This will be my first posting on this forum!! I would like to introduce myself.....my name is Marshal. I live in Wisco and born in '81. I have spent hours and hours using the search portion of this forum and would like to thank everyone for the loads of info on here! This will be my way of giving back and saying " Thank You". Even though there are tons of threads on 3800SC engine swaps, I wanted to do yet another one. I will include as much info as I can including part numbers, pricing, torque specs, pictures, etc. Please be patient with me while I try to figure out how to post text and pictures. I promise this will not be a 2 year project, but like everyone else in the world, I am extremely busy. Any questions or comments are appreciated. There really is no wrong way or right way to do this swap. I just want to share some of my thoughts and bring together others great ideas into one thread. Perhaps I can help some that are thinking about doing this swap or are in the process of. Here is my build thread..........
My story starts out long ago........When I was a kid, my grand parents took me on my first plane ride. We flew to North Carolina to visit my uncle who was a marine and lived on base camp. He worked on these giant helicopters and I got a short tour where he worked. All the details are a little fuzzy to me. I remember seeing the ocean for the first time and trying to swim, weird, no one else is swimming? Life lesson: Atlantic Ocean is cold in the spring time. I remember the tobacco fields just starting to grow. I would guess my age to be 12ish? I was old enough to explore on my own but too young to really know much about cars. With a terrible memory there is one thing I took away from that trip: my uncle had a COOL car!! In his garage was a small little sports car. It only had 2 seats. The engine was in the back of the car. The headlights flipped up when turned on. There was speakers in the headrests! My first encounter with a Fiero. His was a notchback. That little car has stuck with me ever since. I think he had several Fiero's over the years. It's odd the kind of cars a person falls in love with depending on how they grew up. As an 80's kid of course I loved the third gen IROC. I can appreciate most all cars, but something about that Fiero really impacted me. One day,......I will own one!
MrFred8 in Yorktown.....good eye to see the license plates. Both cars look almost identical besides the shifters. It was great to meet you and I appreciate your outgoing personality to talk with me and my wife: a couple of newbies! Should I really do an engine swap on an '88 yellow GT when only 241 were made? Power lumbar?? What is that option?.....1 of 31. Approx. 55% with the 5speed. 1 of 16? I have not been able to break it down any further than that. Sunroof, spoiler, high performance sound option. How many of these yellow cars are still in existence after 26 years? 88 database guy claims "it is one of few". With only 32k miles on it, some on this forum might be upset. This yellow car will have its own thread in its own time. It was entered in the "stock" class at the Dells show with original wheels, no CD player, '88 plain silver center caps, etc. Yes, yes the tires are not original but still Goodyear Eagle's, and the battery is different but still a 75 series side post. I had lots of fun @ Chula Vista! Some of the water slides were little scary but we survived. It was great meeting other Fiero owners and I completely understand your opinion of a "tight knit community"! Marshal
I started young: buying, fixing, selling cars. When I just turned 15 my stepdad had a lead on a '88 Grand Am coupe. Florida car-no rust. 2.5 duke blown up. My rents flipped the bill thinking this would be my first car when I "earned" my driver coupon. They bought a smashed up, maroon, ugly 4door Grand Am with low miles. I helped my step dad change the engine. He was not a mechanic but great with the straight forward "nuts 'n bolts". I was merely a helper. Put wood on the fire, grab this wrench, find this extension, tune the radio. I was constantly accused of "loosing" his tools, or "leaving" them out in the rain (which I appreciate as an adult). I don't think I learned a lot about fixing cars during that project besides fractions and numbers that were printed on the hand tools he used. I was given the chance to keep the car another year and drive it when I passed the driving test OR, sell, sell, sell! My for sale signs were SO lame! WAS 3700...now 3500! This was before the internet and all I could do was park it out front and mow the ditch down short. The car eventually sold and I was on to my next project. My step dad also found this one: '78 Chevy reg cab, short box. Lifted. 