palestinians own now ? 91% ?
Originally posted by randye: It's always the past tense when it comes to this kind of crap with you Leftoids.
America was "stolen" from the Indians, blah, blah, blah....
I know it's hard for Lefties, but let's talk about reality.
Tell us WHO owns and controls ISRAEL today.
You can give Amazon your $15, get yourself a keffiyeh, play dress-up and prance around chanting slogans with your anti-Semite friends all you want, but NONE of that is going to make Israel go away.
it is owned by BEBE WHO FINANCED THIS WAR the arabs were set up long before the oct attack
the war criminal zionist leader is playing chess he knew long ago what when and why the attack would happen it is his plan that there will never be a two state peace BEBE set up Qatar to fund the rebellion knowing what they were doing
BEBE LIKE THE RUMP IS A RWNJ CRIMINAL WHO IS SUPPORTED BY OUR RWNJ CULTISTS
How much of the land do the palestinians own now ? 91% ?
you should learn before you ask stupid questions VERY VERY LITTLE MANY OWNERS CANNOT GO BACK TO THEIR LANDS OTHERS HAVE HAD THE LAND STOLEN
Are Palestinians allowed to buy land in Israel? In Israel, Palestinians cannot buy state land, which is 91 percent of the country's territory, and state land held by the Jewish National Fund cannot even be leased to Israeli Arabs.
SO NO THEY CAN'T
The Custodian of Absentee Property does not choose to discuss politics. But when asked how much of the land of the state of Israel might potentially have two claimants — an Arab and a Jew holding respectively a British Mandate and an Israeli deed to the same property — Mr. Manor [the Custodian in 1980] believes that 'about 70 percent' might fall into that category.
JIM CROW WAS FAR KINDER AND GENTLER THEN THE JEWS LAWS ON THE ARAB NATIVES
Originally posted by BingB: Sorry, but what does your source of information say about who owned the area of Palestine in 1946?
Who do you you claimed owned it?
You need to quit using Giggle as your search engine.
Those who owned the region Palestine in 1946 are mostly the same people who owned it when the League of Nations gave their opinion just after WW I.
The region was owned by the British. Which was conceded by the Ottoman Empire following World War I. The region included the states or territories of Turkey, Cyprus, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, Israel, the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, Jordan, Egypt, Sudan, Libya, and the various states and territories of Arabia proper (Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Yemen, Oman, Bahrain, Qatar, and the Trucial States, or Trucial Oman [now United Arab Emirates]). Which did not include a State of Palestine.
In fact, Palestinians live in all of those territories.
You need to quit using Giggle as your search engine.
Those who owned the region Palestine in 1946 are mostly the same people who owned it when the League of Nations gave their opinion just after WW I.
The region was owned by the British. Which was conceded by the Ottoman Empire following World War I. The region included the states or territories of Turkey, Cyprus, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, Israel, the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, Jordan, Egypt, Sudan, Libya, and the various states and territories of Arabia proper (Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Yemen, Oman, Bahrain, Qatar, and the Trucial States, or Trucial Oman [now United Arab Emirates]). Which did not include a State of Palestine.
In fact, Palestinians live in all of those territories.
British had political control but they did not own the property
What source of information told you that the British owned all that land? You keep criticizing my choices, but you never tell me what you use.
Originally posted by BingB: British had political control but they did not own the property
Who did ?
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Originally posted by BingB: What source of information told you that the British owned all that land? You keep criticizing my choices, but you never tell me what you use.
THE FACTS ARE THE JEWS STOLE THE LAND FROM THE NATIVES
THE RELIGIOUS APARTHEID IS THE REAL ANTI-SEMITE ACTION REMEMBER 95% OF THE SEMITIC PEOPLE ARE NOT JEWS HOW DID THE JEWS STEAL A MOSTLY ARAB/MOSLEM ID ? SEMTIC
NO ARAB IN THE AREA CAN RETURN TO THEIR BIRTH PLACE ANY JEW IS WELCOME FROM ANYWHERE THE JEWS ARE NOT FAIR AND DO NOT SHARE SETTLERS ARE THE NAME GIVE TO LATEST LAND STEALERS THEY ARE ARMED AND ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS BUT NEVER MENTIONED AS TERRORIST BUT DO MOST OF THE WESTBANK KILLINGS
https://onlinelibrary.wiley...1111/1467-923X.13166 Perhaps most significant is the mythical construction that the ‘Arabs’, who in 1948 owned 90 per cent of the land and constituted 67 per cent of the population—even after decades of settlement from Jewish emigration from Europe—voluntarily just up and left Palestine because their leaders told them to.
