Biden gives life in prison to 37 of 40 federal death row inmates before Trump can resume executions.These dirt bags have been convicted of some of the worst crimes and sentenced to death and it should stand. Joe is a despicable waste of flesh.
These sentences where not commuted on the merit of innocence. We have an an appeals process for that. It is not like the evidence was with held to preserve a conviction for some prosecutors winn/loss record.
[This message has been edited by jdv (edited 12-23-2024).]
I always thought the point of the pardoning process was to pardon someone you personally felt was given an excessive sentencing, or someone whom you feel had already done their time despite a jury's decisions many years ago for a longer sentence.
Is this normal for a president to just unilaterally start pardoning people? Like... why has Biden pardoned now close to 2,000 people?
Death sentences are different. Almost all are based on convictions after jury trial, and even the handful of capital defendants who plead guilty are then subject to trial-like-sentencing hearings, usually before juries. All death sentences are reviewed on appeal; almost all are reviewed repeatedly. With few exceptions, capital defendants have lawyers as long as they remain on death row. Everyone, from the first officer on the scene of a potentially capital crime to the Chief Justice of the United States, takes capital cases more seriously than other criminal prosecutions—and knows that everybody else will do so as well. And everyone from defense lawyers to innocence projects to governors and state and federal judges is likely to be particularly careful to avoid the execution of innocent defendants.
This extraordinary difference in resources and attention generates two related effects. (i) Advocates for a defendant are much more likely to pursue any plausible post-conviction claim of innocence if the defendant is under sentence of death. (ii) Courts (and other government actors) are much more likely to consider and grant such a claim if the defendant is at risk for execution. As a result, false convictions are far more likely to be detected among those cases that end in death sentences than in any other category of criminal convictions.
Knowing that this occurs in virtually every case where a death sentence is imposed, the execution of such convicted murderers is justified. Errors are always possible but, very unlikely with so many reviews and second, third and more looks. One would wonder if Biden would be so forgiving if one of his family were the victim of a murder. I have sincere doubts. The victim's families of such crimes are justified in their anger.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 12-24-2024).]
Without having read all of the previous back and forth... There's a saying, credited to the "southern" United States, but I suspect that the sentiment is much more widespread than that.
"Some folks just need killin'." Sad but true.
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 12-24-2024).]
Without having read all of the previous back and forth... There's a saying, credited to the "southern" United States, but I suspect that the sentiment is much more widespread than that.
"Some folks just need killin'." Sad but true.
Depends on the population asked but, in my own personal experience, that is a widely spread truism, it continues to grow in popularity as crime and murders increase. As I said previously, Biden or his puppet master's might feel differently if he or they had lost someone to such a crime. While not calling for justice like the "Old West", reasons for self-protection are growing. Decisions such as the one Biden just made is another good reason to be prepared since our "elected" leadership won't follow through. ------------------ Rams Learning most of life's lessons the hard way. . You are only young once but, you can be immature indefinitely.
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 12-24-2024).]
I absolutely agree. With some individuals, there should be a firing range right behind the courthouse for quick termination.
However, the following comment goes completely overboard.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by olejoedad:
Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out.
Would that not include who the "All" are? My assumption is that olejoedad was talking about those on death row. In that case, I agree with you on that firing range once those appeals have been heard and rejected. Though, I really hate the thought of wasting ammunition, a rope can be used multiple times.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 12-24-2024).]
Not at all. Convictions are based on different types of "evidence". For example, I have a real problem with convictions based on the testimony of informants (often criminals themselves) who've been offered plea deals to "cooperate". On the other hand, individuals who've mowed down countless innocent victims using a firearm or a vehicle, and been caught in the act, should have no mercy shown to them.
My question is why did Biden wait till the last month of his Presidency to suffer from an attack of moral conviction ?
Heh, conviction.
Most likely, the same reason he waited to Pardon his son. Hoping to be re-elected. But I'm not convinced he's even aware of what is getting his signature applied to the different bills. Christmas Eve, supposedly he signed 50 different bills. I wonder if it's possible to wear out a signature machine and who is actually operating it?
