In less than a month in office Trump has completely destroyed Americas international reputation (except in the eyes of Russia and its supporters). It’s clear this doesn’t bother him and the MAGAts but I doubt a majority of the GOP think this is acceptable and I’d hope a majority of Americans don’t. Are they just going to roll over, or do they just not give a Chit what he does in their name.
Answer of German Defense Minister Boris Pistorius to the speech of what he calls Christofascist vice President Vance,
‘ I am incandescent with rage right now. I feel sick to the stomach. A US Vice President stood today on the soil of where so many Americans gave their lives to defeat fascism in Europe. He delivered a disgraceful speech that spat on their graves. Not that we should expect any different, given his boss skipped visiting the graves of fallen Americans in Europe for fear of getting his hair wet. The same man who called the same fallen heroes suckers and losers.
As a Brit that loves America and the American people, I am deeply disturbed at the insults delivered by a man who once described Donald Trump as an “idiot" and said he was "reprehensible." Privately, comparing him to Adolf Hitler.
How times have changed. Vance is now part of the most authoritarian administration in American history. An administration actively seeking to deny bodily autonomy to women. An administration pursuing the same mass deportation of immigrants that Europe witnessed in 1930s Germany. Vance is a man that his own president doesn’t even see as his successor.
He came to Europe to vomit his Christo-fascist bile on leaders from the UK and across Europe, in what appears to be a retribution tour designed to assert American power.
The U.S. are to my knowledge the only NATO country to have invoked Article 5 of the NATO charter after 9/11. We, his European allies, met that call with no questions asked. We sent thousands of soldiers to the battlefields of Afghanistan and Iraq to fight a war on the false premise of Donald Rumsfeld’s ‘known unknowns’. We did this despite millions of our own citizens protesting in the streets of our cities.
Our military stood shoulder to shoulder with his military and we, like many Americans, stood to salute our fallen young men and women returning home day after day. I have tears in my eyes as I write this, thinking of them and their loved ones. Our brave men and women willingly gave their all and far too many made the ultimate sacrifice in support of an American led war.
For the record, 6000 Ukrainian solders server alongside American soldiers in Iraq. This, despite Ukraine not being a member of NATO. In 1994 upon signing the Budapest Memorandum they gave up their nuclear weapons in return for security assurances from the US and the UK. These were then reneged upon in 2014 when Russia invaded Crimea. They were told ‘An assurance is not a guarantee’.
Now, despite their friendship and their brave sacrifice on the battlefields of Ukraine, the President of the United States has decided to abandon them and hand a victory to an indicted war criminal, who illegally invaded the sovereign territory of a US ally. An ally who’s soldiers had previously lost their lives supporting America in its war on terror.
SHAME ON HIM. Shame on the man who dodged the draft and never served a day in defense of his nation. He is a coward and I would gladly call him that to his face. To all those Americans on social media currently posting vile insults to those who have always been there for America, I say, democracy is bigger than you, as you sit anonymously behind your phones posting poison.
America might have the most powerful army on the planet, but remember, that same army fled from Saigon after being handed their ass by a bunch of peasant rice farmers, armed with grenades made from discarded US coke cans. Ukraine have been to the Russian army what the Vietnamese were to you and we salute them.
You might want to throw Ukraine under the bus while stealing there mineral deposits, BUT EUROPE WILL NOT ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN. I know for sure that the UK will not abandon the Ukrainian people. Our aid to GDP contribution already exceeds that of the US as does Poland, Germany Finland and others.
The U.S. is no longer a reliable ally and if need be, we will stand with Ukraine without America.
As for your pathetic tariffs, do your worst. You will soon have no friends but thugs and autocrats, so I’m sure Wun Dum Fuc will be right at home.
Answer of German Defense Minister Boris Pistorius to the speech of what he calls Christofascist vice President Vance,
‘ I am incandescent with rage right now. I feel sick to the stomach. A US Vice President stood today on the soil of where so many Americans gave their lives to defeat fascism in Europe. He delivered a disgraceful speech that spat on their graves. Not that we should expect any different, given his boss skipped visiting the graves of fallen Americans in Europe for fear of getting his hair wet. The same man who called the same fallen heroes suckers and losers.
As a Brit that loves America and the American people, I am deeply disturbed at the insults delivered by a man who once described Donald Trump as an “idiot" and said he was "reprehensible." Privately, comparing him to Adolf Hitler.
