Originally posted by Doug85GT: This forced the campaign to cancel the rally. By contrast, Harris held a rally in Wisconsin just the week before.
Was Harris' rally at the same time as the UN General Assembly?
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The Secret Service said it was low on personnel because of the United Nations General Assembly in New York, where they have to provide security for foreign leaders during their time in the US.
Originally posted by NewDustin: Was Harris' rally at the same time as the UN General Assembly?
What does that have to do with the price of tea in China ?
I did hear that Trump had to change venues for a Georgia rally, from outside to an arena. Because of the UN General Assembly. What does that have to do with the price of tea in China ?
Is Sham a la getting Secret Service protection in Arizonia today ?
Originally posted by Doug85GT: Has this every happened before? I don't recall the Secret Service ever being unprepared to provide protection during an election.
So I have a question. It's known that every former president from a certain time period has secret service assigned to them for the rest of their lives. What happens when they want to go out and no one is available? Or better yet, if they have their own personal secret service assigned 24/7, couldn't they "borrow" them for the Trump rally?
[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 09-27-2024).]
Originally posted by ray b: the SS is in charge of protection of all heads of state at the UN or anywhere in the USA
Thanks rayb. Why is the SS in charge of protection of all heads of State at the UN or anywhere in the USA ? There are 193 sovereign State members. Plus their delegates/staff. Do we get paid for their protection ? What do those SS personnel do after a UN General Assembly ? Ensuring the protection of all the heads of State at the UN would take quite an army.
No one is ray ray. Where do they get their conscripts ? Do they even have a military base ?
THE ARE MEMBER NATIONS TROOPS
depends on the region and who volunteers when there is no standing UN army are you in fear of google again
''The UN has no standing army or police force of its own, and Member States are asked to contribute military and police personnel required for each operation. Peacekeepers wear their countries’ uniform and are identified as UN peacekeepers only by a UN blue helmet or beret and a badge. Civilian staff of peace operations are international civil servants, recruited and deployed by the UN Secretariat.
Information about UN Peacekeeping Missions, including the breakdown of the troop-contributing countries, is available through the UN Peacekeeping website.''
So I have a question. It's known that every former president from a certain time period has secret service assigned to them for the rest of their lives. What happens when they want to go out and no one is available? Or better yet, if they have their own personal secret service assigned 24/7, couldn't they "borrow" them for the Trump rally?
One of the many reasons that the USSS has gone to crap in recent years might be attributed to it being moved from the U.S. Department of the Treasury to being under the Department of Homeland Shenanigans Security.
UN General Assembly happens every year in September.
Presidential Election happens every four years.
Secret Service is shocked and unprepared when they both happened at the same time.
Has this ever happened before? I don't recall the Secret Service ever being unprepared to provide protection during an election.
For some perspective: Trump has held 37 rallies this cycle so far. Harris and Biden have held a combined 13 rallies so far. Just like election cycles prior, Trump places a disproportionate strain on the Secret Services for campaign security.
Complaining he isn't be treated fairly when they only provide security for 3x as many rallies for his campaign doesn't seem to make sense.
[This message has been edited by NewDustin (edited 10-03-2024).]
Are you suggesting that the government should restrict campaign activities?
No. They're free to hold whatever rallies they like. I'm saying their access to government-funded services during the campaign is not unlimited, and they already use more government handout security than any other campaign.
[This message has been edited by NewDustin (edited 10-03-2024).]
Sounds like you don't think that they have the freedom to campaign as they feel they need to.
That doesn't bear any resemblance to anything I said. What kind of game is this where you just put bizarre words in my mouth? Well two can play that: Sounds like you think trees are people and Saturn isn't a planet.
For some perspective: Trump has held 37 rallies this cycle so far. Harris and Biden have held a combined 13 rallies so far. Just like election cycles prior, Trump places a disproportionate strain on the Secret Services for campaign security.
Complaining he isn't be treated fairly when they only provide security for 3x as many rallies for his campaign doesn't seem to make sense.
Some how Trump did not have to cancel a rally before due to lack of security. I don't recall any presidential candidate having to cancel a rally due to lack of Secret Service protection before. How would have have played out if Bush's Secret Service made Obama cancel a rally in a swing state?
BTW, the UN still had their General Assembly meetings in 2016 and 2020 too. And in 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004, 2008, 2012. They are on the 79th General Assembly and the first one was in 1946, so you can do the math.