350 with 4speed. 4X4. He called me and said: it has headers! WHAT? I had no idea? what is headers? Ended up, ALL it had was headers. I pieced together exhaust, installed a stereo, tinted the windows, and pin stripped the rear window with a heartbeat......yeah, I know, whitetrash. That's what we did in Seymour circa 1996. I headed up that project and also sold it on my own. The next car was my daily driver when I was old enough to drive: 1982 Chevy S10 reg cab short box 2 wheel drive. 350/TH350. Hurst ratchet shifter on the floor. It came with a 305....ran "hot" I told them. That engine expired within 3 days. KIDS!! I took my drivers test in an 85ish Cavalier convertible. My mom's car, drove it to Green Bay and of course I passed. While my S10 got new Edelbrock intake, carb, chrome valve covers, etc.... I got to drive the "farm truck: '76 Ford F150 reg cab long box. Granny geared 4speed, straight six 300(which I eventually blew up(KIDS!!))I called it the "calico kitty". 3 different colors, duh. As I got more and more interested in cars, I still thought back to the one that stole my heart,....the Fiero. As our household grew with the changes (aka my mother went back to college to further her education), we got a computer. I spent my free time searching AOL. Fieros and V8 S10's. I found a guy in northern Illinois putting V8's in Fieros!!! WOW. He had put a couple of these together and was now selling kits. I thought I had the coolest truck with a V8 but if only I could afford a Fiero with a V8. It was clear that I needed to flip a lot more cars to work up to my dream machine.
Lets fast forward to modern day. Last summer I decided I was at a point in my life where I could afford an extra "play" car. Hmm....what should I buy? I started searching the old interweb on craigslist, backpage, ebay, etc. I knew that I wanted an '88 GT 5speed with gray interior. I also knew I wanted to do an engine swap and I didn't want a carburetor or distributor to mess with. I don't think an LS* V8 is in the budget. L67 3800SC would be a perfect fit for me. Easy to work on, readily available parts, upgrade performance options, dependable, reliable, long lasting, more fuel efficient than a V8, affordable, I could go on and on. Now I just need to find the perfect candidate. Ends up a '88 GT 5speed is a little harder to find than I thought, at least in my area for the right price. I didn't want a $15k car off of ebay that belongs in a museum, and I also did not want a HUGE project car that might take a lifetime to restore. I soon found one on ebay located in Oshkosh. It fit my criteria and white in color. I sent emails and emails to the seller with no response. There is no way I am going to buy a car that I never test drove let alone never saw in person. After staring at the few pictures of the car, I saw a license plate in the background. It's a long shot but maybe worth a try. I put the license plate number into TriVIN and got an address. It was an Oshkosh address and maybe, just maybe, it could be the neighbor of the Fiero for sale. I took the trip to Oshvegas via Droid Navigation. To my surprise there was the car! I looked at the car with huge disappointment. I needed a lot of work. I figured while I was there I should try to talk to the owner. The house looked abandoned or maybe someone was moving out or someone died? While searching for someone at home, BOOM, there was another '88 GT black in color on the other side of the house. The black one was a little nicer but still pretty rough. I might be interested in a package deal. Hmm. I sent emails and emails: nothing. The white car sold for over $1,000! I felt bad for the unsuspecting buyer. I guess I will keep looking.