Ray, is he the German defense minister or a Brit that loves america. Not saying he didn't respond, but your copy paste is very ambiguous.
Why is he blaming Trump for 2014, I thought Obama was president then, so he renegged on the deal.
[This message has been edited by bonaduce (edited 02-19-2025).]
No one gives a flyin turd what the Germans think or say. If they love the Ukrainians so much, they can get their asses across the borders of Poland and join in the fun. But they won't. Neither will anyone else in Europe.
We've sunk enough $$$ in that area of the world already.
Originally posted by ray b: WHY IS THE SCUM BAG ON PUTIN THE CRIMINAL'S SIDE
In less than a month in office Trump has completely destroyed Americas international reputation (except in the eyes of Russia and its supporters). It’s clear this doesn’t bother him and the MAGAts but I doubt a majority of the GOP think this is acceptable and I’d hope a majority of Americans don’t. Are they just going to roll over, or do they just not give a Chit what he does in their name.
C'mon ray b. Your shaming the whole forum.
Zelenskyy declared martial law, canceled elections, censored critical press, and became dictator of Ukraine. Would you like to let your President Trump to do that ?
As far as the EU, they are censoring free speech, leading mass morning raids seizing electronic devices to search for evidence which can be used to file charges against it's citizens.
Zelenskyy declared martial law, canceled elections, censored critical press, and became dictator of Ukraine. Would you like to let your President Trump to do that ?
As far as the EU, they are censoring free speech, leading mass morning raids seizing electronic devices to search for evidence which can be used to file charges against it's citizens.
BIZARRO
PUTIN HAS RULED RUSSIA AS A DICTATOR FOR REAL FOR FAR TOO LONG
PUTIN INVADED THE U TWICE RUMP LAND IS A STRANGE LAND
YES THEY ARE AT WAR WITH LOTS OF PUTIN'S SCUM BEHIND THE LINES
Only an insane person would believe Ukraine started the war. Trump better be talking like this as a negotiating tactic.
Could be if he is using his normal negotiating tactic of ceding all leverage and then just folding at the table. Like when he surrendered to the Taliban.
EDIT TO ADD
''I hope America is as lucky as the upside down Delta jet. Everyone survives but the right wing explodes.''
[This message has been edited by ray b (edited 02-20-2025).]
Ukraine Doesn't have dirt on Trump like they had on Biden so the Money will dry up. We will see then how they want to end the war. War is no fun when it is not profitable.
The US money for Ukraine NEEDS to dry up. It's time for Europe to stand on it's own legs , start walking East and north and kick Russia out of Ukraine if that's what the squabbling is about.
We saved Europe twice. Time for them to save themselves and their neighbor now but too many think they can still wallow in the pig pen of neutrality without getting their feet and shoes muddy because they want Uncle Sugar to do it for them. There are 27 countries in the EU. Current estimates say the combined GDP of the EU is right at 20 TRILLION. They can afford to go it alone, IF, they can get their heads out of their behinds and straighten up their collective backbone.
The US money for Ukraine NEEDS to dry up. It's time for Europe to stand on it's own legs , start walking East and north and kick Russia out of Ukraine if that's what the squabbling is about.
We saved Europe twice. Time for them to save themselves and their neighbor now but too many think they can still wallow in the pig pen of neutrality without getting their feet and shoes muddy because they want Uncle Sugar to do it for them. There are 27 countries in the EU. Current estimates say the combined GDP of the EU is right at 20 TRILLION. They can afford to go it alone, IF, they can get their heads out of their behinds and straighten up their collective backbone.
Ray... the United States has provided over 270 billion dollars to Ukraine.
This is a fight that Europe should have taken, and should have managed. I'm fully supportive of Ukraine getting back their territory, and I am no fan of Russia. I'm not thrilled with the way it SEEMS like this is doing, but I'm hoping that this encourages Europe to grow a pair of balls and be willing to take on the bulk of this fight.
I have to mention... since this is just about politics with you... that this fight never would have happened if Trump had been president. Last poll I saw, 70% of America believed it wouldn't have happened if Trump was still president. In March of 2021, Putin began amassing soldiers on the border. Zelensky came to Biden and asked for help... Biden said he would only help if Putin invaded (this was actually a conversation). By August, there were over 90k troops on the border, and they invaded Ukraine... only at that point did Biden start to do something. Like with everything, too little, too late.