This is one of the most dangerous times for this country in my life. A President who can't function and a VP who isn't capable. With leadership like this, Cuba could attack and take over before our leadership reacted. January 20th can't come fast enough.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 12-25-2024).]
Would that not include who the "All" are? My assumption is that olejoedad was talking about those on death row. In that case, I agree with you on that firing range once those appeals have been heard and rejected. Though, I really hate the thought of wasting ammunition, a rope can be used multiple times.
Rams
You assumed correctly.
Your comprehension skills well tuned, unlike some that read into comments things unsaid.
Most likely, the same reason he waited to Pardon his son. Hoping to be re-elected.
I agree, this is why most Presidents save them for the end of their Presidency. Trump issued 143 pardons in his final days for the same reason. Bush was actually low on the count with only a handful. Clinton pardoned 140 folks in his final days, and H.W. pardoned a ton too, and saved some real controversial zingers for the end.
quote
Originally posted by blackrams:
But I'm not convinced he's even aware of what is getting his signature applied to the different bills. Christmas Eve, supposedly he signed 50 different bills. I wonder if it's possible to wear out a signature machine and who is actually operating it?
This is one of the most dangerous times for this country in my life. A President who can't function and a VP who isn't capable. With leadership like this, Cuba could attack and take over before our leadership reacted. January 20th can't come fast enough.
Rams
What an odd criticism. The output of the final legislative sessions of Biden's presidency is notable for the low number of bills being signed: Biden has signed 50. In the last few months of his Presidency Trump signed 353. Obama signed 206. Bush signed 138.
To correct any misperceptions, the purpose of the pardon is -and always has been- to allow for an unfettered executive show of mercy. That was the purpose of the 'royal prerogative of mercy' that the founders copied, and is enshrined in Hamilton's expanding on it Federalist No. 74, where he argued that it was a vessel for 'unfettered' mercy. Not only does a required belief in too-harsh-a-punishment not exist, the founders (and the British before them) were expressly interested in the power being solely at the moral determining of the executive. Those ideas were so widely and universally accepted by the founders that there is very little debate on whether they should be included and why, just on the particulars of how and what absolute edge cases might exist. They were worried about Treason, but still shot down 2 motions to limit pardon power for traitors, and purposefully left all language on pardons broad and unfettered.
Edit to add the following Here are the top clemency-granters in US history: Franklin D. Roosevelt – 3,687 Woodrow Wilson – 2,480 Harry S. Truman – 2,044 Andrew Johnson – 2,200 Barack Obama – 1,927 Abraham Lincoln – 1,500 George Washington – 1,464 Dwight D. Eisenhower – 1,100 Thomas Jefferson – 1,100
Biden would be sitting at the number 6 spot. He is also notable in that the vast majority of his presidential clemency actions have been commutations (they still serve life in prison), and not pardons (where they'd get out); he's pardoned far fewer people than most Presidents, including Trump.
[This message has been edited by NewDustin (edited 12-27-2024).]
What an odd criticism. The output of the final legislative sessions of Biden's presidency is notable for the low number of bills being signed: Biden has signed 50. In the last few months of his Presidency Trump signed 353. Obama signed 206. Bush signed 138.
My concern (although not stated as well as it could be above) is that I have absolutely no confidence that Biden has a clue as to what he or the signature machine is signing, his lack of cognitive abilities is obvious to all but, some won't admit it. That leaves me to believe that his handlers are the ones in charge of the Oval Office.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 12-31-2024).]
My concern (although not be stated as well as it could be above) is that I have absolutely no confidence Biden has a clue as to what he or the signature machine is signing, his lack of cognitive abilities is obvious to all but, some won't admit it. That leaves me to believe that his handlers are the ones in charge of the Oval Office.