I decided that I should expand my search beyond state lines. Craigslist Detroit showed my car. It was already nearing the end of summer. The post was listed 3 weeks prior and had not been reposted. Maybe the owner did not want to store it for the winter? The first thing I noticed was the gray wheels; they should be black but the valve stem was between the "points" of the spokes, weird? Also, the exterior molding that wraps around the car was red along with the door handles, mirrors, and rear decklid grilles. It must have been repainted. It had higher miles at 131k but it was in my price range under $5k. I called the number and left a message and also emailed the owner. He responded with an email and answered all my questions. 4 owners all of which were mechanical engineers. I'm not trying to profile but I'm thinking this car was well cared for. I ran the AutoCheck and 2 accidents showed up, both very early in 20,000 mile range. It came from GA and moved up to MI. I asked the owner to send me some more pictures specifically under carpet trunk areas and underneath the car. He just got a new iPhone and would "try" to figure it out. A few days later my phone explodes with emails. He must of sent 30 or more pictures! Everything looked great and he came down in price. I labored and labored over the car. Should I buy it, should I save my money for something else, should I drive there with a friend and look at it, should I bring a trailer to bring it home, should I trick my wife into a "vacation"? So a beautiful Saturday morning, I went to work to finish some paperwork and started looking at rates for the boat ride over Lake Michigan. There is 2 different boats in different locations. My father-in-law walks in and asks what I am doing. I explain the situation that he has already heard and he responds: "What's your problem? Fly there, buy the car, and bring it back. This isn't that difficult!" I guess I just needed a little push. I checked Appleton airport flights online. Appleton to Detroit leaves in 90 minutes and costs over $600! I called the owner in Detroit and explained my plan. He agreed to pick me up at the airport and split the flight cost with me. NICE GUY!! I ran home, packed a bag, and my father-in-law gave me a ride to the airport. As I was walking into the airport I got a call about another Fiero "fixer upper" but it was too late with my ticket in hand. I called my wife before I got on the plane and gave her a heads up about my weekend plans. I think she was riding her horse or on vacation or something. LONG story short. I bought the car, drove to Michigan City, Indiana, partied all night and drove home in the morning. I found out 1/8 tank means empty as I rolled into a gas station. I finally did it!!! I own a Fiero!!! Now it's time for some pictures......this could get interesting.....
[This message has been edited by AutoMarshal (edited 06-07-2014).]
I am very happy with this red car. It has been tastefully modified in my opinion. Pioneer CD player. Cerwin-Vega speakers. K&N air filter. Hypertech t-stat and performance chip. (I don't think the chip does anything) Short throw shifter. Ram air side scoop. Brighter headlights. Aftermarket exhaust. After I struck a deal and did the hand shake, I was given a giant plastic bin filled with every receipt for oil changes, car washes, and upgrades since it was new. I got the original stereo and headlights, the owners manual and repair manual. It seems as though all the suspension has been replaced several times. The exhaust had a nice "rumble" to it. The 7 pictures I took were for the state of Wisconsin collector plates. I used the floor mats to cover up the MSD ignition system in the trunk. Everything works on the car. The power windows are a little slow and the locks need the button hit a couple times. The only thing I did to the car after these pictures was having the "purple" window tint from long ago removed and retinted with 5%. Yes, tint this dark is illegal here but, everyone knows the sun is bad for people. It causes cancer and wrinkles! Just get a dermatologist to write you a script for window tint. BOOM. LEGAL. I am not a huge fan of the black plastic quarter "non" windows. I also fell in love with the '88 GT because of the black exterior molding and wheels. I drove this red car everyday for the remainder of the summer of 2013. I second guessed myself with the engine swap because it was such a nice car! But, it has already been modified with the paint and wheels. It has higher mileage and shows a couple accidents. AND.... I bought this dream car of mine to DO an engine swap. I apologize to the purist out there, but this is destiny.
Here is some 1988 production numbers. My red car was the most produced color. This car also has gray leather with a small tear on the drivers seat near the recline handle on the seam. I like the leather seats over the cloth because it is much easier to "slide" into. These numbers came from another member......THANK YOU! I love this forum!