The really nagging question I have though... respectfully, is... why do the Democrats care? When Crimea was taken, and Eastern Ukraine was taken, the Democrats were totally silent. They didn't care. I'm going to assume they didn't care because it was just like the wars going on in Africa... no one knows, and they've not been told to care.
What I do think however, as to the reason why the Ukraine war seems to be the most important thing in the entire world to Democrats, is because they believe that Putin helped Trump win in 2016... and for some odd reason, they view supporting Ukraine as somehow being defiant to Trump... which is insanely weird, odd, and TDS-ridden.
I'll say this... over 200k people are now dead. This is a war that probably could have been prevented if we had European leaders with balls, and a president who didn't have dimentia or his cabinet which were liberal-arts San Francisco, Chicago, and NY liberals. But it is what it is... and at this point, I'd really like the killing to stop. Every one of those people who are now dead, had families, mothers, fathers... probably kids. At this point, this isn't about Zelensky maintaining power or looking cool (note: he halted presidential elections 2 years ago), this is about stopping needless death.
The only positive I can see... which is pathetic at best, is that Florida has been flooded with really attracctive Ukrainian females fleeing war. It means nothing to me because I'm married, but only too happy for my fellow American men who are not.
The Democrats are backing it so they can continue to line their pockets. When the money stops and the accounting begins, I hope the crooks go to prison.
There is no difference between Ukraine and Russia Zelensky is just the other side of the coin from Putin Same ****ing mentality. When he is still in power 10 years from now will we still be filling up his retirement pool?
There is no difference between Ukraine and Russia Zelensky is just the other side of the coin from Putin Same ****ing mentality. When he is still in power 10 years from now will we still be filling up his retirement pool?
NO THE U HAS NO NUKES they had them we made a deal but WE did not follow thru when they gave up the nukes
putin has nukes and has said he will use them IF ...
Z did not get elected by a fake bombing stunt that is exactly how putin got in power many many years ago 25 years ago
Z has not been in office long at all only a few years
z has not killed political rivals putin does kill political rivals
putin is a criminal killer mob leader AND A WAR CRIMINAL Z is not ether a criminal or a mob leader or a war criminal
putin invades other countrys starting wars the U has started no wars
putin is a dictator Z is not
if both look the same a you are in a cult or you are a russian troll
maybe both
[This message has been edited by ray b (edited 02-20-2025).]
Ray... the United States has provided over 270 billion dollars to Ukraine.
This is a fight that Europe should have taken, and should have managed. I'm fully supportive of Ukraine getting back their territory, and I am no fan of Russia. I'm not thrilled with the way it SEEMS like this is doing, but I'm hoping that this encourages Europe to grow a pair of balls and be willing to take on the bulk of this fight.
While I do agree that this war should be halted, if NATO members get involved, it would seem to me that we would also be drug into it by the NATO charter. Unless we decide to leave NATO I don't see any way we could avoid it. I can see this as not ending well for all concerned.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 02-20-2025).]
What I do think however, as to the reason why the Ukraine war seems to be the most important thing in the entire world to Democrats, is because they believe that Putin helped Trump win in 2016... and for some odd reason, they view supporting Ukraine as somehow being defiant to Trump... which is insanely weird, odd, and TDS-ridden.
I'll say this... over 200k people are now dead. This is a war that probably could have been prevented if we had European leaders with balls, and a president who didn't have dimentia or his cabinet which were liberal-arts San Francisco, Chicago, and NY liberals. But it is what it is... and at this point, I'd really like the killing to stop. Every one of those people who are now dead, had families, mothers, fathers... probably kids. At this point, this isn't about Zelensky maintaining power or looking cool (note: he halted presidential elections 2 years ago), this is about stopping needless death.
Also at this late date, it's about the NECESSITY of stopping the hemorrhaging of U$Ds as well as depleting so much our own artillery and shells to keep Ukraine supplied. Europe wanted, maybe even thought they needed this war. Otherwise, they (Britain and Europe) would have stopped it in it's tracks YEARS ago. They learned NOTHING from Neville Chamberlain.