Eugene Rogan (2017), "The Arabs: A History" "By 1947 the Arabs of Palestine constituted a two-thirds majority with over 1.2 million people, compared to 600,000 Jews in Palestine ... Arabs owned 94 percent of the total land area of Palestine and some 80 percent of the arable farmland of the country.";
Manna, Adel (2013). "The Palestinian Nakba and Its Continuous Repercussions" "At the end of 1947 the Arabs of Palestine ... possessed about 90% of Palestine's privately-owned land."
So let me ask you again what your source of information is that says all of this is false. You seem pretty proud of it. Why do you keep it a secret? Is it because your source is just stuff you make up in your head?
[This message has been edited by BingB (edited 09-03-2024).]
Originally posted by BingB: My position is pretty simple.
The UN tried to carve out a nation from a Muslim area to create a homeland for the Jews that did not exist. I don't care about hundreds or thousands of years ago. I care about 1946.
Personally, I don't care all that much who owns it... as the Arab's view the Christian holy sites as sacred as they do their own sites (because Christianity is a large part of Islam prior to the arrival of Mohammed).
But if I had to give an opinion, I'm totally OK with the Jews having the entire land at this point. There are plenty of "Muslim-only" countries.
Anyway, it seems your view of "the victor gets the spoils" ... because you are OK with the Arab's having the land post Israelite ownership. Well guess what... the new victors get the spoils I guess.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Anyway, it seems your view of "the victor gets the spoils" ... because you are OK with the Arab's having the land post Israelite ownership. Well guess what... the new victors get the spoils I guess.
I do not argue that Isreal won the spoils. They just don't know what to do with them.
The issue I have is so many people trying to place the Zionist on the moral high ground. They took the land but they were not justified in any way. Too many people try to argue that they had some superior claim to the land.
Originally posted by BingB: Perhaps most significant is the mythical construction that the ‘Arabs’, who in 1948 owned 90 per cent of the land and constituted 67 per cent of the population—even after decades of settlement from Jewish emigration from Europe—voluntarily just up and left Palestine because their leaders told them to.
Originally posted by BingB: I do not argue that Isreal won the spoils. They just don't know what to do with them.
Do with what ? They are doing a good job. Or, did you mean the Palestinians ?
Israel has always been sympathetic to those proclaimed Palestinians. Even allowing them to cross the border to work.
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Originally posted by BingB: The issue I have is so many people trying to place the Zionist on the moral high ground. They took the land but they were not justified in any way. Too many people try to argue that they had some superior claim to the land.
The proof is in the fact that you can't post any source to dispute it.
List the name of the source that tells you that what I am saying is wrong. There has to be SOMETHING. Surely you are not just refusing to accept reality without anything to back it up. I realize that you have been brainwashed by right-wing media , but you should at least be able to tell me the source that did the brainwashing.
we could make the land theft better by giving free college medical care loans and other benefits to the native's who survived and allow all other natives from north central and south the RIGHT TO ENTER WHAT WAS THEIR LAND in the USA
Hamas is neither a nation nor an ethnic group. Hamas is a murderous cult.
Hamas plan is to wipe out Israel and all Jews. It is Hamas who are committing genocide.
Hamas must be eliminated.