.............................Grey Leather..Tan Leather.....Grey Lumbar...Tan Lumbar......Grey Cloth....Tan Cloth 1424 Black GTs = .........175 .............100.................114..................65..................618 .............352 1525 White GTs =..........185..............110.................120..................71..................653..............386 2607 Red GTs =.............318..............186.................207................121................1121..............654 794 Med Red GTs =......100 ...............54..................65...................35..................350..............190 257 Silver GTs = ............50 ............... 0...................32....................0..................175.................0 241 Yellow GTs =............47................0...................30....................0...................164................0
As far as numbers made they made 241 Yellow GT's total (BUT 1166 total in yellow this is Base Coupes, Formulas and GT's) Total made for the USA 1146 yellow (Coupe, Formula GT) Total made for Canada 20 yellow (Coupe, Formula GT) ----------------------------------------------- TOTAL 1166 (Coupe Formula GT)
Only 861 GTs received the Lumbar Seat option (no other 1988 model had Lumbar seats) out of total 6849 GT made in 1988
Marshall, welcome to our little niche of the world. If you've been lurking for a while, you know that this is probably the best bunch of car people on the planet.
Learn how to use PIP. It will be your friend and it will be ours. The pictures will stay with the thread as long as the forum is here. It's so frustrating to do a search, find a thread that relates to your subject matter than find broken links because the pictures are hosted on some other site, having dropped off after a pre-prescribed time limit. Pictures posted here through PIP allows us to read the text associated with it and not have to bounce back and forth between the forum and a link.
Sounds like you are pretty detail oriented and I, for one, look forward to seeing your endeavors.
I priced out engines from some of the local salvage yards and they were about $300-$400. But that is just the engine. I figured the wire harness and pcm would be another $100. The alternator, starter, and A/C compressor another $100. So I decided that buying a whole car might be a better deal. The best donor car is '99-'03 GTP because it has the correct oil filter housing, the correct supercharger tensioner assembly, and the correct engine coolant temp sensor. The best bang for your buck performance upgrade is a SC pulley. After looking at the ZZP website, they recommend the 3.4 pulley be installed on '97-'00 and the 3.5 pulley be installed on the '01-'03. So that narrows down my search to either a '99 or 2000 GTP. I thought these cars would be everywhere and cheap......WRONG. All the ones I found on craigslist were over $2k with over 200k miles. I started looking at IAAI. I found some but they were too smashed up to start. I definitely want to be able to start the car and hear it run both cold and warmed up before I buy it. A 2000 green sedan finally popped up with 131k miles. The miles are a little bit higher than what I wanted but these engines run forever if taken care of. The car was smashed in the right b-pillar but the engine sounded strong. I bid online and won the car at the top of my price range which was $650. After fees it was $860. My plan is to part the car out over the course of the winter and try to get most of my money back. Of course the big ticket item is the transmission. The first sale was the wheels with the brand new tires on it. I sold them cheap for $150 but I got his old set so my car would still be mobile. He said it was for an Impala but they kind of looked like Malibu wheels to me. I got a ton of emails, texts, and calls but no one would actually show up and buy anything. Then I got a call on the transmission. He also wanted the front clip for a different car. So that was the day the car was going inside to be stripped. I dropped the cradle, had my engine on the stand, and had the car back into a rolling chassis in 3 hours!! I impressed myself with that. Of course it is much easier when you just cut the exhaust and PS lines. The kid showed up in a short box Ranger filled with GIANT monster truck tires that were completely bald. He said he didn't have enough money for the front clip because some guy in Green Bay didn't buy his junk tires. He was an idiot! I sold him the trans for $340. But now I'm stuck with a car that doesn't move on its own power the week of Christmas and it is snowing everyday. I couldn't push it outside or it would be buried under snow until spring time. I couldn't leave it in the shop tying up a hoist. I called Gibson's Iron/Metal and they said they would pick it up and give me $50. That's not happening. The next day I got a call from a guy looking for a front clip. I told him $150 but he has to take the whole car. Well, he jumped all over that. Heated power leather seats, HUD, CD player and he can scrap it when he's done. So I am into by engine for $220. I gave the cat converter to my wife to sell. She probably bought herself a new pair of shoes and an outfit for her dog or something. The parts I saved from the car: engine, harness, pcm, exhaust with downpipe/flange, flywheel, starter, alternator, compressor, all the pulleys, etc. The parts that I was not smart enough to save: cruise control module with cable and pigtail, A/C line that has the high pressure sensor on it. Pictures speak a thousand words......