Rams
I agree, though it isn't unprecedented and I don't find it all that worrying. I don't think Reagan was fit for office by the end of his Presidency (through no fault of his own, Alzheimers sucks). Woodrow Wilson had a stroke that demolished his decision-making ability. In a perfect world they'd probably leave office but that just doesn't happen. I don't think a passive/docile President is a severe issue in the short term.
Originally posted by NewDustin: To correct any misperceptions, the purpose of the pardon is -and always has been- to allow for an unfettered executive show of mercy.
Not to worry. We have pardoned you, .
We are hoping to get one too.
[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 12-27-2024).]
I agree, though it isn't unprecedented and I don't find it all that worrying. I don't think Reagan was fit for office by the end of his Presidency (through no fault of his own, Alzheimers sucks). Woodrow Wilson had a stroke that demolished his decision-making ability. In a perfect world they'd probably leave office but that just doesn't happen. I don't think a passive/docile President is a severe issue in the short term.
The problem with that passive/docile President is who is controlling the signature machine and actually in charge.
The problem with that passive/docile President is who is controlling the signature machine and actually in charge.
Rams
Honestly, I feel like they're in charge even when the President isn't docile. One of the things that I actually do find refreshing about Trump is that is not the case with him. Granted, I don't think he acts autonomously, but I don't think he acts at the strict behest of his handlers like Bush/Obama/Biden either.
Originally posted by NewDustin: That remains to be seen! I don't have a ratings bar yet, so we don't know yet if I'm worthy of mercy for my horrible political opinions
You have no worries. Mostly rude confrontational members get a negative.
I rated you 'positive'. Just so you know, when you rating bar shows up, I can make it disappear by un-rating you, , till you get more than 50.
Pardon me......But I definitely disagree with what Biden did....Pardons should only be granted in extreme cases of obvious "Over-punishment" and you should NEVER pardon a close friends or family-member....
Pardon me......But I definitely disagree with what Biden did....Pardons should only be granted in extreme cases of obvious "Over-punishment" and you should NEVER pardon a close friends or family-member....
Agreed, Presidents, (not just Biden) all Presidents that I'm aware of have done so. The reasons always seem questionable. They didn't ask me.
Originally posted by cvxjet: But I definitely disagree with what Biden did....Pardons should only be granted in extreme cases of obvious "Over-punishment" and you should NEVER pardon a close friends or family-member....
Why do you believe they should only be used in cases of over-punishment? The founders vehementlydisagreed with that stance, btw.
I always thought the point of the pardoning process was to pardon someone you personally felt was given an excessive sentencing, or someone whom you feel had already done their time despite a jury's decisions many years ago for a longer sentence.
Is this normal for a president to just unilaterally start pardoning people? Like... why has Biden pardoned now close to 2,000 people?
Two things.
First: From my understanding, it's just staying their execution. They're not getting out of prison, just not being executed.
I can get the counter argument that some people are past redemption and should just be shot.
That stated, we -know- we've executed innocent people. This is also why we (rightfully) give numerous appeals options to those on death row and why it costs significantly more to execute than just lock them up for life. I view this aspect from government power. Giving the government the power to take its citizens lives is quintessential big government, no? I have no problem with locking these people up and throwing away the key.
Second: I simply can't take criticisms of these (pardons?) from anyone MAGA in good faith. Trump handed out pardons/commutations to his surrogates (Manafort/Gates/etc) and promised to do the same to the people charged for J6. Trump has explicitly shown he provides pardons based on loyalty to -him-. Now there's suddenly a moral conscience as to whom gets one? Sorry, MAGA had their chance to speak up, they didn't out of fealty, and now want to ridicule the same power when it doesn't go their way.
Second: I simply can't take criticisms of these (pardons?) from anyone MAGA in good faith. Trump handed out pardons/commutations to his surrogates (Manafort/Gates/etc) and promised to do the same to the people charged for J6. Trump has explicitly shown he provides pardons based on loyalty to -him-. Now there's suddenly a moral conscience as to whom gets one? Sorry, MAGA had their chance to speak up, they didn't out of fealty, and now want to ridicule the same power when it doesn't go their way.
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