While I do agree that this war should be halted, if NATO members get involved, it would seem to me that we would also be drug into it by the NATO charter. Unless we decide to leave NATO I don't see any way we could avoid it. I can see this as not ending well for all concerned.
Rams
In this case, because Ukraine is not part of NATO, European countries going into Ukraine to support them in the war effort would be considered a "non-Article 5" war (like Afghanistan and Iraq), and thus would not require all the countries to engage.
In this case, because Ukraine is not part of NATO, European countries going into Ukraine to support them in the war effort would be considered a "non-Article 5" war (like Afghanistan and Iraq), and thus would not require all the countries to engage.
Oh, I agree but, does anyone actually believe that Russia would restrict it's offensive to simply Ukraine if NATO members joined the fray? Putin wants all of his old (previous) friends and their ground back.
Oh, I agree but, does anyone actually believe that Russia would restrict it's offensive to simply Ukraine if NATO members joined the fray? Putin wants all of his old (previous) friends and their ground back.
Rams
That's a good point. Personally, I think Russia is completely tapped out, save for the fact that they have nukes. I think the only way Putin would use nukes is if it looked like he would be overthrown (and of course, would be killed). At this point, I actually think the Polish army could probably overrun Russia... head straight for Moscow and take over Russia. I think Putin knows this, so attacking a NATO country would certainly lead to that, and I think he knows there's absolutely no way for him to win.
Russia of course is absolutely massive... I mean, hands down, the largest country in the entire world. But despite it's physical size, it has less than half the population of the United States (their population is ~143 million). So even if they instituted conscription, there just wouldn't be enough people to leverage a real war against Europe, who has over 750 million people.
That's funny...always wondered what that munching sound was in my own ears!
I always attributed that noise to be tinnitus, but a recent MRI confirmed there is a small organ between my ears. They just couldn't identify what it was.
Also at this late date, it's about the NECESSITY of stopping the hemorrhaging of U$Ds as well as depleting so much our own artillery and shells to keep Ukraine supplied. Europe wanted, maybe even thought they needed this war. Otherwise, they (Britain and Europe) would have stopped it in it's tracks YEARS ago. They learned NOTHING from Neville Chamberlain.
Just so we are absolutely clear on THE FACTS. The U.S. has NOT supplied $300 billion to Ukraine. The number is $179 billion. 70% of that ($125.3 billion) has been spent in the U.S. industrial military complex.
It has provided jobs and profits to AMERICAN companies
Just so we are absolutely clear on THE FACTS. The U.S. has NOT supplied $300 billion to Ukraine. The number is $179 billion. 70% of that ($125.3 billion) has been spent in the U.S. industrial military complex.
It has provided jobs and profits to AMERICAN companies
WHY DO YOU WANT TO SHELL MEXICO ?
The whole first part, before the yelling, was lifted from someone else.
We? No. Europe. It's on them, Ukraine and Russia. Period.
But they were told at the time that the United States and Western powers — so certainly at least the United States and Great Britain — take their political commitments really seriously. This is a document signed at the highest level by the heads of state. So the implication was Ukraine would not be left to stand alone and face a threat should it come under one.
certain sense of complacency on the Ukrainian part after signing this agreement to say, "Look, we have these guarantees that were signed," because incidentally, into Ukrainian and Russian, this was translated as a guarantee, not as an assurance. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crl3ndxglwxo
Thirty years ago, on 5 December 1994, at a ceremony in Budapest, Ukraine joined Belarus and Kazakhstan in giving up their nuclear arsenals in return for security guarantees from the United States, the UK, France, China and Russia.
Ray, think for a second what you posted above. What you copied said:
"70% of that ($125.3 billion) has been spent in the U.S. industrial military complex."
Are you telling me that this was free? That no one paid for it?
This was still $125 billion of taxpayer money that went to Ukraine, even if it was in the form of weaponry.
You guys do know how money laundering works right? You can't out right send money to people, even morons would figure that out. You have to have something to trade, set a high value on it then collect the "tax" and "service fees" Kind of like someone's art projects Did weapons make it to the Ukraine? Sure they did, but what did it cost us and who got rich.
Originally posted by ray b: Only an insane person would believe Ukraine started the war. Trump better be talking like this as a negotiating tactic.
Could be if he is using his normal negotiating tactic of ceding all leverage and then just folding at the table. Like when he surrendered to the Taliban.