Now that I have the car and the engine, I need to slowww downnn. 4 months of winter is going to suck thinking about driving this thing! I am on somewhat of a budget and I need to keep in mind "this is the first engine going into my car, probably not the last". Of course a smaller SC pulley is going on but what else? These 90* V6 engines seem to warp a little bit due to heat. If I take off the heads I would need to resurface them, and if I do that then I should deck the block, and if I do that I should.....etc. If its worth doing, its worth doing right; my plan is to leave everything stock in hopes of easier drivability diagnosis. I took it out of a running car and should expect something similar. Don't worry, the back up engine will have a cam, rockers, etc. The cost of porting and polishing heads, intake, and SC just plain out weigh the performance gains in my opinion. Of course in my area LIM leaks are notorious due to the expansion and contraction of steel vs aluminum and differing weather temperatures, so all new gaskets will go on. Now comes the part where I claimed "there is no right way or wrong way". This part can be a little controversial, so I will just explain what I did and why. Please use the search tool on this forum to decide what you want to do at least that's what I tried to do, thanks PFF members. EGR delete- why: cleaner look. EGR lowers engine temps and is beneficial but I want to go the other way with zero power gains. BBV solenoid delete- why: does it even work? Do I really want my pcm to decide when I can have boost and not? No. But the BBV vac valve itself I am keeping and also leaving it functional. Some like to delete it for a cleaner look and run an extra bolt to hold the valve for full boost all the time. Purge- I have no idea how this will work without a vent valve or a FTP sensor. If someone could accurately explain how they program the pcm do this I might change my mind. Paint- I hate the idea of it. I don't want to make my car look like those little plastic models I put together as a kid, but this is going to be a longgg winter. There is more decisions to be made which I still feel "there is no right way or wrong way". You can go as cheap as you want, or spend as much money and time as you want. Again "this is the first engine going into my car, probably not the last".
On the 2.8, ported throttle body vacuum was used to purge the charcoal canister. Since this was ported vacuum the canister was only purged when the throttle was open more than maybe 5%. At closed throttle the port did not produce vacuum.
You wouldn't want the purge function to be active during idle.
On the 3800 the PCM is programmed to do about the same function. At idle the purge solenoid will be closed. While cruising down the road the ECM will command the purge solenoid to be open and the canister will be purged of the stored vapors.
On the 2.8, ported throttle body vacuum was used to purge the charcoal canister. Since this was ported vacuum the canister was only purged when the throttle was open more than maybe 5%. At closed throttle the port did not produce vacuum.
You wouldn't want the purge function to be active during idle.
On the 3800 the PCM is programmed to do about the same function. At idle the purge solenoid will be closed. While cruising down the road the ECM will command the purge solenoid to be open and the canister will be purged of the stored vapors.
Well that figures!! Only Timm would still be up this late and call me out! (I knew that was coming.) I respect your opinion/knowledge GREATLY!!! You might just hate how I have it run right now then. I guess I should have asked when I was plotting and scheming this problem in my head. So the pcm is programmed to do "about" the same function? I will take you word for it. I am not a professional custom pcm tuner/burner at all!! On your recommendation, I will change my setup for sure, but stayed tuned for how I have it run.......we might all have a big laugh! (It seemed ok in my head, but very different from anything else I have seen.) I am certainly glad someone has chimed in on this thread. For a second, I thought I was doing something wrong with the posting......no questions, no thoughts, no comments.....am I in the wrong section? should I be in general chat? anyone? *crickets* Thanks Timm and everyone else who has posted. I have heard this is the greatest bunch of car guys and gals on the planet.....have we all stopped learning and discussing? I am not trying to turn this into a back and forth: who is smarter. SO....is "there a right way or wrong way"??? There will be a lot more decisions on this build to make!