No. They're free to hold whatever rallies they like. I'm saying their access to government-funded services during the campaign is not unlimited, and they already use more government handout security than any other campaign.
I don't think my comment is out of line with what you posted. I do think that your response is approaching the absurd.
When, in our lifetimes, has the Secret Service not had the necessary resources to do whatever they were tasked with?
What are the reasons they are currently understaffed?
What are the reasons that their site assessment and security planning skills are coming up short?
Some how Trump did not have to cancel a rally before due to lack of security. I don't recall any presidential candidate having to cancel a rally due to lack of Secret Service protection before. How would have have played out if Bush's Secret Service made Obama cancel a rally in a swing state?
BTW, the UN still had their General Assembly meetings in 2016 and 2020 too. And in 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004, 2008, 2012. They are on the 79th General Assembly and the first one was in 1946, so you can do the math.
You missed the one piece of information tying those things together: Candidates (other that Trump) don't hold rallies during the UN General Assembly because they know the Secret Service is taxed. I'm not going to challenge you to find another candidate who has tried to do so, because you won't. Trump did something similar in 2019 when he was President (except at small-scale, indoor venues), and it was a logistical nightmare; AND they weren't dealing with repeated assassination attempts at the time.
Trump already uses public funding for secret service security more than any other candidate in history. Setting aside you all's apparent newfound support for public money in elections, Trump is not being treated unfairly if he isn't allowed to hold even more rallies than other candidates on days they wouldn't get protection either.
Is your expectation that he be given unlimited public resources other candidates are not entitled to?
[This message has been edited by NewDustin (edited 10-04-2024).]
Originally posted by olejoedad: When, in our lifetimes, has the Secret Service not had the necessary resources to do whatever they were tasked with?
Literally every single UN General Assembly. Please find another candidate that has ever, at any point in all of US history, gotten free security from the Secret Service for an outdoor rally at the same time as the UN General Assembly, or admit that you all are stretching the very limits of rationality in order to pretend you are being victimized in some way.
Yeah, there are a lot of Liberals who have shut their brains off from information.
you mistake lie rejection with valid info the rump sect spews lying without any filters but very little real data
many in the rump cult can't tell any difference so they repeat the lies as facts from the rump and get upset when the truth is revealed so they hate the ones who site facts they do not like
You missed the one piece of information tying those things together: Candidates (other that Trump) don't hold rallies during the UN General Assembly because they know the Secret Service is taxed. I'm not going to challenge you to find another candidate who has tried to do so, because you won't. Trump did something similar in 2019 when he was President (except at small-scale, indoor venues), and it was a logistical nightmare; AND they weren't dealing with repeated assassination attempts at the time.
Trump already uses public funding for secret service security more than any other candidate in history. Setting aside you all's apparent newfound support for public money in elections, Trump is not being treated unfairly if he isn't allowed to hold even more rallies than other candidates on days they wouldn't get protection either.
Is your expectation that he be given unlimited public resources other candidates are not entitled to?
So you can't dispute the fact that Trump held even more rallies in two previous election, including during UNGA, without any of them being cancelled by the Secret Service.
No, I do not accept you trying to move the goal post. You can argue your strawman all you want. I won't indulging you.
Originally posted by NewDustin: You missed the one piece of information tying those things together: Candidates (other that Trump) don't hold rallies during the UN General Assembly because they know the Secret Service is taxed.
Of course you can prove that. Do candidates have to ask permission to hold a rally ? Does the SS tell their protected assignment's that they need to ask for permission for protection ?
We know, you are not an America first person. The UN takes a back seat in my opinion. Let's put it in Moscow. I mean Russia Russia Russia.
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Originally posted by NewDustin: Trump already uses public funding for secret service security more than any other candidate in history. Setting aside you all's apparent newfound support for public money in elections, Trump is not being treated unfairly if he isn't allowed to hold even more rallies than other candidates on days they wouldn't get protection either.
Tell me again ... why is he not allowed to hold more rallies than any other candidate ? What is 'the Donald' SS tab, dollar wise, compared to Obama's ?
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Originally posted by NewDustin: Is your expectation that he be given unlimited public resources other candidates are not entitled to?
Please, please, give us a break. Air Force 1, Air Force 2, flying around gathering voter support and funds.
Originally posted by Doug85GT: So you can't dispute the fact that Trump held even more rallies in two previous election, including during UNGA, without any of them being cancelled by the Secret Service.
No, I do not accept you trying to move the goal post. You can argue your strawman all you want. I won't indulging you.