I support Netanyahu. You support genocide.
you BELIEVE LYING RWNJ'S
BEBE SAID ONE THING DOES ANOTHER NO CARE WHO OR WHAT HE BOMBS HOSPITALS SCHOOLS POWERSTATIONS WATER AND SEWER BEBE IS MAKING GAZA UNLIVABLE AS A PLANNED GENOCIDE HE HAS KILLED MORE KIDS THEN FIGHTERS MORE WOMEN ALSO
HE IS TARGETING THE INFO-STRUCTURE TO INSURE THEY CAN'T LIVE THERE
BEBE SAID ONE THING DOES ANOTHER NO CARE WHO OR WHAT HE BOMBS HOSPITALS SCHOOLS POWERSTATIONS WATER AND SEWER BEBE IS MAKING GAZA UNLIVABLE AS A PLANNED GENOCIDE HE HAS KILLED MORE KIDS THEN FIGHTERS MORE WOMEN ALSO
HE IS TARGETING THE INFO-STRUCTURE TO INSURE THEY CAN'T LIVE THERE
BTW GAZA WAS NEVER EVER PART OF ANY JEWISH LANDS
More hatred from the most prejudiced and illiterate being to ever grace this Forum.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: That's not at all what it says. It says that they were there first, and then went over the back and forth "conquest" of the land as it changed hands from pagans, to the Israelites, to the Arabs, to the Christians, to the Arabs again, to the Jews, then to the Arabs, etc. The total time the land has been occupied, the Jews have collectively been there the longest, then the Christians, and then the Arabs.
I liked a lot about the take from that article you posted -especially the deference to some archeological evidence for Israel rising out of/being part of Canaan- but he still takes some non-consensus stances to make his point. His certainty of David and Solomon's kingdom's extents and the grandeur of Solomon's Temple are not based on archeological evidence or consensus. His insistence on a continuous Jewish presence is also not backed up by historical or archeological evidence. The consensus there is that Jewish presence was much more intermittent, and was part of an extremely complex system of groups that included Canaanites, Romans, and Arabs (and their cultural ancestors). You could diverge just as far from consensus to reverse his argument.
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You can't have it both ways Bing. If you're all about the colonizers not having claim to the land, well... the colonizers are the Arabs as they didn't even exist until 700 AD. If you're saying the Arabs have the right to be there, then you're advocating for "he who has the power wins," and in that case... it's the Jews right now. So what the hell are you even arguing? There is no basis for your argument...
Referring to Jews as colonizers in any part of that region is rooted (at least somewhat) in ignorance. Whatever is true about the permanency of their presence there, it's existence is undeniable. There is, however, significant issues in trying to paint this as simply as "Jews were there first." Huge portions of the existing Semitic population were Arabized. That doesn't wipe out or reset their historical or cultural claim to their homeland. The very reason simple solutions will not work for this problem is that it is not a simple problem.
BEBE SAID ONE THING DOES ANOTHER NO CARE WHO OR WHAT HE BOMBS HOSPITALS SCHOOLS POWERSTATIONS WATER AND SEWER BEBE IS MAKING GAZA UNLIVABLE AS A PLANNED GENOCIDE HE HAS KILLED MORE KIDS THEN FIGHTERS MORE WOMEN ALSO
HE IS TARGETING THE INFO-STRUCTURE TO INSURE THEY CAN'T LIVE THERE
BTW GAZA WAS NEVER EVER PART OF ANY JEWISH LANDS
Your entire defense against anything you don't like is always, "Everybody is lying to me."
Have you ever considered that maybe you are just paranoid?
"Nah, its just that the whole world really is out to get me."
Here is something to consider: Nobody knows who you are and nobody cares what you think.
Have fun, just keep it to yourself.
(One of my favorite songs from this long tome Phoenix resident.)
[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 09-05-2024).]
Originally posted by BingB: Yes. It is 100% accurate.
The proof is in the fact that you can't post any source to dispute it.
List the name of the source that tells you that what I am saying is wrong. There has to be SOMETHING. Surely you are not just refusing to accept reality without anything to back it up. I realize that you have been brainwashed by right-wing media , but you should at least be able to tell me the source that did the brainwashing.
One thing is sure. You have not been brainwashed. You would first need a brain. I am not going to do your thinking for you, and life is short. I am not going to teach you how to think. You should use your remaining time before Global Warming takes your life to learn how to think.
You have heard the phrase African Americans, no ? Are they Africans ? No. In what corner of your brain do you consider Jews not Arab ?
The proof is out their if you were smart enough to use the correct search terms.