The vent solenoid and tank pressure sensor are used to test the system and make sure there are no other openings to atmosphere. That is why you get a MIL light when you leave the gas cap off. Your PCM will need to be programmed to eliminate the evap test procedure.
Only California requires these to be added to the Fiero fuel tank when swapping a newer engine in.
VENT: The evaporative canister vent valve not only allows the fresh outside air to the EVAP canister during the purge modes, but also allows the diagnostic to pull a vacuum on the fuel tank by closing the vent valve. This valve is normally open.
FTP: The fuel tank pressure (FTP) sensor measures the differences between the air pressure, or vacuum, in the fuel tank and the outside air pressure.The sensor mounts at the top of the fuel tank sending unit. The PCM supplies a 5 Volt reference voltage and ground to the sensor. The sensor provides a signal voltage between 0.1-4.9 Volts to the PCM. When the air pressure in the fuel tank is equal to the outside air pressure, such as when the fuel fill cap is removed, the output voltage of the sensor will measure 1.3-1.7 Volts. When the air pressure in the tank is 1.25 kPa (4.5 inches Hg), the sensor output voltage should measure 1.25 kPa (14 inches of Hg)
NORMAL 3800 OPERATION: The Evaporative Emission (EVAP) control system limits the fuel vapors from escaping into the atmosphere. The EVAP transfers the fuel vapors from the sealed fuel tank to an activated carbon (charcoal) storage device (EVAP canister). The EVAP canister stores the vapors until the engine is able to use the extra fuel vapor. When the engine is able to use the extra fuel vapor, the intake air flow purges the fuel vapor from the carbon element and then the normal combustion process consumes the fuel vapor. The system is required in order to detect the evaporative fuel system leaks as small as 0.040 inches between the fuel filler cap and the EVAP canister purge valve. The system can test the evaporative system integrity by applying a vacuum signal (ported or manifold) to the fuel tank in order to create a small vacuum.
The PCM then monitors the ability of the system to maintain the vacuum. If the vacuum remains for a specified period of time, then there are no evaporative leaks, and a PASS is reported by the PCM. If there is a leak, the system either will not achieve a vacuum, or a vacuum cannot be maintained. Usually a fault can only be detected after a cold start with a trip of sufficient length and driving conditions to run the needed tests. The enhanced evaporative system diagnostic conducts sub-tests in order to detect the fault conditions. If the diagnostic fails a sub-test, the PCM stores a Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) in order to indicate the type of fault detected.
The EVAP diagnostic tests include the following tests: -Weak Vacuum Test: This tests for large leaks and blockages in the EVAP system. The FTP sensor detects low fuel tank pressure resulting from a large vacuum leak or a restriction in the vacuum supply to the fuel tank. The FTP sensor value should increase over a period of time. If the PCM does not detect in increase, a malfunction is indicated by setting DTC P0440. -Weak Vacuum Follow-up Test: This tests the EVAP system after the Weak Vacuum Test has failed. The FTP sensor looks for high tank vacuum over a period of time. If this occurs, the Weak Vacuum Test will Pass. If Weak Vacuum does not pass, the test continues through this ignition cycle. -Vacuum Decay Test: This tests for small leaks in the EVAP system. The decay rate is determined by measuring the change in fuel tank pressure (vacuum) over a period of time. If the decay rate is greater than a calibrated value, than another vacuum decay test will be initiated. If vacuum decay is still greater than a calibrated value, a malfunction is indicated by setting DTC P0442. -Fuel Vapor Build Pressure Test: This test is used to determine the vacuum leak size. When the vacuum has decayed to near zero, the PCM subtracts measured slope from the vacuum decay to calculate to predict leak size. If the calculation indicates that a leak is present, the small leak test will fail. -Canister Vent Restriction Test: This tests for a restriction in the EVAP vent system. The FTP sensor looks for sufficient vacuum from the engine intake manifold. After a period of time and conditions have been met, then this test will pass. If the vacuum value is to high, a malfunction is indicated by setting a DTC P0446. -Purge Valve Leak Test: This tests for small leaks to the intake manifold. This is accomplished by sealing the EVAP system purge valve and vent valve, and allowing the PCM to monitor the FTP sensor. The FTP sensor value should not increase. If the PCM detects an increase, a malfunction is indicated by setting DTC P1441.