I'm not moving the goalpost, I can link to what I said earlier or you can you check up higher in the thread. What I've said has been the same: Donald Trump isn't being mistreated because he wasn't allowed to have a rally when no one else was allowed to have one either. He gets to have more rallies than any other candidate, and isn't being shorted on the ability to host them. Nobody is cheating by only letting him hold 3-10x more rallies than anyone else.
I think you misunderstand strawman if you think I've engaged in it here; it's when you mischaracterize someone else's argument. Otherwise, whose argument have I misrepresented? I'll acknowledge it immediately if you point it out.
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Originally posted by cliffw: Of course you can prove that. Do candidates have to ask permission to hold a rally ? Does the SS tell their protected assignment's that they need to ask for permission for protection ?
Yes to the first, no(?) the second. I'm pretty sure federal law tells Presidential candidates they must accept secret service protection, but I'm not positive. I found rallies that both Trump and Hillary held during the 2016 cycle though, so you should have looked into that and caught what I missed on my first pass looking into it. I'm not sure it matters, though, because I also found the secret service has been chirping for some time that they are 'at a breaking point.' Given the multiple assassination attempts, and the fact that their shortages have nothing at all to do with money; they can't just put more people they don't have and can't find on the job, and they know they're risking an assassination.
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Originally posted by cliffw: We know, you are not an America first person. The UN takes a back seat in my opinion. Let's put it in Moscow. I mean Russia Russia Russia.
This may surprise you, but I have absolutely nothing to do with where the Secret Service staffs. I also haven't given an opinion on whether or not I approve of the way they are used, or how that agency is handled in general. If you're interested in the latter, I think I agree...that "Moscow Russia Russia Russia" bit went over my head...but it's hard to justify staffing some of the events they are without addressing their shortages. I think rallies should probably be low on the "**** we need to protect" list too, though, and that forcing their protection on candidates is part of the issue with the agency.
But for the "America First" bit, you're correct. Populism always ends up too close to pandering and condescension for my taste. I'm generally a harder sell than "hey dummy, tired of those elites gettin' one over on ya?"
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by cliffw: Tell me again ... why is he not allowed to hold more rallies than any other candidate ? What is 'the Donald' SS tab, dollar wise, compared to Obama's ?
I didn't say that. I said when Trump hits the limitations of SS staffing it isn't because of some grand conspiracy to cheat him out of a single rally. Do you know why the SS is short staffed? Do you think this is a matter of not enough money?
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by cliffw: Please, please, give us a break. Air Force 1, Air Force 2, flying around gathering voter support and funds.
Originally posted by NewDustin: I'm not moving the goalpost, I can link to what I said earlier or you can you check up higher in the thread. What I've said has been the same: Donald Trump isn't being mistreated because he wasn't allowed to have a rally when no one else was allowed to have one either. He gets to have more rallies than any other candidate, and isn't being shorted on the ability to host them. Nobody is cheating by only letting him hold 3-10x more rallies than anyone else.
I think you misunderstand strawman if you think I've engaged in it here; it's when you mischaracterize someone else's argument. Otherwise, whose argument have I misrepresented? I'll acknowledge it immediately if you point it out.
Then show where anyone else but you said that Trump is entitled to unlimited public resources.
You moved the goal post by demanding proof of anyone else but Trump. You completely ignore the last two election cycles where Trump held rallies during UNGA disproving your assertion. "Give me any proof that does not disprove me."
[This message has been edited by Doug85GT (edited 10-06-2024).]
Then show where anyone else but you said that Trump is entitled to unlimited public resources.
You moved the goal post by demanding proof of anyone else but Trump. You completely ignore the last two election cycles where Trump held rallies during UNGA disproving your assertion. "Give me any proof that does not disprove me."
I think you're mistaken...I asked if the assertion was that Trump was entitled to unlimited public resources that other candidates were not entitled to. I was asking to clarify what limitations they thought should exist.
For the second part, you are citing evidence I already provided and are missing half of it that supports your point. I'd suggest you go back and read this:
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Originally posted by Me, just up above there: I found rallies that both Trump and Hillary held during the 2016 cycle though, so you should have looked into that and caught what I missed on my first pass looking into it. I'm not sure it matters, though, because I also found the secret service has been chirping for some time that they are 'at a breaking point.' Given the multiple assassination attempts, and the fact that their shortages have nothing at all to do with money; they can't just put more people they don't have and can't find on the job, and they know they're risking an assassination.