BUT...???? PURGE: When energized, the evaporative canister purge valve allows the fuel vapor to flow from the EVAP canister to the engine. The normally closed valve is pulse width modulated by the PCM in order to precisely control the vapor flow. The valve opens during the Enhanced Evaporative Diagnostic Test in order to create a vacuum in the fuel tank and then closed in order to seal the system.
How do you program this into a custom Fiero 3800SC pcm without the extra sensors and self tests? Do you have a schematic so I better understand? I was just thinking old school with ported vac before the buttefly to open the Fiero "purge" (which is lower portion of upper valve on top of canister) and releasing pressure if present (upper port on "purge" on top of Fiero canister) into constant vac. on tree atop of SC. Or would this pull too much of a vacuum on the fuel system and decrease fuel economy? Easy on me now.....I owned a Fiero less than a year and I'm still learning about this swap.
Dont ever take the heads off a 3800 unless you absolutely have to. You can mod the heck out of the stock headgaskets.. Ive made over 700hp on stock head bolts/gaskets.
Go cheap on everything the first time around. You are not going to get a less reliable or less quality car because of it.
Welcome to the forum's! The story you wrote was actually pretty entertaining, the fact you actually grew up in the 80's and happened to have an uncle with a fiero proves that it was destiny for you to own one. I am very interested in seeing how your 3800SC swap goes, good luck and once again, welcome.
Thanks for you input Phonedawgs. I have seen a lot of smoke come out of a pcm once. After all the smoke cleared out of the brain box, it did not work any more. I have yet to find a vendor that sells this "magic smoke" and a way to inject it back into a pcm to make it work again. All joking aside, I honestly do not know anything about custom programming a 3800 pcm to go into a Fiero. So the purge sporadically turns on while driving? or does it purge all the time but just not at idle? I know you can command it on with a scanner and feel if it is vibrating to test it, but I can't image the how long it would last if always running off of idle. When does the pcm command it on and why? What does the pcm see in order to purge it? Or do you have said "magic smoke" source near the Red Devil River (which is where?)? ----- I really hope you can joke with me a little, it has been a long week of non stop moped business and I enjoy having a drink after work ----- I basically have it setup like you mentioned before: constant vac hose from tree on top of SC to port on top of canister. Lower port on canister I have a hose running down to air filter area. In theory: the system is sealed when the car is off. When the engine is running, the evap system is opened (even at idle) and allowed to purge. Any fuel vapors would be release next to my air filter. (no smell) At least in my head it works. I will eventually post pictures. I think an operating EVAP system is a low priority during a 3800SC swap. If anyone else would like to chime in here about EVAP stuff, please feel free.....anyone? is this thing on? Bueller? I can't believe I haven't heard: "just leave all the evap stuff open, or just plugged it all up, or just rip that charcoal canister out and throw it way." All of which would most likely be good answers.
[This message has been edited by AutoMarshal (edited 06-12-2014).]
Dont ever take the heads off a 3800 unless you absolutely have to. You can mod the heck out of the stock headgaskets.. Ive made over 700hp on stock head bolts/gaskets.
Go cheap on everything the first time around. You are not going to get a less reliable or less quality car because of it.
Thanks for showing up Mr. Horizon. 700HP...WOW! The stock Fiero 2.8 is 140hp and a stock 3.8sc is 240hp. I am hoping with a 3.4 pulley and free flowing intake and exhaust to be double stock hp of the original engine. I forgot to mention that I want to build a daily driver. Not just the name DD but actually drive it everyday and feel confident to go on long road trips. I think I would feel just as confident if not more to drive my red car across the country than the stock yellow one. I like your thinking about going cheap the "first" time around! Please freely comment on this thread as I am sure I made some mistakes but need them pointed out to me.
Akghandi, PaulJK, 86soon3.4, phonedawgz, mrfred8, 84fiero123, bomluuk, 92wastheyear, fierofool, darkhorizon, zzzhuh: thank you for taking your time to read my boring build thread and thank you for the warm welcome! I am no longer a "junior member"!! "I'm a real boy!!"
Originally posted by AutoMarshal: Thanks for showing up Mr. Horizon. 700HP...WOW! The stock Fiero 2.8 is 140hp and a stock 3.8sc is 240hp. I am hoping with a 3.4 pulley and free flowing intake and exhaust to be double stock hp of the original engine. I forgot to mention that I want to build a daily driver. Not just the name DD but actually drive it everyday and feel confident to go on long road trips. I think I would feel just as confident if not more to drive my red car across the country than the stock yellow one. I like your thinking about going cheap the "first" time around! Please freely comment on this thread as I am sure I made some mistakes but need them pointed out to me.
I have a 3800 Series II SC engine with a 3.4 pulley and a stock Getrag 282 transmission. This dynoed at 258 HP and 300 ft lbs of torque at the wheels with a decent exhaust and conservative tune so your goal is achievable.
More 3800SC decisions: power steering pump: keep it and run hydraulic lines up to a swapped rack? Run a swapped electric power steering setup? delete the pump all together? I prefer strong arming my parking lot maneuvers. This now opens up a spot for a low mount alternator. Alternator: leave it in the stock location? I would like to keep things simple. I like simple and I bet GM spent lots of time and money in research and development on their alt. bracket. If you have a notchback, I would keep the factory alt. mount unless you like the cleaner look of it moved somewhere else. If you have a fastback, some modification would be needed to keep your alternator up top. Be careful, there is wires in there. I do not want to chop up/ notch my decklid, then reinforce it for strength. I will be putting my alternator where the PS pump previously was. Air conditioning compressor: keep it and stay cool in the hot summer days? delete it and have those extra horses and another possible spot for an alternator? You will not be robbed of HP because you have A/C... well, only when the compressor is running. I plan on having A/C. I want a clean look, but I also want the luxury of a daily driver with ICE COLD A/C! This build thread will delete the PS, move the alternator down low, and keep the factory air conditioning. More than likely "there is no right way or wrong way" to do this swap. Plan ahead and make these vital decisions.
More 3800SC decisions: power steering pump: keep it and run hydraulic lines up to a swapped rack? Run a swapped electric power steering setup? delete the pump all together? I prefer strong arming my parking lot maneuvers. This now opens up a spot for a low mount alternator.
Powersteering pump is the easiest part of a power steering setup... Ill just leave it at that...
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Alternator: leave it in the stock location? I would like to keep things simple. I like simple and I bet GM spent lots of time and money in research and development on their alt. bracket. If you have a notchback, I would keep the factory alt. mount unless you like the cleaner look of it moved somewhere else. If you have a fastback, some modification would be needed to keep your alternator up top. Be careful, there is wires in there. I do not want to chop up/ notch my decklid, then reinforce it for strength. I will be putting my alternator where the PS pump previously was.
Low mounting the alternator is usually a solid idea. Putting it on the back side or trans side is the best option usually.
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Air conditioning compressor: keep it and stay cool in the hot summer days? delete it and have those extra horses and another possible spot for an alternator? You will not be robbed of HP because you have A/C... well, only when the compressor is running. I plan on having A/C. I want a clean look, but I also want the luxury of a daily driver with ICE COLD A/C! This build thread will delete the PS, move the alternator down low, and keep the factory air conditioning. More than likely "there is no right way or wrong way" to do this swap. Plan ahead and make these vital decisions.
AC is a bit tricky, but any money you put into making it work will probably pay you back if you ever go to sell it. I dont see a need for AC but its a sweet option.
